Eccl12v13

So just what are these 'spirits' doing in hades while waiting for Judgement? .

EVERY SINGLE PERSON? NO!! Come on! Some? Yes! But EVERY SINGLE PERSON? No way! Let's start with pre-school....uhhhhhh, No! Then elementary......uhhhhhh, No! College.......are you kidding, NO!! First, second, third jobs...no! Those parties I went to......No! The person that first stopped me and asked me if I ever considered this, and this and this and that about the Lord..........YES! Did I listen.......No! The next person that stopped me asked asked if I had ever considered this, that or the other about the Lord........YES! Did I listen.......No! The time when the guy on the radio said to ask God to forgive me of my sins and trust in Him.......YES! Did I do it........No! All of the "Other" parties and clubs and bars and events that I went to in between all of the people that asked me if I knew the Lord..........No! God kept sending His word to me through different people and media and one day, at some point.......it happened. I listened! "Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors." "Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments." "Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is." "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." .

There are some that claim, "All spirits go to the Father upon their death."! Are there others that believe this? And if so, just what do YOU mean by 'spirit'? While thinking about that, let's read some of God's words; Eccl.9 [2] All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath. Wow! Whatever event Solomon is talking about, it is NOT a respecter of persons. It touches the righteous AND the wicked. [3] This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. So the event is Death! It happens to us ALL! [5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. [6] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. [7] Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. [8] Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. [9] Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. [10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. King Solomon could not be more clear in what he was telling us. - There is ONE event that come to ALL. Whether you are good, or bad it will happen to everybody. - This event is DEATH! - Eat, drink and be merry! The time to do the works God will accept is NOW! While you are alive. - Stay ready for we know not the time nor hour. - Love thy wife and live life to the fullest. Whatever you have to do, do it NOW!!! - Because once you are dead, there is no more work that can be done. There is no wisdom nor knowledge in the grave where you go. That's pretty simple. When you are dead you are dead! Let's read what God made man from; Gen.2 [7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. So we have dirt and the breath of life from God that man is made of. And what happens to man after he dies? The “breath of life” that was put into man to make him a soul is taken away…..that’s it! And after a very long time that body that God made from dust goes right back to being dust. And this happens to ALL that die. Now let's read what God's breath of life is called.... Job 9 [18] He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness. Job 27 [3] All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; Here Job calls the breath within, “the spirit of God”. So when man dies, God's spirit leaves him. And where does it go? Back to the one that gave it; God! And what is the spirit that goes back to God? "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;" This is what God's word tells us returns to him upon death. So....back to my question, "There are some that claim, "All spirits go to the Father upon their death."! Are there others that believe this? And if so, just what do YOU mean by 'spirit'? .

Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?" Where are you guys? .

Just want to make sure I'm on the same page and I'm understanding you correctly. Are you claiming that ALL spirits return to the Father at death? .

If you took the time to really read my reply, I answered each and every one of your questions. And concerning Eccl.9, the verse is NOT referring to a time in the future, it speaks of the present state of the dead. When you are dead you know NOTHING. This is not my interpretation, this is what God's word tells us; "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." How plain is that? "The dead know not ANY THING..."! Can God be any more clear about the state of the dead, WHILE they are dead? Now when the dead are resurrected, then they will remember ALL that they have done. And look at what God AGAIN tells us He will judge them on. Will it be their 'faith'? No! It will be based upon those things that they did when they were alive. That is why there will be MANY that will be arguing with God over what they "thought" was the right thing to do to allow them enterance into His kingdom. But God tells them, "...depart from me, ye that work iniquity..." Over and over again, God tells us He will judge us based upon, deeds/actions/works! Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?" .

. From what I am reading, you do not believe we have a spirit. Am I correct? Have you not also read what Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." I have noticed that you have been asked more then once to clarify your stance. Would you please do this? What exactly do you believe happens once a person in Christ dies? To be honest, I cannot follow your first post. I do not believe that anyone would say that Christ was not the first to be raised from the dead. I would also dare say that using a "story" to make solid doctrine from is wrong. Parables were made to cause people to look for the truth, not to be truth. Please, back your stance with scripture. God's word tells us when we die we know nothing. Not just those that die in Christ but EVERYBODY! Eccl.9 [5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. [10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. 2 Cor.5 [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. And WHEN are we present with the Lord? Let's read.... [10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. We will be with the Lord when we are judged. Also note this judgment is based, "...according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.", on our deeds/actions/works! Let's read what Paul tells us about the saints of old; Heb.11 [39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: [40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. And what was this perfection they did not receive? Their perfect spirit bodies. Their eternal bodies is what they did not receive. Paul goes on to say that they would NOT be made perfect without him. So even though these all died in faith, they did NOT receive perfection BEFORE Paul. Why? Because ALL will receive their immortal bodies at the same time; 1 Cor.15 [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Now if NONE have received their spirit bodies, Jesus claim of being the first born of many brotheren would make sense. Why? Paul already told us. NONE of the saints of old have been given the promise of eternal life. Jesus has been the ONLY person, born of flesh and blood, died, and was given an eternal spirit body! And concerning the story of Lazarus; it was just that....a story, a parable to give people a view of what hell WILL be like. Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?" .

