eugenelester

Has someone already proved that the Universe is eternal? Or did someone abolish conservation laws or the second law of thermodynamics? Or the fundamental laws of logic?

Is the universe eternal? why can not we put such a question? Did you read the article by reference?

ok, theme of topic, how I see, lost. Christian apologetics (Greek: ἀπολογία, "verbal defence, speech in defence")[1] is a branch of Christian theology that aims to present historical, reasoned, and evidential bases for Christianity, defending it against objections.[2] (Wikipedia) Please answer to simple question: how did you know that exactly Bible it word from God, why not other book, why not Koran for example? And other question: how did you know, that God really exist?

You are don't fully right understood my words. I am say that we can't use Bible for people, who doesn't accept Bible. If people doesn't accept this Book, how you can prove something for them? It is good if somebody accept Bible in one or other way, amen! But I spoke about those, who doesn't accept the Bible! It sad to see that you say this. You are sayed irrational things, that's why christianity lose in modern world. Look at west Europe, it losted for christianity now.

it is strange, but you say about thing, that doesn't relative to theme of thread. If we speak about apologetics, we must show rational facts for people, who doesn't accept Bible. How we can use Bible as autority, if unbeliever people doesn't accept this book? For start we must using facts that prove of God's existense. And that Bible is information from Him. Only after this we can use Bible, but no before.

My article is written for those for whom the Bible is not authority. However, it proves what the Bible indicates. I'm talking about exactly what Paul says in Romans 1:20.

The most correct and obvious answer to the question of “Where did Universe come from?” is that it, being finite, has eternal Primal cause, which is non-material by its nature and not bound by laws of nature as matter is. It is simple and elementary. More by link: Where did Universe come from?

Firstly: I did not say that we should not use the Bible at all or use the Bible rarely. I said that the Bible should be brought where it is appropriate. It is pointless to quote from the Bible to someone for whom it does not have authority. Secondly: It's amazing, but you do not notice one simple and obvious fact. You read the Bible, you interpret the Bible and quote the Bible thanks to your mind. You can do this only because you have intelligence and thanks to reason. Things that are not reasonable can not do this, and even living, not intelligent beings can not do this. How can you know that I am adding myself? How can this be distinguished? If you read, interpret and quote the Bible in the same way. I can tell you the same thing. When you quote the Bible to me, you understand the quotation with a certain meaning. And think that this meaning is from God. But you do it with your mind. How do you know that you do not bring your meaning into your quotations, your interpretation? How can you do without reason? Why did Paul in Athens not quote the Scriptures to the Greeks, and quote the poet to them? Did Paul add from himself, and not from God?

Well, of course, that can not come to God, a man who denies His existence. He must believe, know, be sure that God exists. When to you are asked the question: why is it the Christian God? What do you answer? Why is the Christian God better than other gods? And this is a fair question. Because faith is different. There is reasonable faith and there is a stupid faith. You can believe in all sorts of nonsense and say - "this is my faith, believe me." As a person who does not know, to show that faith in Christ is true faith, and faith in the Buddha is false? If a person grew up in another religion and his parents believed in the Buddha and everyone around him believed in the Buddha. And the Bible is an empty sound for him. Let them go to hell? Why think?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we are in full glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (Jn.1: 14) The Word is Jesus Christ. And not the words of the Bible or the Bible itself. Well, it turns out the apostle Paul did not do the right thing either. Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. 24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing him giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath was made of the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he is not far from every one of us: 28 For in him, we live, and move, and have our being; As certain also of your own poets have. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; But now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; Whereof he hath given assurance to all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. 32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter. 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 Howbeit certain men clave to him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them. Why does Paul not quote the Scriptures for the Greeks, as he did for the Jews? Maybe because for the Greeks the citation of the Hebrew Scriptures simply did not make sense? After all, they did not hear anything about them and did not know. Why do you again use against me a bad reception, giving your opinion for the opinion of God. How do you know that your interpretation of Scripture and quotations exactly corresponds to what God wanted to say? God does not lose anyone. I agree. But following your approach - why do anything at all? After all, God does not lose anyone. Why are you evangelizing? "All those who come to Christ do so because of God draws them." You think way too highly of yourself. You work in vain. " I can say the same thing with the same success. "What does God say about those who say he does not exist?" You are born again? "Why is not Gods word sufficient for you? You must be led By the spirit! " I can ask you the same questions. Do not you think that to call into question the revival of those who disagree with you is a bad tone. "Are you aware that God turns atheists over to a reprobate mind?" The SPIRIT DRAWS. God Has made their minds dark and CONFUSED. "They asked for the truth. Depends on God no less than when you evangelize someone else. Why then evangelize at all? I just the other day read it.

Oh, I just, brought a simple analogy, for people who find it hard to understand how God can be without beginning and end.

Are you God? I think not. Your understanding of individual parts of the Bible is your understanding, but it is not necessarily that it is the opinion of God Himself. You do not need to make prohibited receptions in the discussions and give your opinion for the opinion of God. I'm discussing with you. People ask questions. Not all people it is obvious that God exists and even fewer people obviously that the Bible is information from God. We must be able to give all people correct, honest and direct answers to their questions. If we all pointlessly throw up quotes from the Bible, and, not really even thinking about the meaning of these quotes, I'm afraid we very easily lose the war for the minds of people. And already I see how Christianity is losing this war. And he loses not because the enemy is so cunning, but because the Christians themselves do not want to use the mind of Christ given to them!

