Shar

Be Christ-like and not call one another liars. You simply cannot conclusively state that there is a dual meaning in this vision when Peter immediately goes to Cornelius' house to share the good news with a Gentile.

We disagree that the Peter's vision was a dual purpose and made unclean foods clean. I believe he was referencing Gentiles, henceforth Peter went to Cornelius, not to get a ham sandwich. That is the point of the discussion. You state why you think so. I state why I think so. I could accuse you of false doctrine too, but we should not act in such a manner. I do not throw stones at those who want to eat everything. Those who do, must make sure they do the same for those who believe they need to remain kosher. Remember, the matter of the heart is our greatest concern. You copied well. Your failed to show how early Christians fled when Jews were being persecuted, as to no longer be identified with them and avoid the persecution. How Constantine substituted the Jewish feasts for the pagan feasts, such as Easter for Passover, Christmas (Saturnalia) for Succoth. The list of anti-Semitism goes on and on throughout Church history. Peter was an apostle to the Jews, as they agreed Paul would be the apostle to the Gentiles. Peter did not become a Gentile Christian. We now agree to disagree. God Bless. Shalom

We disagree that the Peter's vision was a dual purpose and made unclean foods clean. I believe he was referencing Gentiles, henceforth Peter went to Cornelius, not to get a ham sandwich. That is the point of the discussion. You state why you think so. I state why I think so. I could accuse you of false doctrine too, but we should not act in such a manner. I do not throw stones at those who want to eat everything. Those who do, must make sure they do the same for those who believe they need to remain kosher. Remember, the matter of the heart is our greatest concern. This is in reference to the sacrificial system, since the Messiah's sacrifice made us righteous, "he died once for all". This did not do away with all of G-d's law. Remember the precious words of our L-rd in Matthew 5:17. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets (the O.T). I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill (to make their meaning full) them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter or the least stroke of the pen will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Immediately after this He goes into giving the full meaning behind several parables the Jews were already familiar with and gives them their true meaning. He starts with the teaching on Anger. The reference "to fading" means that it is moving forward to the time when it is all completed, then it will be obsolete, but is not so yet. Not all has been accomplished as our L-rd requires. Also, English translations poorly use the word "Law" for both of the words meaning either legalism or for teaching/guidelines of G-d. You need to drive down those meanings when confused by the meaning of "Law". Most times in the negative sense it references legalistic in character, which Paul often spoke against, not the reference to G-d's teachings.

We disagree that the Peter's vision was a dual purpose and made unclean foods clean. I believe he was referencing Gentiles, henceforth Peter went to Cornelius, not to get a ham sandwich. That is the point of the discussion. You state why you think so. I state why I think so. I could accuse you of false doctrine too, but we should not act in such a manner. I do not throw stones at those who want to eat everything. Those who do, must make sure they do the same for those who believe they need to remain kosher. Remember, the matter of the heart is our greatest concern. Regarding your point on "every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving". If this be truly as you assume, then would you say it is OK to cook up a Blow Fish or one of the 16 varieties of extremely poisonous tree frogs? You interpretation of this, would render these eatable, simply by giving thanks. See, you cannot take a literal interpretation of this verse to justify we can eat anything. Paul references "food" here. And like I previously wrote, G-d has listed out what is and what is not food for His people. So when they speak of food, they speak of truly eatable food as G-d has defined. But like I also said, division should not be over this topic. It is just "food for thought", (no pun intended), to get us truly searching out scripture without any pre-disposed bias that we may have grown up to believe.

