Shar

Mt.23:2 From the Greek Interlinear ..."The scribes and the Pharisees sat down on Moses' seat. Then all things, whatever they tell you to keep, keep and do. But not according to their works, for they say and do not do." In other words, truly keep them. Don't be like some who are hypocrites and say to keep them, but do not. The Scribes and Pharisees were the keepers of the law, both written and oral. They made sure it was protected and accurately transcribed. That was another distinction of the Pharisees from the other sects of Judaism, besides believing in the physical return of the Messiah. I agree someone should start another thread if we wish to continue this discussion. There is plenty to say and discuss that can be quite interesting. This forum is about fulfilled feasts and I don't want to take from that discussion.

I am loving this, but I have to go for the night. I will pick up tomorrow. God bless and good night

I don't feel ganged up on. I love the discussion. It is, just look at what He practiced and believed and you can conclude that He was of that sect because He even stated to "learn the traditions of the Pharisees". You know the old saying "you know them by their fruits", well that is in connection to what they say and do. Jesus said and practiced what was unique to the beliefs and practices of the Pharisees.

True, but he was still raised in human childhood. His parents were chosen for a reason. To raise Him, teach Him, guide Him. He even entered His ministry at the age of 30, to coincide with the age the Jewish male entered into priesthood.

Joline, that is the point. The use of the word Pharisee does not mean the entire sects of Pharisees were wrong or even bad. Some Pharisees were, but that does not negate their beliefs because a few went haywire on John or others. The kangaroo court that convicted Jesus at night was primarily Sadducee, not Pharisee. I cannot see Nicodemus or Joseph of Arimathea letting that happen. The Pharisees would have demanded a defense lawyer for Jesus. This group denied Him that, along with other rights that the Pharisees would have absolutely required.

I agree this should be it own thread, if interest continues.

Saying, as His human nature, he was raised and learn these things He was taught. The Bible says He even had to learn obedience. Remember, He was Human in every way, besides being the Son of God. He was raised from infancy to the Jewish adulthood by His parents and learn in the Temple.

I cannot go into the all the practices of the Pharisees that distinguished them from all the other sects. But one really interesting one that was distinctively their personal practice, at that time, was to give a blessing before the meal. Jesus definitely practiced that one, along with others. God specifically commanded for the blessing to be after the meal. They gave a blessing then, as well.

Please Joline, get this. He does not have to enter the Holy of Holies again. He did not enter the Holy of Holies again for you when you believed on Him. When you made your personal decision for Christ, you did it in one day. You received the atoning sacrifice when you believed, even though He died over 2000 years ago. So it will be on the day Israel believes and the atoning sacrifice is pour on the nation. That can happen on Yom Kippur. This will be a significance God's appointed time for the Fall Feasts to have their significance to His second coming and to the nation of Israel.

I say the same to you as I just replied to LittleFlower, please read it. If I go to Mass and keep the Catholic feasts and holidays and I support the Catholic church, you would probably accurately conclude that I am Catholic. Well, Jesus practiced the Pharisee Sect of Judaism. Everything He practiced, believed and taught was from that sect of belief. He never preached against resurrection, Hell, angels, God as Father, as would a Sadducee. Besides, He stated for them to "learn the traditions of the Pharisees". He was raised a Jew, by Jewish parents, a Jewish father to teach Him the Torah, and to keep the Jewish faith. There wasn't anything Jesus did that was not fully Jewish.

Read what they believed. The other sects did not practice or believe as the Pharisees did. The Pharisees believed in Hell, angels, life after death, resurrection, grooming disciples, prayer before meals, etc. The other sects did not. Why would Jesus ever say "learn the traditions of the Pharisees, if he were of some other Sect? Remember, He was not born, raised, died or resurrected as a Gentile. He was a Jew and he learned Judaism and practiced it completely.

Zec explains their sins and the impurities God will remove from them and their land.....ON THAT DAY

Jesus was from the Pharisee Sect of Judaism. The Pharisees had certain beliefs that were contrary to the Sadducees, Zealots, Essenes, etc. This was why there was a lot of division on the Sanhedrin, particularly between the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The Pharisees believed in resurrection, life after death, angels, Hell, grooming disciples to eat, believe and act like their Master, etc. Pharisees had the tradition of giving the blessing before a meal. In addition, they gave a blessing after the meal as God commanded. This is what Jesus believed and even stated to "keep the traditions of the Pharisees" Mt. 23:2, but he warned for them not to be hypocritical in their keeping of them, as some of the Pharisees did. We have believed that the Pharisees were bad and Christ abhorred them, but whenever He rebuked them if was because He was speaking "in the family" language. He had a right to rebuke them in order to turn them back to doing and thinking right. There were several sects of Pharisees and they were not all needing rebuking. I don't know how accurate your history is, and I don't see evidence that all of John's disciples were not of the Pharisees, but maybe there was a reason the Pharisee Sect survived.

