Believer112

Who's teachings are these? Yes, I know we can find those in the Word, but where did you cut and paste that from? Who wrote? Would you mind posting that prayer? I'd like to see it. "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit" (Ps. 51:10-12). As New Testament believers to pray this same prayer would be an insult to what Christ has done for us. God created a new heart in us when we were born again (2 Cor. 5:17) and sealed it with His Holy Spirit so it would never be polluted again (Eph. 1:13). He promised He would never leave us nor forsake us (Heb. 13:5), and His love, joy, and peace are now a permanent part of our born-again spirits (Gal. 5:22). Yet multitudes of New Testament Christians pray and sing the exact opposite of this. Your teacher is twisting scripture, plain and simple. He's stating that the Word of God is an insult to the Word of God. Can't you see that? The Word teaches us that a kingdom divided cannot stand, so if the Word of God is divided against itself, what does that make it? 2 Timothy 3 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. By saying the words of David are an insult to what Christ has done, you are denying the truthfulness of that passage in Timothy. You're saying it's not true. You do understand that..................................right? Think about it. He did not twist anything he made an observation.

Who's teachings are these? Yes, I know we can find those in the Word, but where did you cut and paste that from? Who wrote? Would you mind posting that prayer? I'd like to see it. "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit" (Ps. 51:10-12). As New Testament believers to pray this same prayer would be an insult to what Christ has done for us. God created a new heart in us when we were born again (2 Cor. 5:17) and sealed it with His Holy Spirit so it would never be polluted again (Eph. 1:13). He promised He would never leave us nor forsake us (Heb. 13:5), and His love, joy, and peace are now a permanent part of our born-again spirits (Gal. 5:22). Yet multitudes of New Testament Christians pray and sing the exact opposite of this. Your teacher is twisting scripture, plain and simple. He's stating that the Word of God is an insult to the Word of God. Can't you see that? The Word teaches us that a kingdom divided cannot stand, so if the Word of God is divided against itself, what does that make it? 2 Timothy 3 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. By saying the words of David are an insult to what Christ has done, you are denying the truthfulness of that passage in Timothy. You're saying it's not true. You do understand that..................................right? Think about it. But isn't it true that when David prayed this prayer he didn't have the Holy Ghost? He didn't have what us new testament saints have. Jesus in us? We have to realize Jesus is in us and we are a new creation. What has Christ has done for us?

You wrote, If someone prays, "God, get the devil off my back," because they cannot resist the devil with their own strength - is it unscriptural to call on the Lord for deliverance? Since when are we supposed to rely on our own strength anyway? Sure, God gave us power. But does He want our faith to be in our power, or even the power He gave us, rather than on Him? Romans 4:20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, Ephesians 3:16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, First, I believe the power of Jesus ( IN US!) is greater than powers, pricipalitie .... One of these days I'll have scripture memorized. Second, Faith in God is power! Third, the words that usually come after "but" is unbelief. Lord you said in Jer 1:12."I am ready to perform My Word and in Jer 33:3."Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things. Lord I pray everyone in this forum, gets a revalation of, the raiseing from the dead power you place inside us, from our Lord Christ Jesus. I pray you open our eyes to see and our ears to hear and understand what we really have in Christ. I pray we step out and live victorious in this fallen world. Because you said we are the head and not the tail. Lord, you said in Proverbs 18:21 The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit. I pray life into the people of this forum. All I ask is in Jesus' Name. Thank you Lord Praise be your glorious Name. .

How do we know what love is? God's love to us or our love to Him. No matter what we hear or what we read it's our perspective of what Love is. Our experience. Example. Lets say I grew up in a house of strife and drugs. When I was fed was told to sit under the table. An occasional pat on the back and mostly a burn from a cigarette. What would my perspective of love be? Would it be the same as yours?

Who's teachings are these? Yes, I know we can find those in the Word, but where did you cut and paste that from? Who wrote? Would you mind posting that prayer? I'd like to see it. "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit" (Ps. 51:10-12). As New Testament believers to pray this same prayer would be an insult to what Christ has done for us. God created a new heart in us when we were born again (2 Cor. 5:17) and sealed it with His Holy Spirit so it would never be polluted again (Eph. 1:13). He promised He would never leave us nor forsake us (Heb. 13:5), and His love, joy, and peace are now a permanent part of our born-again spirits (Gal. 5:22). Yet multitudes of New Testament Christians pray and sing the exact opposite of this.