to whom are you asking that question? To Eccl12v13 - the question about Lazarus makes me question whether it is the afterlife of the person or the soul. The person does not have a spirit body at death the soul/spirit returns to the Father. I merely need clarification. Man is made of ONLY (2) substances; the dust of the earth and the breath of life from God. When man dies his body returns to being dust and the breath that was put into man returns to the one that gave it to man, God. God did not put a soul into man....man, the (2) parts together, ARE a soul! To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die? The story of Lazarus was just that. A story, a parable, to show a point. .

Jesus Christ is the ONLY, “…First born from the dead.”! Do you have anything to say about the above topic? .

Do you have anything to say about the topic? Jesus Christ being the first born of many brotheren? .

There are some that believe those that die in “good favor” or die with a “good report“ immediately go to be with God at the moment of their death. To them I have this question, “Just how did that work out for Lazarus, or any of the saints who died with a “good report?” Let’s think about it for a moment and ask ourselves…”Does this make any sense?” Lazarus was born flesh and blood, BUT....... When he died he received the promise of eternal life and became a "spirit being"; something he HAD to become to be in the presence of God, “…Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption…” THEN...... God put him BACK into a corruptible flesh and blood body to bring him back to life, to live hear on earth just to die AGAIN, THEN....... God gave him BACK the promise of eternal life and He went back to being a "spirit being" in a perfect spirit body when he died the SECOND time? Think about it…..would God take a corruptible body…..then give that same person a perfect “eternal spirit” body when they died….then when He brought them from the dead put them BACK into a corruptible body to die AGAIN…..just to be made perfect again at their SECOND death? Does that make sense? No it does not! And seeing that there were others that were raised from the dead BEFORE Lazarus, even in the OT, how is it that the scriptures says that Christ is the firstborn from the dead? Let’s read it….. Rom.8 [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Col.1 [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. It would seem that whoever was the first that was ‘first’ raised from the dead should claim that title before Christ. Yet the scriptures says that Christ was the first born from the dead! Is this scripture a LIE? Something just does not add up here……….UNLESS…….. Could Christ’s resurrection have been DIFFERENT from ALL of those others that was raised from the dead and died with a good report? Jesus resurrection HAD to be different!!!!! That’s why He, and He alone, holds the title of “Firstborn from the dead”! What was the promise that was made to the saints? Tit.1 [2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 1 John 2 [25] And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. The promise was NOT; being born, dying, being raised from the dead and given a “temporary” spirit body, then dying again….and then given an eternal spirit body! The promise is eternal life. NEVER ENDING! That requires an eternal spirit body! One that never dies, nor is it taken away and given back at another time! Now according to Paul have ANY saints received God's promise of eternal life? Heb.11 [39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: [40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect Now let’s understand just what it is Paul is saying here! Not ONE of the saints NOR prophets that died BEFORE Paul had yet received the promise of eternal life! NONE of them had been made perfect with a spirit body! And then we have the “Other” scripture that will try to be used to get loved ones with the Lord after their death… 2 Cor.5 [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Now why is it no one ever reads a few verses down? WHEN will we be present with the Lord? Let’s read it… [10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. God’s word tell us we ALL must appear before the judgment seat. Now does that happen in a corruptible body? NO! That happens when we have a perfect body! And when will ALL become perfect or incorruptible (not capable of DYING)? When will ALL that are found worthy to be raised in the first resurrection receive God’s promise of eternal life? All will receive perfection at the same time….just as Paul said; “…that they without us should not be made perfect.” Let’s read it…… 1 Cor.15 [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Death was NOT swallowed up or ended when Lazarus or ANY others were brought back to life, for ALL of them had to die again. Nor were any that died with a good report given an eternal, incorruptible, immortal, perfect spirit body upon their death. But when Jesus was raised from the dead he was given a "spirit body", an “immortal body”, an “incorruptible body”, an “eternal body”, one that would NOT return to being flesh and blood! Jesus received something NO other flesh and blood body has EVER received after they died!!! This is why the scriptures are correct when they say; Rom.8 [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Col.1 [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. God’s words CANNOT lie! Jesus resurrection WAS different!!! There will be a time when ALL that are counted worthy will receive God’s promise of eternal life. And it will be at the time both Job and Paul spoke; Job 14 [13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job knew that his body had to be changed. And he also knew that change would NOT happen at his death. [15] Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. Now let's read when Job's change will come.... “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Cor.15:52 When the LAST trumpet sounds those found worthy to be apart of the first resurrection will receive their long awaited promise of eternal life, for their change will have come! But for now, there is only one that has been born flesh and blood, was raised from the grave and received their change; an eternal spirit body! JESUS CHRIST.......the ONLY "FIRST BORN from the dead"!!!! .

