LightShinesInTheDarkness

Encouragement for the suffering of sanctification: Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through Him we have obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we also rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. (Romans 5:1-5) The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs---heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him. (Romans 8:16,17) So we do not lose heart. Though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day. For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. (2 Corinthians 4:16-18) Make sure your focus is on the inside, where God's focus is, to be conformed to the image of His Son---and not on self-gratification and the things that are passing away. Then, when you suffer, it will be for a good purpose, for your spiritual strengthening and enrichment, and not because of foolishness or disobedience. (All things work together for the good of those who love God, not for the good of those whom God loves. There are many, many people whom God loves for whom things are not working out for good, and for whom things will not turn out well, because they do not love Him; unsaved people, of course, but Christians also.)

Answer: Keep the commandments of the New Testament with the help of the Holy Spirit (John 17:17) Be mindful of the Lord in how you live, live submitted to Him, and keep in step with His Spirit (1 Corinthians 10:31; Ephesians 5:8-17; James 4:7; Galatians 5:22-25) When you sin, repent (1 John 1:9) Keep a clear conscience toward God and man (1 John 3:19-22) How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to Your word. (Psalm 119:9) Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life. (Proverbs 4:23)

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to His promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by Him without spot or blemish, and at peace. (2 Peter 3:10-14)

Delight yourself in the LORD, and He will give you the desires of your heart. (Psalm 37:4) Whom have I in heaven but You? And there is nothing on earth that I desire besides You. (Psalm 73:25) My soul longs, yes, faints for the courts of the LORD; my heart and flesh sing for joy to the living God. For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand elsewhere. I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of wickedness. For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor. No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly. (Psalm 84:1,2, 10,11) No, the joy of heaven---or of the city to come---is not its beauty, nor the angels, nor the music, a mansion or a crown, but God Himself. Without Him, none of the other things would matter. Those who delight in God Himself (and not merely in His gifts) now, will enjoy Him the most forever.

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. (James 4:8) "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." (Matthew 5:6)

NOTHING BETWEEN MY SOUL AND THE SAVIOR Charles Albert Tindley 1. Nothing between my soul and the Savior, Naught of this world’s delusive dream; I have renounced all sinful pleasure; Jesus is mine, there’s nothing between. Refrain: Nothing between my soul and the Savior, So that His blessed face may be seen; Nothing preventing the least of His favor, Keep the way clear! Let nothing between. 2. Nothing between, like worldly pleasure; Habits of life, though harmless they seem, Must not my heart from Him e’er sever; He is my all, there’s nothing between. 3. Nothing between, like pride or station; Self-life or friends shall not intervene; Though it may cost me much tribulation, I am resolved; there’s nothing between. 4. Nothing between, e’en many hard trials, Though the whole world against me convene; Watching with prayer and much self-denial, I’ll triumph at last, with nothing between. (Source: hymnal.net)

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work. (2 Corinthians 9:8)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words... They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray... For speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved... (Freedom to sin and to do whatever you please is not the freedom of Jesus Christ.) For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire." (2 Peter 2:1-3, 14,15, 18-22) Don't let this be you. The woman Folly is loud; she is seductive and knows nothing. She sits at the door of her house; she takes a seat on the highest places of the town, calling to those who pass by, who are going straight on their way, "Whoever is simple, let him turn in here!" And to him who lacks sense she says, "Stolen water is sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant." But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol. (Proverbs 9:13-18) Folly is always more popular than wisdom. Don't be dazzled by big crowds. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (2 Timothy 4:3,4) Are you one of them? Myth: A widely held but false belief or idea.

Grace is: The God-given power and desire to do God's will, including keeping the commandments of the New Testament (not of the law of Moses) Freedom from the dominion of sin and the ability to choose what pleases God Freedom from the Law of Moses if you were a Jew before you got saved Grace is not: Freedom from the commandments and teachings of the New Testament (the law of Christ) God's blessing to do whatever you please The unconditional guarantee of salvation, no matter what you choose to do after being saved If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world---our faith. Who is that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:2-5) And it is through this faith that we have access to the grace of God which enables us to put to death the desires of our sinful nature and to obey Him, which is the purpose for which it was given to us. The Christian who thinks that grace means that God's commandments are optional and that he doesn't have to keep them because God doesn't expect him to is a fool (that is, one who is foolish, like those five foolish virgins). He most certainly does expect us to. If you're one of those Christians who has been so misled, I recommend that you re-read the New Testament and starting doing what it says, rather than receiving God's grace in vain. The Holy Spirit guides Christians in the keeping of God's written word, and knowing and doing whatever is pleasing to Him in personal matters (personal faith). He does not approve of or lead into sin. So if you think you're walking by the Spirit, just because He's in you, and you're living however you please, you're a fool.

