Hansc

I think it depends on exactly what you are talking about. Various denominations have different views on some key elements of doctrine, e.g. the TULIP debates, however individuals on both sides of the debate can be sincere Christians who are born again. The key question is "Have you received Christ as your Lord and Savior?"    

Lots of good feedback, I just saw on my FB newsfeed that in addition to MacArthur, John Piper and several others are now denouncing the film. A few thoughts, the boy didn't say that everyone had wings, only that SOME angels did. It also was not a NDE, because none of his vital signs ever stopped.  Paul and John both had experiences of heaven that were also NOT NDEs.  I think some of the arguments from some of the ministries attacking this boy's account are silly at best.

For example:

1. Some claim that it cannot be real because a person CANNOT experience heaven before death:

really?, would it be too hard for God to do that if he wanted?

2. Another ministry attacked the film because it showed animals in heaven and they claimed that there were NO animals in heaven:

that's just ignorant, the Bible clearly says that Jesus has a horse in heaven, as do the rest of the armies of heaven.

3. Another ministry attacked the film because it showed people awake and aware in heaven, they claimed that people are still asleep:

soul sleep is a serious misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches.

4. Still another ministry denounced it as heresy because the boy's sister in heaven still had no given name: 

If Jesus wants to wait and allow the mother and father to name her, He can do so if He wants to. 

5. Another denounced it as false because the Bible says it is given to men to only die ONCE:

While it is generally true that people only die once, God can override general rules if He wants.

There are countless examples in the Bible were God overrides general rules. God is NOT limited by general guidelines.

6. Another claimed that the boy and his family were in on the deception only for the MONEY 

On a side thought, Lazarus died under the Old Covenant, prior to the resurrection. That's real different, but probably another thread.  

I find it sad that so many of the "book-learned" need to attack something simply because it is a more dramatic experience than they have ever had.  

Bopeep, what is your take on the film? 

Thanks OtherOne, I saw it last night with a group from a Bible study I attend, I thought it was pretty good.  However, when I got home I saw on my FB news feed that John MacArthur really tore into it calling it evil.

LadyC Thanks for the feedback, I think the kid was being honest too.   

Another way of framing the discussion:

 

(GOD IS strong enough to save everyone) + (GOD DOES NOT want to save everyone) = Everyone IS NOT saved

 

(GOD IS NOT strong enough to save everyone) + (GOD DOES want to save everyone) = Everyone IS NOT saved 

 

(GOD IS strong enough to save everyone) + (GOD DOES want to save everyone) = Everyone IS saved

The problem with this view is that it denies the freedom of decision that God gives to people. Yes, He is strong enough and Yes He wants all to be saved, but will not force Himself on anyone. This as "framed" leaves no room for a person to receive Christ by an act of faith.   

It's been a while since I've been here, life has been extremely busy. Just to express myself again:

I believe that Jesus is the uncreated, Creator who came to redeem His creation on the cross and in that process died and rose again on the third day.  

Is Water Baptism Essential to Salvation?

To fulfill part of all that is righteous as Jesus said to John the Baptist prior to His baptism. This act and all acts of obedience demonstrate the desire which the Lord puts in the believer's heart to obey and to do(Phil 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.) John the Apostle said in 1 John 2:28-29 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. Obedience should be the desire of the heart for all Christians and is why Paul and others kept telling us to examine ourselves that we be in the faith. This passage here in 1 John tells us why it is important, that we be not ashamed at Jesus coming.

Must a person be baptized to be saved?

No, but if one willfully reject the first thing a believer should do without very good cause, that is no demonstration of a surrender heart. We can see in the NT days it was done speedily to new converts but I believe scripture plainly teaches that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness(remission). It says nothing of water baptism being a requirement. This is as good an example as any of which there are several which tells us how saints are cleansed: Rev 7:13-14 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

What is your understanding of this matter?

Why do you believe as you do?

The answers above state my convictions.

Allofgrace, I really liked your answer and the insight you gave. I think you really hit the nail on the head. Thanks for your thoughtful answer.

I think there have been several really good answers and these help me formulate my own responses when people ask me things along these lines. So thanks for your thoughtful responses.

Is Water Baptism Essential to Salvation?

Must a person be baptized to be saved?

What is your understanding of this matter?

Why do you believe as you do?

(In case any wonder, my position is that water baptism is NOT essential to salvation. While I believe people should be baptized, their salvation is not determined by, nor dependent upon baptism.)

