Who is this that claims the promised land belongs to him and says he give jews the right to return?

Who is this that calls itself by the name "Israel"?

According to prophecy concerning the time of the end,who or what is the Israeli government?

2 hours ago, inchrist said:

Again guys, I can either have scripture interpret the meaning of the word star or we can import our own idea's into the meaning of star.

Since no one can actually provide scripture where stars are ever referred to man made weapons, and we have an endless amount of scriptures of stars referring to planets and comets then the sound exegesis ground is to stick with scriptures use of the word stars to refer to comets.

Further if we examine matthew 24 everything is taken literally

Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. (This is not figurative is it?)

 

 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. ( not figurative)

 

6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. ( its literal)

Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. ( literal)

 

There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains (literal)

 

Then all of a sudden when we get to matthew 24:29 we must take it figuratively? because psalm 37:4 and yourself say so, with no justification and no scriptural support for stars ever referring to man made weapons?

We need to be careful here, what evidence do you have we are not to take stars literal but figurative to mean nukes?

Are you imposing your thoughts into scripture or does star mean nukes? Where is the evidence? 

Just saying they are nukes is not good enough, surely if christ meant man made weapons, he would of said human weapons falling from the sky, surely such vocabulary was available?

 

 

No.There was no such word as nuclear missiles.I just told you that.Its called the abomination that causes desolation in scripture.

It's describes in,revelation as an earthquake, the sky becoming black and the sky departing from,earth as a scroll being rolled together.I think John did a great job of describing it.At least I can understand it.

3 hours ago, inchrist said:

Nothing in Matthew 24:29 gives any hint to take stars or heaven shaken to be  figurative

Further there is no single use of star being used figuratively for man made weapons in scripture 

Do you believe Jesus should have said nuclear missiles if thsts what they are?

Instead the nuke is reffered to as the abomination that causes desolation and yes ,it's man made.

36 minutes ago, inchrist said:

The heavnely hosts consists of more than just planets, im referring to comets/ asteroids ......are they not stars to ancient middle easterners?

Planet doesn't rise against planet

It's nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom that causes the devastation.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-7.htm

2 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Israel's next war is not Armageddon. We're not even in the tribulation yet. In fact, Israel isn't even involved in Armageddon. But when the tribulation starts, you'll know. Everyone on earth will know. An event will happen that cause all on earth to know the tribulation started, even atheists will come to know. And it's not the signing of the peace treaty that starts the tribulation. That's just someone's misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27 when he read "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week" and thought to himself oh the tribulation starts with the signing of the peace treaty. Somehow this idea caught on fire and spread like wildfire. The bible refutes that idea showing us 3 different scriptures that reveals what actually will start the tribulation. I was gonna show you one of them but you already had your mind made up.

Israel's next and final war before the tribulation is found in Psalm 118 and Isaiah 26. Israel will win the war with help from the US and expand her borders. This is one of the many good news ahead. And of course, the peace treaty will come.

The other thing everyone else has been telling you about when the 144,000 are seal. They're correct, it's before. Part of knowing comes from understanding Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12-13.

 

All the articles below are fairly recent dating back within a few months.

The Next Middle East War

Israel and Iran are heading for conflict over southern Syria.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-next-middle-east-war-1504826567

 

Israel Is Going to War in Syria to Fight Iran

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/09/28/israel-is-going-to-war-in-syria-to-fight-iran/

 

Iran Is Ready To Attack Israel

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-is-ready-to-attack-i_b_11382198.html

 

Netanyahu pushes law making it easier to declare war

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/08/israel-netanyahu-amendment-security-cabinet-government-war.html#ixzz4xvAmpjvQ

 

Hezbollah says Israel pushing region to war

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-hezbollah-israel/hezbollah-says-israel-pushing-region-to-war-idUSKCN1C6136

 

Iran and Israel are poised for war — in Syria

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/347748-iran-and-israel-are-poised-for-war-in-syria

 

The Coming Confrontation Between Israel and Iran

https://www.cfr.org/blog/coming-confrontation-between-israel-and-iran-1

 

 

 

 

You think Israel has nothing to do with armegedon.Lol

Armageddon is located in Israel.

