Skyes

There is only one way to get closer to Jesus. Forgive everyone first, then ask for forgiveness, and then pray. He wants you to turn to him. You and your ancestors have sinned against Him. Yes, that sounds like God, and do not compare His work to magic. Magic (not the bunny in the hat kind) is real and He hates it. Magic is defined as trying to enact change in the physical world by your own will. This normally involves the help of a demon (whether the person using magic knows it or not). Think "Law of Attraction." Look at what happened when Moses was speaking for God to Pharaoh. ETA: The only thoughts that are truly from us are the ones we will into existence. The rest, even those caused by genetics, are normally attacks from the enemy (the enemy often attacks through our genetic weaknesses. Don't forget why we have those in the first place); although sometimes they come from the Holy Spirit. You have no idea how much I have prayed, friend. Really, I used to pray a lot, everyday. About your second statement, do you have any evidence or proof to base yourself on what you told?

Thank you, friend Thank you! This helped me a lot. The best message I got so far. Thank you Marilyn How do you know that? You can't say that without knowing it. I did trust in God, more than anything. I still do. You still think the bible is God's words, and that it is irrefutable, wich is prety sad. Most crimes commited by the catholic church in the inquisition derive from the same perspective. The muslims also use the Quran in the same way to explode people and go to "heaven", or the Torah, and so on. That is the problem. People don't think with their own minds anymore, they blindly belive in a book, and wage war against each other to proove wich book is the true God's word. It's quite sad, to be honest. And about your second comment, I never mentioned denominations. Read my post before saying it. And I am fairly sure you carry at least one preach from a pastor to base yourself with. I know that you trust in your own works by how many times you mentioned what you did compared to haw many times you mentioned how Christ worked through you. Count the "I" statements. Your example of how men use religion to do horrific things is not disputable, but what you seem to not realize is that anyone can call themselves Christian or Muslim, but completely miss what the books are saying. Those who are real Christians allow the Holy Spirit to create in them a new creation, one like Jesus. Those who do such monstrosities are not being led by God, but men. You really cannot blame scripture for how people abuse it. You clearly show the side of religion without showing the side of a relationship with God. As for not mentioning denominations, then explain what you meant by "and the "gospel" preached by your pastors and leaders". This sure sounds like speaking about denominations since a pastor has to have a church denomination, even if it is called a nondenominational church. Perhaps you should read your own word as others will read them before posting to ensure what you want to say is what you are saying. So what? I am not allowed to mention my own experiences to judge what is right or wrong? Second, english is not my main language. So when I mentioned the Gospel, I meant the whole christianity aspect, as that is what it means here in Brazil. I see it caused quite a misunderstanding, but let me tell you something: Jesus taught us to love the others as we love ourselves, never judge, and spread love through our words. That is not what I saw from you, that came unto me with sticks and stones. All the other members were quite gentle with their comments and advices, and will cause me to have great insights for a long time. But you were the most rude person in this Forum. So far you are showing the opposite way of being a true christian. Congratulations for that.

Sorry, but I didn't understand that. Care to explain a bit more for me? For example, you applied for a job and you got an interview, but you want to know of this is a good job and if it is the will of God for you to work there. How do you get your response?

I don't think you have read my other posts. I went to the church since I was a little kid, until I was 20 years old. I am baptized, played in the youth group, and so on. I have accepted Jesus, read the bible, worshipped Him oftenly through songs (I loved Hillsong) and other means, etc. But that never proved me he existed. He never spoke to me, I never heard His voice. I felt Him close tho. But I need more than that. I want to understand Him. Today, I don't do any of these things, and I still feel Him close. Saying to submit is just a way of your own mind to feel safe and protected, thinking now you are saved by God. That is not what I am looking for. All of you are telling me to do things that I have already done, and that never changed anything in my life.

Hello Skyes... I am also another who went through something similar as you are going through. I went through all the same symptoms of doubt as you are having, and the more I searched through other means than God, the more my faith in God weakened. Have you noticed that your train of thought has changed ever since you began to be involved in wanting to find out the truth about the universe through other means than God? Many illusions are being created in your mind and life at this time, that's how the forbidden spiritual realms begin to overwhelm ones spirit, mind and life. The enemy is a master of illusions, it will eventually make everything that is bad for the spirit look good, and everything that is good for the spirit look bad; until the spirit, mind and soul are completely consumed by darkness, by the false light... I would recommend taking everyone's above advice, it's the only way out of this, and the longer you wait the harder it becomes to reprogram your mind to it's original self. It will be a battle to rid yourself of what you've filled yourself with, but all battles are won through the power of the Holy Spirit and there is nothing God cannot do when we completely surrender to Him. Look at Otherone and I, we more or less once were where you are, but now we are free and able to relate and understand what people like you are going through when they involve themselves in the ungodly spiritual realm. I hope that one day you can help others as well with what you are learning from this experience. God be with you... Thank you for your concerning, friend Could I ask you, how does God talk to you?

