finestofthewheat

I have a good idea. Read the passage carefully and think for yourself. So read the reasons why both the taken and the left are saved in Matt. 24.40-42 or why death is not an escaping the hour of trial in Rev. 3.10 (only rapture is) or why not all Christians are watchful in Luke 21.36 to be kept from all these things that shall come to pass in the Tribulation.

If you would like to study more extensively the Partial Rapture Proof you can do so here, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm

I am glad you were not able to debunk the first rapture according to readiness in Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10. Thank you for your testimony in support of partial rapture.

All the main verses were given in this thread. I don't know how to overturn this evidence nor have you been able to so it stands simply for anyone to understand. Therefore, you have excluded yourself from being first raptured because you reject the first rapture according to readiness (you're an antinomian) and will not be "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven before the 1st trumpet (8.7). If you are a Christian you will be raptured at the start of the 7th trumpet instead assuming you are a Christian. Of course that's a big assumption considering your attitude.

The Church goes through the Tribulation except that only those who keep the word of His patience, are prayerful and watchful will escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world by being first raptured to the throne in 3rd heaven (Rev. 7.9) before the 1st trumpet is blown (8.7). Martyrs from the past 20 centuries are raptured and resurrected at the 1st trumpet according to the 5th Seal of those under the altar giving white robes (righteousnesses of the saints) and told to wait a little longer for the rest of the brethren to come in who are martyred during the Tribulation's 7 years. They are resurrected 3.5 days after they go to rest like Enoch and Elijah the Two Witnesses. We are appointed once to die; only Enoch and Elijah who return who were taken up have not yet died. Also, those alive at the first rapture who overcometh are raptured as well though not resurrected because they are raptured alive. Praise the Lord! And so those who are alive and left 42 months + 5 + 13 months after the start of the Tribulation are raptured alive with those who have been asleep since Adam that are saved (except the martyred since the martyred are rewarded with being taken at the 1st rapture). My prayer is you accept this Jesus when He returns, but first you must have the correct Jesus in your heart now to be ready for Him. Simple.

The 70th seven occurs at the end of this age commensurate with Jesus' parousia which spans 7 years. First Jesus meets the overcomers alive at the first rapture before the throne in 3rd heaven then Jesus comes on the cloud and through the cloud over 7 years to meet the saints in the air at the last trumpet. After that Jesus returns with His overcomers to step down on the mount of olives to reign on earth with them over the nations for 1000 years. Simple. In the middle of that 70th seven the covenant or peace treaty established is broken by Antichrist. Then ensues the Great Tribulation of 1260 days. The first 5 months or 1st woe people are not killed. But 1/3 of people die in the 2nd and 3rd woe. The 3rd woe contains the 7 bowls of wrath that lasts 24 months. At the end of those 1260 days Jesus steps down on the mount of olives and will judge the nations from the 1260th to the 1290th day. 30 days. Then Jesus will set up Israel as the center of all nations from the 1290th to the 1335 day (45 days more) from where He will reign in the 3rd Temple for 1000 years before the New City and New Earth commence. Many do not have faith to believe this so I can't call them my brothers in Christ. They worship another Jesus, a false Christ. Perhaps they claim Jesus is reigning now or they claim there is no rapture, nor according to readiness, so they live carnally.