Of all the things about the Word of Faith people like to gripe about, what you have expressed here is what has come to bother me the most. Note, I am "charasmaniac" (my pet phrase for fun). What I see from WOF is an emphasis more on "positive confession" and "victorious living" than on learning how to love, how to draw deeper into the heart of the Father, how to serve one another, how to know God (as opposed to knowing about God). If someone prays, "God, get the devil off my back," because they cannot resist the devil with their own strength - is it unscriptural to call on the Lord for deliverance? Since when are we supposed to rely on our own strength anyway? Sure, God gave us power. But does He want our faith to be in our power, or even the power He gave us, rather than on Him? Is that not the message the Lord gave to Job? Job and his friends believed God was good to Job because Job was good (thus the false counsel that the disasters had to have been on account of sin). But what Job and the others needed to know was that God was good to Job because God is good. See the difference in the focus? Imagine a teenagers finally given the car keys. The teen says, "Thanks Dad!" and runs off with the car. Then he shows of "his" car to his friends, boasts of "his" driving skills, etc. - yet he never acknowledges the car is his father's, the driving skills he attained were worked into him by his father, even the keys are his father's. And that's what I see with the WOF - it's all about me and my ability and my faith and my confession and my prayer. Where is the intimacy with the Lord in all of this? Where is the laying down of pride? And where is the training in love - the greatest command? Romans 4:20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, Ephesians 3:16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, Job- I believe it was satan who wronged Job, God is good. Weren't a couple of his friends rebuked be God.

Let me try this again about prayer. Do you think this would be a good prayer? Or is it stupid? "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit" (Ps. 51:10-12). I used to pray this too. 1God get the devil off my back. ( James 4:7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.) 2 Come Lord, or go with us Lord (Hebrews 13:5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you.") 3. God poor out your spirit (Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost) 4 Give me peace Lord. (Eph 2 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation), 5 Oh heal me lord (1 Peter 2:24 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.) A lot of what we ask God's done 2000 years ago or we were commanded to do. When we pray contrary to God's word It's unbelief. And for the prayer above As New Testament believers to pray this same prayer would be an insult to what Christ has done for us. God created a new heart in us when we were born again (2 Cor. 5:17) and sealed it with His Holy Spirit so it would never be polluted again (Eph. 1:13). He promised He would never leave us nor forsake us (Heb. 13:5), and His love, joy, and peace are now a permanent part of our born-again spirits (Gal. 5:22). Yet multitudes of New Testament Christians pray and sing the exact opposite of this. This is what I believe.

I believe it's always God's mercy and grace when someone is healed thru the prayer of faith.

As a wise man told me. I need to step away.

You're right, we don't know your desires. You say you love God and then say you don't know what love is. Is it possible that when you say you have understanding, that there's a chance that you don't? Just asking. I know I don't have complete understanding. Does your passing judgment even the score? Does any of us know what Love is. Glad you asked. We only know what we've experienced as love. I passed no judgment just asked to think. My desires were attacked

Are these examples of praying "unscripturally"? If they are, they're good examples. What's happening in those prayers is you're bypassing God and attempting to do it on your own. If one doesn't have the backing of the Holy Spirit, you're simply praying into the air. Thinking that one can cast out demons without the assistance of God is placing ones self on the same level as God. That's dangerous. And thinking that God will answer every one of your prayers simply because He said He would is also dangerous. That's called tempting God. The devil did this with Jesus when he put Him up on the pinnacle of the temple and told Him to throw Himself down. Satan quoted scripture that indicated the angels would save Jesus from falling. Jesus quoted right back saying, "You shall not tempt the Lord your God". Tempting God is not a good thing. Did I ever say he answers every prayer? I can say he hears every prayer!There's a mindset here. God hears alot of things, not all of it's good. What's the mindset? I did read all of your post. What point are you trying make with the verses? Post#122? God will never do anything outside or contrary to His will, is what I meant. WOF mindset, seems you inject things I don't say. 1God get this evil away from me. 2 Come Lord be with meJesus 3. Save Him Lord. 4 Give me peace Lord. 5 Lord meet my needs

So this is unscriptural? Matthew 6 9 Therefore pray in this way: Our Father, who is in Heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. You are blinded by your desires instead of being able to read what God's word says. No not unscriptural Again you don't know my desires. It's possible an evil heart thinks it knows what my heart is? Think about it! You've past judgment on me. God Bless you.

