Baptism?

[justjake]

Please notice in Acts 22 that Saul (later to be known as the Apostle Paul who wrote 1/3 of the New Testament) believed and had confessed Jesus as Lord three days before he was baptized.  And when he was baptized it was not as a mere 'sign' or 'expression' of what had been done already.

It was to wash away his sins! (v. 16)

Why is it so hard for people to accept baptism as part of the Gospel? 

Why is it that submitting to the commandments of God is met with such opposition?

The verse in Acts does not state that baptism washed away Paul's sins. It actually states:

" And now why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. " Acts 22:16.

The baptism was a baptism unto repentance. Not unto salvation. Continuing in the verse, it say's.. calling on the name of the Lord.

It was the Act of calling on the name of the Lord that brought salvation. Not the baptism.

As for why its so hard for people to accept baptism as a part of the gospel. Im sure it has something to do with an understanding of the scriptures. Some choose to believe that the blood of Christ in itself is not sufficient to provide salvation, and choose to include works, etc. Whereas others have seen the light of God's Word and understand that the single source of salvation is not Christ and anything else, But Jesus Christ alone. As to why that is so, Im sure there are many reasons. Some refuse to give up doctrinal stances, for whatever personal reasons they may have. Some are just wrong in their understanding of the scriptures. But in either case we are to hold to God's Word, not to doctrines and traditions, and ask the Holy Spirit for understanding. In other cases, Im sure that understanding is not present because the individual is not saved to begin with, and does not have the Holy Spirit to discern the truth.

There is no opposition to the commands of God. But there is knowledge that the commandments cannot save anyone.

" For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: For it is written, Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them, But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for the just shall live by faith." Gal. 3: 10-11.

Remember, we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done.

Saul had already confessed Jesus as Lord and believed in his heart that Jesus is who he says he is.

That was not sufficient enough to wash away his sins.

He had to be baptized.

And the word baptize means to submerge. Strongs records it as:

Strongs # 907 baptizo: to make overwhelmed (i.e. fully wet)

Romans 6 is fully clear------baptism is HOW we are united with Christ.

[Rick]

" Hmmm... that's an interesting statement that you have made, saying that Paul was baptized for repentance, and was given forgiveness through calling on his name. Written earlier in Acts 19, Paul tells disciples who had been baptized of John's baptism to now be baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Does he not show a difference between the baptisms?"

If you would take the time to read the whole thread you might see that I already stated that there was a distinction between the Baptisms.  But I'll post it again for you,  Inquiring minds need to know. 

" Physical baptism was being performed by John before Jesus approached him. It was already instituted. Jesus did not require John to change anything in the manner in which he was previously baptizing. John distuinguished between the baptizing he was performing and the baptism that Jesus would perform. "

" As to baptism being a 'work,' if you want to get into that, then wouldn't everything be a 'work' in your definition? Do you believe that you must confess that Christ is the Son of God to be saved? (If you don't, check out Romans 10:9-10). Isn't CONFESSING just as much a work as BAPTISM? What about repentance? Isn't turning your life around to do good things just as much a work as baptism? When Paul tells the Ephesians in Ephesians 2 that works do not save us, is he saying that baptism, repentance, and confession are works, or is he saying that we cannot earn our way into heaven with good deeds. Salvation is a gift, and a gift we must accept. We don't earn it through good deeds, or "works," we accept it through Christ."

" Then they said unto Him, What shall we do , that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe." John 6: 28-29.

There is a distinction between a work of God that leads to salvation, and one that does not. The distinction I made was that baptism is not a work unto salvation. In other words, Salvation will not save you! Thats simple enough.

[Rick]

Please notice in Acts 22 that Saul (later to be known as the Apostle Paul who wrote 1/3 of the New Testament) believed and had confessed Jesus as Lord three days before he was baptized.

[justjake]

" That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:10

Maybe you should spend more time reading your Bible and less time making statements that you know nothing about.

That passage was written to already immersed Christians!!!!!!!

Why do you feel the need to make a statement that assumes that I don't read or understand the Bible?

Is that how a Christian should treat his brother in Christ?

Honestly answer that question. We are not supposed to be here to tear each other down.

Go back and read my post. You say that Romans 10:10 tells us that we only have to confess and believe, yet the writer of that same passage knew fully well that he had believed and confessed Jesus as Lord yet was still in his sins until he called upon the name of the Lord through baptism.

Go back and read Acts 22 again.

[Guest fishingpenguin]

You say that Romans 10:10 tells us that we only have to confess and believe, yet the writer of that same passage knew fully well that he had believed and confessed Jesus as Lord yet was still in his sins until he called upon the name of the Lord through baptism.

Excellent answer. If you look back earlier in Romans, chapter 6 (which has already been stated many times) has already addressed the fact that Romans was written to Christians who had already been baptized. Paul has already said that baptism was how they were actually buried with Christ so they could share in his resurrection.

Look at the first sermon ever preached after Christ's death. In Acts 2 when the people were "cut to the heart" because they crucified the Messiah, they asked what to do. "Peter replied 'Repent and be baptized, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of sins. And you shall receive the Holy Spirit.'" Without completely distorting the Word of God, how can anyone look at that and come to the conclusion that baptism is not for the forgiveness of sins?

[godrulz]

Acts 2:38 The Greek grammatical structure links forgiveness with repentance (faith), not baptism. This verse does not teach baptismal regeneration.