Yes, if we walk by the Spirit we will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. But it's not automatic; we do have to make that choice. God gives us the desire to do what pleases Him, and the knowledge of what that is as we seek Him for it and put into practice what He has already shown us and commanded us; but we still have to deny ourselves daily in order to follow Jesus, choosing to do His will with our free will, and not to serve the sinful nature and have our own way instead. This is the daily and moment by moment choice and commitment Christians have to make throughout their lives, and at any time we can choose to do so no longer. We may start the race well, but that doesn't necessarily mean we will finish it well---or at all. So we must be wise, vigilant, and faithful. Throw off everything that hinders. Keep our eyes on Jesus and our hearts set on doing what is pleasing to Him. Keep ourselves pure. And when we stumble, repent, and keep going forward, rather than rationalizing or attempting to hide our sin. The Holy Spirit will convict the Christian, but that doesn't mean that the Christian will always choose to respond. We can choose to harden our hearts against Him, ignore His voice, and do what we please anyway; and many Christians do. Never underestimate the power of the sinful nature. God's grace is greater, but only if we choose to use it. A Christian who makes the wrong choice, and chooses to serve his sinful nature and disregard the commandments and will of the Lord, will bear bad fruit, and will also not bear good fruit. But those who choose to put to death the desires of that nature and to obey the Lord, and whose will is to do God's will, will bear good fruit. The unsaved have no such choice to make, as they do not have the Holy Spirit living in them; only Christians can make this choice. The man without the Spirit cannot please God in any way; he must be born-again before he can do any good work, and he must have the Spirit before he can walk by Him. What happens to Christians when they choose not to obey the Lord and keep in step with the Spirit? They become: ...Lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of Godliness, but denying its power. (2 Timothy 3:2-5) Not much if any better than those who have never known God and who have always been this way. "And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold." (Matthew 24:12) Christians who cast off Christ's law do not love Him, but themselves, no matter what they say. (Unsaved people who have never known God have never had any love for Him in the first place, that it could grow cold.) As Jesus said to the Christians of the church at Ephesus: "...I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent." (Revelation 2:4,5) If it could happen to them, it can happen to you. Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. (1 Corinthians 9:24-27) For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. (Galatians 6:8,9)

Well, if he does, believing that he should do so because he thinks the Lord wants him to and his desire is to please the Lord by doing it, the Lord will have to show him otherwise, which He is able to do. And I did make it clear in the original post that this thread is not to be used to advocate the keeping of the law of Moses, which is contrary to the teachings of Christianity. ROMANS 14

If you meant live by Torah, which I assume you meant, and if by Torah, you meant the Law of Moses, which includes the keeping of the Sabbath, then no. I'm not Jewish, so I never would have lived by the Law of Moses; and I'm also a Christian. I live by the New Testament's teachings and commandments, although I read the entire Bible for wisdom, insight, and instruction. The law of Moses had a purpose for a time, and it hasn't been done away with. It's still in place for unsaved Jews, but this is not the law I live by. For He Himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross... (Ephesians 2:14-16) Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16, 17)

Good and upright is the LORD; therefore He instructs sinners in the way. He leads the humble in what is right, and teaches the humble His way. All the paths of the LORD are steadfast love and faithfulness, for those who keep His covenant and His testimonies. Who is the man who fears the LORD? Him will He instruct in the way that he should choose. The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear Him, and He makes known to them His covenant. May integrity and uprightness preserve me, for I wait for You. (Psalm 25:8-10, 12, 14, 21)

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and Godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us to His own glory and excellence, by which He has granted to us His precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the Divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with Godliness, and Godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:3-11)

Brothers, it seems to me that the disagreements here stem from confusion over a few things: 1. Which law the Scriptures are referring to when they speak about the law (whether it is the law of Christ or the law of Moses). Sometimes it is one and sometimes the other. 2. Who the law of Moses was given to and who is under it 3. Whether a Christian's conduct and choices after he or she is saved (by the mercy, grace, and election of God, through God-given faith in Jesus Christ) can put his or her salvation in jeopardy We must be careful that we know the truth about these things, which God is able to show us from His word with the help of His Spirit, so as not to unwittingly embrace or spread error. Not everything is black and white; sometimes the truth is in fact some of both, and not either or. I won't share the answers to the 3 points above, but I will encourage the three of you to investigate them again and to ask the Lord to show you the truth about them, so as not to be confused, however you may be; and I will pray that He does.

