LeavesSeeds

Jesus is no respecter of persons.

He warns the disciples over and over not to trust men , but to test everything before receiving it or the person bringing a message about anything.

Remember WHO Jesus did say to listen to and when ? --- the ones teaching TORAH !  Yes,  He told His Own disciples, and they taught the others after them,  to listen when TORAH is taught. 

But not to live like the TORAH teachers did.... see ?

TORAH was and is good to listen to,  but beware as Jesus says not to follow men and not to do as they do,

unless they pass the tests of faithfulness , truth, and life in Him.(see elsewhere the lists/ descriptions/ of what Jesus says to do, and the apostles and disciples did, and taught to do - what is right) ...

Jesus warned often that there are many many false teachers and false prophets.  This is even more dangerous today than it was then.

It's a lot like the food supply in the grocery stores in the usa - I went down the soup aisle a week or 2 ago looking for healthy soup.   I couldn't find even one.(in a can or box or jar).  They all had adulteration/ 'known posin' / added in ... for whatever reason....

Finding good healthy unadulterated food these days is a big challenge in the usa grocery stores.

Likewise, finding a good teacher these days anywhere - so do as Jesus says  "TEST EVERYTHING" and if something is

not in accord with all of God's Word - if it is different than the original gospel message of faith in Jesus by grace;    if it contradicts or opposes any part of God's Word,  then do not accept it or the messenger.

On 9/13/2016 at 8:44 AM, artsylady said:

I respect all people.... as God has told us to do. 

On 9/12/2016 at 8:43 PM, missmuffet said:

Satan is the prince of our world. Just look around you. You can stand up all you want for injustice but it may be a waste of time.

Jesus did not respect all people.   It is written that He is no respecter of persons.   When human beings (mankind) start obeying , or rather keep on obeying demons,  they also through up 'respect' as if it is a good thing, but it is not.

I think somewhere, perhaps in a paraphrase, Jesus tells us to not tackle social issues.    DOing what Jesus says to do instead is the only thing to DO that is obedient to God.  (and shows God's Way of Caring and Taking Care of people His Way).   His Way IS the Best Way, after all, and instead of man's ways.

Ever since I became a martyr for the sake of the Gospel,  I thought everyone who wanted to be a disciple of Jesus, born again, set apart had to be (joyously , willingly, totally, and without reservation / without hesitation),

or was to be a martyr.    Otherwise it seemed to me, and still seems like,   they are not whole-heartedly worshiping only the one true God.   This also separates the living body of believers from just having the form of religion but denying(not living in; not acknowledging; not showing in life; not being healed or joyful in all things; not having peace that passes understanding; being depressed instead of overflowing with life) the power there-of.

On 11/15/2015 at 0:18 AM, Marilyn C said:

We use this phrase `the body of Christ,` but what does it actually mean.

I think the most important pertinent Scripture is "... many are sick and dying...."   because they don't recognize the body of Christ. (NOT pertaining to Pesach or later communion).

I think it is most important because so many are dying , so many are sick - and seemingly totally unaware of the healing available,  if they would be willing to die and to suffer with Jesus in order if possible to also (now, today) live with Him in His Way (I hesitate to repeat - "in resurrection life" because it is mis-used so much, almost always - in assemblies today) ....

Hand in Hand with this, is Jesus Word "My Words are Spirit, and They are Life" (i.e. NOT flesh, nor of the flesh, nor ever learned by the flesh) ....  and Jesus Word "My Father has Revealed this to you"(when He does, which is rare today in any assembly)...... 

The ONLY Way to learn of His body - what to see, what to expect (from the Father in heaven, what to see and to expect now on earth)    seems to be ONLY in and from HIS WORD (continually reading His Word,  in ANY translation - it is carnal to argue over which one to read) .... 

reading continually - all of His Word,  and praying for HIS Revelation (without which none; sine qua non)

In His Word seeing TRUTH, by His Grace in Jesus, that CANNOT be seen here or in almost nay anyplace on earth (not just 'churches' but literally anyplace - all of mankind is rottenly evil according to His Word) ....

In HIs Word - over and over seeing there what is True and Right and His Way - HIS description of HIS Way , His People, His working in and thru His people TODAY on earth.... (rarely seen).....(never seen by most)

Yes.

2 minutes ago, blevn1 said:

Only those who are willing to give up everything for the sake of Christ should go preaching His word. Its kind of like saying remove the plank from your own eye so you can see to remove the speck from your brothers. Is this correct?

Well,  that last sentence is certainly directly God's Word.

From the first sentence also - since/ if/ when the Jews were/are/will be kept blind - that's God's prerogative (remember MANY JEWS ARE ALIVE AND SAVED TODAY, IN MESSIAH, BY FAITH) .

