Eccl12v13

So just what are these 'spirits' doing in hades while waiting for Judgement? .

EVERY SINGLE PERSON? NO!! Come on! Some? Yes! But EVERY SINGLE PERSON? No way! Let's start with pre-school....uhhhhhh, No! Then elementary......uhhhhhh, No! College.......are you kidding, NO!! First, second, third jobs...no! Those parties I went to......No! The person that first stopped me and asked me if I ever considered this, and this and this and that about the Lord..........YES! Did I listen.......No! The next person that stopped me asked asked if I had ever considered this, that or the other about the Lord........YES! Did I listen.......No! The time when the guy on the radio said to ask God to forgive me of my sins and trust in Him.......YES! Did I do it........No! All of the "Other" parties and clubs and bars and events that I went to in between all of the people that asked me if I knew the Lord..........No! God kept sending His word to me through different people and media and one day, at some point.......it happened. I listened! "Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors." "Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments." "Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is." "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." .

There are some that claim, "All spirits go to the Father upon their death."! Are there others that believe this? And if so, just what do YOU mean by 'spirit'? While thinking about that, let's read some of God's words; Eccl.9 [2] All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath. Wow! Whatever event Solomon is talking about, it is NOT a respecter of persons. It touches the righteous AND the wicked. [3] This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. So the event is Death! It happens to us ALL! [5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. [6] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. [7] Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. [8] Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. [9] Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. [10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. King Solomon could not be more clear in what he was telling us. - There is ONE event that come to ALL. Whether you are good, or bad it will happen to everybody. - This event is DEATH! - Eat, drink and be merry! The time to do the works God will accept is NOW! While you are alive. - Stay ready for we know not the time nor hour. - Love thy wife and live life to the fullest. Whatever you have to do, do it NOW!!! - Because once you are dead, there is no more work that can be done. There is no wisdom nor knowledge in the grave where you go. That's pretty simple. When you are dead you are dead! Let's read what God made man from; Gen.2 [7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. So we have dirt and the breath of life from God that man is made of. And what happens to man after he dies? The “breath of life” that was put into man to make him a soul is taken away…..that’s it! And after a very long time that body that God made from dust goes right back to being dust. And this happens to ALL that die. Now let's read what God's breath of life is called.... Job 9 [18] He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness. Job 27 [3] All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; Here Job calls the breath within, “the spirit of God”. So when man dies, God's spirit leaves him. And where does it go? Back to the one that gave it; God! And what is the spirit that goes back to God? "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;" This is what God's word tells us returns to him upon death. So....back to my question, "There are some that claim, "All spirits go to the Father upon their death."! Are there others that believe this? And if so, just what do YOU mean by 'spirit'? .

Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?" Where are you guys? .

Just want to make sure I'm on the same page and I'm understanding you correctly. Are you claiming that ALL spirits return to the Father at death? .

If you took the time to really read my reply, I answered each and every one of your questions. And concerning Eccl.9, the verse is NOT referring to a time in the future, it speaks of the present state of the dead. When you are dead you know NOTHING. This is not my interpretation, this is what God's word tells us; "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." How plain is that? "The dead know not ANY THING..."! Can God be any more clear about the state of the dead, WHILE they are dead? Now when the dead are resurrected, then they will remember ALL that they have done. And look at what God AGAIN tells us He will judge them on. Will it be their 'faith'? No! It will be based upon those things that they did when they were alive. That is why there will be MANY that will be arguing with God over what they "thought" was the right thing to do to allow them enterance into His kingdom. But God tells them, "...depart from me, ye that work iniquity..." Over and over again, God tells us He will judge us based upon, deeds/actions/works! Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?" .