Are these examples of praying "unscripturally"? If they are, they're good examples. What's happening in those prayers is you're bypassing God and attempting to do it on your own. If one doesn't have the backing of the Holy Spirit, you're simply praying into the air. Thinking that one can cast out demons without the assistance of God is placing ones self on the same level as God. That's dangerous. And thinking that God will answer every one of your prayers simply because He said He would is also dangerous. That's called tempting God. The devil did this with Jesus when he put Him up on the pinnacle of the temple and told Him to throw Himself down. Satan quoted scripture that indicated the angels would save Jesus from falling. Jesus quoted right back saying, "You shall not tempt the Lord your God". Tempting God is not a good thing. Did I ever say he answers every prayer? I can say he hears every prayer! There's a mindset here in this forum . Please read all of Post #122

Old And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. Mark 4:19 New For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13 Jesus Wins! Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Philippians 2:14-15 He's Still Working To Shape And To Mold Me! Hallelujah! That's good the care's of this world.

Back to prayer. I'm not going to mention money. Did you know you can pray unscripturally? "Lord if it's your will" for me to be healed, prospered, joy. Well if it's in scripture its His will. Give me peace! well God says you have peace, you just have to stir it up on your own, that prayer was out of the will of God. Can't ask God to cast out a demon he told you to do it.! Plus, you don't speak to God about your mountain. you speak to your mountain about God's word! Lord thank you for you grace and love you said: Mt 21:22.whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." I know it's not your will for him to be sick because you said in: 3John 2..Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers, 1Pet 2:24. (Jesus) bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness -- by whose stripes you were healed. satan I bind your powers of sickness and disease! Cancer is just a name but Jesus is the name above all names! I command you cancer to die in Jesus's Name! Praise, Praise, Praise, You have to believe scriptures with all you heart soul mind. That's a big problem with most Christians. Especially after reading the "sign & wonder posting" too much unbelief! You have to have an understanding of the spiritual realm. I feel satan has stolen a lot of the scripture that started this topic. Just a thought God Bless You

Scriputure . . . what others have gone through. OneLight - do you realize how much of the Bible is a collection of what people have gone through? True, What a thought! God's word hasn't ended aren't we the rest of the story?

My feeling not knowing what love is.

Do you not love Him with all your heart? Oh Yes!I Love God!

Dear Brothers and Sisters, I believe your prejudices of this WOF demon is going to affect your prayer life. It will affect your thoughts of God's love. It will make you skip (believing) certain scriptures in the bible. It will make you feel unworthy to come to God. Your own fears of it not coming to pass???? Now write down all you dislikes or attitudes about WOF. Line them up against this scripture. Because these prejudices will create deep unbelief in your hearts. We try to out think God. John 16:23-25 (New King James Version) 23 "And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. 24 Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full. 25 "These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. God only knows why he won't answer our prayers. Period! So, don't stop believing you carnel minded (see,hear,taste, feel,and smell)

Do you believe that when someone is seeking guidance from the Holy Spirit that they tune into satan? Come now, greater is He that is in you then he that is in the world! Over the years I have suggested a couple of Word Study Dictionaries that explain the Greek and Hebrew deeper then what you may find on the internet. The understanding you can gain is well worth the little price you have to pay. The Complete Word Study Old and New Testament Dictionary Set, 2 Volumes and I would also suggest an interlinear bible. The bible is hard to read at first, but once you become use to the formation of how they use to talk, it is rather enlightening. It's not a matter of tuning into satan he just interjects. I don't think Jesus was tuning in when satan tried to tempt him.

Unfortunately, it sounds better on paper than it comes across in practice. Take for instance MAtt. 16:13-19 13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist ; and others, Elijah ; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am ?" 16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church ; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven ; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven." One person says Jesus is calling Peter the rock upon which He will build His church. Another says Peter's confession is the rock upon which Jesus will build His church. Another will point out the significance of Caesarea Philippi (note that you have to go outside of Scripture to research this) having what the people back then called "the Gates of Hell" - where a river poured out of a cliff, that is a "rock". Then you have all three saying to each other, "Now if you would just listen to the Holy Spirit...." I can think of times when I was sure the Holy Spirit was showing me a certain meaning to a certain passage, only to come to the understanding later what I thought I was shown was wrong. As far as personal experience, why would the Lord include "the word of their testimony" as one of the means by which the believers overcame the Accuser? And how about when John said, "We are testifying to what we have seen and heard"? Are these not "experiences"? If your theology does not match with life, is not your theology wrong? If I shared how I had faith in Scripture as is spoken by the Word of Faith, but then I fell deeper into debt, and I shared this with a WOF'er as an example that the theology is false, and they responded by claiming I'm not trusting in what is clearly written in Scripture and shouldn't rely on my experience - would you agree? Wow! all had my Spirit excited until WOF came up.