And it almost begs the question:  why are all*

the gentiles blind today ? Is God keeping them blind for His Own Purpose ?

*except the remnant called and set apart by God for His Plan, just like all* the Jews....

God allowed islam to start and continue like all sin that He allows to start and continue.

He will stop it when He wants to - in the meantime, it is a huge test for people, an ongoing sin, to see if they will turn to Him or if they will keep sinning.

He gives a way of escape from all sin, so no one has any justification before Him to continue sinning.  He is Merciful and Forgiving as well,

so whenever anyone turns to God and asks for Truth and for His Help,  He Delights to Deliver them.  

Remember or look up and read Joseph's dream in Torah.   There are very identical correlations apparently.

10 hours ago, SIC said:

I do not understand this verse from Matthew Chapter 24 verse 28

Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

The verse that comes before this is  

For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

The verse that follows this is  

“Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
    and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
    and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’^[b

 It appears that this verse has no connection either with the preceding or following verse. I'd be grateful if someone could trow more light. Thank you.

 

As for the carcass and vultures,  ignore the verse numbers which came later, and read a few sentences before -

the dead body / carcass/ vultures are all over the earth today, apparently, ignoring God and His Word,

and going after many false saviors.

As others apparently have already pointed out frequently.  That's your opinion, and as you've pointed out repeatedly, you're sticking to it.

no.

Yes, ironic, isn't it?   And why would God, Perfect and Holy and Lacking Nothing, Allow deception to continue so long, right up to TODAY throughout all the world and the church(es) ?

first, so we can be saved.    then, so we can grow closer to the Lord.  yes, thank GOD !

Very Good !

Yes,   the Jews behave just like the gentiles ! ( "human" ) (evil, wicked, stupid, ignorant, blind, sons of disobedience, etc etc etc )

58 minutes ago, Ogner said:

In general,  the Jews reject Jesus as Savior because they are ignorant and practice collective responsibility towards Christians for what Hitler or another one like he did.
At the same time, it should be noted that the Jews do not practice collective responsibility towards themselves for killing Jesus....

p.s. Thanks for looking up and posting verification h**ler was a 'christian'.

..from Hebrew Streams:

     IT'S A COMMON TEACHING that the Jews of the first century rejected Jesus as the Messiah and that every Jewish generation has done so ever since.

As with many teachings passed down from our elders and through urban legends, it's not exactly what happened—at least according to the New Testament. The NT portrays the Jewish people as being of divided opinion about him, not a unified, complete, hostile rejection. And it has also been the Jewish response over the centuries.

Countless Jews have believed in and followed Jesus, both in his own day and throughout history. Thousands of "Yeshua-believing" Jews are living in Israel today and throughout the earth.

But their stories have largely been discounted or suppressed by the Jewish community as aberrations and acts of apostasy.

Ironically, the Gentile Church over time also hushed up stories about Orthodox Jews who followed Jesus yet remained practicing, observant Jews. In the eyes of the Church, these "believers" were heretical: an embarrassing repudiation of universal, catholic (non-Jewish) Christianity.

So the Synagogue and Church have inadvertently conspired for most of history to conceal the truth: Not all Jews rejected Jesus.

Ask Shiloh.  He backs up most all that he says and looked right on in his posts in this thread ......  subject to verification/ testing of course .... look into it -

Hitler was a bad man supported by many churches and thought by many during his rise to power to be a 'christian' ..... that's history.

7 minutes ago, Ogner said:

Are you think shiloh357 is wrong about the Jews and they aren't idiots,  just pretending?

18 minutes ago, gdemoss said:

It doesn't add up.  God has said repeatedly in a number of different ways that sin is responsible for the decimation of the human body.  That it is what comes out of a man that defiles them.

Good starting point.

What is sin ?

As Wayne was just quoted:

On 10/5/2004 at 8:50 AM, WayneB said:

....What a FRIEND we have in Jesus... so why do we always hurt our Friend? Be Blessed!  Wayne

That's perhaps called "human (sinful) nature".   We aren't called and chosen to hurt Jesus -   We aren't supposed to keep crucifying Him daily(as some do).

Jesus was born a man, lived and died and raised from the dead, without sinning, to save us and to give us hope;  to make us (literally) right with God and show us how to live as we TRUST HIM and RELY ON HIM.

.....

Jesus and the disciples , His followers ,  were all called names including names like "dungface", and did not resist nor retaliate.

Jesus said all of His slaves could expect this kind of treatment, just as the Master Himself received.

He told the disciples something like " I know you don't know how to live right;  come , learn from ME , and I will show you."  many times (throughout Scripture and throughout history the last 2000 years).

-----------------------------

the 'experiment' ,  living God's Way,  was possible in the NT.