Redroses, you asked if we are aware on the "other side."

Consider:

Philippians 1:21

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain

Paul said for him to die is GAIN. Losing the awareness of the presence of Christ is not a GAIN, actually it's a loss. Some may say, that it's a temporary loss, doesn't matter, holding to the view that we sleep upon the death of the body translates into a loss.

Paul rejected this and said that to leave the body was a GAIN, not a loss.

When we depart the body, we go to be with Christ, that's what Paul said. It is far better and it is a gain.

Some people believe that when we die we are dead like a cow, that’s silly, that’s no gain. Other’s think that we just float around or are absorbed into the universe, that’s no gain either.

According to Paul to depart from the body is:

1.) FAR BETTER

2.) GAIN

3.)TO BE WITH CHRIST

The unscriptural doctrine of "Soul sleep" violates all of this. God has given us His Word to understand these things, let's go by what the Word says. To die in Christ is gain.

II Corinthians 5:8

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Scripture tells us to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, that’s better than better.

Philippians 1:22

But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

I shall choose…

This is kind of an amazing passage. Paul says, he hadn’t decided yet. Paul is the one making the choice. He didn't say, I’m leaving it in the hand of God. He said, “I don’t know what I shall choose”.

Paul didn’t say, “I’m just praying for God’s will to be done” or “I don’t know what God is going to choose for me”. He said, “I don’t know what I will choose”.

God gave the power of choice to Paul. He let Paul call the shot on this one.

Philippians 1:23

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Far better…

Paul is talking about dying, Notice, Paul did not say that when he dies that it would be better for him. He says it would be FAR better, way better, much more better, better than better.

What is meant by FAR BETTER? Well FAR BETTER means better than better.

If upon passing to the other side, Paul slept, then he would be unconscious of God's presence, due to his sleep. Yet, here while in the flesh, Paul said to live is Christ, and that He now is conscious of Christ's indwelling presence.

So, if Paul went to sleep, then he would have to go from an awareness of God's presence in this life to a lack of awareness due to sleep in the next.

That is not "better" much less "far better", or “better than better”. Losing the awareness of God's presence due to "soul sleep" is not "far better", actually, it's less better.

it seems that nobody can give a stright answer on this....if i closed my eyes in death now what would i see on the other side

would i see Jesus or would i be in a state of status

what is on the other side and are we aware

Redroses, in my view, when Christians pass from the body, they go to be with Jesus. There is no such thing as "soul sleep."

gdemoss

It is all about speaking what I hear and trusting it to be the right thing at the right moment for the right person. I am simply a servant who serves from the heart. My hope is that I clearly hear the voice of God that tells me what to say in any situation and not sin or some devil who seeks to persuade me to speak on their behalf. What I say, just like what I shared above, depends wholly upon what God reveals to me as the need in the hearers life.

Once, I was standing before a man and I was told that he was born and raised Catholic. I inquired if it were true and share that God had shared that with me so that we might find common ground to discuss and grow in Christ. It had its intended affect. Afterward, I sat down for break and was led to John 4 where the Spirit bade me to understand what just happened with my encounter with Art. I smiled and studied the passage with a greater joy than ever before.

I spent and hour on the phone today with a recovering alcoholic that has been sober for 2 months this time around. The subject of the bible came up. I was led to say certain things that led to the man becoming inspired to improve his relationship with God and his ability to understand what the bible teaches.

I seek to sanctify the Lord God in my heart that I might be ready an answer to any man that asks the reason of the hope that is within me. Though the context of that verse is about being harmed while doing good, the message is quite clear. The Word of God plus the Spirit of God equals the voice of God within my heart. He and He alone knows what needs to be said at any given time. When a person needs to 'know' that the bible is the Word of God, they need to hear first my declaration of the truth, which is I met Jesus at the well and he told me that the bible was the Word of God, followed by hearing Him for themselves as did the Samaritans who believed upon the word of the woman at the well. The truth is in Jesus. The truth is in me as Jesus is in me.

I think you show good insight and wisdom here and have a solid approach.

As a general guideline, I usually say that I wont talk to a person about Jesus, until I have FIRST talked to Jesus about that person. For me, taking the approach to first talk to the Lord about a person before I talk to the person about the Lord has been a fruitful approach.

I think you also mentioned how we need to be sensitive to the context of the situation. That was one of the reasons I posted the question. I spend much of my time around university professors who are strongly indoctrinated with Marxist ideology. Many of them are also much better versed in Christian beliefs, than is commonly believed. Naturally, with such a crowd, I have to present a pretty solid case as to why I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God and why I believe Jesus is God.

gedmoss, thank you being a nice person and welcoming.