Questions raised against separate rapture, and answers thereto, are submitted below. A. Some people say that the rapture of the church cannot be divided because the body of Christ cannot be divided. It should be noted in reply, however, that the body is a figure of speech which signifies one life. If the body is taken literally, then there is already division today because the Lord is now in heaven, Paul has already died, we remain living on earth, and some believers are yet to be born. B. Others object that rapture is part of redemption, that since redemption is according to grace, rapture cannot be based on the concept of worthiness. In reply, it needs to be pointed out that while the act of changing (see 1 Cor. 15.51-52) is indeed according to grace, the act of being taken (rapture) is according to works. C. Some observers ask, is it not rather cruel to take away hope from the church? To which we must answer that in the Scriptures there is no such false hope given; and therefore it is better to alert people to this fact. D. I Corinthians 15.23, say some, only mentions “they that are Christ’s” and that nothing is said about works. But let us be aware that this verse does not speak of rapture, it speaks of resurrection. E. Since the dead will not go through the Great Tribulation, would it not be unfair to the living for them to go through it? Will not the righteous God be unjust in this regard? In response, let me say that we do need to be concerned; for during the millennium each and every believer (including all believers who died prior to the Great Tribulation) will receive, as a consequence of appearing before Christ’s judgment seat, the things done in the body while alive, according to what he has done whether it be good or bad (2 Cor. 5.10). F. Since in 1 Cor. 15:50-52 (“We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed”) “all” is the word used, surely this signifies the whole body. Yes, the “all” here does indeed refer to the entire body, but it does not have reference to the same time. For example, we all will die, but certainly not all of us will do so in one day. G. There is a distinction made in the Bible between wheat and tares, some say, but no difference made between wheat and wheat; consequently, all wheat must be raptured. In reply, it should be noted that the times of ripening for wheat are not the same. Thus there are the firstfruits and the later harvest. H. Some argue that according to I Thessalonians 4.15, the living “shall in no wise precede them who are fallen asleep” -The dead are resurrected at the seventh trumpet; and so timewise, rapture occurs after the Tribulation. Now if there is a first rapture, it will have to take place before the resurrection of the dead. But since this verse distinctly says “shall in no wise,” how then can rapture take place twice? Let me say in reply that it is most precious and significant to find in both verse 15 and verse 17 the qualifying clauses “we that are alive, that are left” - Now to be alive is obviously to be left on earth; why, then, is there this apparent unnecessary repetition? Because it implies that there are people who though alive yet have already gone ahead (that is, raptured) and therefore are no longer left on earth. Would Paul enlist himself among this class of people who are alive and are left? Not at all. He uses the word “we” only because he is speaking at that moment of writing, and the proof of this is that since Paul no longer lives today, he cannot be numbered among those who are left on earth. Our summary conclusion to all this is that the partial rapture view is the correct one - that is to say, that one group of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation according to readiness while another group of believers will go through the Tribulation and be raptured afterwards.

Since Daniel's 70th seven hasn't started yet it will yet occur. The 1260 days is half the 70th seven since all the sevens are 2,520 days each. Pretty simple. 1 Thess. 4.14-18 is not the partial rapture. Rather, 1 Thess. 4.14-18 is the general rapture and resurrection at at the start of the 7th trumpet. Whereas the partial first rapture is seen in Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10 "before the throne" (7.9) before the 1st trumpet (8.7) of the 7 trumpets is blown. Again, very simple. What do these passages say? They say in order to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world at the end of this age one needs not only to be born-again, but prayerful, watchful, keep the word His patience and maintain the conduct of Matt. 5-7. Very simple. Thus, the first rapture at the start of Daniel's final seven is according to readiness, whereas the rapture and resurrection at the start of the 7th trumpet (Rev. 11.15, 1 Thess. 4.14-18, 1 Cor. 15.23,50-52) is according to completion of all those who are alive and left that had not been taken at the first rapture. Simple. You asked about the 7 bowls of wrath. The 7 bowls of wrath are contained in the 7th trumpet. The saints alive and left are raptured at the start of the 7th trumpet. 24 months of the bowls of wrath take place before Jesus steps down on the mount of olives because Jesus returns not at the start of the 7th trumpet but at the end of the 7th trumpet which is the end of the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation which is the end of the 7 years of the Tribulation Daniel's 70th seven. You're misreading. I never said a person can lose salvation based on their works. I am OSAS Arminian. I believe those born-again are once saved always saved "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). So not being first raptured is due to works; such a person will have to wait to be raptured at the 7th trumpet instead for they were not ready to be received at the first rapture according to readiness. Simple.

All of Daniel's sevens are 2,520 days each. So is Daniel's final seven. Half way through the final seven is the Great Tribulation lasting 1260 days. Hence, there are 42 months in Rev. 8 in the first four trumpets. That leaves 5 months for the 1st woe or 5th trumpet in Rev. 9; 13 months for the 2nd woe or 6th trumpet; and 24 months for the 3rd woe or 7th trumpet. Luke 21.36 is the first rapture. "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." So what happens if you are not watchful and prayerful? You won't be accounted worthy to escape the Tribulation that is to come to pass to stand before the Son of Man. This may be too distasteful for you, but the fact remains, not all Christians are raptured at the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven, before the 1st (8.7) of 7 trumpets are blown.

