shinethelight14

Not is not a poor argument. They may not have had the finalized canon of 27 books established, but even Paul and Peter were beginning to recognize a NT canon. The letters of Paul were being passed around from church to church, as were the Gospels. They were being taught by the apostles. Nowhere were any Gentiles in any of the letters or the Gospels commanded to observe the Sabbath. If it was required of them, there would have been plenty of admonitions to all of the churches in the NT. But none exist. Even if we go only by the OT, no Gentiles were expected to keep the Torah unless they converted to the Israelite religion. Then they had to be circumcised and all that. They had to become part of Israel. But no one outside of Israel, even in the OT were ever commanded to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath was only given to Israel in the OT and you cannot find ONE commandment even in the OT that contradicts that fact. Instead of using NT verses, show me in the Tanakh that says sabbath day is not for gentiles That's the point I am making. You don't have any verses in the Tanakh or the NT commanding Gentiles to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath, as a commandment is only given to Israel, in Exodus 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:3; Deut. 5:12-15. There are no commandments given to the Gentile nations requiring them to keep the Sabbath. So the truth is that it is YOU that have the burden of proof when you claim that the Bible requires Gentiles to keep the Sabbath. You don't have any at all. I think you know that, too. I don't have to come up with a verse that says, "the Sabbath is not for Gentiles" because that hasn't been my argument. My argument has been that Gentiles are free to keep the Sabbath day and they are free not to keep the Sabbath day. It is not compulsory on Gentiles. So far, you have not been able to drum up ONE verses of Scripture to support your position that Gentiles are required to keep the Sabbath day. Your argument is impotent and devoid of truth Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants— Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant— 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.” 8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says, “Yet I will gather to him Others besides those who are gathered to him.” This passages proves that a gentile who is a foreigner can keep the sabbath who join themelves to the Lord. I've asked a rabbi who I am friends with. I asked him that can gentile keep the sabbath. He said if he wanted to according to the book of Isaiah.

Not is not a poor argument. They may not have had the finalized canon of 27 books established, but even Paul and Peter were beginning to recognize a NT canon. The letters of Paul were being passed around from church to church, as were the Gospels. They were being taught by the apostles. Nowhere were any Gentiles in any of the letters or the Gospels commanded to observe the Sabbath. If it was required of them, there would have been plenty of admonitions to all of the churches in the NT. But none exist. Even if we go only by the OT, no Gentiles were expected to keep the Torah unless they converted to the Israelite religion. Then they had to be circumcised and all that. They had to become part of Israel. But no one outside of Israel, even in the OT were ever commanded to keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath was only given to Israel in the OT and you cannot find ONE commandment even in the OT that contradicts that fact. Instead of using NT verses, show me in the Tanakh that says sabbath day is not for gentiles

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? what you don't seem to understand is that the Sabbath is a picture or foreshadowing of Jesus as our rest. We rest in Christ for salvation, we rest in Him for all that we need. Jesus is the epitome of God's rest. He is what the Sabbath day was pointing to. When we enter into Jesus, we are entering the rest God has provided for our hearts. Actually Sabbath Day is a foreshadow when Yeshua comes back to the earn to rule as King for 1000 years of peace (sabbath). Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. From what I understand is that the 1000 years, the millennium, is the seventh 1000 years period, also the symbolical sabbath where Satan will be locked in the pit of darkness where he will not be able to influence anybody on this earth. He will be forced to rest on this Sabbath as he has influenced the world to break the Sabbath. I further believe that Jesus will be in heaven with the saved ones, that were resurrected just before the 1000 year period, during this 1000 year period. your right

