zotah

Where In The Bible Does It Say Gambling Is A Sin? I've tried to find where in the Bible it says Gambling is a sin and I haven't had much luck. Even doing a word search I never found the word Gamble anywhere in the whole KJV Bible. I've heard that gambling is a sin. Can anyone tell me where in scripture it shows this. Thanks for any help you can give me. Thanks, Zotah

I have a real important question I need answered. Based on these 4 verses in Matt 22:37-40 [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. So my question is if you had to choose from these 4 possible choices. Which one would you choose and why would you choose that one. I

Was Jesus Ever Known As The Son Of God Before He Came To Earth In The Old Testament? I've been trying to find verses in the old testament to verify if Jesus was considered the Son of God in the Old Testament. I Have not been able to confirm this. My question is: Did Jesus only become known as the "Son of God" after he was born on earth to Mary. Or was he always known as the "Son of God" through out time past. If he is known as the "Son of God" before he came to earth, Is there any verses I could go to? Or is the current established belief that it wasn't until he was born that he was first mentioned as the "Son of God"? Let me know Thanks, Zotah

I was saved at the age of 9 years old. And my whole life has had Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour. My question is, If I got saved without knowing or understanding clearly that Jesus is Almighty God. Does that mean that salvation is based completely on excepting Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour. Or does it meant that you can not be saved until you understand that Jesus is God and also except him as your Lord and saviour. The Bible says: I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the Father except by me. It wasn't until later I understood that Jesus was God. So does that mean I really wasn't saved in the first place or does that mean my salavation really didn't come to be until I did understand that fact. Another words is salvation of understanding that Jesus is God a requirment to being saved? The reason I bring this up is that Philip in John 14:8-9 didn't even understand that Jesus was God up until this point: John 14:8-9 (KJV) Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? So here we see Philip didn't even know up until this point in time that Jesus was God the Father and yet it would seem Philip was saved already trusting in Jesus. Another Question: Can a person get saved if they don't believe that Jesus is God. What if someone trust Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour but absolutly does not believe that Jesus is God. If you answer that is imposible to be saved and believe that Jesus is not God then you have to say that a person can't be saved at all without the full understanding that Jesus is God. You see my point, Please let me know what you think? Thanks, Zotah

1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6 I was always told as a baptist that while Jesus was dead for 3 days he went to Paridise (Luke 16) and released all the spirits from there to heaven. 1 Peter 3:19 says By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison: and 1 Peter 4:5-6 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live accourding to God in the spirit. Question #1 Who were these people Jesus Preached to, were they Jews only or were they everyone who had a hope of the Messiah coming? Question #2 Where does it say in the Bible that we don't have another chance after we die to except Christ. Question #3 What about those millions of people through out time over that last 2000 years that had died and never heard of Jesus Christ before. Do these verses point to that fact that they might have a chance to get saved after they die or will they all go to hell since they never excepted Christ. Question #4 What is the age of accountability. 3 years old or older? Question #5 Where does the Bible talk about the age of accountability? and do Babys go to heaven. Where does it say that? Question #6 What do these verses Mean and who are they talking about? 1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6 See above. Do these people Jesus was talking and preaching too. Are they only the people that had died before Jesus had died. I think that's enough questions. I really would like to know the exact teaching on this. Thanks, Zotah

From what I have read of his post is that, he is simply taking the word God and interchanging it with the word Spirit since God is a Spirit. I personally would not use the word Spirit in place of the word God because that could be confusing and misleading since there are many spirits but only one God never the less God is a Spirit. I understand that he is only doing it to help him understand the scriptures a little better, but some times switching words out can lead to confusion and others times it can lead to better understanding. Classic example 1Cor13 "God is Love" chapter and by replacing the word Love with God you get a better understanding of the nature of God since God is love; but in other places in scripture you can not replace the word love with God because it would not make any sense. So you have to use a little common sense when word swapping. Now if you take the original word God and look it up in Greek or Hebrew sometimes the word God can carry different meanings such: Majestic, Divine, Judge, Lord, Creator, Almighty, Strength, etc.., and other times the word God is used as a title in place of God's name: Yahovah or Yahovee, Elohim, and El. So sometimes taking different words that describe the same thing or person can help you understand something from a different prospective. Jedi I couldn't have said it better. I agree. Zotah.

