slowpoke55

LOL - naive atheists always resort to silly acts of desperation. Hitler was no more a Christian than you are a Christian. Try to keep up. National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. ~ Adolf Hitler God has told me via His word--God always tells the truth no matter how bitter--where does that leave you? That Hitler claimed to be a Christian is a fact, That he hated Marxism was another fact. I never claimed to be a Christian and see that as probable as getting a sex change. So, when you say reality and fact, you don't mean a physical reality or material fact, you just mean words or concepts. That's a compelling argument for hell you have.

What do you consider God's law. The Ten Commandments, Leviticus? A couple of quotes from Hitler. And how do you establish as a fact that there is an afterlife or a hell?

Have you broken God's law? Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot broke many of God's laws and the results are well known. Being a law unto yourself does not excuse you from the penalty of breaking God’s law. That’s reality. Wow! How did we get from traffic laws to God's laws to 3 dictators (at least one of them was a Christian)? Is that the depth of your defense for establishing God's law - simply assert that it exists and that it's reality. If you say it enough times, does it become true? Should I simply accept such unsupported assertions? Also, please don't threaten me with an eternal life in hell simply because I'm a non-believer. Fear may work on children but it doesn't work on me. Plus it really makes your version of God appear to be a very shallow soul. I would hope other Christians here would call you out on the carpet about this. Our general standards of behavior are influenced by society but they evolve as society evolves. For example, attitudes on slavery and divorced women have changed greatly since biblical times. As individuals we operate within that general framework but are free to accept or reject these. On individual terms we set our own standards.

God has given man freewill to choose to do right or choose to do wrong—be careful how you choose. Eternal separation from God is a long time... There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Self-explanatory. Good to know that you agree that people don't need to consult an "ultimate authority on everything" to make decisions in our everyday life. As noted – God gives us freewill and the truism remains… There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. ‘one who ignores laws or rules; one who sets one's own standards of behavior’ Oh, ok. I sometimes break laws and in certain cases I ignore rules. Examples, I often drive faster than the speed limit but I try to do it safely and keep plenty of space around me, Also, I may not stop completely at at a stop sign. I often ignore accepted photography rules when I'm taking photos with my point and shoot camera. I like my photos under exposed. One of my favorite artists is Picasso, who broke a lot of rules but is considered a genius for it. I can also appreciate another rule breaker, the notorious Marcel Duchamp. I set my own standards of behavior. I find most people around me (even Christians, if you can believe that) a little to soft and willing to fudge the truth too much.

God has given man freewill to choose to do right or choose to do wrong—be careful how you choose. Eternal separation from God is a long time... There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Self-explanatory. Good to know that you agree that people don't need to consult an "ultimate authority on everything" to make decisions in our everyday life. I'm asking for clarification because "law unto yourself" is too general. Please explain what you mean and put it in a context.

In your world who is the "ultimate authority of everything"? For me, there is no ultimate authority on everything. Are you a law unto yourself? Does this mean that you concede that we can make decisions in our lives without consulting an "ultimate authority of everything" Now, what do you mean by "law unto yourself"?

God is the author of morality. But is God subject to his own morality?

In your world who is the "ultimate authority of everything"? For me, there is no ultimate authority on everything. When I cook, I consult a recipe either memorized or in written form. When I want to learn how to play a song on my guitar, I consult a music book. When I want to learn about history, I consult a history book. When I get a toothache, I go see a dentist. When I want to buy some running shoes, I go to the store and let my feet determine what shoes feel best - not the shoe sales person. When I need gas, I check my phone app to see who has the lowest price. When my computer is acting sluggish, I use my technical knowledge to resolve it When I want to learn about the universe, I consult a science book. When I need my car fixed I consult a reputable mechanic. When I need tires, I usually buy the same tires that I currently have because they have shown to last a long time and perform well in wet conditions. When I buy clothes though, I don't consult GQ or Esquire though. I prefer to look plain.

But doesn’t the universe follow general relativity (non-quantum)? If that would be sufficient, why do you think physicists are looking for something more general than general relativity? Ciao - viole You miss the point - I am simply pointing out that the evidence thus far indicates the universe has not existed forever - a concept the Bible has taught for thousands of years. It's fascinating how desperately some people try to validate the creationist stories with science yet when science contradicts these, they are quick to reject science. The Bible does not teach anything about the universe. It tells a story with vast generalities that are often wrong. Genesis fails from the start by stating that heaven and earth were formed first and then the sun. Science says the sun formed first and then the earth. Another thing it gets wrong is that it states the moon is a light. The moon is reflecting light it is not emitting it.

I hope we don't all come off that way... No. Some do though. Quite a while back I read W.L. Craig's defense of the genocide of the Canaanites which more or less claims God is beyond morality.

When one claims a deity as the ultimate authority of everything, then it's fruitless to expect valid logic to apply it, let alone absolutes.

FresnoJoe You have an interesting posting style. Understand that I am a non-believer who views the Bible as a book that is largely mythological. I have no problem accepting that there was a historical figure who inspired the legend of Jesus Christ but anything supernatural is the product of creative minds attempting to codify an ideology. Thus. there's a tremendous chasm between our beliefs and your response to get me to your side essentially equates to "jump, trust this book". I do look up the some of the passages you reference but I get the same thing I usually get - this is a human invention. It would be more helpful if you provided some transitions in your own words from what I post to the quotes you chose, otherwise you leave it up to me to fill in the blanks.

Pahu, I've read through some of this thread and in almost every post of yours I shake my head at the lack of knowledge shown even in the most elementary aspects of sciences. Examples: No, you don't get off the hook because they're from Brown's book. You're posting them and should take responsibility for them. On a brighter note. it's good to see others here also think Brown's book is garbage.

To some it would be. To most of my athiest friends they don't find this troublesome because they don't feel the presence of God. If they did feel his/her presence i don't see them haveing any problem with that. Cue seek and you shall find text. I don't find the concept of an omniscient god of mercy and judgement troublesome because as children (and for some of us as adults) that's what our parents appear to be. The the god component is parental at it's core and has been extended to a Platonic Form.