How do you know that? You can't say that without knowing it. I did trust in God, more than anything. I still do. You still think the bible is God's words, and that it is irrefutable, wich is prety sad. Most crimes commited by the catholic church in the inquisition derive from the same perspective. The muslims also use the Quran in the same way to explode people and go to "heaven", or the Torah, and so on. That is the problem. People don't think with their own minds anymore, they blindly belive in a book, and wage war against each other to proove wich book is the true God's word. It's quite sad, to be honest. And about your second comment, I never mentioned denominations. Read my post before saying it. And I am fairly sure you carry at least one preach from a pastor to base yourself with.

The bible contradicts itself many, many times. I do not belive the bible is the word of God anymore, and neither that we should follow everything that is written there. Examples: PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. Or PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. 1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." I cannot belive this is the word of God as well: And everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. 2 chronicles 15:13 Or And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Leviticus 21:9 I am sorry, but I fail to understand or see this as God. You also mentioned good people will go to hell because they didn't accept Jesus or belived he died for their sins. What of those that never heard of Jesus? Like the people from India, China, Japan, North and South America that lived a thousand years ago? You either believe the Bible or you do not.... if you do not, then what am I to say. You seem to want to use your logic rather than Gods word to judge what God says he is going to do..... i can't help if that's the case.... The Holy Spirit himself will have to deal with you and that will be my prayers for you. Sorry, as stated above, I don't belive the bible 100% anymore. The reason why you reject scripture is because it requires you to change, and you are refusing to change. You like your life and think it is far better then what He has to offer. You may not like certain aspects, by still, you prefer it over what you think He has for you. As for scripture, God move His people, by the Holy Spirit, to write His words for Him. Those whom He chose to do so walked close enough with God and rejected their "natural" life in exchange for His life for them. I realize that you cannot understand this right now, but that is the truth. I lived close to what I thought was God's word years ago. I did not masturbate, I didn't had sex, I did not drink a single drop of alcohol, and I prayed now and then. And I didn't do it out of fear, but because I loved Him. Until I realised it was about religiousity. Now, I am free from these bonds, and I can garantee that the life I have now is much better than the poor old me had back in those days. And I still feel God near me, but I want to understand Him better. I understand that your words are of help, because they make sense to you. But because you belive 100% in the bible, and the "gospel" preached by your pastors and leaders is rooted deep in your being now. But I don't see the bible or the gospel in the same way anymore.

Well, I have a huge difficulty identifying what is God's word, and what is the man's word in the bible. I do remember that they wrote that God forbids enchantments, necromancy, spells and such. But I also remember that they think God ordered to stone the prostitutes to death. I don't really belive God ordered that. That can't be the same God. Specially not after Jesus came and told the prostitue to go and sin no more. There are many things on the bible, specially in the old testament, that I don't agree with. There are moments when God even orders the Israel army to take and slaughter an entire country, including the animals and children. That don't sound like something that God would say. Specially not the God that Jesus represents (wich is the God I belive in). To your second question, I don't think if I understood it correctly. (sorry, english is not my main language), but the answer would be no. Why do you ask? That comes from your lack of understanding...... The prostitute that he told to go and sin no more was not brought to the priests according to the Law. Both parties had to be accused of that to be valid..... understanding what Jesus was writing in the sand caused all those there to accuse her to leave..... with no one there to accuse her Jesus had to tell her to go. It wasn't so much mercy on his part as it was that he was going strictly by the law... While we should no longer stone prostitutes or Homosexuals, we should also not support their lifestyles for we know that God does not approve of them..... but instead of killing them we should love them enough to get them to understand that God does not approve of thier lifestyle and has said that he will not let them enter into heaven. Also understand that being a homosexual person does not condemn them, but the actual things that Homosexual people do to please themselves will condemn them........ and just because they say they were made that way doesn't really count for I was made to want to mate with every female that is available around me....... but I have to not act on that desire for God condemns that just as he does homosexuality. Understand that a Homo person is really no worse than an adulterer. but like I said earlier, if you can't accept the Bible as Gods word to us, I don't think I can tell you any way to foment a relationship with him. Do you understand why God told them to destroy those peoples and even their animals???? But that's not my personal concern. Getting involved in real Magic and the Kabbalah is a very serious thing. both involve demonic forces you don't want involved in your life. Magic is not some harmless natural thing that you can learn to use. There are dark entities that make it work these days, just as it did before the Flood, and there are prices you pay that are not visible on the surface.. Sorry, I can't agree with that.I fail to see homossexuals, prostitutes and adulterers going to hell and being punnished for all eternity. And it is that kind of thing that is taking my faith and trust away from the bible. No, I don't understand why he told them to destroy them. I don't even remember the concept. Well, the magic you are mention is those practiced on stages. That is also not the magic I belive. Those are tricks made to impress people and earn money. They are all about illusions. But there are magics that are not related to illusions, and those are what I call real magic. Enchanting items, summoning entities, dominating the elements, and so on. To be quite blunt. Why would you expect God to answer your prayers and heal you when you are trying to cover all the bases. (With things satan is really enjoying seeing you do). What you are dabbling in are lies from the pit of hell. It's not God who is not listening to you, it is you who are so far from God that you cannot hear Him speak. Trash that rubbish and fall on your knees before God. Accept that you cannot be healed except through Him. Humble yourself and pray. There is no other sugar coated answer to this. Because He is mercyful? Or does He only answer to those that are following His path, and are already "saved"?