. From what I am reading, you do not believe we have a spirit. Am I correct? Have you not also read what Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." I have noticed that you have been asked more then once to clarify your stance. Would you please do this? What exactly do you believe happens once a person in Christ dies? To be honest, I cannot follow your first post. I do not believe that anyone would say that Christ was not the first to be raised from the dead. I would also dare say that using a "story" to make solid doctrine from is wrong. Parables were made to cause people to look for the truth, not to be truth. Please, back your stance with scripture. God's word tells us when we die we know nothing. Not just those that die in Christ but EVERYBODY! Eccl.9 [5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. [10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. 2 Cor.5 [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. And WHEN are we present with the Lord? Let's read.... [10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. We will be with the Lord when we are judged. Also note this judgment is based, "...according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.", on our deeds/actions/works! Let's read what Paul tells us about the saints of old; Heb.11 [39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: [40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. And what was this perfection they did not receive? Their perfect spirit bodies. Their eternal bodies is what they did not receive. Paul goes on to say that they would NOT be made perfect without him. So even though these all died in faith, they did NOT receive perfection BEFORE Paul. Why? Because ALL will receive their immortal bodies at the same time; 1 Cor.15 [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Now if NONE have received their spirit bodies, Jesus claim of being the first born of many brotheren would make sense. Why? Paul already told us. NONE of the saints of old have been given the promise of eternal life. Jesus has been the ONLY person, born of flesh and blood, died, and was given an eternal spirit body! And concerning the story of Lazarus; it was just that....a story, a parable to give people a view of what hell WILL be like. Again I ask, "To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die?" .

to whom are you asking that question? To Eccl12v13 - the question about Lazarus makes me question whether it is the afterlife of the person or the soul. The person does not have a spirit body at death the soul/spirit returns to the Father. I merely need clarification. Man is made of ONLY (2) substances; the dust of the earth and the breath of life from God. When man dies his body returns to being dust and the breath that was put into man returns to the one that gave it to man, God. God did not put a soul into man....man, the (2) parts together, ARE a soul! To those that believe the soul returns to that Father after death, would that be ALL souls that die? The story of Lazarus was just that. A story, a parable, to show a point. .

Jesus Christ is the ONLY, “…First born from the dead.”! Do you have anything to say about the above topic? .

Do you have anything to say about the topic? Jesus Christ being the first born of many brotheren? .

There are some that believe those that die in “good favor” or die with a “good report“ immediately go to be with God at the moment of their death. To them I have this question, “Just how did that work out for Lazarus, or any of the saints who died with a “good report?” Let’s think about it for a moment and ask ourselves…”Does this make any sense?” Lazarus was born flesh and blood, BUT....... When he died he received the promise of eternal life and became a "spirit being"; something he HAD to become to be in the presence of God, “…Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption…” THEN...... God put him BACK into a corruptible flesh and blood body to bring him back to life, to live hear on earth just to die AGAIN, THEN....... God gave him BACK the promise of eternal life and He went back to being a "spirit being" in a perfect spirit body when he died the SECOND time? Think about it…..would God take a corruptible body…..then give that same person a perfect “eternal spirit” body when they died….then when He brought them from the dead put them BACK into a corruptible body to die AGAIN…..just to be made perfect again at their SECOND death? Does that make sense? No it does not! And seeing that there were others that were raised from the dead BEFORE Lazarus, even in the OT, how is it that the scriptures says that Christ is the firstborn from the dead? Let’s read it….. Rom.8 [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Col.1 [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. It would seem that whoever was the first that was ‘first’ raised from the dead should claim that title before Christ. Yet the scriptures says that Christ was the first born from the dead! Is this scripture a LIE? Something just does not add up here……….UNLESS…….. Could Christ’s resurrection have been DIFFERENT from ALL of those others that was raised from the dead and died with a good report? Jesus resurrection HAD to be different!!!!! That’s why He, and He alone, holds the title of “Firstborn from the dead”! What was the promise that was made to the saints? Tit.1 [2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 1 John 2 [25] And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. The promise was NOT; being born, dying, being raised from the dead and given a “temporary” spirit body, then dying again….and then given an eternal spirit body! The promise is eternal life. NEVER ENDING! That requires an eternal spirit body! One that never dies, nor is it taken away and given back at another time! Now according to Paul have ANY saints received God's promise of eternal life? Heb.11 [39] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: [40] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect Now let’s understand just what it is Paul is saying here! Not ONE of the saints NOR prophets that died BEFORE Paul had yet received the promise of eternal life! NONE of them had been made perfect with a spirit body! And then we have the “Other” scripture that will try to be used to get loved ones with the Lord after their death… 2 Cor.5 [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Now why is it no one ever reads a few verses down? WHEN will we be present with the Lord? Let’s read it… [10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. God’s word tell us we ALL must appear before the judgment seat. Now does that happen in a corruptible body? NO! That happens when we have a perfect body! And when will ALL become perfect or incorruptible (not capable of DYING)? When will ALL that are found worthy to be raised in the first resurrection receive God’s promise of eternal life? All will receive perfection at the same time….just as Paul said; “…that they without us should not be made perfect.” Let’s read it…… 1 Cor.15 [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Death was NOT swallowed up or ended when Lazarus or ANY others were brought back to life, for ALL of them had to die again. Nor were any that died with a good report given an eternal, incorruptible, immortal, perfect spirit body upon their death. But when Jesus was raised from the dead he was given a "spirit body", an “immortal body”, an “incorruptible body”, an “eternal body”, one that would NOT return to being flesh and blood! Jesus received something NO other flesh and blood body has EVER received after they died!!! This is why the scriptures are correct when they say; Rom.8 [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Col.1 [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. God’s words CANNOT lie! Jesus resurrection WAS different!!! There will be a time when ALL that are counted worthy will receive God’s promise of eternal life. And it will be at the time both Job and Paul spoke; Job 14 [13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job knew that his body had to be changed. And he also knew that change would NOT happen at his death. [15] Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. Now let's read when Job's change will come.... “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Cor.15:52 When the LAST trumpet sounds those found worthy to be apart of the first resurrection will receive their long awaited promise of eternal life, for their change will have come! But for now, there is only one that has been born flesh and blood, was raised from the grave and received their change; an eternal spirit body! JESUS CHRIST.......the ONLY "FIRST BORN from the dead"!!!! .

