Enoc

I keep trying to convince my younger bother that the US Dollar wil soon collapse, because the Dollar was once back by Silver and Gold and I seriously doubt that we have any precious metal reserve left, also, we have a false economy, Washington is hiding the true picture of the recession and the economy. No Country in the world wants to trade in Dollars. It would surprise me is the Dollar would collapse before 2016 or before.

It doesn't matter if the dollar is backed by gold or not. It has a value we place on it for any product or service. It's nowhere near collapsing.

It does matter what it is backed by. Otherwise it's just a piece of paper and represents nothing other than...well, paper and someone telling you it has value (what a gimmick, huh?) The dollar is currently backed by OPEC oil. Many peoples and nations benefit from the current system. However, we can borrow(from the private Fed)/print (our treasury prints it) as much as we'd like, and this can cause artificial inflation (devaluing the dollar).This steals the value from those who hold it in the reserves. This is why China doesn't like the system so far. It steals from them indirectly.

One form of inflation is based on growth and another in excess is based on mere printing. The stock market growing doesn't show just pure growth, it shows inflation. There is much manipulation also involved to sustain this system without feeling immediate fraudulent effects. However, our economy is unsustainable. It is extremely vulnerable to outside factors (derivatives, foreign investment, rates, other nations reserves, wars, divestment, etc.)

To keep it simple, The Federal Reserve (Which is not Federal and there is no reserve) has explicit authority over our rates (Not our politicians!). We (the US) borrow from them (International private bankers aka our central bank). The borrower is a slave to the lender. The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. We are in the red...not the black! This is very bad...not good. We are in debt ($17 trillion+). We are not a creditor, we are insane debt! Unsustainable debt. Only allowed to continue by extremely low rates. The stock market is a bubble that can pop at any point. We HAVE to borrow from the FED. If they raise our rates even very little the interest on our debt will become difficult at best and depending on how much and how fast; unbearable and unpayable.

A collapse of the old order (the current one) will have to occur for a new one to arise. This is the aim, the goal and the future (it's not if...but when). That's the question. A collapse WILL occur and major wars will begin (or vice versa).But they will both happen. Then the ruling class will be able to create a new order out of the chaos.

In my opinion, the stage is set for this to happen at any point and probably sooner than later.

Really...

All of what you stated has been stated over and over and over again since the 1920s. There are some many theories out there on the economy, but none hold any water.If you wait long enough most of it will occur, but not all.

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

in every case, those passages are dealing with the issue of God choosing whom He will for the purpose of accomplishing is His plans and agenda in the earth. None of those passages has anything to do with who is or isn't saved.  God doesn't choose to save some and not others.  Jesus death was for all mankind.

can God soften someone heart ?

GOD can do whatever he wants.

The economy is getting better, but the average individual will not notice the effects until about another 10 months.

Unless you follow the financial news closely you really won't know what is going on.

The stock market is a leading indicator, meaning folks don't invest unless they believe the returns are going to be there in the future.

And look the market is at its all time high.

Will the market crash again, Yes. Will it be anytime soon, no.

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

in every case, those passages are dealing with the issue of God choosing whom He will for the purpose of accomplishing is His plans and agenda in the earth. None of those passages has anything to do with who is or isn't saved.  God doesn't choose to save some and not others.  Jesus death was for all mankind.

I agree Christ died for all of mankind, however all will not be saved. If GOD wanted all to be saved then all would be, but that is not the case.

And yes, who will be saved without having their purpose/destiny defined by GOD?

Who can be saved without GOD's permission? I say only the elect.

A few verses to ponder:

John 15:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

2 Timothy 2:20 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth, and some to honor and some to dishonor.

Romans 9:21New King James Version (NKJV)

21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

IMO its a mystery.

Tensions are mounting around the world.

Putin adding nuclear capability to his latest rhetoric and ISIS interested in chemical weapons.

The US government needs to lower corporate taxes and try to be competitive.  That's the heart of the free market capitalist economy that we treasure here in the US. 

That's it in a nutshell. 

Racism in reverse needs to get more attention. With Obama being the "leader of the free world" or "leader of the worlds last super power", all the racial rhetoric would have subsided but it seems to have escalated.

The current news cycle keeps the minorities against Cops in full view which is not the norm, but isolated instances.

I've happen to come across the verse or someone discussing the verse below from 1 Timothy 3:2, That this applies to all pastors.

 

1 Timothy 3:2

 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

 

 

It's got me wondering, does this apply to all callings? I mean all, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher and of course Pastor. If  not, why just Bishops and pastors? I'm not really sure what to think about this, because My now ex-wife left me years ago and divorced me against my will. So my judgement in this may be biased. 