This one fact you quote does not go with the actual times. Peter was a Jew and remained so. The Jews did not adopt the pagan lifestyle. The Gentiles were not the non-Jews of today. They were an extremely idolatrous, sexually perverted, blood drinking, non-kosher, polytheist people group. Remarkably unclean and to be avoided. These people were now open up to being brought into the faith through the blood of Messiah. The only faith was a biblical form of Judaism, that Paul often referred to as "The Way". Acts 15 gave the first 4 basic requirements that these pagans must do to clean up their act in order to be able to be brought in and have the Jew teach them the faith. These Gentiles were required to give up their lifestyle, NEVER did G-d instruct the Jew to adopt pagan lifestyle in ANY form. A clear example of how the Church has deviated from the original faith is our failure to practice, even as stated by Paul to keep, is The Passover (1 Cor. 5:8). How could we ignore one of the G-d's greatest festivals, that marked the actual death, burial and resurrection of our L-rd, and justify switching it for the pagan feast of Ishtar? Ishtar (Easter), the fertility goddess, and all it symbols of the eggs, the bunnies, etc. We take the Passover, throw it away, and say our L-rd resurrected on this pagan feast? Do a thorough study of the Church's history and you will be astonished on how far we have deviated. Constantine moved to make Christianity the religion during his reign for political reason. They then took the worship of their Sun god on Sunday and switched out Sabbath and switch Passover for the pagan feast of Ishtar (Easter) and our L-rd's birth (Festival of Succoth) for Saturnalia, the birth of their Sun god, Saturn.

We disagree that the Peter's vision was a dual purpose and made unclean foods clean. I believe he was referencing Gentiles, henceforth Peter went to Cornelius, not to get a ham sandwich. That is the point of the discussion. You state why you think so. I state why I think so. I could accuse you of false doctrine too, but we should not act in such a manner. I do not throw stones at those who want to eat everything. Those who do, must make sure they do the same for those who believe they need to remain kosher. Remember, the matter of the heart is our greatest concern.

I already dealt with Mark 7:19 in my previous post. Please read..

Did not say it is not. Simply indicated that there reference was not to it, but to the scriptures of the OT

I think this could be an interesting discussion, however, I do not believe it belongs here where we are discussing if it is OK to eat unclean food. This is best served by starting a new thread. It would take forever to answer each one and determine whether these apply today. Just off the bat, I see a lot are civil laws that were unique to people living in the land Israel (like that stated to destroy all places of idolatry in the Land. "The Land" was Israel only). In our land, we would not hang a man for blasphemy or not take testimony from a woman in court. Please start a new thread if you are really interested in all these. Thanks

Peter was a Jew. He could not, nor did he ever become a Gentile. In this passage, Paul rebukes Peter for his hypocrisy when the men came from James. He withdrew himself from association with the Gentiles. Paul rebukes him for Peter lived and associated with the Gentiles, as other Gentiles did, and no longer as a Jew who would not associate or come near a Gentile. Remember, in his vision, he clearly did not ever eat or get near that which was unclean and Gentiles were unclean. G-d showed Peter that Gentiles are now welcomed into His family. Henceforth, his visit to Cornelius and entering the house of a Gentile for the first time. These men from James are referenced in Acts as they insisted that the Gentiles must be circumcised in order to be saved. This was not the case. Here in Galatians, Paul further rebukes this for these men that came from James were seen by Peter. Peter became fearful and separated himself. Paul further rebukes this circumcision mandate from these men by stating that no one can be justified or saved by observing the law, but only through faith in Messiah. We died to these requirements of the Law in order to live by faith. This rebuke is not an mandate that all of G-d's law (teachings, guidelines) are to be thrown out. Paul still observed these, practiced them. He took Nazarite vows and performed them. The apostles and early believers kept the Sabbath, festivals and kept kosher.

Read the article By the way, I love Hebrew4Christians. He is referencing throughout, the question as to whether we should follow (quite erroneously) the Torah as defined by Rabbinical Judaism. This is mostly the Oral Law with the added requirements by man. This is what Yeshua was referencing and rebuking the Pharisees when they criticized His disciples. He clearly asks in this article "are we to abandon the real Torah?" The author's response is G-d forbid, just as Paul said, "Are we to nullify the Law? G-d forbid. Just like Yeshua said, "Don't think I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets". The true law of G-d throughout His Word has always been about grace, loving G-d and loving your neighbor. G-d gave the 10 commandments which summarized his Law into categories that were to "Love your G-d with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself". Temporary animals sacrifices were needed to cover sin and point to the True Lamb of G-d. We are now made clean and righteous through His sacrifice, once for all. The mystery of the Holy Spirit now lives in us.