You quote quite correctly. And this quote just says that the existence of God can and must be proved. The problem is that this quote is not enough in itself. This quote does not prove the existence of God. She only says that everything in this world indicates the existence of God, but does not say how everything indicates the existence of God. Have you tried talking to atheists? I tried. And I realized that with this approach, like you and most Christians, Christianity is losing atheists a battle for the minds of people. We must be able to provide rational evidence. And it's not enough to just quote the Bible or say that God exists.

You do not quite understand me correctly. The fact that we have a mathematical concept of the infinite, allows us to understand the properties of God. And do not ask stupid questions about where He came from. Just like no one puts the question: "where is the beginning of the geometric line?". The question of proof of the existence of God is not considered here, if you are about this.

I think that you complicate everything. I brought only an analogy, to understand that God is eternal. And he has neither beginning nor end. It's enough.

I do not know what you're talking about.

But it is not difficult for mortals to know that there are eternal things that have neither beginning nor end. And the concept of God refers to such things.

I just brought a simple and understandable analogy.

My article is for everyone who does not like to follow links. It seems like a very simple question and every believer should know an easy answer on it. But if we google a little bit and read the answers of the Christians and the contrarguments of atheists it shows that everything is not so simple, clear and easy. That’s why I have a desire to write my own variant of the answer. To be honest this question is inconsistent and improper actually. And usually believers give a right answer that God is eternal and He appeared from nowhere, that He always was, He is and He will be forever. But the opponents usually ask: But why is God eternal? If the universe needs a reason in God, then why God doesn’t need the reason or why the universe is not eternal? Who told that God is eternal? How can you prove that God is eternal? And so on… And here at the moment something is wrong, not so clear and plain. Usually Christians use the Bible as an argument not taking into consideration that this book is not the authority for non-believers and that is the main problem of the question. We need the generally accepted arguments. This question belongs to such kinds of questions that can’t be proved by only one Bible. Here we must use logic, philosophy and laws of the universe. Why do we Christians forget that the whole world is created by God and that “… For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen …” So let's show God to the atheists through the creation if the Bible is not the authority for them. Let's take the philosophy, logic and mathematics and let's answer philosophically. Firstly we need to understand clearly the meaning of the word “God”. We will use the generally accepted source. It is important to specify, that we talk about God of monotheistic abrahamic religions. And this determination of the word "God" we use, because such understanding of God is accepted by most people, because most inhabitants of the earth belong to these religions. Here is said that God is a personification of the Absolute. And what then is the Absolute? This is a philosophical concept. So, God is the Absolute. This be very important to know and understand. A self concept "God" already plugs in itself that He is the Absolute. And what does it mean? It means that God is absolutely eternal, if He is the Absolute. And what is eternal? Eternal means that something does not have an end! That never ends. Endless. Or moreover eternal is something that regardless to the time according to its nature is out and over the time. Examples from science: A geometrical ray and geometrical line are endless, they do not have an end. Thus, geometrical ray is relatively endless, because it does not have an end, but has beginning. And geometrical line is absolutely endless because it has neither beginning nor end. Opposite to the geometrical segment that has beginning and end. It means that science that is so loved by scientists operates concepts endless for a long time. Thus, there are two types of endless: absolute as a ray and absolute as a line. These two concepts are not sucked from a finger or taken from ceiling- they are a scientific fact. Or do atheists have something against science? Therefore the philosophical concept of the absolute has a fully scientific basis. And when we talk about God, we mean that He is the Absolute, it is meant that He is absolutely eternal and endless and has neither beginning nor end like a geometrical line. It is incorrectly to put a question «Where did God come from?» The same situation with a question: "And where did begin a line"? Next time answer an atheist: "I will say you where God is from, when you will show me the beginning of a geometrical line". It is important to specify, that in this article, I do not try to prove existence of God, and finiteness of universe. These are themes for other articles. I simply draw an analogy clear to the people for whom the higher authority is science. And I only specify the philosophical understanding of term "God", and also how we should apply the term. If we talk about God, we must have the generally accepted philosophical determination of this concept. We with non-believers should have the common denominator, the general foundation on the basis of which we can have a constructive discussion. If non- believers began to speak about God they must understand what means this concept. God is Absolute!

Of course, because God did not come from anywhere. God has always existed. And I just brought an understandable analogy for everyone, of how it can be.

Search engines, in particular Google, do not like duplicate content. They can find that someone is stealing content. And since this forum has much more weight than my own blog, Google's robot can believe that my blog is a thief. The content should be unique. And if somewhere on the Internet there are copies of it, then someone from someone stole the content. That's why I leave references.

And you did not read the article on the link? There actually is an answer. Maybe you'll like it.

Under the link, you can find a similar response with a twist.

And according to the reference, the answer is written for those cases when the Scripture does not have authority for a person.

What do you want to say? Have you read the article on the link? I actually want to say that God is eternal. And he has neither beginning nor end.