Well, I have a huge difficulty identifying what is God's word, and what is the man's word in the bible. I do remember that they wrote that God forbids enchantments, necromancy, spells and such. But I also remember that they think God ordered to stone the prostitutes to death. I don't really belive God ordered that. That can't be the same God. Specially not after Jesus came and told the prostitue to go and sin no more. There are many things on the bible, specially in the old testament, that I don't agree with. There are moments when God even orders the Israel army to take and slaughter an entire country, including the animals and children. That don't sound like something that God would say. Specially not the God that Jesus represents (wich is the God I belive in). To your second question, I don't think if I understood it correctly. (sorry, english is not my main language), but the answer would be no. Why do you ask?

Well, the magic you are mention is those practiced on stages. That is also not the magic I belive. Those are tricks made to impress people and earn money. They are all about illusions. But there are magics that are not related to illusions, and those are what I call real magic. Enchanting items, summoning entities, dominating the elements, and so on.

Yes, I did. I was even baptized 6 years ago. My father used to be a pastor from our local church, and I used to play guitar and sing in the youth band. I have aways been in the church, and grew up with the commandments of God. But I never really got those questions answered. Actually, I never asked them to our local pastors either. It is nice that you were brought up Christian, but I was digging a little deeper. DO you follow God in every way today? Is He first in your life? Well, to be honest, I used to be much closer to Him in the past. Today he is not the first anymore. I had great disappointments when it comes to church. I just can't agree with many principles that are being taught in the churches anymore. I think things are not so simple or black and white, as to simply say that homossexuals will go to hell, for example. God is much deeper and bigger than that, and I couldn't understand or find Him in religion anymore, so I backed off. And I don't know where to look for Him anymore. I miss the old days were I could just feel His presence and talk to Him all day as if He was by my side. But honestly, I can't stand going to the church anymore. Everything is so shallow, so wrong. I can't stand seeing people singing and preaching about prosperity while there are beggars right outside of the front door, and they don't do ANYTHING. The love is not being preached anymore... Try having a personal relationship with Him and you will understand His words. Religion is a dead end, where allowing Him to have a relationship with you will create in you a new person ... a reflection of Jesus. God is in His words, if you allow Him to speak to you and not try to pick what you want to accept of Him. How can I do that? I try praying every day when I wake up, before lunch, before dinner and before sleep. I used to listen to gospel songs (I liked Hillsong a lot). I tried reading the bible many times, but nothing happenned. When I close my eyes and pray, it seems like I am talking to no one. How can I listen to Him, and better yet, know that He is the one talking to me, instead of my own mind making things up? You are trying to do things systematically, being religious. Try talking to Him like you do with a friend whenever you have a minute. Take a long walk and talk with Him. Before you make decisions, ask His advice. Put Him first in your life and stop treating Him as if He was in some far off place and the only way to reach Him is through certain actions at certain times, like a conference call ... He is your best friend, if you let Him. Pour your heart out and listen to that little, quiet voice inside of you. I will try that thanks