Being a Gentile or not has nothing to do with salvation. Let's read who it was that was delivered from Egypt and let's read how God veiwed them all. Exod.12 [37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. [38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. So it was not just the nation of Israel that was delivered...there were other nations that departed Egypt along with the Israelites. Now let's read if God gave these "mixed multitude" of people a different set of laws to keep than what He gave the Israelites. Exod.12 [48] And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. [49] One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Num.15 [15] One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. [16] One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you. So there was one law for ALL that choose to follow the true and living God. Let's continue.... [27] And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. [28] And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. [29] Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. Even for the forgiveness of sins was there ONE LAW for all. It didn't matter what nation you were from. According to God a sin is a sin, and what it takes to forgive sin, it takes the samething for ALL! And was there a different punishment if one was not of the nation of Israel? Let's read... [30] But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. So the person, ANY PERSON, that wilfully sinned were put to death; whether they were a stranger or an Israelite. Sounds fair to me. Let’s read if this changed AFTER Jesus came and shed His blood. Heb.10 [26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. So God does not have (2) standards. Whatever it took for the nation of Israel..it took the same for ANY stranger...whether they were a Gentile or from another nation of people. The punishment for sin did NOT change after the shedding of Jesus Blood. Now if the punishment remained the same, why would God change the requirement for salvation? He wouldn't! Now let's confirm this. Let's see if those that died BEFORE Christ came to shed His blood had to do something different for salvation from those that came AFTER Christ shed His blood. Ezek.18 [20] The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Now we know what a sinner is. It is one that breaks the laws of God, which, according to God's inspired word, ALL have done. And the scriptures says he that sinneth shall die. Understand the death spoken of here is the second death., for everyone must die the first death. Now let's read what happens if the sinner, not just one from the nation of Israel, but ANY sinner turns from his ways, and stops breaking God's laws, or stop sinning; [21] But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. [22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Notice God did not say if just one from the nation of Israel stopped sinning he shall live. God's word simple says, "...if the WICKED will turn from his sins...."! That would include those of the nation of Israel, those of the nation of Gentiles, or those from ANY other nation of people! Now....does the wicked today, even AFTER the shedding of Jesus blood, have to STOP sinning for salvation? Or can they continue therein and YET receive the reward of eternal life? What it took then and what it takes now for salvation is the SAME for EVERYONE; Israelite, Gentile, or ANY other nation of people! "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." .