I'm just curious what keeps us from loving God with all our hearts.Or do we love God as much as we think we do?

So in your opinion, which is the best way to study the scriptures? Analyzing to refine understanding or taking them at face value? The best way is to allow Christ to live in you completely and He will teach you through His Spirit. Trust in the LORD with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths. Learn to trust in the LORD enough to hear His whisper in a noisy life and you will know what His scripture says by hearing the guidance of His Spirit. That doesn't answer the question but never mind. It's not important. Yes it does, just not in your parameters. Did you trust is the Lord and lean not on your own understanding when you came up with that answer? If you did then you would've known that when I said "it's not important", I was saying it's not worth bickering over. And no, you didn't answer my question. All you did was make an attempt to give me a bunch of flowery words. So I'll ask you again. When one studies the scriptures, is it best to analyze what is being said in order to get a better understanding or do you just read it like a dime store novel and take everything at face value? Since the topic of this thread is word of faith, I'll use a verse that's used in that doctrine. Isaiah 53 5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. At face value one could interpret that to mean physical healing, but if one were to sit back and give it some thought, a totally different meaning can be found. The bible is filled with verses such as that and there are people who truly believe they are trusting in the Holy Spirit to guide them, but they're still getting it wrong. So is it better to search for better understanding or do we just believe it by faith and hope we got it right? One more thing. Since you brought up listening to the Holy Spirit, what did He say to you about Bethesda? Who is bickering? I know I'm not .. are you? Is it always an either/or with you brother? Is it possible that when you are being taught by the Holy Spirit that His explanation is good enough where one does not always have to analyze? By the way, throwing in the phrase "dime store novel" really does not give weight to your stance at all, but lessons it. When you take Him at His word, do you consider His word a dime store novel because you accepted what He said? At face value, transgressions and iniquities are not physical, but spiritual. Everyone gets it wrong at time, brother. Nobody has a perfect understanding. That is why we reason with each other, discuss and challenge, so through His guidance we are refined. As for Bethesda, when did we discuss this and what is there to consider? You will have to be more complete in your question. You have to listen to your Spirit. Praise God! I thought it was spiritual healing also, after looking it up on the internet. Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded 2490 for our transgressions 6588, [he was] bruised 1792 for our iniquities 5771: the chastisement 4148 of our peace 7965 [was] upon him; and with his stripes 2250 we are healed 7495 . You have to read, study and meditate on the word of God. I don't agree with a lot of you, as far as teachers go. There are teachers out there who study the word of God (40& 50 years) and know the Hebrew and Greek tranlation. I hear that the Holy Spirit guides you when reading and that is true, satan can also deceive you!

The book of Job disagrees with your view. God does not need our permission to operate. Please explain? God permitted the devil to test Job with trials. Job didnt give God permission for that. God did it all on His own. God decided when He would restore Job to better than his previous circumstances. God didnt have to wait for Job's permission. God in fact rebuked Job for daring to question Him. God is sovereign. His will be done. Not ours. God does not ever need our permission to do anything. Galatians 3 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:6-8 (in Context) James 4 (Whole Chapter) And how does this contradict anything I posted? It says we submit to God. It does not say we give Him permission to do anything. It does not contradict the book of Job. We have power of Jesus living within us as new testament saints. Job didn't have that ability

The book of Job disagrees with your view. God does not need our permission to operate. Please explain? God permitted the devil to test Job with trials. Job didnt give God permission for that. God did it all on His own. God decided when He would restore Job to better than his previous circumstances. God didnt have to wait for Job's permission. God in fact rebuked Job for daring to question Him. God is sovereign. His will be done. Not ours. God does not ever need our permission to do anything. Galatians 3 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:6-8 (in Context) James 4 (Whole Chapter)