Being a Gentile or not has nothing to do with salvation. Let's read who it was that was delivered from Egypt and let's read how God veiwed them all. Exod.12 [37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. [38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. So it was not just the nation of Israel that was delivered...there were other nations that departed Egypt along with the Israelites. Now let's read if God gave these "mixed multitude" of people a different set of laws to keep than what He gave the Israelites. Exod.12 [48] And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. [49] One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Num.15 [15] One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. [16] One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you. So there was one law for ALL that choose to follow the true and living God. Let's continue.... [27] And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. [28] And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. [29] Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. Even for the forgiveness of sins was there ONE LAW for all. It didn't matter what nation you were from. According to God a sin is a sin, and what it takes to forgive sin, it takes the samething for ALL! And was there a different punishment if one was not of the nation of Israel? Let's read... [30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. So the person, ANY PERSON, that wilfully sinned were put to death; whether they were a stranger or an Israelite. Sounds fair to me. Let’s read if this changed AFTER Jesus came and shed His blood. Heb.10 [26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. So God does not have (2) standards. Whatever it took for the nation of Israel..it took the same for ANY stranger...whether they were a Gentile or from another nation of people. The punishment for sin did NOT change after the shedding of Jesus Blood. Now if the punishment remained the same, why would God change the requirement for salvation? He wouldn't! Now let's confirm this. Let's see if those that died BEFORE Christ came to shed His blood had to do something different for salvation from those that came AFTER Christ shed His blood. Ezek.18 [20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Now we know what a sinner is. It is one that breaks the laws of God, which, according to God's inspired word, ALL have done. And the scriptures says he that sinneth shall die. Understand the death spoken of here is the second death., for everyone must die the first death. Now let's read what happens if the sinner, not just one from the nation of Israel, but ANY sinner turns from his ways, and stops breaking God's laws, or stop sinning; [21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. [22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Notice God did not say if just one from the nation of Israel stopped sinning he shall live. God's word simple says, "...if the WICKED will turn from his sins...."! That would include those of the nation of Israel, those of the nation of Gentiles, or those from ANY other nation of people! Now....does the wicked today, even AFTER the shedding of Jesus blood, have to STOP sinning for salvation? Or can they continue therein and YET receive the reward of eternal life? What it took then and what it takes now for salvation is the SAME for EVERYONE; Israelite, Gentile, or ANY other nation of people! "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." .

Where in God's word does it state that Abraham was a Gentile? How can Abraham, who was also called a Hebrew, ALSO be a Gentile? A Gentile is NOT anyone other that an Israelite. A Gentile is a nation of people just as the Israelites are a nation of people. Gentiles come from the seed of Japheth, while Abraham comes from the seed of Shem. .

t AGain, the problem is how you handle the text. You isolate texts as if they contain all the necessary information and you ignore huge portions of the Bible. Salvation in the Bible, is used 5 different ways. Not every use of the word "salvation" refers to salvation from sin. "Salvatoin" can refer to, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation. Sometimes all you need is one verse. Consider the following, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Now there are other verses that states sin is this and sin is that..but the above verse is the ONLY verse you need to know what sin is. Now let's read again what God tells us in needed for ETERNAL SALVATION. Not salvation from sin, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation....but ETERNAL SALVATION! God's word's says that ETERNAL SALVATION comes to those that OBEY Him! Heb.5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Now the ONLY salvation anyone should be concerned with is ETERNAL SALVATION! Because once you have that.....does anything else really matter? It's the last salvation given...salvation from God's lake of fire! And the salvation spoken of above is just that; ETERNAL SALVATION! And God, not me, tells us that this eternal salvation is given to ALL that obey Him. God is our master and WE are His servants. And what do servants do? They OBEY their master! You cannot serve with faith...you serve with action, works and deeds! "For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant." Now you do not have to believe God's word that eternal salvation is given to all that obey. But you also cannot ignore that this verse is in God's bible. So do we just ignore this verse because we have 50 others that says something else? No! Just as there are other verses that tell us what sin is we still have this little verse that says; ""Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So....God's word says ETERNAL SALVATION is for all that obey Him. Either you agree with Godf's words or you do not. You do have a choice! I'm going with the word of God on this one! I choose to OBEY HIM! . . .

Rev.20 [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. If ALL of these are unbelievers then NONE of their names should be found in God's books. But God's word tells us that AFTER the books are open "...WHOSOEVER...", was not found in the book was cast into the lake of fire. This lets us know that SOME of these that will be judged will NOT be cast into the lake of fire. According to your line of thinking there should be NO NAMES in God's books. But that cannot be the case, because the books are opened and read. .