Luke 21 Shortly Before the Tribulation the First Rapture According to Readiness 25 “And there will be strange signs in the sun, moon, and stars [Rev. 6.12,13 Haiti 2010, Japan 2011, Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 solar, and 2014/15 Tetrad]. And here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. 26 People will be terrified at what they see coming upon the earth, for the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then everyone will see the Son of Man coming on a cloud with power and great glory. 28 So when all these things begin to happen, stand and look up, for your salvation is near!” First Jesus meets overcomers raptured alive at the first rapture before the throne in 3rd heaven. Then Jesus returns on the cloud through the Tribulation period to meet the saints in the air at the 7th trumpet. The meeting the saints in the air at the last trumpet takes place at a time before when Jesus returns to step down on the mount of olives. These two events are separated by a 24 month period of the 7th trumpet. When Jesus returns He does not return with all the saints He meet in the air, only those who are overcomers part of the man-child the advanced party of overcomers. 29 Then he gave them this illustration: “Notice the fig tree [representing Israel a nation again], or any other tree [any other nation]. 30 When the leaves come out, you know without being told that summer is near [nations fully developed like today]. 31 In the same way, when you see all these things taking place, you can know that the Kingdom of God is near [Millennial Kingdom]. 32 I tell you the truth, this [wicked] generation will not pass from the scene until all these things have taken place. 33 Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. 34 “Watch out! Don’t let your hearts be dulled by carousing and drunkenness, and by the worries of this life. Don’t let that day catch you unaware, 35 like a trap. For that day will come upon everyone living on the earth. 36 Keep alert at all times. And pray that you might be strong enough to escape these coming horrors [of the Tribulation] and stand before the Son of Man.” This is the first rapture that is according to readiness otherwise known as partial rapture. To be martyred does not constitute escaping these coming horrors. Martyrdom itself is a horror. Therefore, the only way God can make this promise to us to escape these horrors of the 7 year Tribulation is by being first raptured. Pray on this clear word of Scripture as I pray for your understanding.

Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10 and Matt. 24.40-42 prove the first rapture according to readiness "before the throne" in 3rd heaven (Rev. 7.9) before the 1st trumpet of the Tribulation (8.7). The general rapture and resurrection happens at the start of the 7th trumpet (Rev. 11.15, 1 Cor. 15.23,50-52; 1 Thess. 4.14-18). There are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere and so it is with the rapture. It is a comparing of wheat with wheat. There are 1260 days in Rev. 8. And 1260 days in Rev. 9 to 11. Rev. 9 says there are 5 months to the 5th trumpet, 13 months to the 6th trumpet which leaves 24 months to the 7th trumpet. Simple. I find Revelation the easiest book of the Bible to understand. You need to start with proper foundation of realizing the 6 Seals are the past 20 centuries; 7th Seal opens up the 7 trumpets of the Tribulation, and the 7th trumpet pours out the 7 bowls of wrath over 24 months. It's like a lock tumbler. Here's a test question: How many months are there before the last trumpet? ANSWER BELOW 84 - 24 = 58 months.

The dead in Christ will be caught up together at the same time as those who are alive and left (who were not 'taken' beforehand). The first rapture according to readiness has not taken place yet so no man is in 3rd heaven yet. 1 Thess. 4.14-18 in agreement with 1 Cor. 15.50-52 happens not at the first trumpet at the start of the Tribulation but the last trumpet, the 7th trumpet. Whereas the first rapture is at Rev. 7.9 "before the throne" in 3rd heaven before the 1st trumpet (8.7). When you read Revelation Rev. 7 to 11 are the major points of the Tribulation, and Rev. 12 to 19 are the details of those major points. Rev. 2 & 3 are the 7 church periods. Rev. 4 is the picture of the universe from heaven. Rev. 5 recounts the cross. And Rev. 6 is the past 20 centuries. The 1st Seal recounts the cross as a bow and arrow that looks like a cross, but the arrow has been shot giving Satan a deadly wound by the cross. There is no last trumpet for the Church. There are 7 trumpets of the Tribulation. There is not two different trumpets. God would not so confuse. Christians do not follow Roman tradition of trumpets. Rev. 1.10 is not a trumpet but the "voice as of a trumpet." Whereas the 7 trumpets are actual 7 trumpets. Immortalizing, the term you use, does not take place until the raptures and resurrections.

