Guest Joshua Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 The Church that I am in always has an altar call after the preach in order to give people the opportunity to make a decision there and then....many do....and sadly many are never seen again. Certainly. That's the inherent danger. And that's the reason why my church will never do one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 16, 2004 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 532 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/03/2001 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1972 Share Posted May 16, 2004 But is the "inherent danger" of an altar call in that people will never come back, never return again, or is the "inherent danger" the fact that the church is scared to have to disciple new believers? Because in my mind, that's something sorely lacking in today's church and has contributed to some of the problems in the church and Christianity in general (Benny Hinn comes to mind... :x:) People in ministry speak under "the unction of the Spirit" and no one has truly been rooted and grounded enough in the faith to say "wait a second, no, this is not truth" and are being misled left and right. So what really is the "inherent danger" in an altar call...even though that's not what this thread is about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted May 16, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted May 16, 2004 An altar is a point of contact with God and man. It should not become a technique or formula. Agreed. Did you look up the stuff I mentioned? Could you point me to the sources (website?). I am sure I will not agree with every detail about Finney's ministry. I know he has been misrepresented at times. There are sites that refute some of the criticisms by putting his teaching in its original context. I am most interested in the accuracy of his teachings rather than his cultural adaptations in conducting meetings (though practice flows from belief). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshua Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 But is the "inherent danger" of an altar call in that people will never come back, never return again, or is the "inherent danger" the fact that the church is scared to have to disciple new believers? Both of those things are certainly hazards, but that's not exactly what I was thinking. My concern is much simpler: People are being asked to make a very important decision, impulsively, based upon an emotional experience. In my mind, "discipling" is something that is done with a person who is already converted. But maybe that's just a semantic thing on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joshua Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Could you point me to the sources (website?). I am sure I will not agree with every detail about Finney's ministry. I know he has been misrepresented at times. http://www.restorationquarterly.org/Volume...501olbricht.htm This is one site among many, I just happened to have it handy on my computer. There are others, and I think this kind of thing should be required reading for any new Christian. Many people tend to think that instant conversion has it origins in great antiquity. But they are greatly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A Stone Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I think baptism is an outward showing to the world where you stand. The baptism symbolizes going into death and coming out a 'new man', leaving the 'old man' behind. The early believers where baptized before the death and resurrection of Jesus, so we know that the act had significant meaning. In baptisim you have proclaimed to the powers and principalities of your belief in the Son of God (Jesus), acknowledging that He is the prophesied messiah and that you intend to live your 'new' life in the Lord's will. It's kind of like getting married. Sure, if you love someone, your marriage can simply be before God without a civil ceremony. But when you proclaim it before witnesses and the world, it takes on a completely deeper meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted May 18, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I think baptism is an outward showing to the world where you stand. Does the Bible say that somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A Stone Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I think baptism is an outward showing to the world where you stand. Does the Bible say that somewhere? I'm not sure. I think though, that there are many thoughts, not specifically stated, in the Bible, but by their inferences, we are able to come to practical conclusions; and within our spirit and being before the Lord, can be confident and with a clear conscience, express them. I feel that sometimes when we are reading the Bible, the Lord gives us revelations. I have had those from time to time. But then after time passes, I might say to myself, "Now, where did I find that"? Try to go back into the Word and find the verses, but can't find them. My spouse says that the Bible says, "Ye need not that any man teach you, for you have the leading of the Holy Spirit". You cannot find a verse that has those words. BUT, there is that understanding if you read the Bible carefully. I believe the Lord gave that revelation to my spouse. I have always said this: As you grow and mature in the Lord, certain verses will take on a deeper meaning with that growth. If we read a verse(s) and say that that is all that it means, then we are limiting God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted May 23, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [My spouse says that the Bible says, "Ye need not that any man teach you, for you have the leading of the Holy Spirit". You cannot find a verse that has those words. BUT, there is that understanding if you read the Bible carefully. I believe the Lord gave that revelation to my spouse. I have always said this: As you grow and mature in the Lord, certain verses will take on a deeper meaning with that growth. If we read a verse(s) and say that that is all that it means, then we are limiting God. Often an application by way of principle is possible, even if the verse is not explicit. I John 2:26,27 "I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray (context= falsse teachers/antichrists). As for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you." ==we do not need false teachers, since we have the Spirit of truth. However, Christ gave godly teachers to the Body for our instruction and edification in the Word. Eph. 4:11,12 I John is not saying that we do not need teachers. We just do not need heretics to give us secret knowledge when we have the truth and godly teachers. So, the Lord gave a revelation in I John. He simply illuminated (give light) to His Word even if your wife did not quote the verse verbatim or knew where to find it. "The Lord helps them who help themselves" is not in the Bible, so do not expect a revelation on it. It is only 1/2 true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A Stone Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 [My spouse says that the Bible says, "Ye need not that any man teach you, for you have the leading of the Holy Spirit". You cannot find a verse that has those words. BUT, there is that understanding if you read the Bible carefully. I believe the Lord gave that revelation to my spouse. I have always said this: As you grow and mature in the Lord, certain verses will take on a deeper meaning with that growth. If we read a verse(s) and say that that is all that it means, then we are limiting God. Often an application by way of principle is possible, even if the verse is not explicit. That's it! That is what I wanted to say! Thanks a heep! May I use that in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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