 

 

I welcome all comments and discussions on this subject.

 

God Bless 

Firestormx

Joseph

I see bishop in the text so I wouldn't go beyond that. It's not necessary to second guess God, although being human it can be a reflex at times. Bishops, correct me if I'm wrong, establish/oversee more then one church/pastor.

With that said, if you are not able to be a witness/example that represents a higher standard, it would be hard to establish credibility of spiritual authority with the new Pastors and/or carnal Christians. 

Enoc I have thought about this thread for a few days and prayed about my attitude. Have you had some time to look back at the passages provided?

So here it goes... I believe there are specific commands in the OT that were given to Israel. This includes a lot of the Levitical/ceremonial law. Tithing is one of those commands given specifically to Israel.

Where we agree. I do believe that we are to support those who preach the Gospel. Again, I think you are arguing against something that very few (other than maybe Wildstar) are trying to argue in favor of. The Scriptures clearly indicate that we are to support or spiritual leaders. (Matt 10:10; Luke 10:7; 1 Cor 9:14)

Where we agree. That Jesus wanted us to go above and beyond the spirit of the law of tithing. God wanted us not to consider 10% His, but instead to consider 100% of what we "own" His. The idea of being a steward of what physical wealth we accumulate instead of an owner.

Where we disagree. I just think imposing a 10% on everyone is either legalistic/controlling or more a cop out and discourages giving as the Holy Spirit leads people. There's a reason that only 20-25% of church members "tithe" in many congregations. "Tithing" or giving 10% across the board is a lot easier to teach that stewardship.

 

If I were to sum up my views on this subject it would be here: Why I don't Believe Christians Should Tithe - Part 3. Part 1 and 2 are good too. Don't let the title scare you. Lol.

God bless,

GE

I've come to understand that a disciple can only walk in the revelation they've received or possess. Regarding the tithe, I see it being given to the Jews, due to their hardness of heart. 

It's a good endeavor to know what parts of the old testament are overturned by the new testament and which ones are not, but expanded.

Shalom 

 

This is a question not meant to judge in any way. I am just interested to provoke some thought and perhaps get some direction.

 

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Mat 28:19  Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Mat 28:20  teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

 

What have you (us/me) done to further this command this year ? (note it is not a suggestion, it is a command. Nor does it say you need to be gifted in any way).

 

Have you done anything to Go as commanded? To make disciples? Teaching them to observe the Word?

 

Take stock and look truthfully into your heart and answer to yourself, not necessarily here if you don't feel like doing so (although it would be great to hear testimonies).

 

Me, truthfully, I would say "not enough".

 

Interesting

The making disciple part of the great commission doesn't get much attention.

I formed a discipleship group for those wanting to move closer to God.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have unlimited resources to stay afloat, the US Treasury. The president nor congress wants the public to know how much money has been flushed down the toilet so they distract the public by keeping the focus on the big banks. 

 

The statement in bold is not meant for anyone here , but an observation made over many years. On the other hand, a kicked dog will bark. 

 

I don't consider tithing a command, it's based on my personal relationship with GOD. It's a covenant we have, which I honor. 

 

Ah okay well... Interestingly enough few on this thread have said they believe in tithing. And we are all who disagree with you adopted children of the King of Kings. We are co-heirs in Christ. Not dogs. Sorry.

I also notice that you didn't address any of the Scripture presented (in both in the thread and of course Omegaman has a very detailed study of Scripture on the subject linked in ) and provided no counter argument.

Sure if this is a personal conviction as something between you and God that is great brother. So you have made a covenant with Him on this?

God bless,

GE

 

I'll review the links and revert back.

Ok, it appears the focus of the scriptures is the amount 10% (tithe) and that it's old testament thereby meant for the JEWS.

If you take the position that everything in the old testament is not applicable to the gentiles, it's reasonable to conclude tithing is not required.

I find the scriptures below revealing:

14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.

6 Let him that is taught in the Word share with him that teacheth, in all good things.

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

My interpretation of the last scripture is that the 10% in the old testament was just a starting point. With Jesus we are to go above and beyond. 

 

Interesting

 

It has always amused me how many Christians can search the scriptures to support their  reasoning for not tithing, but for other topics they don't seem to extend the same effort.

 

I tithe 10% and give offerings above the 10%. I've been a consistent tither for about 15 yrs now. I started tithing off my net increase and now I tithe on my gross. I tithe when I'm away on work, not my local church, and when at home.

 

I see tithing as worship, by keeping GOD first and understanding he is the source of all that I have. 