=============================================================================================================== As I said (Again).... I wasn't "arguing" I Thessalonians 4.15, I was arguing 1 Thess 4:16-18. Do me a Favor, when you Reference Scripture, instead of "(7:9)" go ahead and put Book Chapter and Verse or better yet CITE the Verse in Question.... (Revelation 7:9) "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;" This is speaking to "Tribulation Saints" not "The Church". John didn't recognize them as he has to ask who they are.... (Revelation 7:13-14) "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Also, Please show Jesus coming in the Clouds and gathering them before Revelation 7:9.....? No they are not the same. The "trump of GOD", "the last trump", and the "7th Trumpet" are not the same. (1 Thessalonians 4:16) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" (1 Corinthians 15:50-52) "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Moreover, and this is getting convoluted, please show where the "Rapture" is after this....the Seventh Trumpet: (Revelation 11:15) "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." .....?? Factually Incorrect. Christ's Bride is "The Church".... (2 Corinthians 11:2) "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." (Ephesians 5:31-32) "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. {32} This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." Also he does return with "his armies" besides HIS Bride ("The Church"): (Revelation 19:14-16) "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." But that doesn't Preclude the Fact that "The Church" is HIS Bride. I agree....kudos to you, most are not aware of this; However, that doesn't Preclude the Fact that those that are HIS Bride are Born Again Christians/ "The Church". You failed to address these... A. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words." It doesn't say "some or part of the dead shall rise" or "some or part of we which are alive and remain". This is speaking to ALL Born Again Christians/"The Church" Dead and Alive. So you're left with not only no Scriptural Support, but clearly portrays the exact opposite of your position. B. Your position for Post Trib is that The Church/Born Again Christians go through the Great Tribulation. Well 98% of The Church/Born Again Christians are DEAD (From Pentecost until it's now or when it's time). So for the "Church" to go through the "Great Tribulation" on the Earth....They would have to be RESURRECTED and Walking around on the Earth so as to go through The Great Tribulation. Please show this scenario in Scripture....? I am not a posttribber onlyist. I am a partial rapture believer. I believe the first rapture is according to readiness according to Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10 "before the throne" in 3rd heaven to stand before the Son of Man (7.9) which is before the 1st trumpet (8.7) is blown of the Tribulation. There are 7 trumpets of the Tribulation. The first four trumpets are Rev. 8. The last 3 trumpets or 3 woes are from Rev. 9 to 11. Then Rev. 12 to 19 give the details of these major points. 1 Thess. 4.15 is similar to v. 16 and v. 17. Rev. 7 is not referring to Tribulation saints. It's referring to the tribulation of the past 20 centuries. Those first raptured are sen in Rev. 7 and would include all overcomers. Rev. 12 is very similar to Rev. 7 as they are the man child overcomers. The last trumpet and "the trump" of God are the same trumps. At the 7th trumpet in the twinkling of an eye. The 1st trumpet is not the last trumpet. First Jesus meets the overcomers at the throne in 3rd heaven then through the Tribulation on the cloud then at the 7th trumpet He meets them in the air. Then He steps down on the mount of olives with the overcomers to reign over the nations for 1000 years. The Church is the Bride, but in Rev. 19 we see the bride are those who first overcometh of the Church to receive the reward of reigning like the 5 wise virgins. An advanced party if you will. You failed to respond to this, Some argue as you have done that according to I Thessalonians 4.15, the living “shall in no wise precede them who are fallen asleep” - The dead are resurrected at the seventh trumpet; and so timewise, rapture occurs after the Tribulation. Now if there is a first rapture, it will have to take place before the resurrection of the dead. But since this verse distinctly says “shall in no wise,” how then can rapture take place twice? Let me say in reply that it is most precious and significant to find in both verse 15 and verse 17 the qualifying clauses “we that are alive, that are left” - Now to be alive is obviously to be left on earth; why, then, is there this apparent unnecessary repetition? Because it implies that there are people who though alive yet have already gone ahead (that is, raptured) and therefore are no longer left on earth. Would Paul enlist himself among this class of people who are alive and are left? Not at all. He uses the word “we” only because he is speaking at that moment of writing, and the proof of this is that since Paul no longer lives today, he cannot be numbered among those who are left on earth. Our summary conclusion to all this is that partial rapture is the correct view - that is to say, that one group of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation according to readiness while another group of believers will go through the Tribulation and be raptured afterwards.