Where in God's word does it state that Abraham was a Gentile? How can Abraham, who was also called a Hebrew, ALSO be a Gentile? A Gentile is NOT anyone other that an Israelite. A Gentile is a nation of people just as the Israelites are a nation of people. Gentiles come from the seed of Japheth, while Abraham comes from the seed of Shem. .

t AGain, the problem is how you handle the text. You isolate texts as if they contain all the necessary information and you ignore huge portions of the Bible. Salvation in the Bible, is used 5 different ways. Not every use of the word "salvation" refers to salvation from sin. "Salvatoin" can refer to, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation. Sometimes all you need is one verse. Consider the following, "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Now there are other verses that states sin is this and sin is that..but the above verse is the ONLY verse you need to know what sin is. Now let's read again what God tells us in needed for ETERNAL SALVATION. Not salvation from sin, healing, deliverance, security, restoration and preservation....but ETERNAL SALVATION! God's word's says that ETERNAL SALVATION comes to those that OBEY Him! Heb.5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Now the ONLY salvation anyone should be concerned with is ETERNAL SALVATION! Because once you have that.....does anything else really matter? It's the last salvation given...salvation from God's lake of fire! And the salvation spoken of above is just that; ETERNAL SALVATION! And God, not me, tells us that this eternal salvation is given to ALL that obey Him. God is our master and WE are His servants. And what do servants do? They OBEY their master! You cannot serve with faith...you serve with action, works and deeds! "For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant." Now you do not have to believe God's word that eternal salvation is given to all that obey. But you also cannot ignore that this verse is in God's bible. So do we just ignore this verse because we have 50 others that says something else? No! Just as there are other verses that tell us what sin is we still have this little verse that says; ""Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So....God's word says ETERNAL SALVATION is for all that obey Him. Either you agree with Godf's words or you do not. You do have a choice! I'm going with the word of God on this one! I choose to OBEY HIM! . . .

Rev.20 [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. If ALL of these are unbelievers then NONE of their names should be found in God's books. But God's word tells us that AFTER the books are open "...WHOSOEVER...", was not found in the book was cast into the lake of fire. This lets us know that SOME of these that will be judged will NOT be cast into the lake of fire. According to your line of thinking there should be NO NAMES in God's books. But that cannot be the case, because the books are opened and read. .

Let's read what God's word says brings about salvation; Heb.5 [8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; [9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; From Gen. to Rev., God has asked man to obey His laws. Those that obey will receive salvation. Those that do not will receive the lake of fire. Would it make any sense that God would reward those that do NOT keep His laws with eternal salvation within His kingdom? No! .

Which? There are a lot of quotes on some of these post. Hard to follow which is which and who is asking who a question! This post. So its about letting the Seed of the word of God grow and prudence fruit. All a person has to do is hold on to it and let it grow. Holding on by the strictest definition is a work but in this sense it is the difference of keeping a gift or throwing it away, or allowing it to be stolen. So can you lose your salvation? Well according to this yes, it can be stolen or choked out. You can choose not to let it grow. Now if you hold on and let it bear fruit then you are saved. Again we do not work for salvation. We are given it. We can give it up. We can lost it by letting the world crowd it out. We do need to work out the salvation by fighting off thieves, and holding tight to it. So in that respect we do work and work out our salvation. For faith with out works is dead. However, its not the works that saves us, its the faith. You see, Jesus says its being born of the spirit that saves us. So look at it this way. No one can work to be born. We are given life. It is up to us to keep it. We need to feed ourselves, and grow and learn, and protect ourselves. But yet it is no work of ours that makes us be born. There is no way for us to "Work" our way to life. Until we are born of the spirit we cannot live, we can not be saved and we can not be changed into a new creature. Once we are given the gift of salvation we are then Born. Just like any child that is Born of the flesh, a person born of the spirit can lose that life. However that life is in and of itself is a gift. No one is saved by works. They are saved by grace through faith. They need to then work to keep their faith alive. People seem to be confused thinking that they have to work to become alive. This is simply not possible, nor is is biblical. To make it fit with the Word you must do violence to it and take things out of context and ignore the rest of the chapter and book in which each verse is taken, not to mention the rest of the Bible. This verse sums it up. We were dead, he made us alive, we can not work our way to alive from dead. That is impossible. You can work yourselves to death however, that is possible. Are you kidding me? WHICH quote above would you like me to reply to? .

Which? There are a lot of quotes on some of these post. Hard to follow which is which and who is asking who a question!

Let's now read how God tells us to study His word; Isa.28 [10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Topic with topic. Line upon line. Searching the scriptures here and there. Luke 4 [4] And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Using EVERY WORD of God. That means, Gen. to Rev. Acts 24 [14] But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Doing as Paul, and believing ALL THINGS written in the law and the prophets, Old AND New Testaments. 2 Tim.3 [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Knowing that the same scriptures that we read in the OT are able to give salvation through faith in Jesus Christ. 1 Thes.5 [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Proving all things. 2 Tim.4 [5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. Make FULL proof of thy ministry 2 Tim.3 [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. And finally using ALL of the inspired words of God for ALL of our doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction. .