Sorry tff, but that is false teaching. Paul never commanded the Sabbath be held till Jesus comes. That is also a misapplication of what Jesus said. Jesus said that the entire law was summed up in loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. the argument that if you don't keep the Sabbath you don't love God is not in the New Testament. The New Testament doesn't define our love for God in terms of observance of rituals or feast days. Rather, our love for God is defined by our willingness to trust in Christ for salvation and live in obedience resulting from salvation, not from a need to keep a set of commandments. You are right about if you don't keep the sabbath, you don't love God is not found in new testament. But Yeshua says In Matt 5:19....if you keep the least of the commandment and teach them do the same also, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of God...like you keep a few and you don't keep others also, you tell people do the same also.....the scripture speaks for it selfs but you keep them and teach them do so the same also, you will be called the great in Kingdom of God. So you would you rather be called the great in Kingdom of God because you follow the commandments of God and tell people do the same also or would you rather be called the least in the Kingdom of God because you keep some parts of the commandments of God and tell people to do the same also? To Love God is to obey His Commandments. Refer to Joh 14:21; Rom 13:8-10; Joh 14:15; Joh 15:9-10; 1 Joh 5:3. By Ignoring His Commandments, you show your NON-LOVE. Paul also did not have to spell each Commandment out when he said in 1 Tim 6:14 that the Commandments be kept until Jesus comes again as he referred to the big picture. He that says that he knows Jesus and do not follow the Commandments are Liars 1 Joh 2:4. Love = Keep the Commandments. Make your choice. Just because I don't observe a commandment I wasn't given to keep by Jesus doesn't mean I don't love Him. Jesus never commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath, not a single time. I keep the commandments Jesus gave and are listed in the NT. I don't have to observe the Sabbath because it was not given to the Church. Sorry but you are spreading false teaching and your teachings are rejected. You twist the Bible to make it say what it doesn't say. You have nothing good to offer here. To use NT as an argument is poor. The early christian days they have never had a New Testament readings. All they have was Tanakh. So try again...as if there was no NT

That is a false dichotomy. The Sabbath as stated in the ten commandments is the same Sabbath mentioned in Exodus 31:13-17. The Sabbath day is mentioned in different contexts. It is a sign between the children of Israel and God. It is unique among the ten commandments in that way. The Sabbath is a sign between the children of Israel under the Mosaic Covenant. There are special annual Sabbaths, but all of them point to Jesus in one fashion or another, just like the Sabbath day in the ten commandments. It shows that you really haven't studied out the significance of the Sabbath day if you can't accept that it foreshadows Jesus. The Sabbath day belongs to the Old Testament economy and pertains to God's relationship with Israel, for ever. For that reason, it is not problematic for us as Christians to see only nine of the ten commandments as applicable to the Church. It isn't a question of it being done away with. It's just that it isn't a part of the NT economy. You are free to keep the Sabbath day if you wish, but you have no business and no right to tell other believers that Sabbath day observance is compulsory upon them. All genuine followers of Jesus should reject that aspect your claims out of hand. The Law of God was from the Beginning and Adam and Eve were not Israelies or any other nationality. The Law was given to mankind. God will not include the Sabbath Commandment in His Law if He did not think it was a valid law and God does not make mistakes. The Bible also teaches that nothing of the Law may be changed or that we must keep man-made laws. So do you offer a daily burnt offering? Do you sacrifice sin offerings? No I do not, as that is not part of the Law of God that had to be kept until Jesus comes again. But you just said that nothing of the law may be changed. Now you say it has been changed. seems like you don't really know what you believe. You go ahead and try to keep the Law. I'm a Christian. I'll just keep putting my trust in Jesus. 'Cause that's what Christians do. Yeshua said do not think I have come to destroy the law and but fulfill. What parts of Yeshua words you don't understand?

No, they do not apply to Christians. Those commandments were given to the nation of Israel. They were never repeated as a commandment to the Church. They are relevant to us for the purpose of theological insight/lessons, but they are not given as commandment for us to observe in the New Testament economy. Then your saying homosexuality is ok.... Wrong. The NT has a lot to say about sexual purity and Jesus upholds the biblical definition of marriage between one man and one woman. You are attempting to assign a value to me that you know isn't true, and in doing so you are intellectually dishonest. Dishonest? I know it is the truth. The Holy Spirit convince me as the truth eating unclean food is a sin.

Are you telling me homosexuality and incest is ok?

No, they do not apply to Christians. Those commandments were given to the nation of Israel. They were never repeated as a commandment to the Church. They are relevant to us for the purpose of theological insight/lessons, but they are not given as commandment for us to observe in the New Testament economy. Then your saying homosexuality is ok....

As matter fact, clean and uclean meats applies for christians today. Because Gods commandments can not change. If Yeshua declares declares it is ok to eat unclean meats..then he would be a false prophet according to Torah

