Marcus O'Reillius

An argument is debate. This board is all about conflicting beliefs - and when you put something up about my eschatology and then summarily dismiss it as idle belief, that is hardly academic debate. That gets into the personal arguing that abounds here and on other eschatological boards.

And the same to you. Now if you have a particular point you'd like to argue, join in and be specific.

Again, arguing with a nameless author who isn't here... The "presumption" of whom the Elect are - is taken from the NT. When "elect" is used of a people or person - it always refers to believers in Christ. The presumption which is carried in Pre-Trib eschatology is that here, and only in the Olivet Discourse, does "elect" mean: 'tribulation Saints'. Now the ones Jesus prays ("let") escape are only those who are in Judea - and that is not predominantly Christian, but Jewish. Reading Zechariah, I have concluded that those who flee are the very first contingent of the Remnant Jews who are marshalled through the rest of the one 'seven' -by Jesus- and ultimately come to Him in the Millennium. And again, His Prayer is that it not be on the Sabbath, and I have faith that our Lord's Prayers will be answered - and those Jews will escape through the cleft He makes in the Mount of Olives when He touches down on it on the Day of the Lord.

Well now I get to try to have an argument with some other website whose author isn't even on this message board. There is no direct mention of God's Wrath by God or any of His Servants with the sixth Seal either. The wicked say that, and very selfishly too, I might add. As I have constructed my Pre-Wrath eschatology, the relevant parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology of chapters 4-11 (exclusive of 11:1-13) are chapters 13-16 (inclusive). After the midpoint abomination of the talking image and the Two Laws which make the Great Tribulation so terrible for the Elect - come 1. Jesus on the earth; 2. the 144,000, and 3: Three Angels who warn the earth - the first having the Gospel message completing the Great Commission which is a requirement for the "end" in the opening broad account of Jesus' Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 - and then the two who tell the wicked what is going to become of them - and then Jesus comes to rescue the Elect with the Harvest in chapter 14. So - when the wicked say what they say in Rev 6:17, it is not because God's Wrath is falling upon them, but that they know - because they've just been told - that it is coming. However! At that particular moment in time - that is NOT the very next thing which will happen! God's Wrath is not evident until the Scroll is unsealed, and Angels sound out their Trumpets. The first Trumpet supplies two elements of the Day of the Lord's Wrath: fire and blood. And that is exactly what the second and third angels told the wicked, and why the rich and their servants hiding underground are there - and they might very well survive that day - only to suffer even greater than they foisted upon the us, the Elect, during the Great Tribulation.

Sorry, I don't follow.

I am done sword-fighting for today. This is not productive. I am going to do something productive: I will work on my book on eschatology: the Sequence of Events in End-Time Prophecy.

Yes, I can read you telling yourself that.

And he's still the King of the North in verse 40!

Nor it is to be played with lightly even by old men.

Nonsense. They are ruled by a twelve-member "BODY" now - which is why the "body" of the fourth terrible beast is labeled after the leopard. The northern half of the Northern Hemisphere includes three great nations now: America, Russian, and the EU. Canada is not a great nation, nor is it powerful. It will be caught up in all the rest though... Neither Trump, who WILL BE the King of America shortly - thank God - Putin, who IS the King of Russia right now - nor anyone who you could name from the capital of the EU in Brussels as "heading" the EU - are the future anti-Christ according to Daniel 7:17.

No, the King of the North is specifically mentioned in verses 6, 7, 8, 11, 13, 15 - in a near-term prophecy concerning a generational war between the Seleucids and Ptolemies which culminates with Antiochus IV Epiphanes - who then serves as the lens of dual focus - shifting the narrative to the far-term end-time prophecy concerning a yet unknown King of the North as described in verse 40 - and all references to "he" or "him" stand for the KING OF THE NORTH.

So he's not Trump, nor Putin, nor anyone who you could say controls the EU.

He is not the King over any of the first three nations which go to make up the fourth terrible beast of a nation.

I said that. The anti-Christ is the King of the North - over the fourth terrible beast.

Oh, I thought about it. I'm a quick study. I already said that. King of the North, little horn, man of perdition, beast-of-a-man, the sixth "head", anti-Christ. We are talking about a MAN. He is not called the King of the West or the King of Israel. - What you wrote - is not true there.

"What's he mean, bovine blossoms?" - What you never walked through a cow pasture?

Give me a break. I'm waving the bovine blossoms flag on this one.

And you referenced what in Scripture? The first beast of Revelation 13? That's the beast of a nation in 13:1-2. And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. Now once we have the first beast of Revelation 13 - a second "beast-of-a-man" is introduced. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. Remember: the fourth terrible beast has ten horns who are ten kings (Rev 17:12) who become kings for one hour. Their whole purpose is to preside over the governance of the super-state North from which the "little horn" of Daniel - who is the anti-Christ - who rises from within and "hamstrings" (uproots) three of them, and "assumes power" (judges) them. It is this second "beast-of-a-man" who is the mouthpiece - the little horn who boasts - who is also the "sixth head" of the dragon-beast-of-a-nation: the fourth terrible beast of Daniel 7, who is made up of the first three beasts as per Rev 13:2. It is HE who is given authority (by God) for 42 months. God is in control over Kings. It is HE who speaks boastfully against God who suffers a fatal wound (false death) but does not die (false resurrection) - and then comes to proclaim himself God - i.e., FALSE MESSIAH.

It's not a double standard. Fact: the anti-Christ goes by many different names. Two: you have no direct Scripture to reference for your many allegations. Laugh out loud all you want. Eschatology is too often the playground for fools and crackpots. To look at end-time prophecy is very difficult, and not for beginners.

It's a false word test. Try again to stick to Scripture. Tell me where in the Scripture I referenced where I got it all wrong.

It really is beyond you to tell me what my understanding is. You do not possess that ability. Now, you state that the Jews will have become Christians at the time of the midpoint when the anti-Christ is coming after them. This pursuit is demonically empowered. It is also countered by God. There is no prophecy which indicates a wholesale conversion of the Jews to Christianity. That is the province ONLY of certain folk who dabble in eschatology. The evidence in end-time prophecy is that the Remnant Jews do not accept the Servant Messiah who is Jesus as their Messiah King until after the one 'seven'.

As I have said, "anti-Christ" is synonymous with many other labels he is given in the Bible. We do not have to be ULTRA-LITERAL in our reading to understand whom is being discussed when the evil prince-who-will-come is being discussed.

False word test. Try again.

This is ridiculous. There are two people in Rev 12:17. Rev 12:14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to (1) the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she *was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. 17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with (2) the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. The Jews do NOT hold onto the testimony of Christ Jesus - but eschew Him. They are like the woman lover of Songs of Solomon 5:5. The Remnant Jews are protected - Christians who DO hold onto the testimony of Jesus are persecuted to near extinction with the Great Tribulation. ___________________________________________________________ There are three human components to the Day of the Lord: 1. The Elect - who are resurrected from the Grave. Isa 26:19 Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits. 2. The Jews - who are not saved at that time with the Rapture Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course. 3. The Wicked - who are the blunt of God's Wrath. Isa 26:21 For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will reveal her bloodshed And will no longer cover her slain.

Oh really? That's where I get my name by the way - Oh reallius? Perhaps you'd like to post your references as I have done. Oh, how nice. A blanket condemnation. You would care to be specific? Or are you just going to go with your interpretation of it as being the only correct one. I am not wrong just because I disagree with you.