God Bless, you

To add to the discussion, the bible is the innerrant word of God for numerous reasons, (IMO) and the one that sticks out the most to me is that is does not crossover, it stands on it's own and does not need our reasoning. There is so much power in words, and the power of the words that God spoken is stronger than one can even imagine. Not only has God showed me the truths but also His word withstands, seeing the prophecy unfold and the glory and power that it gives is undeniable. God is good!

Good point, that this is your opinion. It seems that at times people take exception that this belief is a person's opinion. Not to be misunderstood, it is also my opinion that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. We share this same measured and considered opinion.

Let me expand just a touch on my position.

I believe the Word of God is alive and has an indwelling anointing. It is not just an accurate record of what was said, but an ongoing Word of God speaking to us now. If the roof on my room blew off and a host of angelic trumpets blasted and God spoke to me in an audible voice, that would no more be the voice of God, than the written Word of God.

It is my opinion, that one of the chief purposes of the written Word of God, is to reveal and unveil Jesus, the living Word of God. The written Word and living Word are connected together. Faith in the written Word of God, unveils the power of the Living Word. I treat the written Word, as if, God were audibly speaking to me from heaven.

gdemoss

First let me state that I received your confession of faith, that Jesus is Lord, and found it to be clear.

Thank you gdemoss, yes, Jesus is my Lord. I think you have a real good spirit about you and offer some clear and insightful comments.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm on Christmas break from school and will go back in about a week. When school starts I am really busy so have a limited amount of time to discuss matters online. Because I teach in a very liberal secular university, people are often surprised that I am a Christian. Many of my fellow professors are often hostile to the Christian faith. Consequently, I am often asked to defend my belief in Christ.

Two of the most common questions I am asked are: Who is Jesus and Why do you believe the Bible is God's Word.

I posted these two questions because it is what I am most often asked.

I did want to comment a little more on the rest of your post which I thought was excellent, but I have to run. I'll be back.

ToS :Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29)

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

--Please remember to be kind. The subject is not geared towards one's salvation rather the position of why YOU believe the bible is the inerrant word of God. We ask questions to further our understanding, I ask that you please respect this. Were all learning.

God bless

Thank you Jacob. I think you bring a lot of common sense and good advice to the discussion.

Brother Mike

I did not judge

Yes, you did exactly that, you were very quick to cast stones.

I got baptized in Christ as a baby

Have you gotten baptized again as an adult? Have you made an open declaration of faith via baptism as an adult? If you haven't yet gotten baptized as an adult, you should do so.

The answer was Jesus,. . . The answer was not Christ.

You think that it is wrong to say Christ has made me free?

Paul uses that expression.

Galatians 5:1

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free,

Saying that Christ has set me free is NOT wrong.

Referring to Jesus as Christ is NOT wrong, as we can see from the Word of God. If you think the answer is NOT Christ then you are wrong.

You gave your life to Christ. What Christ would that be,. . ?

Romans 14:9

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

What Christ would that be?? The same Christ that Paul refereed to in Romans 14:9.

While I realize that it is more common to use the full expression Jesus Christ my Lord, at the same time, Paul also at times simply said Christ as a reference to Jesus.

To claim that Christ is NOT a proper reference to Jesus is biblically false

In part I trust the bible to be from God because it delivers stories in full light even with negative insights into righteous people. I think if men wrote the scriptures by their own devices they would have omitted much of their own shortcomings Also the Bible delivers many prophecies fulfilled and a type of life to live that is ideal as represented by God Himself in Jesus Christ.

I agree with Gdemoss that God convinces me the bible is His Word.

Thank you Ninhao, I think you are right about that lack of omitting shortcomings.

Why do I believe the bible is the Word of God?

Because God led me to believe that it is.

I think that everybody who believes the Bible is the inerrant Word of God has been lead to that belief by the Spirit of God.

One of the reasons I asked this was that I teach school in a very secular and very liberal environment and it is uncommon to find other teachers and students who believe the Bible is the Word of God as I do. I have meet some but they are few and far between. Mostly, I end up fielding questions about why I believe the Bible is God's Word. I also just as frequently am asked why I believe that Jesus is the only means of salvation.