======================================================================================================================= You didn't answer this.... Furthermore and above all, please show where it says anything other than ALL.... (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words." ?? It doesn't say "some or part of the dead shall rise" or "some or part of we which are alive and remain". This is speaking to ALL Born Again Christians/"The Church" Dead and Alive. So you're left with not only no Scriptural Support, but clearly portrays the exact opposite of your position. Factually Incorrect. Show Scripture Support for the "7th" Trumpet with a concurrent Rapture? Also, please don't Equivocate (Fallacy) the "7th Trumpet" with "the trump of GOD". (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words." This is speaking to The Church/Born Again Christians....ALL of them Dead and Alive. Your position for Post Trib is that The Church/Born Again Christians go through the Great Tribulation. Well 98% of The Church/Born Again Christians are DEAD (From Pentecost until it's now or when it's time). So for the "Church" to go through the "Great Tribulation" on the Earth....They would have to be RESURRECTED and Walking around on the Earth so as to go through The Great Tribulation. Please show this scenario in Scripture....? And it says...."we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds". Together with who? The DEAD. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) is one event where the DEAD (Born Again Christians/"The Church") are raised first then Immediately the "Alive" (Born Again Christians/"The Church")...are caught up together. What you're attempting to contrive (Post Great Trib Rapture) is simply not there. Moreover....How does Christ Return with HIS Bride ("The Church"/Born Again Christians) Rev 19, or have the Marriage Supper in Heaven Rev 19, with HIS BRIDE ("The Church"/ Born Again Christians).......if they're still on the Earth awaiting Rapture? I wasn't "arguing" I Thessalonians 4.15, I was arguing 1 Thess 4:16-18. (1 Thessalonians 4:15) "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." All Verse 15 is saying that the DEAD will Rise First followed by the Alive which is then Reiterated in Verse 17. I already said, Some argue as you have done that according to I Thessalonians 4.15, the living “shall in no wise precede them who are fallen asleep” - The dead are resurrected at the seventh trumpet; and so timewise, rapture occurs after the Tribulation. Now if there is a first rapture, it will have to take place before the resurrection of the dead. But since this verse distinctly says “shall in no wise,” how then can rapture take place twice? Let me say in reply that it is most precious and significant to find in both verse 15 and verse 17 the qualifying clauses “we that are alive, that are left” - Now to be alive is obviously to be left on earth; why, then, is there this apparent unnecessary repetition? Because it implies that there are people who though alive yet have already gone ahead (that is, raptured) and therefore are no longer left on earth. Would Paul enlist himself among this class of people who are alive and are left? Not at all. He uses the word “we” only because he is speaking at that moment of writing, and the proof of this is that since Paul no longer lives today, he cannot be numbered among those who are left on earth. Our summary conclusion to all this is that partial rapture is the correct view - that is to say, that one group of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation according to readiness while another group of believers will go through the Tribulation and be raptured afterwards. The 1st trumpet is in Rev. 8.7. Before this is the first rapture that is according to readiness "before the throne" (7.9) in 3rd heaven. 1 Thess. 4.14-18, 1 Cor. 15.50-52 and Rev. 11.15 are at the last trumpet, at the start of the 7th trumpet. So consider this second rapture, and also a resurrection, to be not according to readiness but according to completion of all those saints alive and left along with those saints who have been asleep. The bride that Jesus returns with is not all Christians. Though all Christians are saved and have eternal life and will be the inhabitants of the New City, only a small fraction of Christians (1/7th as only Philadelphia was an overcomer church) will get to enter the marriage feast of reigning over the nations for 1000 years. They are the 5 wise virgins while the 5 unwise lose this reward. In Rev. 19 the bride is treated differently than in the epistles. The bride is the whole church, but for the purposes of reigning over the nations for 1000 years, the bride in the marriage feast is unto rewards - the "man child" overcomers (Rev. 12).

ARGOSY, If "thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3.10). The "hour of trial" does refer to Jesus' second coming which commences first with the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven to stand before the Son of the Man that is according to readiness before the 1st of 7 trumpets is blown (8.7). Then Jesus through the 7 years (His parousia) comes on the cloud, through the cloud, to meet the saints in the air at the last trumpet (1 Thess. 4.14-18; 1 Cor. 15.50-52). 24 moths after the 7th trumpet is blown, Jesus steps down on the mount of olives in His second coming (Zech. 14.4, Acts 1.11, Rev. 1.7). For 30 days more after than He judges the nations from the 1260th to the 1290th day. Then for 45 days more after that to the 1335 day He sets up Israel as the center of all nations from where He will reign in the 3rd Temple 1000 years. It would not make much sense for the hour of trial to refer to solely Jesus on earth and not the rest of His parousia because Rev. 3.10 clearly says if the Christian acts in such a way, he will be kept from the hour of trial. To be kept from Jesus makes no sense in this interpretation of yours. So the hour of trial must entail all that is part of Daniel's final seven. What a wonderful blessing to be kept from the hour of trial if we meet the condition set forth in Scripture, thus ready to be received at that time. It makes perfect sense for Jesus to tell Christians to be watchful before the Tribulation, to be prayerful, keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7, and to keep the word of His patience before the Tribulation begins in order to be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass in the final 7. Luke 21.36 proves that not the entire church but only a part of it will be raptured before the Tribulation. Verse 34 has a change in tone from the preceding verses, verse 35 shows that the things mentioned earlier concern the whole inhabited world, and verse 36 presents the condition for escaping the Great Tribulation - which is to watch and pray. How are believers to escape all these coming things and to stand before the Son of man? Naturally by being raptured. Death is not a blessing: we do not pray and expect death. The condition here for rapture is to watch and pray. Hence here, not all the regenerated may be raptured. Pray always. What to pray for? Pray that we may escape all these things which shall come to pass. “That ye may prevail” (or, “ye may be accounted worthy” AV), It is not a question of grace, but rather a matter of worthiness. How about worthiness? God cannot receive you to the place where you have no desire to go. Some people may consider heaven as too tasteless a place in which to live as may be indicated by these words: “Lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” (v.34). If a balloon is tied, it cannot ascend. In sum, Luke 21.36 shatters the arguments of rapture of the whole church before the Tribulation or after the Tribulation. Some may still raise other arguments, such as (1) that rapture is not dependent on conduct - yet in reply it should be asked whether anyone thinks a carnal believer lying on a bed of fornication will be raptured? Or (2) that the phrase “all these things” does not refer to the Great Tribulation but to the surfeiting, drunkenness, and cares of this life cited in verse 34. In reply, it should be noted that verse 36 reads, “all these things that shall come to pass" - whereas “surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” pertain to the things which are present now. And therefore, “watch ye” means to not be deceived by such activities. "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21.36). ========================================================================================================================= Where does it say, let alone even imply, a Partial Rapture??.... (Luke 21:36) " Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." (Luke 21:34-35) "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. {35} For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth." In verse 34 and 35 he's juxtaposing Earth Dwellers/Unbelievers and "Yourselves" (Christians) in much the same way Paul does here... (1 Thessalonians 5:1-4) "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. {2} For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. {3} For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. {4} But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief." They that say "Peace and Safety" = (Unbelievers/Earth Dwellers) Juxtaposed with "But ye, brethern" (Christians). Moreover....In Luke, Christ didn't reveal "The Mystery of The Church". It wasn't made known until it was Paul's Honor to reveal it..... (Ephesians 3:1-8) "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, {2} If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: {3} How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, {4} Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) {5} Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; {6} That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: {7} Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. {8} Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;" Furthermore