[justjake]

Acts 2:38 The Greek grammatical structure links forgiveness with repentance (faith), not baptism. This verse does not teach baptismal regeneration.

Just to say this with no support means nothing and adds little to the conversation.

Why it is so difficult for people to accept baptism as being one of the steps of the Gospel?

Baptism is a foundational teaching of the Gospel and the writer of Hebrews says this in 6:2.

Why is it met with such fervor to disprove submitting to Christ's commands?

[1ptr29citizen]

I agree justjake, it is odd that not many even consider most of the points you've helped give. In the end of Hebrews 5 through a little ways into chapter 6, one can see that baptism was obviously not a little thing, because baptism is listed as spiritual milk, one of the basises for Christians to know and understand. Repentance and faith are also "spiritual milks" that we must have.

Rick I believe it was you that said:

" That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:10

And not you, but it comes from the mouth of God. It MUST be true. Whoever believes and confesses Jesus as Lord will be saved, because that's exactly what this verse says. A little farther down in Romans 10, we are told calling on the name of the Lord also gives us salvation. Do we pick between belief and confession or calling on the name of the Lord? No... so why should we pick between belief and confession or baptism (which also is part of salvation according to 1 Peter 3:21)? We SHOULDN'T pick between them, we should do them all. In many instances, things required for salvation are grouped together (i.e. belief/confession in Romans 10, belief/baptism in Mark 16, baptism/calling on the name of the Lord in Acts 22, repentance/baptism in Acts 2), so what about verses that don't tell us EVERYTHING we need for salvation RIGHT THERE in that particular verse (i.e. Romans 10 says nothing about repentance)? Well, because to Christians of that time, it was understood that belief would lead you to confess, repent, and be baptized, and not everything needed to be listed. Just because that one verse doesn't mention baptism doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. 1 Peter 3:21 doesn't mention belief and confession, but I have done them for salvation just as well as baptism. :t:

Consider it my friend.

[justjake]

I agree justjake, it is odd that not many even consider most of the points you've helped give. In the end of Hebrews 5 through a little ways into chapter 6, one can see that baptism was obviously not a little thing, because baptism is listed as spiritual milk, one of the basises for Christians to know and understand. Repentance and faith are also "spiritual milks" that we must have.

An interesting point to consider is that Hebrews 6:2 points out that baptism being part of the Gospel is foundational.

So when the epistles were written, they would not go into great detail about baptism because it was understood by the receipitants that it was required.

Yet there is still clear evidence that it is. Romans 6 is clear--we are united with Christ in baptism.

Even the early church agreed that baptism was more than just a symbol (even though it is a symbol in addition to being required):

200-258 AD CYPRIAN "But if the baptism of heretics can have the regeneration of the second birth, those who are baptized among them must be counted not heretics, but children of God. For the second birth, which occurs in baptism, begets sons of God." (Cyprian, "The Epistles of Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 393)

200-258 AD CYPRIAN "For he who has been sanctified, his sins being put away in baptism, and has been spiritually re-formed into a new man, has become fitted for receiving the Holy Spirit; since the apostle says, 'As many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.' (Cyprian, "The Epistles of Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 387-388)

110-165AD Martyr "there is no other way [to obtain God's promises] than this-to become acquainted with Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins, and for the remainder, to live sinless lives." (Justin Martyr, Trypho chap. 44)

Many, many, many more quotes from the early church could be cited. If anybody is interested, click here.

But please keep in mind if you do check out the website that I don't support everything that is there.

[1ptr29citizen]

I didn't check out the website, but I would like to add a few more quotes from an early church theologian who discussed baptism in many of his writings.

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM AD 315 - AD 386 "When going down... into the water, think not of the bare element, but look for salvation by the power of the Holy Ghost." "Catechetical Lectures, III:4.

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM AD 315 - AD 386 {Written to those preparing for baptism} "Great is the Baptism that lies before you: a ransom to captives; a remission of offenses; a death of sin; a new-birth of the soul; a garment of light; a holy indissoluble seal; a chariot to heaven; the delight of Paradise; a welcome into the kingdom; the gift of adoption!" Procatechesis [Prologue], 16, page 5.

Why would the apostles and founding fathers/elders of the Church teach that baptism was for salvation if they didn't mean it? Why would we ALL OF A SUDDEN realize that baptism ISN'T for salvation in the 1500s, considering the gospel and way of salvation was given to the apostles in the very first century AD? There is no proof back then that people were saved and NOT baptized (although me and justjake have given some quotes from Christians back then showing it was supported), and I have yet to see verses to disprove that: belief, repentance, confession, baptism, and living righteously, are necessary for salvation. If God told me to build a spiritual house, and told me to build a foundation (belief), put up walls (repentance), windows for people to see inside (confession), then if I put on a roof (baptism), THEN I will have a house, wouldn't I have to do ALL of those things? That house isn't a figment of our imagination, God talks about it. The cornerstone, the very piece we build around must be Jesus (1 Peter 2:4-6), we must build the house itself, and then use it appropreiately for God (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16). That spiritual house is our bodies (which are to be living sacrafices)! How can we be living THROUGH Christ AS sacrafices if we haven't believed, repented, confess to others his name, and been resurrected WITH HIM (sacraficing ourselves into a new life according to Romans 6)?