Reformed Baptist

I am saying that there is no scriptural references of anyone speaking in "unknown heavenly" tongues I would agree entirely

My friend, every definition of an English word I posted came from the Merriam Webster dictionary (11th edition) and I even supplied examples of how we use those words in those ways in common modern English phrases. So the ball is in your court to demonstrate from respectable dictionaries and Lexicons of the English Language that I am incorrect in what I have said, rather then simply dismiss it out of hand. I am sorry but bare unsubstantiated assumption does not make a convincing argument. And in regards to death not meaning end, well I have shown that from the word of God, tell me how death is end, when we have things to face after it, like a judgement for example. Let me also point out that the Bible speaks of destruction being everlasting, and not a one off event in a moment of time time, 2 Thessalonians 1:9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (NKJ) Do you know what stubble is? Yes, and do know what remains after stubble has been burnt - there is ash left is there not. The stubble has not ceased to exist, but instead it is ruined! Do you know how ashes are formed? Yes, and the relevance is? Now, coming back to my original post that you have not properly addressed yet I wonder how one who seems to be denying the eternity of hell addresses such texts as: Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (NKJ) Do you believe in an eternal heaven or not, for according to what Jesus Christ says here you can't heaven without also having hell. Further more If the punishment in Hell isn't everlasting, then the worm of the damned will die and the fire of the damned will burn itself out. This contradicts Mark 9:47,48. Therefore, the punishment in Hell is everlasting. Perhaps we should also notice, that if the judgement is not eternal, then Jesus was wrong when he said it would have been better if Judas had never been born, Mat 26:24. It seems that there are many more scriptures you need to bring to bear in regards of your thinking my friend

Right. Death is separation from God, but Rev 14:10 "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: " Obviously these people will not be separated from God, seeing as they will be in the presence of the Lamb. The only way to be separated from an omniscient God is to be annihilated I am aware of Rev 14:10 which is why I was very specific about the what the eternal death (seperation) involves, I said:

What do you mean by 'unknown' do you mean unknown to the speaker, ie other human language that are in use elsewhere in the world, or do you mean unknown tongues to all who are present, or are you referring to heavenly languages that do not actually correspond to any human language. it may be interesting to note that the Greek language had a perfectly good word that was well used to describe the ecstatic utterances that were part of Greek temple worship, but Pauland Luke never once use it, instead they refer to a words whose meaning is in relation to human languages - γλῶσσα and ἑτερόγλωσσος in such discusions I am referring to someone speaking words that neither them, nor anyone around them can understand. But human languages like English, French etc, and not heavenly tongues?

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment. Man, death is the opposite of life. Again literary gymnastics because now you have to define death as being not the end. It is not literary gymnastics to take the time and effort to properly define words. It is evident from the word of God that death is an end, think for example of Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, (NKJ) Now if death was an end, how could there be anything after it? No, clearly death is not equal to extinction or ceasing to be. Or what about 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. ( NKJ) here we see that death (physical) is a separation. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. ( NKJ). All words have a semantic range, in English the term perish has two main meanings, it means to be either destroyed or ruined, think for example of rubber, rubber perishes by which we mean it is ruined and useless, not that it has ceased to exist. Now the Greek word that uses is ἀπόλλυμι and that has an even wider semantic range then the English translation, it can mean to be lost, that is especially true when it used in the middle voice as John uses it here. As for Destroy, again the dictionary is our friend - the primary meaning for destroy is also ruin. For example we talk of destroying someones reputation, and when we do we are not saying that they no longer have a good reputation. rather we are saying that the reputation is no longer good but bad. ​I believe I have already addressed that sufficiently through a careful definition of the words we are using, definitions drawn straight out dictionaries and lexicons.

What do you mean by 'unknown' do you mean unknown to the speaker, ie other human language that are in use elsewhere in the world, or do you mean unknown tongues to all who are present, or are you referring to heavenly languages that do not actually correspond to any human language. it may be interesting to note that the Greek language had a perfectly good word that was well used to describe the ecstatic utterances that were part of Greek temple worship, but Pauland Luke never once use it, instead they refer to a words whose meaning is in relation to human languages - γλῶσσα and ἑτερόγλωσσος in such discusions

That's right, it is a great app and a great way for people to post when they are on the move - I only ask because I use it on other forums but I did a search via the app and I didn't see this forum come up, but then I might have the search parameters wrong.

is this forum tapatalk enabled?

1A - No, for tithing to God is clearly established by precedent before the law is given on Sinai - eg Gen 14:20 and Gen 28:22 2 - Yes for the principle of proportionate giving is carried forward, 1 Cor 16:2 - however it is not so easy as to make a straight comparison between what the Jews gave under law and what we should we give under grace, for grace is greater then law and therefore our response to it must be greater. 3 - It is to be given to God, through suitable ministries, to neglect the local church in favour of other works is wrong, however to just support the local church may also be considered narrow, Paul made collections for other works in the churches he visited.

Maybe, or maybe the definition of death (θάνατος) in Rom 6:23 needs to be understood. Death, in scripture, is never an end, that is an entirely pagan concept. No, rather death is always a separation, in spiritual death we are separated from God, in physical death we are separated from our bodies and in eternal death we are separated from the goodness and mercy of God forever. Life, therefore, as the opposite of death is about union, union of body and soul, union with God. Hence the contrast Paul makes in Rom 6:23 is entirely with the biblical teaching of eternal punishment.

Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into everlasting (αἰώνιον) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (αἰώνιον) life." (NKJ) According to this contrast that Jesus set up, if the punishment (hell) is not eternal then nor is the life.