3 minutes ago, Psalms37:4 said:

How are you at accepting correction? You willing to hear something different from what you thought?

 

This however is correct, partially. The stars falling to earth in Matthew 24:29 are missiles and rockets.

All the stars John wrote of in Revelation are not actual stars. It's a figurative term. I think everyone knows what can happen if a real star collided with the earth.

This is an image of an unarmed Minuteman III nuclear missile launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base. They look like stars falling from the sky. But not all stars in Revelation are actually rockets and missiles either.

 

 

During the tribulation, there will be a lot of rockets and missiles flying across the sky. Some nuclear too. In Israel's next war (just before the start of the tribulation), just two of Israel's many enemies she will be fighting "soon" has over 250,000 rockets and missile targeted and readily aimed at Israel. Don't worry, she has the iron dome. Let's hope it works well. And she will win the war with help from the US, however will suffer huge casualties during the battles. It's in the bible. At the end it's a lot of good news. Major major good news ahead. The outcome will be as significant or better than the 6-Day war and the war of Independence of 1947-48. It's in the bible.

This is for all the concerned viewers reading this, particularly those currently living in Israel. But I think you guys living there already know the war is coming soon.

Hezbollah has 150,000 missiles pointed at Israel

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203304

Iranian commander warns there are 100,000 missiles ready to strike Israel

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/04/iranian-commander-warns-there-are-100000-missiles-ready-to-strike-israel.html

 

If you factor in all the countries of the world, particularly Russia and the US with it's insane stockpile, it's safe to say more than a million missiles and rockets will be flying across the sky during the tribulation, and some will be nuclear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm quite sure the kings of the east(iran)will not cross the Euphrates in rt to Armageddon Israel till 3 1/2 years after the Israeli government has given all its residents the mark of the beast .

We will see which comes first though.

12 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Okay, let me just clarify this. You believe the 144,000 are sealed after the tribulation because you see these two verses as parallels, is this correct?

 

Matthew 24:29 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

 

Revelation 6:12-13 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. ¹³ And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

And both corespond to the abomination that causes desolation.

This is the man who causes the heavens to depart from the earth as a scroll being rolled together.They are nuclear missiles falling.

http://biblehub.com/daniel/11-44.htm

At that time the 144,000 are sealed.

http://biblehub.com/daniel/12-1.htm

What you would call great tribulation.

The only point I was trying to make with this thread was to show the 144,000 do suffer tribulation . 3 1/2 years of persecution.

15 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Try reading the Bible literally for which God had intended. Don't give those words your own meaning. That includes the book of Revelation. If some of those words are too difficult to get the true meaning go to the teachings of a Bible scholar who is going to teach the truth.

 Jesus literally said the stars of heaven would fall into the earth after the tribulation in the gospel.You should really try to read the gospel some time.

7 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

No, the book of Revelation tells us that all the judgments will occur in the seven year tribulation.

You should try reading the gospels.They are very infomative concering Jesus disciples.And Jesus says in the gospel that the stars of heaven fall unto the earth AFTER the tribulation.The same stars that fall into the earth before the 144,000 are sealed in revelation.

Try reading The gospel.

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

Do you think that the seven year tribulation has already started?

The tribulation for those Israelis starts when the king of the north gives the Israeli government a host.

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

We see that the judgment you are speaking of in Revelation 6:12-17 is during the first 3 1/2 years of the seven year tribulation. I do not believe Jesus said anything about when the stars of heaven would fall unto the earth.

Yes he did.Jesus said the stars of heaven would fall into the earth after the tribulation.

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

They are sealed before all the the seal, bowl, trumpet judgments. So right at the beginning of the seven year tribulation.

The tribulation started 3 1/2 years before the abomination that causes desolation is used.You missed the point I was making with the stars falling.If you pay attention to that .it proves this point.

39 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

For what purpose? Cannot be for protection since Christ reigns after the Trib.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Jesus explains to them what he would do before he writes the name of God in their foreheads.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/3-12.htm

And with the tribulation which they have sufferd ,I believe they deserve it.I know I would hate my life if I had to go through what they do.

1 hour ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Here, read what it said. How did you come to the conclusion this happens after the tribulation?