and above all, please show where it says anything other than ALL.... (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. {18} Wherefore comfort one another with these words." ?? It doesn't say "some or part of the dead shall rise" or "some or part of we which are alive and remain". This is speaking to ALL Born Again Christians/"The Church" Dead and Alive. So you're left with not only no Scriptural Support, but clearly portrays the exact opposite of your position. As ountlined above, it does no such thing. Read more carefully. You are missing key points in the text that I for one cannot overlook as you do. Let us not be guilty for shutting your mind down to the text. Why ask for was already given? "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." If you are not watchful you will not be worthy to escape the Tribulation that is to come upon the whole world to stand before the Son of Man in 3rd heaven. [Luk 21:34-36 KJV] 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Luke 21.36 proves that not the entire church but only a part of it will be raptured before the Tribulation. The accounts of Luke 21 and Matthew 24 are quite alike, except that Matthew stresses more the coming of Christ and the Tribulation while Luke focuses more on the destruction of Jerusalem and the Tribulation. Hence there is the famous question asked in Matthew (24.3), and there are also more parables recorded in Matthew’s account than in Luke’s. In 70 A.D. Jerusalem experienced a terrible destruction, and at the end she will experience a great tribulation. The record in Luke can be outlined as follows: 2 1.8-9 - the things before the end; 10-19 - believers will suffer; 20-28 - how Jerusalem will be destroyed (verse 28 seems to suggest that the saints will all pass through the Tribulation); 29-33 - a parable guaranteeing the certainty of these things to come; and 34-36 - Were it not for this passage, it might be inferred that the whole body of believers would surely be raptured after the Tribulation: yet verse 34 has a change in tone from the preceding verses, verse 35 shows that the things mentioned earlier concern the whole inhabited world, and verse 36 presents the condition for escaping the Great Tribulation - which is to watch and pray. How are believers to escape all these coming things and to stand before the Son of man? Naturally by being raptured. Death is not a blessing: we do not pray and expect death. The condition here for rapture is to watch and pray. Hence here, not all the regenerated may be raptured. Pray always. What to pray for? Pray that we may escape all these things which shall come to pass. “That ye may prevail” (or, “ye may be accounted worthy” AV), It is not a question of grace, but rather a matter of worthiness. How about worthiness? God cannot receive you to the place where you have no desire to go. Some people may consider heaven as too tasteless a place in which to live as may be indicated by these words: “Lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” (v.34). If a balloon is tied, it cannot ascend. In sum, Luke 21.36 shatters the arguments of both the pre and post tribber onlyists. The second school may still raise other arguments, such as (1) that rapture is not dependent on conduct - yet in reply it should be asked whether anyone thinks a carnal believer lying on a bed of fornication will be raptured? Or (2) that the phrase “all these things” does not refer to the Great Tribulation but to the surfeiting, drunkenness, and cares of this life cited in verse 34. In reply, it should be noted that verse 36 reads, “all these things that shall come to pass" - whereas “surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” pertain to the things which are present now. And therefore, “watch ye” means to not be deceived by such activities. Some argue as you have done that according to I Thessalonians 4.15, the living “shall in no wise precede them who are fallen asleep” -The dead are resurrected at the seventh trumpet; and so timewise, rapture occurs after the Tribulation. Now if there is a first rapture, it will have to take place before the resurrection of the dead. But since this verse distinctly says “shall in no wise,” how then can rapture take place twice? Let me say in reply that it is most precious and significant to find in both verse 15 and verse 17 the qualifying clauses “we that are alive, that are left” - Now to be alive is obviously to be left on earth; why, then, is there this apparent unnecessary repetition? Because it implies that there are people who though alive yet have already gone ahead (that is, raptured) and therefore are no longer left on earth. Would Paul enlist himself among this class of people who are alive and are left? Not at all. He uses the word “we” only because he is speaking at that moment of writing, and the proof of this is that since Paul no longer lives today, he cannot be numbered among those who are left on earth. Our summary conclusion to all this is that partial rapture is the correct view - that is to say, that one group of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation according to readiness while another group of believers will go through the Tribulation and be raptured afterwards.