Can someone help me understand what the word "New" Means in this verse. Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea..... Verse 5 says: And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.... Does this mean "New" like every part of earth and every part of heaven is to be re-created totally new and all of the original earth and original heaven is to be burned up and destroyed completely. Another words all atoms and molecules will be completely gone and all new atoms and new molecules will be replacing them. Or does "new" mean something else. Does it mean that earth and heavon is redone. Using the same atoms and the same moleules over again. Not destroying them only cleaning them or fixing them. Like instead of a "new" carbourator you get a re-built carbourator. So does "new" in this verse mean "bran new" or "rebuilt new"? I believe it means "bran new" Am I right in my way of thinking? Let me know? Thanks, Zotah

As far as me making my mind up. I can agree that everyone on this Forum has made up their mind already on many things. However I still would like to see the different ways that people think. This is a great way to learn and at the same time challenge others to look and study the Bible personally. I've asked this question many times with other Forums as well and as of yet have not gotten any real direct answer to the question. John 4:24 says: "God is a Spirit" and they that worship hinm must worship him in spirit and in truth. Now I might be wrong but this verse says to me " God is a Spirit" and it also tells me that I need to worship him in spirit and in truth. I'm taking this straight at the words of it's exact meaning and not trying to change anything. Everybody likes to use the egg illistration but. I would like you to compare the egg illistration to these 3 verses and see if it really make since. Rom 6:4 ....that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, John 2:19 ...Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.......verse 21: But he spake of the temple of his body. Here we have 3 verses all saying exactly the samething and that is God is going to raise Jesus from the dead. First in Rom 6:4 says that the Father raised Jesus Second in Rom 8:11 says the Spirit raised Jesus Third it clearly says Jesus rose himself. No eggs here. Father Spirit and Jesus are all the exact same God. (Not 3 parts) but one God. If we believed otherwise then we would have a hard time understanding ourselves. For example, are we not created as 3 aspects of one being, God has 3 aspects of himself. When we die does not our spirit leave the body and go to be with the Lord (If we've been born again) 2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Is not my "spirit" all me and is not my "body" all me and is not my "mind or soal" all me "All at the same time". I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to separate a human being into 3 parts. or 3 parts of an egg. So why do we try to seperate "God" into 3 parts. God is only one part and is only one God. showing himself to us in 3 different ways. Did not Jesus himself claim he was the Holy Spirit in Matt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Now he said the word "I" not "Holy Spirit" although we know he simply decided to use the word "I" here because it was the most appropriate and yet putting the word "Holy Spirit" would have also been appropriate. However when it comes directly to the word "God" it always is clarifing that it's all 3 aspects of "One God" so interchanging any one of the aspects of God "I think" would be ok in certain examples. For example: John 20:17 says ...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God. Now since it says "God" this is a clear example of where God can be looked at as 3 aspects of the same God. Now which aspect would you use to understand this Verse. Example One: I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my (Father) and your God. Example Two: I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my (Spirit) and your God. Example Three: I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my (Jesus) and your God. I choose to think of himself describing this verse as "to my (Spirit) and your God. Again, not changing the word of God at all and not changing the ink on the page. It's just understand who God is will help us understand what this verse means. Remember this verse. John 4:24 God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Why then can't we understand God in spirit and in truth. If we understand God this way it sure helps understand a lot of problems with this verse. John 20:17 ... I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. If fact without understand this is in a Spiritial way we might even come to the conclusion like so many cults have today. To say that Jesus had a God and therefore was a created being from God. This is why I've asked this question to see if anyone could correct me on this from the Bible to prove me wrong. Based on this exact effidence that I've shown to prove my thinking on this. And by the way if someone can point to my error "I welcome it" I'm not that proud to change my mind on anything if It can be proven from the Bible. Maybe I'm right about most of it but I've got one or two things wrong. I would love to be corrected. I'm not a Paster and have no Biblical education beyond what I see for myself from the Bible. So if anyone can sort all this out for me and show me clearly where I need correction I'm welcoming it. Thanks for your thoughts on this positive or negitive. Zotah

There is only "ONE" egg but that egg has three different parts to it in order for it to be an egg. Those parts are the shell, the yoke and the white of the egg but those three parts only make up one egg. The same with the Godhead the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three persons that make up one God. So is it with the Godhead Father, Son and Holy Ghost these are One. All three are God. The Father is our creator who made heaven and earth. The Son is the only "begotten son of God the Father who is the Saviour of the world God in flesh. The holy spirit manifests to us the will of God bringing his word back to our remembrace. To me it seems that your mind has already been made up on the subject and instead of convincing you it's more like your trying to convince others to do the same as you do on the matter. You, strike me as being "Jesus Only" or "Apostolic" by the things you are saying, in this thread. It's really is of no worth to complicate the Word as there is simplisticity in the gospel. You don't have to be convinced from what you believe as you are not going to move. I say, you should live out your own faith. However, I do not believe in changing words around for the Godhead it's pretty plain. Instead of changing words around maybe it will benifit you more to study the trinity as laid down in the word without changing words around. oc