Revelation 3:10-12 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. ¹¹ Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.¹² He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

 

 

 

It is proven these are sealed with the name of God after the stars of heaven fall into the earth which event Jesus said in the gospel takes place after the tribulation.

Also in daniel 11,these same saints suffer for 3 1/2 years before the time of the end.That is the tribulation they suffer.

Persecution 

Rev3:12 show why they are sealed with God's name.That they have overcome and why they are called Israel.

9 hours ago, Keras said:

The 144,000 are sealed years before the Great Tribulation.   My belief conflicts with yours, because unlike you, I go by the Word as Written and Revelation says the 144,000 are selected and sealed after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster and before the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the GT. The GT happens during the last 3 1/2 years prior to the Return of Jesus. 

I havnt said anything about great tribulation.

I used the exact same word used in Mathew 24 :29 before the stars of heaven fall into the earth.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/24-29.htm

Hense.The 144,000 are sealed after that tribulation.

6 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Well I was gonna explain the 6th seal but it seems like you already have an opinion of when you think the 144,000 are sealed. So I'll save myself the work.

Makes me wonder why you asked the question in the OP in the first place and what the logic is why you think the 144,000 are sealed after the tribulation.

Everyone knows Israel will go through the tribulation, but why seal them after?

 

 

There was a couple of people in the other thread saying the 144,000 we're sealed before the tribulation.

So I was pointing out the simplest way i could to show them the 144,000 are sealed with God's name after their tribulation.

Here is why they are sealed with God's name after their tribulation.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/3-12.htm

5 hours ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Not many Christian's understand who the 144,00 actually are. The following verses tell us this is the structure of Christ's Government during His Millennial reign on Earth:  :

Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Rev 11:16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshipped God,

Mark 10:40 but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared."

Rev 11:3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

Rev 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. 

Rev 2:26 To all who are victorious, who obey me to the very end, To them I will give authority over all the nations. 27They will rule the nations with an iron rod and smash them like clay pots.

Rev 19:15 "He will rule them with an iron sceptre." 

This government is in the first Resurrection: 

Rev 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The rest of the dead are the great multitude who resurrect at the end of the 1000 years. 

 

I agree with everything you've just said about the 144,000.

The only part im,not agreeing with is that last paragraph about the great multitude,but only because I don't know about those.You have definitely given my something to consider .

Thank you.

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shilohsfoal,

Now the `stars etc` are also tribulation. Jesus said `Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,.` (Matt. 24: 29)

Then we read in Revelation 6 after the same events - sun, moon, stars falling etc, people are crying `Fall on us and hide us .....For the great day of His wrath has come,...` (Rev. 6: 12 - 17)

So there are some tribulation events, (tribulation of those days) & then after those there are the final tribulations - `sun, moon, stars, etc.`

Otherwise it would say, after the Great Tribulation then the sun, moon and stars, etc. But it doesn`t say that.

Marilyn.

 

The tribulation the 144000 go through is explained in the gospel.Being scourged in the synagogues.Being betrayed by family.Being delivered up to be judged by counsel.And some put to death for the testimony of Jesus.

That is the tribulation these saints have while going through Israel preaching the kingdom,of heaven is literally at hand.

After they are sealed with tjier fathers name there is no more tribulation for them.They overcame.

The point of this thread is the 144,000 are sealed after the tribulation.They have tribulation.

The 144000 are sealed after the tribulation.

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Did Jesus say the stars of heaven would fall unto the earth before or after the tribulation?

 

Jesus said the stars of heaven fall unto the earth after the tribulation.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-29.htm

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

#1 Are the 144,000 israelites sealed before or after the stars of heaven fall unto the earth?

Answer to the first question.

The key word In this verse that answers the question is After.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/7-1.htm

31 minutes ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Are you referring to Revelation 6:13?

 

Revelation 6:12-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. ¹³ And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. ¹⁴ Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. ¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, ¹⁶ and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! ¹⁷ For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

 

 

 

Yes,according to revelation.Are the 144000 sealed before or after the stars of heaven fall into the earth?

Did Jesus say the stars of heaven would fall unto the earth before or after the tribulation?