Good morning. Answer 1 timothy 4. Remember, Paul is addressing Timothy for instructions to church leaders. These latter days they abandon the Truth and follow the devil. Remember, Satan is a counterfeit and against G-d's order. They forbid the holy order of marriage. Probably for living in sin instead. They abstain from certain FOODS that G-d created and to be received with Thanksgiving. This is not against G-d's dietary laws, but against what He says you can eat. Paul's reference to everything good and to be received with thanksgiving is better understood as to what G-d defined as good food. The real question is, "What does G-d define as food?" That is very clear in the Leviticus and elsewhere. For His people, called by His name, the list did not include unclean animals. He specifically says Eat this and Don't Eat That. In the beginning, all of mankind was vegetarian. After the flood, we see a verse to everything that moves. But these people already knew what clean and unclean animals were and they are coming out of a lifetime of being a vegan. I don't think they immediately went hunting for wild boar. From Noah to Moses, it is interesting that nowhere in the Bible do you ever see a reference to them serving up unclean meat to eat, but always specifically serving up clean meat. Most times they ate meat on only special occasions. Now, there are references throughout that G-d permitted the giving of dead animals and unclean things that were not permitted to be eaten to the alien (the Goyim, the true Gentile that was not in the faith or family of G-d). Most importantly, we must all remember that the kingdom of G-d is more than eat or drink. Our priorities should always be on our heart (words, thoughts, actions, etc.). Never let something as this discussion divide the Family of G-d.

I will address this later. Living as a Gentile. Will explain this tomorrow. Good Night. Love talking to you.

To all, glad to be back on. This was fun. Quitting for the night. G-d Bless.

I am saying the dietary laws given by G-d do not seen to have been done away with by the practice of Yeshua, the Apostles or the early believers who came into the synagogue and learn and studied Moses. That the original faith that was preached by Paul and the Apostles and practiced by our Messiah was Judaism and was a sect of Judaism known as The Way. That the faith did not mimic any other form of religion or practice.

Noah was before the dietary laws. See my post regarding that. Thanks

OK. I need to understand. Are you distinguishing yourself as a Noah Chide (believes only needs to follow the seven laws given to Noah) or do you consider yourself grafted into Israel, as per Romans 11?

That was G-d's direction to Noah. No longer required to be a vegetarian, as it was before the flood. This was before the dietary laws were given to G-d's people. These dietary laws also helped distinguish G-d's people from the pagans.

If I EAT with you, it does not mean I eat the same thing. You and I may go out to eat dinner. I am eating with you, but that does not mean I am eating the same thing you are eating.

LOL

This is not stating Peter ate unclean food. This is when Peter kept company with the Gentiles and eat and had fellowship with them. Then when the men from James came, Peter did not want them to see him in the company of Gentiles. Peter pulled away and did not associate with the Gentiles because of his hypocrisy. Paul rebuked him for this. Again, nothing to do with eating unclean food.

Show me in G-d's word where the apostles did not remain Kosher and did not keep the Judaic laws that were established. Remember, when Jesus and the Apostles spoke of the scripture and referenced scripture, they were not speaking of the New Testament. It did not exist.

Stumbling block has to do with the marketplace issue I just addressed. Paul practiced Judaism because the faith was a sect of Judaism. Paul stated that many times and it was referred to as such many times in Acts. The faith was known as the sect "The Way".

I would appreciate a response to my question. If this is meant that all food is clean for consumption, they why did the Apostles and the early believers remain Kosher and keep the Levitical Laws, after Jesus died? It is simple, because the dietary laws were not changed. I clearly accept ACTS. Read Acts 15. They placed initially 4 laws on the Gentiles coming into the synagogue. This was so they would be able to approach and be near a Jew so they could learn the faith. It states that let's not make it difficult on them. Moses is taught in the synagogue every Sabbath. In other words, The Gentiles will learn as they study and learn the faith and then will be able to come more fully into what is required of them without overwhelming them,

The sheet of unclean animals was not a new food plan. It was a dream to show later that Jews were to not consider Gentiles unclean now because G-d had open salvation to them. Hence, thereafter Peter went into the Gentile home of Cornelius to tell him of Yeshua. Otherwise, Peter would have never stepped foot into the Gentile home. Second, the marketplace. Paul was clear in other scripture, not to eat meat you knew was sacrificed to idols. However, in the marketplace you could not always tell for sure if it had been offered. In this case, your conscience could be clear if you did so without knowing. Again, did not say, go ahead and eat any meat. Many types of animals, clean and unclean were offered in these pagan temples. He was talking about clean meat offered and now in the marketplace. Not porky the pig.