Our Savior has entered the Holy of Holies and He is our Great High Priest. These verses do not take away from Yom Kippur. This has yet to happen for the nation of Israel. They have not received the atoning sacrifice yet. They will when they believe on their Messiah when they see Him. Read Zec. 12 and 13. ON THAT DAY, is repeated throughout. Including taking away their sins in ONE DAY. Just like you and I accepted Christ, it happened to us at the time we accepted Him, on that particular day, even though He died and paid the penalty over 2000 years ago. We did not personally receive the atoning sacrifice until we believed in the Messiah. He entered the Holy of Holies once for all and for all time. He does not have to enter again. He is the Great High Priest that makes intercession for us in the Heavenly Temple. These Hebrews references do not affect Yom Kippur, in the future for Israel, when Christ returns.

Actually, there is much that Christ still has to fulfill that will occur with his second coming. He has yet to fulfill all His Davidic promises to the nation of Israel and the Jewish people. He has yet to take His reign for a thousand years on the Davidic throne in Jerusalem. He has yet to take away the sins from the nation of Israel and cleanse the land. He has yet to rule the nations. Etc., etc., etc. The Fall Feasts point to His second coming.

Q, I agree that there are certain Messianics that claim they keep the Mosaic Law. However, like there are many types of Baptists (Free-Will, Independent, Southern, Primitive, etc.), there are many types of Messianics. Some believe that they should actually go through all 613 commandments and pick out what should and should not be upheld, even to an extreme orthodox manner. Some definitely don't even try to go there. Some believe the Messianic Jew has a different set of requirements regarding the Mosaic Law than does the Gentile Messianic. It goes on and on to certain congregations and their differences. So, when someone ask if I am Messianic, I ask them what do you mean? I need to know what they have come to fully or erroneously understand before I answer. I believe the biggest confusion comes with the word "law". Our English translations are so inadequate because they use the word "law" for the law from which we have been freed. YEA! However, they use the word "law" for what is actually referred to as teachings. We then erroneously conclude that because the word "law" is used, it is always negative, even when it refers to God teachings. Those teachings are our guidelines and to keep us on the straight and narrow. I may even use some of the Mosaic Law as a guideline. For instance, stealing. Suppose my child stole from someone while spending the night with her friend. I may want to look at Ex.22:7 as a guideline. "...if the thief is caught, he should pay double." Even though this verse does not specifically address the exact act, as I described, it may be a good lesson to my child for stealing. Or, maybe I will use Pro.6:31 and make her pay back sevenfold.

Thanks Q. Sticking to my vegetarian and fish diet. LOL

True, Jesus is the only atoning sacrifice. When He returns, they recognize Him as the Messiah and believe on Him. In that one day, they are saved. Yom Kippur is also a time for afflicting your soul, confessing and repenting from one's sin. This day will be the time of Israel's repentance. When Jesus comes to establish His throne, Israel will look on Him whom they have pierced and MOURN for Him as one mourns for their only child. Ze. 12-13. The nation of Israel's sin will be dealt with in that one day. He will cleanse the people and the nation from all their sins and impurities. God promises will remember their sins no more. On that day, God will pour out a spirit of grace and supplication upon His people. God pours His atoning sacrifice on them. They will know and have the true salvation, as we know and have, through their Messiah. Theirs is coming in one day.

I agree that the supermarket place does not kill the meat in a truly Kosher manner and whenever I have bought Kosher meats it has been at a Kosher butcher for over twice the price. Very good reason why I am mostly vegetation with an emphasis on eating fish or veggie substitutions for meats. However, I do have some Jewish friends that have bought meat from a regular market and soak the meat in salt to remove all the blood. Is this an acceptable consideration if you want to make sure all the blood is removed?

You definitely do not have an understanding of the Feasts. The Feasts are all about the Messiah, His First and Second Comings. It does not diminish the priesthood, because Jesus, the Messiah, is the Priest! Also, your constant comment about me having a Rabbinic view, shows me you don't understand what Rabbinic is either.

AMEN Q.

What is your point? This has nothing to do with the Feasts that are a topic of discussion. We know He is the Great High Priest in the Heavenly Temple.

I don't get the point of all your scripture quotes. I never quote anything Rabbinic. My understanding of scripture comes right out of the Word of God. No one doubts the final and complete atoning sacrifice of Christ for ALL who believe. Your position stems more out of not fully understanding the purpose and meaning of the Feasts of God, which He calls His appointed times. That very significant events around His plans and purposes center around His Appointed Times. The Jews did not make up these Feasts. God appointed and mandated them. I would seek my best to get to know them. If you really want to understand Messianic Judaism and why they place a significance on these Feasts, I recommend the same book to you that I recommended to LittleFlower; "The Feasts of the Lord", by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal. It will open up a clear understanding of God's Feasts and their purposes.

Not really. If one has an understanding of all of God's Festivals, which he states are everlasting, you can see their fulfillment. Christ has two comings. In His first coming, The Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits were fulfilled, and Shavuot at Pentecost. In His second coming, and most specific to His return, His promise to Israel and His Davidic reign, the Feast of Trumpets, Yom Kippur and Succoth will be fully realized. I would deeply encourage you to read about these Feasts and a very good book to start with is, "The Feasts of the Lord" by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal. This gives a very clear understanding of them in Old and New Testaments, their purpose, their meaning and their times of fulfillment. There is no conjecture, but a full understanding to God's Feasts. God calls them His appointed times and they carry great significance to the times He has designated for His eternal plan and purposes.