Hi Skyes.... I've been reading along with the thread kind of taking things in and pretty much avoiding replying.... I could see things in your posts that raised red flags in the back of my mind, but they are extremely delicate to discuss..... First I hope I have the permission to speak frankly for I sense you're really kind of in danger..... you are in a place i barely escaped from with my soul about 35 years ago. To start with i would only say that your first problem to deal with is your relationship with the Lord. You seem to want to decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong, when at least some of the answers to your questions are plainly written in the Bible.... If you have not read the whole thing, then you are just relying on what other people have told you about it and what right and wrong might be...... As you seemed to have learned, that is a rather long circular endeavor for you will never get a consensus on that. You need to decide for yourself if you are willing to let Jesus be the Lord of your life..... and that's not a decision to take lightly...... when you do that you need to start reading the entire Bible for yourself and stop asking others what they think the Bible says..... but the rest is contingent on whether or not you ask Jesus to be the Lord of your life and really truly mean it. I can show you in the Bible why homosexuality is wrong, but if you are not going to accept the Bible as the word of God, it would do no good and it always seems to make threads go off into about three different directions..... Masturbation itself isn't really a sin, it's the lust that generally goes along with it that is not right. Most people who practice it use porn to excite themselves and that is pure lust and is not permitted. My largest worry concerns are your explanation of the effects of OCD, and the fact that you are looking into the spirit world both on the light side and the dark side without the covering protection of the Holy Spirit..... I can tell you from personal experience that the more you learn about magic and the dark spiritual forces, the more they relate to you and visit you on a personal level no matter whether or not you ask for it, or even want it. I can tell you from both personal experience that you as an individual without the direct protection of the Lord have absolutely no authority or power in the spirit realm and are at the total mercy of the dark forces...... they will simply swallow you up in time and there isn't s single thing you can do about it by yourself........ been there done that and have helped many others through the process of getting past it. So to go further I would have to have your permission to speak very frankly and ask some questions that you might not want to answer.... that is always ok too just say so. Thanks, both of you. Please, don't mind the long replies, the more information the better for me. I thirst for knowledge. I do think you both have good points, but I, at the same time, am tired of trying to approach God and have nothing but assumptions and theories. Other One, please, feel free to ask me any question, I will gladly answer them Thanks in advance.

Wow, I was just having this same conversation with a guy I work with. When I was younger, I would often pray "Is it your will, God, that I work at that place, or buy this car, or go to this restaurant, etc etc". Funny how I never got a direct answer: "Well, Mike, you should work at blah blah blah...". We cannot know what God is saying to us unless we have his word, the Bible in our minds and hearts. Paul says Rom 12:2 KJV - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, (renew your mind by reading, studying, pondering, memorizing his word) that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. How do we renew our mind? How are we transformed? How are we going to know the will of God? By reading and dwelling on his good word. The bible is not just a book. It is the Word of God. It is life to those who dwell on it and live by it. Heb 4:12 KJV - For the word of God is quick (alive, living, breathe, to be among the living) and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. When God talks to us, he does it through his word, through the verses that we have memorized, through the verses that we read, or through the verses that we know in our minds and in our hearts. Concerning sin, we are all born into sin. It is this physical body that we inhabit that is sinful. There is a battle that rages within us: one is of the flesh, and one is of the spirit. Remember these verses: Mat 26:41 KJV - Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Rom 7:23-25 KJV - But I see another law in my members (the flesh), warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. - O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? - I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. We are sinful beings. The blood of Christ is required to wash us and make us clean. It covers over our corruptible bodies, that we may put on incorruptible. We will put on the robe of righteousness in God's timing. Sin is a part of us, unfortunately, but we pray for strength and for God to not lead us into temptation, but to deliver us from evil. There is so much more to say. I hope what I have posted here is helpful. It did help a lot, friend. Thank you for taking your time to reply. I will have good insights with that Well, to be honest, I don't really see why it would be a sin. How come it is a sin to be homosexual? It is not their fault. It is not the fault of alcoholics to be the way they are as well. Even some thieves just steal to have enough to eat or to feed their children. I am not justifying all that, but I am trying to see how the problems are much deeper than most people think it is. I understand that we have fallen from grace in the past, and now we are living a life surrounded by sin. We are sinners, all of us, and we sin all the time. Today I understand that drinking is not a sin. (I don't know what you guys think) Being intoxicated is a sin. It is God who determins what is sin and what is not. It is our job to agree with Him, which is agreeing with what is said by the Holy Spirit in the Bible. People can be delivered from sin. Alcoholics can be delivered from the desire to drink and gays can be delivered from their desire for sex with a person of the same sex. It happens often in our church. It takes compassion and Godly love for the sinner. But they have to stop making excuses and agree with God that it is sin before anything good can happen. That takes humility. The person who steals food could have gone to the food bank or a mission for food. The reason that you can't make up your mind about what is sin could be because you don't want to admit something yet. Jesus, when speaking to the woman at the well didn't even answer her questions about where to worship. He told her she was living in sin. God gets to the heart of the issue. Read the New Testament to learn what God thinks is sin and don't listen to people. And don't rationalize your sins. They are what they are. I was raised to look for the deeper reasons and to make excuses for other people. It does help us undertand them and have compassion. But each person still is accountable to God. God isn't through with you yet. He is still calling you to walk with Him. Blessings, dear one, Willa Well, that can be true, but I still can't really understand why some things are sin. For example, why being homossexual is a sin? Why masturbation is a sin? People oftenly have the answers, but they are really shallow and they don't convince me. For example, you could say about homosexuality "Because God made a man and a woman". Ok, it makes sense, but that don't justify God sending a homossexual to hell to suffer for all eternity because of his sexual preference. One of my best friend is gay, and he is a christian, and I know how much he suffers with it. He don't want to be that way. He is sure that God hates him and that he is going to hell. But he is an extremelly good person. This computer I am using was his, he gave it to me when my comp died. How can someone like that go to hell? Yes, I did. I was even baptized 6 years ago. My father used to be a pastor from our local church, and I used to play guitar and sing in the youth band. I have aways been in the church, and grew up with the commandments of God. But I never really got those questions answered. Actually, I never asked them to our local pastors either. Skyes, you introduced yourself as being a spiritualist. Generally the practice of spiritualism is not of God. The use of illegal drugs can also come between you and God, especially hallucinogenics. I am just trying to think of things that could be seperating you from God and hindering you from having a healthy relationhip with Him. Thank you for your concern, friend. That really means a lot Well, I am studying a lot of philosophy and magic, Kaballah, and all kinds spiritualism. I want to understand the spiritual world, the rules that are applied to our universe. I tried studying the bible, but the religion itself was not enough for me. It didn't give me any concrete answer. I know the bible condemns the study of sorcery, but so far I haven't seen anything wrong or dark. I know this might cause a huge alarm on fellow christians, but I just couldn't stand being that guy who goes to the chuch every sunday with the bible under his arm trying to convince everyone about the gospel. I want to understand the world and the universe, and God, if possible.

