stevehut Posted February 29, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Good going, tiggr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Feb 27 2004, 02:57 PM) Even the apostles could have been mistaken about anything they said as well. They only time their writings or teachings were infalliable was when they were writing the Scriptures under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Even Peter fell into doctrinal error according to Paul in Galatians. So, just because they were the original apostles does not give them more weight in doctrinal matters. They just as falliable as you and I. Shiloh, Very interesting reasoning here... The Bible is not necessarily true? The apostles could have been wrong? How do you determine which things are right and which were wrong? Steve if you read my above post, you will notice that I said that they ONLY time their teachings are infalliable is when they inspired by Holy Spirit to write Scriptures. Anything they said outside of what is in the Word of God does not have to be taken as infalliable. They did not become all-knowing when they became apostles. Only the Scriptures are to be considered as innerant and effectual for Christian living. Any extra-biblical writings by the apostles do not hold up to that standard are open to scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted February 29, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Shiloh, Sort of reminds me of Martin Luther. He certainly attempted to bring the Scriptures to the common folk, by producing the first Bible in the German language. This was a monumental task, and an extraordinary contribution to his countrymen, eventually the world. He even coined an expression in Latin, which became a popular catch phrase of his era: sola scriptura, or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted February 29, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Shiloh, Extrabiblical writings by the apostles? What are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile21 Posted February 29, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29, 2004 Mobile - What is your church affiliation? I'm a catholic (if you don't believe me, ask LadyC about it!!! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Shiloh, Sort of reminds me of Martin Luther. Shouldnt remind you of him; I have not made any of the assertions he did about certain books like James, etc. I am not inconsistent has he was with regard to the word of God. I believe that the Word of God is the final arbitor in spirtual matters. Your statements about Martin Luther prove my point. I have no faith in the teachings of men outside Scripture. Even if the apostles had extra-biblical teachings saying that water immersion is necessary for salvation, I would reject it because that is not what God inspired any of them to write in the Word of God. I believe with perfect faith that the book we called the Bible is wholly inspired from cover to cover. I believe that God has allowed only the books that He inspired into it. Anything else written or taught by the apostles or their students does not possess the unique quality of inspiration the Bible possesses. He has preserved it for us and continues to watch over His Word to perform it. I believe with the Pslamist, that the preserved Word of God is "as silver purified seven times." That having been said, I also do not disspel entirely the insights and illuminations that God has provided to others he has called to teach his Word. While I have gained much in the way of wisdom and understanding from such men and women, they do not hold the place of preeminence reserved for Scripture. The Word of God is complete and completely consistent. Diligent study, prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit form the spiritual workhorse for properly understanding the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebuchadnezza10 Posted February 29, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/20/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29, 2004 I agree with tiggr. If you look at acts 2:38 onwards you can quite clearly see it is a physical thing, in which we can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Salvation) (Gift of the HS is different from the GIFTS of the HS) Acts 2 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call." 40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. Also the Ethiopian Eunuch: (Not sure if this has already been mentioned.) It was physical. Acts 8 34The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus. 36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"[6] 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. Baptism is a physical act that we are commanded to do. It is symbolic if dying to sin and rising up so that we may have a new life with Christ in heaven Romans 6 Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ 1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[1] that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. How do you explain these verses with regards to baptism only being a spiritual thing. In addition, the word baptism comes from the Greek word, (baptizw)=baptizo. From a derivative of baptw - bapto ; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash. You can check this on the Strong Greek dictionary web site: http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRGRK9.htm#S907 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calamity Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Calamity, you asked about Acts 10. It's been explained several times throughout the thread, so if you want something more in depth than what I'm about to say, just look back over the thread. But here is the basic: God poured out his Holy Spirit onto the Gentiles to show Peter that God loved the Gentiles too, and wanted the Gentiles to be saved. Peter had a problem with favoring Jews, as apparent from Galatians, so God wanted to show Peter that He was willing to save the Gentiles as well as the Jews. So once the gifts of the Holy Spirit were poured upon the people at Cornelius' house, Peter then baptized them. So when the Holy Spirit was poured upon the people, and Peter then realized the Gentiles needed to be saved too, what did Peter do? He baptized them. He didn't identify them. He baptized them IN WATER. It says in water, it's straight from the last paragraph of the story. Yes, I understand the Gentile part, but what do you mean he didn't identify them? They are identified very clearly as those who HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST. They received the Holy Ghost BEFORE being baptized with water. Can a person who is not saved receive the Holy Ghost? Acts 10 [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? No matter how you look at that - they had already received the Holy Ghost before their water baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted March 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Where exactly did James, John, Jude, Matthew, Mark, and Luke express any doctrine about the meaning of baptism? Maybe I've missed it. Shiloh, Any thughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted March 1, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted March 1, 2004 But I am going by the Bible, not by the teachings of anyone else. Shiloh, But didn't you also say that the writings of the apostles (part of the Bible) are not necessarily true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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