 

If my heavenly father felt it necessary to give his first and only begotten son, for my salvation then as a disciple, I feel compelled to try to do the same.

 

I'm sorry this in bold Enoc is addressed to who? Omegaman? Or perhaps me?

Where do you see in the Bible a command for Christians to Tithe? Let's look at the passages together.

The difference is that the Biblical tithe is 10% twice a year as well as once every 3 years and a command to Israel. A gift can be greater than 10%

I agree giving should be out of gratitude to God as an act of worship.

God bless,

GE

 

 

The statement in bold is not meant for anyone here , but an observation made over many years. On the other hand, a kicked dog will bark. 

I don't consider tithing a command, it's based on my personal relationship with GOD. It's a covenant we have, which I honor. 

Please provide the name of one man or woman alive or dead that  spoke/taught 100% without error, excluding Jesus ?

I've come to understand that no man/woman is perfect or possess the total revelation of GOD, and being human prone to error.  With that said, take the fruit that you are able to eat and leave the rest.

Interesting

It has always amused me how many Christians can search the scriptures to support their  reasoning for not tithing, but for other topics they don't seem to extend the same effort.

I tithe 10% and give offerings above the 10%. I've been a consistent tither for about 15 yrs now. I started tithing off my net increase and now I tithe on my gross. I tithe when I'm away on work, not my local church, and when at home.

I see tithing as worship, by keeping GOD first and understanding he is the source of all that I have. 

If my heavenly father felt it necessary to give his first and only begotten son, for my salvation then as a disciple, I feel compelled to try to do the same.

 

 

It's necessary as a Christian to gather/fellowship with other Christians.

 

Hebrews 10:25King James Version (KJV) 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

What about Believers who don't gather/fellowship with other Believers?

 

The believer who does not gather/fellowship with other believer's; 1) is not following God's instruction, and 2) is limiting their own spiritual growth.

God saw it necessary to provide four gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Each gospel provides a different view of Christ: King, Servant, Man, Divine or Lion, Ox, Man, Eagle. 

It behooves the believer/body of Christ to share what GOD has revealed about himself to other believers. In turn when other believers share their revelation of GOD, the two put together increases each ones overall comprehension of GOD, beyond their initial understanding, but only if the believers are able to receive it.

It's necessary as a Christian to gather/fellowship with other Christians.

God wants us to be obedient while at the same time leave judgement of the flesh/man to Christ.

The answer to your question:

Greetings,   I want to strengthen my relationship with God and feel more purposefully in prayer.

 

 

Mick.

Reading and studying his word will draw you  to him and him to you. As you progress in your walk with God, he will reveal more of himself, by his word, by his spirit and by the circumstances he allows to enter your life.

The revelation given will stimulate the growth and maturing of your spirit. As your spirit grows and matures so will your conversation/prayer life with God.  

In general it's the KJV or RKJV . There are times when I compare several version to note the differences: NIV, KJV, Amplified,NASB, and Message.

You can only know Christ through revelation given to you by the father. 

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Interesting

Just had a few questions about the Book of Job, and wanted to get others opinions.

 

God tells satan that He (God) was moved against Job, by satan without cause Job 2:3, why do you think God would allow satan to do this?

 

At the end of Job, God talks to Job, but never explains to Job why he had to suffer.  Yet God is so great in Job's presence that he repents, of his questioning God; so why do I (we) as Christian(s) who know all that Jesus Christ suffered for us, so easily forget and murmured against God, after all that He has done for me (us)?  Speaking of myself more than anybody else here.

 

And the final question why do you think God never explained to Job why he had suffered so greatly?

 

 

Feel free to answer one or as many as you want.

GOD is all knowing, and he knew what Job would do.

GOD is the creator of all,  and we are his creation an explanation maybe nice but not required. On the other hand would you understand the explanation or are somethings just not for you to know.

As men we are easily moved by the flesh, which makes us prone to doubt under pressure.

GOD knows our build, and just like he knows how to knock us to our knees he also knows how to lift us up. In other words, GOD can do things in our life so great it overshadows/blot out the not so great things that happens to us.

Job 5:18 New King James Version (NKJV) For He bruises, but He binds up;He wounds, but His hands make whole. 

Vision is important for walking with GOD. As your relationship becomes more intimate GOD will reveal more of himself, but only after he reveals to you who you are. If you don't see what GOD is doing around you, then it's best to wait, until he allows you to see what he is doing at which time he is inviting you to work with him. Anything done without seeing is done in the dark and motivated by the flesh which is limited an absent of grace and anointing.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed.