hamletcat

This is great advice, thank you everybody. I found it very helpful.

Hi, I have some "difficult" people in my life and I need advice on how to improve my relationships with them. In the past, I found that I used to just walk away after conversations with them feeling like I had just been "abused," and if it happened to many times I would just eventually just avoid talking to them altogether. Now I realize through the teachings of Jesus, that it is important to try to work through these difficult relationships. But I need some help or advice from people that have had this type of experience. Some typical behaviours is "starting arguments," "putting me down, so that they can have their own way," "not letting a heated discussion just die," "refusing to change their behaviour, when it hurts other people," and "always needing to be right." Anyone have any experiences with these types of issues in personal relationships? Can you share your experiences and offer some advice. Thanks so much.

Thank you very much everybody. Your responses have been extremely helpful in clearing up a few things for me.

Hi, I was wondering if people can share the process for how they communicate with god or get to know his will. And if so, how you know it is authentic communication with god. Thanks so much.

Yes, thank you so much. I understand it a lot more. I tend to think worldly which is why I have so much trouble understanding scripture, but I am getting better at it. I really appreciate you explaining it this way.

Ok, thanks everybody. I have been working in the service industry for 18 years, and I have helped many individuals and they have been very thankful for what I have done for them. I am not afraid of helping people, even those with severe illnesses. I have helped prevent two suicides and one murder, and even though those cases are challenging, it has been worth the effort I believe. I have never received a clear message from god that this isn't the "chosen path for me." On the other hand I do hear what everyone is saying. Some of the people I work with are Christians and one of the reasons I came to this site to get advice for helping people of faith. I thought that if I could relate some concepts to their beliefs, then it would be easier for them to understand. But I guess for now I can just tell them to attend their church, where I live there isn't really any "faith-based" counselling. I am sort of on my own. Many of them don't have the money to travel long distances to find proper "faith-based" counselling. But maybe just going to church will be what they need. Once again, thanks for everyones input.

Now I finally understand. Thank you so much. So now we owe Jesus, in a way for dying the death we deserved. That makes sense.

None of us completely understand it. You're right: It doesn't "make sense." What makes sense is that God should destroy humanity for our sin. That's what we deserve. It makes sense that sinners should go to hell. But God loved us enough to find a way to redeem us without compromising His holiness. That is at the heart of why Jesus died. Jesus took our death penalty. He paid the price we owed. He took on the weight our sin when He died. He sacrificed Himself so that we could be forgiven. So is it like Jesus offered his own life in trade for God destroying humanity instead?

Well thanks everyone, I guess I will leave it at that then. I appreciate everyone's response to my question, and questions.

Can someone please explain why "Jesus died on the cross for our sins to save us, and set us straight with god." As though I am completely new to Christian beliefs. Because I am really not understanding, it doesn't make sense at all. I have heard all these words before and read the scripture, but I still don't understand it.

We don't "atone" for sin. Making restitution is one thing. That's good, but that doesn't atone for sin in the ultimate sense. Yes, Jesus death was the ultimate sacrifice. But no, we did not give up Jesus. Jesus was given to us by God (John 3:16) God sent His Son to die for us. We didn't give up Jesus to the Father. He gave up Jesus for us. Jesus canceled out the curse that was upon mankind because of Adam's sin. So then is it like this: God sent us his son (the treasure) but then said I am also going to take him away, in trade for Adam's sins? No, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Jesus died, was buried and was raised from the dead and as a result we now have forgiveness of sins and eternal love. Jesus isn't take away, nor was Jesus traded for Adam's sin. Jesus paid the penalty for Adam's sin by His death on the cross. Because Jesus was raised from the dead and lives eternally we have assurance of eternal life when we accept as our Savior. Furthermore, God did not take Him away. Jesus lives in our hearts in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you; I am with you always, even to the end of the world." So Jesus had to die in order to live through us? Jesus had to die so we could live in Him. He is eternal life and He is in us and we are in Him. He lives in us in the Person of the Holy Spirit. But we also live in Him. We were placed in Christ the minute we were saved (Rom. 6:3-4). So yes. Jesus died so that He could live in us through us. So the atonement is with God through Adam's sin. So Jesus had to die so we could like with Christ, and this is what sets us right with god? If Jesus had lived we would never have this relationship with Christ and therefore never be right with god. Why couldn't it just have waited until Jesus died of old age?

We don't "atone" for sin. Making restitution is one thing. That's good, but that doesn't atone for sin in the ultimate sense. Yes, Jesus death was the ultimate sacrifice. But no, we did not give up Jesus. Jesus was given to us by God (John 3:16) God sent His Son to die for us. We didn't give up Jesus to the Father. He gave up Jesus for us. Jesus canceled out the curse that was upon mankind because of Adam's sin. So then is it like this: God sent us his son (the treasure) but then said I am also going to take him away, in trade for Adam's sins? No, God sent His Son to die for our sins. Jesus died, was buried and was raised from the dead and as a result we now have forgiveness of sins and eternal love. Jesus isn't take away, nor was Jesus traded for Adam's sin. Jesus paid the penalty for Adam's sin by His death on the cross. Because Jesus was raised from the dead and lives eternally we have assurance of eternal life when we accept as our Savior. Furthermore, God did not take Him away. Jesus lives in our hearts in the Person of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you; I am with you always, even to the end of the world." So Jesus had to die in order to live through us?

We don't "atone" for sin. Making restitution is one thing. That's good, but that doesn't atone for sin in the ultimate sense. Yes, Jesus death was the ultimate sacrifice. But no, we did not give up Jesus. Jesus was given to us by God (John 3:16) God sent His Son to die for us. We didn't give up Jesus to the Father. He gave up Jesus for us. Jesus canceled out the curse that was upon mankind because of Adam's sin. So then is it like this: God sent us his son (the treasure) but then said I am also going to take him away, in trade for Adam's sins?

I don't really understand what you mean. Can you try explaining it again, using a different approach. I am having trouble "seeing" what you are saying here.

Thank you! I just figured out where I am probably going wrong. Other opinions are still welcome, I think the "fog" is starting to lift now.

When I thought I was an atheist, my personal atonement for sin was to ask forgiveness to the person I hurt, and then do something to make it up to them. If that wasn't possible, ie. someone in my past that I no longer have contact with, then I would ask forgiveness from myself (my mind) and then make it up to mankind in some way. My understanding of the significance of Jesus's death is that his death was the "ultimate sacrifice." We gave up something very precious (Jesus) and because of that we are "square with god." Adam's sin in trade for Jesus. Does that make sense? I have been told that I am wrong about this by other Christians, so I don't know if this is right.

I often try to help other Christians who have mental illnesses because I have a background in psychology. Typically what I do is discuss aspects of Christian beliefs and try to relate it to what they are going through personally. Sometimes what I say is really helpful, but sometimes I get stuck when I tell them to "pray to the father and ask for forgiveness." Sometimes when they do this it doesn't work. In other words, the weight of sin is so heavy (guilt etc.) that prayer to the father doesn't release them from their suffering. So then I tell them to try "atonement" for sin. I tell them to try to make it up to whomever they felt they hurt. But then I wonder, is that really what Jesus said to do? It sounds logical but I think that is my own idea, not what Jesus said to do. Any opinions about this approach? Is there something else I could be doing that might be better? I'm pretty new to Christian faith so I need some guidance. Thanks so much.

Hi, I have been asked about whether or not I had access to something that was a good summary of Jesus's moral teachings. I have the link to the Jefferson bible, but it is a difficult read because it is written in old english. I would prefer something that summarizes many of his teachings but in modern english. Something I could pass on to people who don't really consider themselves Christians but through contact with me have taken an interest in Christian beliefs. This would really be helpful if anyone could provide me something like this, either their own post or some type of link. I am very excited that some atheists in my life have an interest in Jesus and this could really be helpful.

Hi, I was wondering about this topic. I know atonement for sin was animal sacrifices in the Old Testament, but how is it dealt with in the New Testament? What is the atonement for sin in the New Testament, I don't remember reading anything about it.

Hi. I want to thank everyone for the contribution to this post. Please do not post on this thread anymore because it needs to be deleted. If I can't figure out how to do it myself, I will ask a moderator to do it for me.

As far as I know no one is calling Jesus a zombie.

Most Christians Again, who is leading this group? It seems to me that this group needs some solid pastoral leadership and there are members in your group in desperate need of discipleship. Wow, this is extremely helpful and it changes everything. This is exactly what is going on. It is the minister at the church where the bible study is held, that is leading the group. And sometimes he does add a bit of context that helps, but some people don't really listen to what he says so they miss the significance. He has also told me that he doesn't really like discussing aspects of Christianity with atheists, and he prefers to avoid discussions with them. He says it never goes anywhere useful. He's a great leader though, his sermons are really good and I think would inspire atheists.

I wish it had been presented to me this way, this makes a lot of sense and doesn't make me feel like "god hates my good works." I am not sure it was meant that way, but that was how it came across the way it was presented. Thank you.

Well this is all very enlightning. Thank you everyone. I used to think I was an "atheist," but since starting to read the bible, going to church and talking to other Christians, I have discovered that I was never really an "atheist" I just thought I was. I will say I was not on track to the gift of eternal life, because I was in the dark, however that is because I believed I was an atheist and therefore lived that way. I still function around atheists most often in my daily life and my hope is to one day bring them from the dark into light. The way it happened for me, but of course, I also realize that it might be difficult, so these posts really help in my quest to do that. It is too bad that things can get "messy" with online forums, because I find them a great source of information and they really help me. I hope I never do anything to get banned. I try to be as respectful as possible because I appreciate people's opinions. I am not sure what a personal attack is, or what it looks like. If someone wants to give me some examples or a link, that would be great.

If you have a group that is claiming that Jesus was a zombie, you have HUGE problems. That notion completely undercuts the resurrection of Jesus and what it means to us. What you have been describing about this group in this thread and the other one demonstrates some major theological problems with the people whom you are studying with. Claiming Jesus was a zombie is a major false teaching, not minor difference that believers can agree to disagree on. Despite the different denominations, it sounds like you have some people who are woefully errant in their view of Jesus. Interpretation isn't personal. Application is personal. Interpretation is objective and speaks to the meaning the author intends for us to take from the text. For them to say that Jesus was a zombie demonstrates that a huge interpretation issue is in play. One other question... Who is leading this study group?? I understand now what you mean about "interpretation." And I think "application" means how someone uses the scripture in their daily lives. But is the word when people read what the author writes and it has a different meaning to them than it does to someone else. Is there a word that means that? do you know what I mean? because I think that is where we are getting stuck.