Romans 7 [7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. So is Paul saying here that God’s laws are bad? No he is not. As a matter of fact it is by God’s laws he knows what sin is. He knows to obey and keep God’s law of NOT to covet. So could ‘Do not covet’ have been one of God’s laws that were nailed to the cross? Are we no longer required to try to keep this law? Of course not. Let’s read more; [8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. But sin, reasoned by the law, stirred up all sorts of feelings and desires. Again, had I not known that the law said what was sin, sin did not exist. It was dead to me. [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. I did what I wanted without the knowledge of the law, I was alive. But when I found the law, it let me know what sin is; and sin revived. I could no longer do what I wanted, that old man and old lifestyle died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. And the law that gives life eternal, caused death to that sinful man and lifestyle. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. But sin, reasoned by the law, fooled me, and it (sin) would have me die, spiritually. [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. So I now know that God’s law is HOLY, JUST AND GOOD! How can Paul mean that the very thing that can save him if he obeys (And the commandment, which was ordained to life…) has been done away with and nailed to the cross? Then he goes to tell others we are not bound to it? In verse 10 above he tells us what the law does; it, “…was ordained to life…" If anything NOT keeping God's laws is what does not make any sense! [13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Was that which was ordained to life, the law that is holy and just and good, cause me to die spiritually? God forbid. But sin, now that it is known as sin, IT causes me to die spiritually, by that which is good; (“…the commandment, which was ordained to life…” and “…the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”), and now because of the knowledge of God’s laws sin is exceeding sinful. Paul ask the question…”Are the laws that give life, the thing that will cause me to die spiritually?” To which he answers, “No!”. He then tells us now that he knows sin, by the knowledge of God’s laws, is THAT which will cause him to die spiritually. And now that he knows God’s laws, sin is even MORE sinful to him. Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. Do you know what he is saying here? Let's break it down. For that which I do (The things I do), I allow not (I don't want to do them): for what I would (the things I want to do), that I do not (I don't do them); but what I hate (the things I don't want to do), that I do (are the things I do). The above scripture is NOT easy reading! Even for those learned it can be a challenge. Can you imagine babes in the word trying to understand Paul‘s writings? Let’s continue; [16] If then I do that which I would not, (If I do those things I know I should not do), I consent unto the law that it is good. (I agree with the law that it is good). Paul is letting us know that just knowing that he should not do those things that he does not want to do, lets him know that God’s laws are the right thing to do and they are good. [17] Now it is no more I that do it,(But it’s not me that do those things, nor do I even what to do them), but sin that dwelleth in me. (But it is the pressure of sin. It is the temptation of sin.) Paul tells us he does not want to do that which is wrong…but it is sin and the temptation of sin that makes him give in. [18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: (I know my flesh is weak), for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. (I have the will, but I cannot find the way to do good). [19] For the good that I would I do not: (I want to do good but I don’t do it): but the evil which I would not, that I do. (But the bad things I don’t want to do are the things I do.) Paul is telling us that he wants to do that which is good, but it seems to be those things that are bad is what he does. [20] Now if I do that I would not, (Again, if I do those things I don’t want to do.) it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.(It is not me, but the sin within me, it is the temptation within.) Now let’s read what it is that keeps Paul in check and causes him to beat himself up, sort to speak. [21] I find a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.(I now have a law, that when I want to do good, right away the law of sin is present.) Paul tells us that whenever he tries to keep God’s laws, the laws of sin is right there tempting him to do that which is evil. Paul is telling us that this is the struggle that happens with. Let’s confirm… [22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Paul tell us he delights in God’s law, which is in his mind…when he is thinking about it. And which laws is it that is in Paul’s inward man? Let’s read it… Heb.10 [16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; The laws that God said would be in the new covenant are those that Paul delights in. And these are the same laws that were in the old covenant; do not steal, do not murder, do not lie, do not covet. These are the laws that come to mind whenever Paul tries to do that which is good. But is there another law that comes to Paul’s mind when he delights in the laws of God? Let’s read…. [23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Paul tells us that the moment he delights in the laws of God…there enters ‘ANOTHER’ law that he struggles with. And this law wars against the law of God that he delights in. And what is this law that wars with the laws of God? They are the sin laws that tell Paul TO Sin, TO Murder, TO Lie, TO Steal and TO Covet! And it is this law of sin that wars with the laws of God that brings him to the captivity of sin within his body. [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. So which law is it that Paul is trying to keep? The laws of God! And WHAT did Paul tell us these laws would do? “…And the commandment, which was ordained to life…” Paul tells us that God’s laws were ordained to LIFE! Paul tells us that God’s laws are, “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” And with all of what we have just read above, you have Paul TELLING OTHERS to keep God’s laws! As I have said before…..Paul speaks of TWO sets of laws in his writings: There is the one set of laws that we just read about above. The above set of laws are those that Paul keeps, tells others to keep and he calls them, holy, just, good and are ordained to life. Then there is the other set of laws that Paul speaks of that God never liked, that could not make the comers there unto perfect, thus were against us, that required deeds and works, and was only to be around until, “…the seed should come…”! It is THIS set of laws we are no longer under! At NO point does God EVER say that just because we cannot keep His laws perfectly, we are NOT supposed to try to keep them at all. .