What I'm trying to understand is why is it that by Calling God "Spirit" or "Holy Spirit" somehow is not Interchangable both ways. I do believe that when I see the word God I see the word "Spirit" and when I see the word "Spirit" I see the word "God" so both words are interchangeable both ways "Are they Not" So if you can't Interchange the words "God" with "Spirit" or "Spirit" with "God" and at the sametime say that God is Spirit. What's the difference. As long as you or I don't change the word of God by changing the ink on the page to differenct words. Because I would agree that would be wrong. Help me understand why I can't interchange the word "God" with "Spirit" when it's appropriate to do so, Only by thought transfer only? Not by actually changing the ink on the page. Thanks, Zotah

Jedi, Your funny and your right!. I love your example of "God Inc, Incorpoerated" Right on the point, Well said, Zotah

Haz, _______________________________________________________________________________ Haz You wrote: There is more than one Jehovah and more than one God as individuals, but they are one Jehovah and one God in unity, thus expressing the truth of three separate and distinct persons, beings, or individuals in the Divine Trinity. _______________________________________________________________________________ What you wrote Here does not show me that you believe in the traditional belief of Trinity at all. You're clearly believing (I Quote: There is more than one Jehovah and more than one God as individuals,) Close Quote You're also saying (I Quote: (But they are one Jehovah and one God in unity) God in Unity is not "One God at all" Do you understand the difference between "One God" meaning simply One God not 2 not 3 but only One verses the difference of "One God in Unity" One God in Unity can mean anything. It can mean several God's get together and all agree with one another. Your way off base in the true belief of Trinity. I may be a little different in how I clarify Trinity but I would never say One God in unity. The very word Unity is one of the favorite words the Jehovah Witnesses like to use to prove that Jesus is not God. I don't know where you stand on Trinity but this is surely not at all the true belief of Trinity. Simple that Jesus is God and God is Jesus. We are made in the Image of God and therefore we are trinity made. I appreciate your opening up your belief to me. But I totally disagree with your belief. I hope you reread my tread on Oneness above. and comment on why my verses don't make sinse to you. But if you really study over every verse and reason on them I think you'll come to a different conclusion then what you've been saying. Zotah

Haz, I'm having a hard time understanding what we are debating. Bottom line is: Do you even believe in the Trinity? Do you even believe that Jesus is God? If you do believe in the Trinity I need more explaination of exactly where we differ in belief. My whole concept of this subject is the differences of trinity beliefs. Not weather Jesus is God in Trinity. Please clarify for me that You even believe in Trinity at all. Thanks, Zotah

Jedi, To answer your question you'll need to answer what this verse really means and how it could be possible for Jesus to be in the midst. When Jesus said I will be in the midst of them. Matt: 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Apparently, If Jesus is The Holy Spirit and The Holy Spirit is Jesus. Then for Jesus it would only determine what he wanted to do, would determine what form of himself he wanted to do it in. We think that Jesus always has to be in his physical form to do anything. But I ask, Why do we always want to limit God in our own mind and way of thinking. I would like to know with after showing all these scriptures why I'm in error saying things like: Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and the Holy Spirit is Jesus and Jesus is the Holy Spirit and the Father is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is The Father. Where am in in error by believing that? I hear a lot of discussion but I never really get a strait to the point answer on this statement above. I do hear a lot of answers like "It's a mystery" and I really don't like that answer because I think its a cop out. I love genuine questions. So if you have any more genuein questions for me I'd love to hear them. I learn from them as well because it really challenges my thinking about God and the Bible. I still havent got a really good answer yet why I can't interchange the word God with Spirit in John 20:17 ...I ascend unto my Fahter, and your Father, and to my God, and your God. and only when I think about it only in my mind not changing the actual words to .... I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my (Spirit), and your God. I would be glad to change my position if someone could give me a good enough explanation of why I shouldn't. The answers I have gotten so far is that I shouldn't change the word of God ever. and I reply I agree I'm only refering to how I interpret the word God not actually changing the ink in the Bible itself. Anyway thanks for the reply, Back at ya, Zotah