Yes, I did. I was even baptized 6 years ago. My father used to be a pastor from our local church, and I used to play guitar and sing in the youth band. I have aways been in the church, and grew up with the commandments of God. But I never really got those questions answered. Actually, I never asked them to our local pastors either. It is nice that you were brought up Christian, but I was digging a little deeper. DO you follow God in every way today? Is He first in your life? Well, to be honest, I used to be much closer to Him in the past. Today he is not the first anymore. I had great disappointments when it comes to church. I just can't agree with many principles that are being taught in the churches anymore. I think things are not so simple or black and white, as to simply say that homossexuals will go to hell, for example. God is much deeper and bigger than that, and I couldn't understand or find Him in religion anymore, so I backed off. And I don't know where to look for Him anymore. I miss the old days were I could just feel His presence and talk to Him all day as if He was by my side. But honestly, I can't stand going to the church anymore. Everything is so shallow, so wrong. I can't stand seeing people singing and preaching about prosperity while there are beggars right outside of the front door, and they don't do ANYTHING. The love is not being preached anymore... Try having a personal relationship with Him and you will understand His words. Religion is a dead end, where allowing Him to have a relationship with you will create in you a new person ... a reflection of Jesus. God is in His words, if you allow Him to speak to you and not try to pick what you want to accept of Him. How can I do that? I try praying every day when I wake up, before lunch, before dinner and before sleep. I used to listen to gospel songs (I liked Hillsong a lot). I tried reading the bible many times, but nothing happenned. When I close my eyes and pray, it seems like I am talking to no one. How can I listen to Him, and better yet, know that He is the one talking to me, instead of my own mind making things up?

Well, to be honest, I don't really see why it would be a sin. How come it is a sin to be homosexual? It is not their fault. It is not the fault of alcoholics to be the way they are as well. Even some thieves just steal to have enough to eat or to feed their children. I am not justifying all that, but I am trying to see how the problems are much deeper than most people think it is. I understand that we have fallen from grace in the past, and now we are living a life surrounded by sin. We are sinners, all of us, and we sin all the time. I can understand that some things became part of our soul, so that is why we can't understand or identify what is a sin and what is not anymore. But this is also the root of many evils. I know of a girl that was the daughter of a pastor, and she went out to drink one night with her friends, hidden from her father. When her father found out what she did, he spanked her. Then she killed herself by throwing fire upon her own body. Today I understand that drinking is not a sin. (I don't know what you guys think). I still have a huge challenge understanding what is a sin and what is not. I feel like the church oftenly preaches fear and try to bind us, saying everything is a sin.