I know when I am doing what is needed when I get that same warring within that Paul got whenever his mind was on the delight of the law of the Lord. "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." I know if that war between the laws of God and the laws of sin were to ever stop, then I have fallen off course. Satan comes after those that are DOING God's will! My anchor is trusting in God's word! I trust that God will be a fair judge. I trust that God knows my intentions! I trust that God will be merciful! I trust God's word that tells me if I keep His commandments that doing so will give me eternal life! Deut.7 [9] Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; 1 Kings 8 [61] Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day. Neh.1 [5] And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments: 1 John 2 [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Rom.7 [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Rev.22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." From Gen. to Rev. God has asked man only ONE thing; TO OBEY AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS!! .

Thanks for reading this lesson and I will say that I understand what you mean about David not being the nation of Israel's king, as that job has already been taken by the King of Kings! God does say that he will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel! Here are 2 more verses to add to what you have said about the Glory of God being a physical brightness; Dan.12 [2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. [3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Just as Moses started to take on the physical properties of God after being in His presence for 40 days, so will all that are raised have that same brightness! . Again, thanks for reading. I pray it was helpful! But be warned....most of my lessons are not well received. You may not want to be in my camp for too long! .

We all will find out at one of two times; In the first resurrection, which is when Jesus returns to gather the saints and will rule with Him for 1000yrs. Rev.20 [6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. God's word does not say ALL that are not in the first resurrection WILL go into the lake of fire. It says you are blessed because if you are in the first resurrection you have nothing to worry about; for these do not have to worry about the second death, which is the lake of fire. All others have to be judged and that judgement will determine if you will be allowed entrance into God's kingdom. Or at the second resurrection when the names will, or will not, be read from God's books; Rev.20 [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. .

How can you claim what you said above when NOWHERE in God's word tells us that ALL of those that are being judged here WILL go into the lake of fire. Let's read.... Rev. 20 [10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [11] And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. So we have ONLY (3) beings thus far in the lake of fire; Satan, the beast and the false prophet. [12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And now we have books that were opened and the dead was judged based upon what was in those books....according to their works. [13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Again we have the sea and the earth giving up the dead and again the dead were judged according to their works. Now at this point the ONLY judgement that can take place is whether there will be some that will dwell in God's kingdom, or if there will be some that dwell in the lake of fire! These are the ONLY two choices. Either you are IN God's kingdom or you are NOT! There is nothing inbetween! There is no stages in God's lake of fire! There in no chance of parole! [14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. God's word does NOT say ALL were found not written in the book of life! God tells us that WHOSOEVER was not found written in His books were cast into the lake of fire. Now you claim that God's word says ALL were cast into His lake of fire? Where does it say that in God's word? .

As God's word tells us, to answer your question; Rev.22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. I cannot tell you in my own words. I can only tell you what God tells us will allow entrance into His kingdom. God, not me, tells us that keeping His commandments is what is needed for salvation? Because there are only TWO choices; life in God's kingdom, which is salvation from the second choice. Or life in the lake of fire! Do you not agree? . .