Artemus Prime Posted February 19, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1981 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 I agree whole-heartedly with one of the main points of the book; namely, that we must learn to read the Bible in paragraphs, rather than the "Book-Chapter-Verse" mentality that has become so popular. In this way, we are basically (in that sense) forced to keep Scripture in its proper context, rather than "pulling" a single verse out to use to boost one's viewpoint or argument... This is one of my biggest challenges in studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treasure Posted February 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 272 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,338 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2008 I started reading it again and from the beginning. I suppose when I tried before that it just wasn't the time because once I started it again, I had to force myself to put it down. I don't necessarily have questions to this point but there are many things that I'd like to mention. Since it would take too long to type them all out, I'll just share a few of them for now. - I don't think of myself as an exegete and am certainly no expert but I am very hungry and exegesis is a passion. I don't want to simply read the Bible as "black words on white paper" and I don't want to know only what God is speaking to me personally but what His message is universally within the text. Like on page 19 the last paragraph where it talks about learning "the original intent of the words of the Bible". - As many times as I've compared translations, there are things that are impossible to understand without knowing the history, environment, literary content, etc. that aren't clearly defined by any one translation. For example, the part about the "needle's eye" on page 21. Without knowing the history, how would someone know that? Going back to read more now. Looking forward to discussing this again soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Prime Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1981 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I started reading it again and from the beginning. I suppose when I tried before that it just wasn't the time because once I started it again, I had to force myself to put it down. I don't necessarily have questions to this point but there are many things that I'd like to mention. Since it would take too long to type them all out, I'll just share a few of them for now. - I don't think of myself as an exegete and am certainly no expert but I am very hungry and exegesis is a passion. I don't want to simply read the Bible as "black words on white paper" and I don't want to know only what God is speaking to me personally but what His message is universally within the text. Like on page 19 the last paragraph where it talks about learning "the original intent of the words of the Bible". - As many times as I've compared translations, there are things that are impossible to understand without knowing the history, environment, literary content, etc. that aren't clearly defined by any one translation. For example, the part about the "needle's eye" on page 21. Without knowing the history, how would someone know that? Going back to read more now. Looking forward to discussing this again soon. Agreed....I think one of the points that sticks out in my mind the most (other than the underlying thought that the Scriptures can never mean what they never meant) is the following, from Third Edition, Chapter 1, page 20: "....One of the current rages among American Protestants, especially charismatics, is the so-called wealth-and-health gospel. The "good news" is that God's will for you is financial and material prosperity! One of the advocates of this "gospel" begins his book by arguing for the "plain sense" of Scripture and claiming that he puts the Word of God first and foremost throughout his study. He says that it is not what we think it says but what it actually says that counts. The "plain meaning" is what he is after. But one begins to wonder what the "plain meaning" really is when financial prosperity is argued as the will of God from such a text as 3 John 2, "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth" (KJV)--a text that in fact has nothing at all to do with financial prosperity." With so much talk about the "Prosperity Gospel" these days, and even with it being featured prominently in the media (at least here in my area), I just thought this was an excellent point to be made...that's part of the reason why it's so vital to keep Scripture in its proper context! Hope you're still enjoying the read...looking forward to "hearing" from you soon! Blessings, A.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Artemeis.... Excellent post.. When I explain to people that when I read the word...I am doing just that. I am not wondering what chapter or verse I am at. I many times had looked at the separations as inadequate. When I got such a revelation of the great "I AM" It took me to areas of understanding where the word is concerned in reading it. Although He is the First and the Last His statement of "I AM" I began to see him at present tense at all times as well as His word. I will buy this book. Although I have many; when i see excitement in one's spirit like yours I credit it to The Holy Spirit and a must read for me!! thank-you so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Prime Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1981 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Artemeis.... Excellent post.. When I explain to people that when I read the word...I am doing just that. I am not wondering what chapter or verse I am at. I many times had looked at the separations as inadequate. When I got such a revelation of the great "I AM" It took me to areas of understanding where the word is concerned in reading it. Although He is the First and the Last His statement of "I AM" I began to see him at present tense at all times as well as His word. I will buy this book. Although I have many; when i see excitement in one's spirit like yours I credit it to The Holy Spirit and a must read for me!! thank-you so much Oh, no thanks are necessary...I'm just trying my best to get the word out (no pun intended!)...there should be an integration, rather than a separation, of faith and reason...the two CAN co-exist lol... I hope this book helps you as much as it has me! Let me know what you think of it, if ever you get the chance to pick it up! A.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted February 21, 2008 They certainly can co-exist.. some I think somehow lose part of reason when they get saved and not anything to do with their Salvation either. Some become so engrossed in the spiritual and logos they are no earthly good to anyone....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Prime Posted February 21, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1981 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 They certainly can co-exist.. some I think somehow lose part of reason when they get saved and not anything to do with their Salvation either. Some become so engrossed in the spiritual and logos they are no earthly good to anyone....lol Agreed, especially since I have personally witnessed it!...balance is achievable, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treasure Posted February 23, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 272 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,338 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2008 I've been having computer issues the last few days and haven't been able to post. Since I've been reading this book and coming to understand the differences in translations, I now have a new notebook, my huge Strong's concordance, two commentaries, a Bible dictionary and probably six translations spread out all over my dining room table It's a good thing atm that I don't cook often I know we're not really talking about translations in this thread but I would like to note that one of the translations that I hadn't really read at all but have a copy of is the Scoffield. Does anyone know about this translation? Just want to see if anyone sees the same thing I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Prime Posted February 25, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 462 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1981 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 I don't know all that much about it, sadly...the ones I use most often are the NIV for overall personal reading/"quiet time"; when I'm doing straight-up Bible Study, I use my NIV, along with a NASB (New American Standard) because it stays so close to the original languages (especially Greek), my Greek NT, and the RSV (Revised Standard Version)...it's good to see you back! Talk again soon...A.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treasure Posted February 26, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 272 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,338 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2008 I found this fascinating from page 21, In Mark 10:23, at the comclusion of the story of the rich young man, Jesus says, "How hard is it for the rich to enter the kingdom of God." He then adds: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom." It is often said that there was a gate in Jerusalem known as they "Needle's Eye," which camels could go through only by kneeling, and with great difficulty. The point of this "interpretation" is that a camel could in fact go through the "Needle's Eye." The trouble with this "exegesis," however, si that it is simply not true. There never was such a gate in Jerusalem at any time in its history. The earliest known "evidence" for that idea is found in the eleventh century in a commentary by a Greek churchman named Theophylact, who had the same difficulty with the text that we do. I wonder now how many times I've read that verse and had no clue about any of this. I'm learning to read text carefully and to not simply ask questions but ask the right questions. The problem with this is that my reading list is growing long and longer. How worthywhile would it be for me to purchase the books recommended in this book Mortimer J. Adler's How to Read a Book, International Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, Eerdman's Handbook to the Bible. Any or all of these and more? On page 43 this book calls the AMP a translation that has "had a run of popularity far beyond its worth." This has been my preferred translation for the last several years. It was almost disheartening for me to read this but I quickly recovered. Now I'm sinking my teeth into Scripture from a different perspective and fresh energy. In fact I got a new "toy" today in the mail. My newest commentary came today and after reading some in the book I devoured 1 Corinthians (in the NIV) and then read in my new commentary. I'm like a kid in a candy store. Until next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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