For some Today, it is possible still (God Willing). (God's Plan, God's Purpose, in Jesus Today and Forever)

There's over a thousand books proving the connection.  Seek and ye shall find.   Don't seek, and ye may or may not find - God said He Revealed Himself to a people who was not even seeking Him, at some point(s) in HIS WORD;  so HE IS INDEED SOVEREIGN.

GOOD!

12 minutes ago, blevn1 said:

Well when you read Exodus it mentions how God harden pharoahs heart so that His power may be proven to all. In revelations 12000 from the 12 tribes of Israel turn Christ Our thoughts are not as high as Gods and our ways are not like that of Gods either. A very big thing to remember.

Glory be to God

Yes, all Glory be to God.   Many thousands of Jews,  (not only Jews we hope),  will turn to God (many thousands have already) with Faith in Jesus, sheer GIFT from the Father !

Thanks be to God for His Plan, Purpose, Mercy , Judgment, Grace, and Redemption in Christ Jesus !

You might catch on, good.   IN THE NT >>

The believers immersed in JESUS NAME THRIVED --- YES- IN THE NT THEY THRIVED, exactly as GOD PLANNED and PURPOSED IN JESUS>

btw,   have you found ANY JUSTIFICATION YET,  for the apparently (so far) false CLAIMS you made (noted earlier) ?  

If you need more time to re-read the thread,  that's fine. 

5 minutes ago, Joline said:

The teachers being the priesthood assembly. The church, including the reformers were LITURGICAL. They did not follow the synagogue assembly. There was no priestly liturgy in synagogue back them.

You love Scripture Esther .

The answer is there, clearly.

6 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

.....What would the world be like today if the church had allowed the teachers in Judaism to have greater influence then they have had?  

Even while the NT was being written , remember, the teachers in Judaism did have greater influence than false religions.

The believers IMMERSED IN JESUS NAME THRIVED.  TRUTH PREVAILED in the assembly of ekklesia.

Same TODAY.   Mankind has not changed.

Quote me.   You have never justified or verified your CLAIMS (noted ) yet.  

2 minutes ago, Joline said:

Really? you have not been saying that?....

Why again ? I never claimed that the Jews being exiled and suffering was not a result of their own sin of not keeping the law.

That's another CLAIM YOU MADE on your own, so far all of your CLAIMS with no substance. 

1 minute ago, Joline said:

Neither have you. You show me in the law, where Jews being exiled and suffering is not a result of their own sin of not keeping the law. You go ahead and do that huh?

Esther,  there is no reason anywhere that justifies rejecting God the Creator and Jesus Messiah His Son.

The reason as several posters have noted,  that some Jews rejected 'christiandom' is because 'christiandom' rejected Jesus and rejected Scripture.

The Jews who knew Scripture, INCLUDING about MESSIAH,  saw this more clearly than we do.

That STILL IS NO EXCUSE FOR THEM ON JUDGMENT DAY.  There is no excuse on JUDGMENT DAY for REJECTING JESUS.

5 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

What you are saying suggests that they have more reason to reject Christianity because of their lack of familiarity of the Torah.  If their only representation of this new religion is stealing them from their country and letting them die as they take them to a different country where they will force them to work for nothing, separating them from their spouses and children, and beating them and abusing them for objecting to this treatment.  

I am not seeing this as the gentle banner of the Gospel message...

So, you also seem to be saying that when the Jews use the Torah to rightly oppose the belief that accepting Christ constitutes idolatry because the law says, " Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name," (Deuteronomy 6:13); 

Again, the problem we are dealing with is more doctrinal than anything else and it might be better to recognize this and bring the Jewish people the message of the resurrection of Christ rather than expecting them to adopt what we know as the Trinity doctrine, which is opposed to most of the Old Testament outside of "let us make man in our image, " (Genesis 1:26).  

The Old Testament never gives an indication that the Messianic prophecy includes what we are familiar with as Trinity doctrine.  In fact, the Old Testament is very clear that there is one God, only one!  Therefore, it becomes a doctrinal subject of opposition with Judaism that would be easier to resolve with preaching the resurrection rather than expecting the Jewish people to adopt the whole quadrinity of the essence at the center of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  

The Pharisees accepted the resurrection, they just didn't want to accept that His resurrection meant that He was fulfilling the prophecies spoken about Him through the prophets, and that this meant He was given greater authority than they had, and it is the resurrection that demonstrates who He is to begin with.   

1 minute ago, Joline said:

Does Moses law change?

Read the prophets and how they responded to exiles and punishment?

Read the prophetic utterances of Moses law, and see their alternatives.

You show me wher any of these sources blame the rulers which exiled them for their plight.

Why ?   You haven't shown any of your CLAIMS    (earlier, all clearly denoted). to be true yet.