Haz, Thanks for that long reply, I was going to give you the answer but Jedi4Yahweh answered it for me. I agree with Jedi, Jesus is the Father. and the Father is Jesus, Jesus is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Jesus. The Father is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the Father. Let me show you from the Bible to prove it. Let's start off to show that Jesus is the Father: Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Some may argue that ther are 2 Fathers the everlasting Father known as Jesus and the Father of Jesus is the 2nd Father. but then you have to answer this verse. Matt 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. If you believe this verse then, there can be only (one) Father. So if you truly believe the Bible and Trinity then the only conclusion is that Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus. Now to move on to the next issue: Jedi already showed us that Jesus raised himself from the dead and the Father raised himself from the Dead and the Holy Spirit Raised Jesus from the dead but I'll show you again anyway. The Father clearly Raised Jesus from the Dead Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,.... The Spirit Clearly Raised Jesus from the Dead:[/b] Rom 8:11 But if the "Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Jesus Clearly Raised Himself from the Dead:[/b] John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Distroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up......21) But he spake of the temple of his body. This Verse shows us that the Father is the Spirit: John 4:24 God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. This Verse shows us that Jesus is the Spirit: Matt: 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Comment on this: The verse Matt: 18:20 is very important and a lot of Christians miss it: It clearly shows us that Jesus says (there am I in the midst of them) We clearly know he's talking about himself as the Holy Spirit in this verse. Otherwise we have 2 Spirits of God and I hope we agree that we have but only (One God) and think about it How could Jesus, even in his Incoruptible Body be everywhere on the planet all at the sametime if you wasn't the Holy Spirit which this verse implies And we know that The Holy Spirit is a Spirit: So Haz, Maybe, I'm missing something in your reply, but I think your trying to seperate God into more then what he is. I don't know. But if you believe that the Father and Jesus are not all the same (One) God then I'm going to need a little deeper understanding on what you do believe and why you believe it, and on answering these scriptures for me and Jedi4Yahwey have pointed out to you. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that Jesus was all man and all God all at the sametime? Made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Look: we accept that when we read the Bible it shows us in many places that our spirit leave our body and is present with the Lord Heb. 9:27 So right there you have a contradiction because that would make us 2 different things. But we understand that we are not 2 things but one thing made up in our total being as a soul, spirit and a body. So why is it so hard to except God as Jesus? If you are saying it's impossible because the Father was in Heaven and the Son was on earth. Then you'll need to look at Ecc. 3:15 to find out how that's possible: Ecc. 3:15 The Father is speaking here: That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past. Don't you see: The Father was and is and will be outside of time. There is no time with the Father. So if the Father is outside of time and Jesus was locked in time all at the same time. Then there would be not contradiction for Jesus praying to the Father all at the same time. And yet still be all the same (One) God The second question people ask and that is why would the Father even want to come down to earth as the Son. Why didn't the Father just come down and say: Here I am, I'm the Father. and never be called the Son at all: The answer is clearly in Mal 1:6 Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you,....... Now you might say that this verse doesn't apply and I would debate you on that for several reasons. First off. We know Jesus came down here to be a servant: he clearly proved that by his very words in John 13:13-16 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him, So, it doesn't mean that because Jesus was a servant that he wasn't God, In fact it proves that Jesus is God even more. because he came as a servant to earth so his honour and glory would (If it were possible) even be more magnified. (and the only way to understand that is in Mal 1:6) Now when you read Mal 1:6 it makes more since that when the father says: if then I be a father, where is mine Honour. He gets more Honor by coming down as the Son glorifying the Father (Spirit of God) then by coming down as representing himself as the Father. The second reason that I believe that Mal 1:6 represents The Father and Jesus by just the fact that it's right in the last book of the old Testiment. and Malachi was the last Prophet to tell us what the Father was planing to do. Read all of Malachi and you'll see the context of the whole book. Now to make another point I just thought of, Jesus does show us in the Scriptures that he clearly does say he is the Father as well. but mostly he represents himself as the Son or Son of God. Take a look at this verse and tell me what you think? John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? The key to understanding this verse is: (Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me) Jesus is directly refering himself as the Father by saying the word (I) This shows me clearly that The Father is Jesus and that Jesus is the Father. I could go on and on but I'll save some more for the next tread. Let me know what you think about these verses and if you can counter these verses with a different view. Thanks again as always for your thoughts, Zotah