Because I am asked this a lot, I was curious as to how other Christians answer these same questions. I also asked because I have found that many Christians don't actually know why they believe the Bible is the Word of God. I think that sometimes praying about it and thinking it over can help a Christian to a better understanding of why the Bible is the Word of God and thereby lead to a more solid foundation of faith.

Brother Mike.

Only one answer to who Jesus should be to any person who is born again.

Mike, you are much too quick to pass judgment,. The question in the OP is why people believe the Bible is the Word of God. I often have to answer this for lost people and was curious as to how others answer that question. It was really that simple. Maybe you have had bad experience with trolls, but I was pretty open and honest.

Hansc could not say that

Mike if you look back and read over it again, I clearly upon asking said that I have received Christ as Lord.

However, you claim I didn't say that.

To even dodge around that makes one sad,

Who dodged, I answered pretty clearly. What I said was:

1. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God.

2. Jesus is the Uncreated Creator

3. I have received Christ as Lord via a confession of Faith.

Yet to you that makes me an unbeliever?

for he is not saved, nor does he know the Lord.

You are not my judge, Christ is my Lord and Judge. He has not given you the right to judge other Christians in this manner.

To be real honest, your accusations against me are false and not from God. That is the truth, and God will bear me witness to that.

Shiloh

Tons of them. There are many people who assent to the truth of Scripture but never receive that truth.

Okay, I'll accept what you're saying at face value. How would you know online if someone has merely assented to the truth but not actually received the truth?

What we have found is there are people who say a lot of "religious" things on this board and they try to talk the Christian lingo, but cannot declare that Jesus is their Lord and their God.

Okay, then I can understand your concern.

They obfuscate and try to evade the question or give vague answers

and yours have been rather vague.

When asked what I believe about the Bible, I said:

1. the Bible is the inerrant Word of God,

When asked who I believe Jesus is, I said:

2. Jesus is the Uncreated Creator.

I don't think those are vague statements. I think they are pretty clear and leave little if any wiggle room.

Often when we encount an authentic follower of Jesus, and we ask them who Jesus is, they immediately declare Him as Lord and Savior of their lives.

​I understand, but if they say something like Jesus is God, or the Lamb of God, or Lion of Judah, do you put them on your suspicious person list?

You, on the other hand have not done that, and that is why you are questioned.

Now that I have done that, are things cleared up?

One Light

]For a teacher, you must know that is a very vague answer. Perhaps if I tighten the question a little more, you will answer it more specifically?

Have you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

​I told you that I believe:

1. the Bible is the inerrant Word of God,

2. Jesus is the Uncreated Creator.

You think those are unclear statements?

Have you ever meet anybody who held to those beliefs that was not a Christian? Maybe there are some out there but I haven't meet them.

Anyway, in case you are still unclear.

Yes, I have received Christ as Lord via a confession of faith.

Hopefully, that clears up any lingering doubts you may have had.

Hans, do you believe the Bible is the inspired, living, breathing Word of God?

Who is Jesus in your life? Have you surrendered your life to Him?

Fez, maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to approach me with the assumptive that I'm maybe not a Christian.

Why would you do that?

Why would you take such an initial stance in an opening dialogue?

It could very well be that through all your questions, you personally have never stated your stance of who you believe Jesus is or if you believe the bible. Perhaps it is time for your own confession of faith.

Who do you believe Jesus is?

Do you believe the bible is the word of God?

1 Peter 3:14-16

But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you are blessed. “And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.” But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed.

Fair enough.

For the Bible, I frequently say that it is the inerrant Word of God.

For who Jesus is, what I say depends on who and in what context they are asking. There are a lot of right answers. One I commonly use and like is that "He is the Uncreated Creator." I think that covers a lot of bases and presents a clear statement of how the Scriptures present Him.

I believe the Bible to be the Word of God, absolutely. It has proven itself for thousands of years to be true. No believer doubts God's Word.

It has proven itself for thousands of years to be true.

I think this is a good start on a statement as to why a person believes the Bible is the Word of God.

Hans, do you believe the Bible is the inspired, living, breathing Word of God?

Who is Jesus in your life? Have you surrendered your life to Him?

Fez, maybe I'm wrong, but you seem to approach me with the assumptive that I'm maybe not a Christian.

Why would you do that?

Why would you take such an initial stance in an opening dialogue?

Because The Holy Ghost Speaks

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:15-17

Deep Into My Heart

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

Come Child, Come

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

How does this not default into simply saying that I believe the Bible is the Word of God because the Bible says it is the Word of God?