Sorry tff, but that is false teaching. Paul never commanded the Sabbath be held till Jesus comes. That is also a misapplication of what Jesus said. Jesus said that the entire law was summed up in loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. the argument that if you don't keep the Sabbath you don't love God is not in the New Testament. The New Testament doesn't define our love for God in terms of observance of rituals or feast days. Rather, our love for God is defined by our willingness to trust in Christ for salvation and live in obedience resulting from salvation, not from a need to keep a set of commandments. You are right about if you don't keep the sabbath, you don't love God is not found in new testament. But Yeshua says In Matt 5:19....if you keep the least of the commandment and teach them do the same also, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of God...like you keep a few and you don't keep others also, you tell people do the same also.....the scripture speaks for it selfs but you keep them and teach them do so the same also, you will be called the great in Kingdom of God. So you would you rather be called the great in Kingdom of God because you follow the commandments of God and tell people do the same also or would you rather be called the least in the Kingdom of God because you keep some parts of the commandments of God and tell people to do the same also? You are completely missing the point behind what Jesus was saying. The thesis of the sermon on the mount (Matt. 5-7) was where Jesus said "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees you will not in any wise enter the Kingdom of God." (5:20). It was the Scribes and Pharisees that were leading people away from Torah observance. The Sabbath doesn't belong to the church. The Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel. Israel and the Church are two separate entities. The Sabbath was never given to the Church. How am I missing the point what Yeshua said when the scripture clearly speaks for it self? Come on be more logic here

Sorry tff, but that is false teaching. Paul never commanded the Sabbath be held till Jesus comes. That is also a misapplication of what Jesus said. Jesus said that the entire law was summed up in loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. the argument that if you don't keep the Sabbath you don't love God is not in the New Testament. The New Testament doesn't define our love for God in terms of observance of rituals or feast days. Rather, our love for God is defined by our willingness to trust in Christ for salvation and live in obedience resulting from salvation, not from a need to keep a set of commandments. You are right about if you don't keep the sabbath, you don't love God is not found in new testament. But Yeshua says In Matt 5:19....if you keep the least of the commandment and teach them do the same also, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of God...like you keep a few and you don't keep others also, you tell people do the same also.....the scripture speaks for it selfs but you keep them and teach them do so the same also, you will be called the great in Kingdom of God. So you would you rather be called the great in Kingdom of God because you follow the commandments of God and tell people do the same also or would you rather be called the least in the Kingdom of God because you keep some parts of the commandments of God and tell people to do the same also?

The Sabbath is still being observed in Israel, so it makes sense that Jesus would mention it. It's not a matter of the Sabbath being changed. The church is simply not obligated to keep the Sabbath day. Wrong. read the prophet Isaiah 56: 6 As for the foreigners who attach themselves to the Lord, to minister to him, And to love the name of the Lord, To be his servants- All who keeps the sabbath and do not profane it, Yeshua our Lord even says that shabbat was created for man not man for the shabbat in Mark 2:27 yeah that is not talking about the Church. That was talking about Gentiles who lived among the Israelites. The Church in not in view in those verses. Church was not revealed in the OT> "Joining oneself to the Lord" in the OT meant to convert to the Israelite religion of that day. When Jesus said that the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, He was talking Pharisees who misapplying the Sabbath and made man a servant of the sabbath and instead of the other way around. Why did you apply this as not the church? This is about a people who come from a foreign country who have faith in Hashem. A believer in Hashem...thats the key phrase. We believers as gentiles were grafted into Israel according to Romans 11 by becoming Israel...not to replace Israel but becoming one...one in the spirit.

The Sabbath is still being observed in Israel, so it makes sense that Jesus would mention it. It's not a matter of the Sabbath being changed. The church is simply not obligated to keep the Sabbath day. Wrong. read the prophet Isaiah 56: 6 As for the foreigners who attach themselves to the Lord, to minister to him, And to love the name of the Lord, To be his servants- All who keeps the sabbath and do not profane it, Yeshua our Lord even says that shabbat was created for man not man for the shabbat in Mark 2:27

The Sabbath day is from friday evening to saturday evening. But Jesus is the true Sabbath. When I got saved, I entered into His rest. I don't need the sabbath day when I have Jesus. So you also agree that the Sabbath is from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I do not understand how you can say Jesus is the true Sabbath. The Sabbath is God's rest. How can Jesus be God's rest? Jesus is God's son. If we need to rest on the Sabbath like God, then we should rest on the Saturday, right? what you don't seem to understand is that the Sabbath is a picture or foreshadowing of Jesus as our rest. We rest in Christ for salvation, we rest in Him for all that we need. Jesus is the epitome of God's rest. He is what the Sabbath day was pointing to. When we enter into Jesus, we are entering the rest God has provided for our hearts. Actually Sabbath Day is a foreshadow when Yeshua comes back to the earn to rule as King for 1000 years of peace (sabbath). Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hello, I'm a new member on this forum! Shabbat was never changed. It is and always be on 7th day of the week. One of the verses that convinced me that shabbat is still being observe today is Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: I've used to believe Jesus Christ was our sabbath rest until I read deeper into Matthew 24:19-20. If Jesus Christ was our sabbath rest that we don't have to keep a sabbath day, then you have to explain those passages.