Keep the New Testament as your standard and guide for living, and be mindful of the Lord and of His will in all that you do; and don't make the mistake of comparing yourself to the world around you, or of accepting its standards for yourself. The world's standard is not God's standard; nor does the one the world follows have our best interest at heart, but rather our harm and destruction, as he has from the beginning. It is the standard of the New Testament by which Christians are judged and will be judged by God, and not the world's; and the wise live mindful of this. By comparison to the men of Sodom, Lot looked alright; but not compared to Abraham. Lot was hardly an exemplary saint, though he was the only righteous man in Sodom. Don't make the mistake of thinking you're good because the people around you are worse. Make sure you're comparing yourself to God's word and to Jesus Christ, our Example, always looking to Him in your heart, and not to the world that surrounds you; for if you take your eyes off of the word of God and begin to compare yourself to the world, and to judge yourself by its standards, you will become lax in your ways, and more and more like the world. To live holy in the midst of and against the constant influence of this Godless, sin-loving, God-hating world, is to swim against the current. Christians must be mindful and careful to do this at all times, as the people of this world do not have to be; for this world is made for them. It is not made for us. If we neglect to be so careful and purposeful, we will go with the flow of the current of this world, which is away from God. Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Ephesians 5:15-17) Keep hold of instruction; do not let go; guard her, for she is your life. (Proverbs 4:13) Let your eyes look directly forward, and your gaze be straight before you. Ponder the path of your feet; then all your ways will be sure. Do not swerve to the right or to the left; turn your foot away from evil. (Proverbs 4:25-27)

*who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1 (KJV) Indeed, being set free from the Law of Moses and justified in Christ is a great blessing, for Jews who have been born again, like the ones Paul was addressing here, and I rejoice for them. Gentiles, however, were never under the Law in the first place. They need to be justified in Christ too, but they don't need to be set free from the Law.

Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness that God requires. Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing. (James 1:19-25)

If only the members of the Body would see each other as complementary instead of as competition. Each member, as he is living and doing according to Christ, has his purpose and is for the benefit of the Body, and the source of whatever he has is God. There is nothing to be proud of or to boast about except Jesus Christ in us---and not in an unrighteous way. Whatever spiritual gift a man may have is for the building up of the Church, both bringing people in, and growing, strengthening and helping those who are already in it, to the glory of God. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. (Galatians 5:25,26) Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into Him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. (Ephesians 4:15, 16)

Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord. Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. (Romans 12:9-12)

I see. Well, thankfully the offended person agreed to keep the thread on topic. I do believe the original post was clear in its meaning, but people have their sensitivities, and their perception of something I say may be influenced by their sensitivities, and they're not necessarily trying to be contentious. We should all be careful that Jesus Christ is truly the reason for whatever we may be zealous about, rather than ourselves, and question and discard any practice or belief that produces un-Christlike attitudes and behaviors in us or which doesn't serve to help us to be more like Him and more effective as Christians. Even a good thing can become a bad thing if our motives for doing it and our attitude about it become impure.

What do you mean by this?

Ah, but David had had experience of God's deliverance with the bear and the lion, so he also had confidence in Him to face Goliath. If you have shrunk back from fighting the little battles with the Lord, and you haven't made a practice of using the whole armor of God, and you don't trust Him in the little things, and so haven't proven Him, and all you have is Scripture you have memorized but have not used, you're about as capable of fighting the ultimate battle using the armor of God as David was of facing the giant in Saul's armor, which he had not tested. As Jesus said, "Everyone then who hears these words of Mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it." (Matthew 7:24-27) We have to trust and obey to prove God. Otherwise, all we will have is knowledge and mental acceptance of truths without the experience of them, and our confidence is really in whatever we have trusted in instead of God. By His intention, God's commands require us to trust Him; and if we do, we will see Him act in the way He says He will. Not keeping His commands does not require any trust in Him, for there are plenty of substitutes for God to rely on in this world, so that a Christian need not trust Him much at all if he or she doesn't want to. But the more closely we follow the teachings of the New Testament, the more we will be forced to trust and rely upon God, the practice of which is an immeasurably greater asset than all the substitutes for Him that those who do not have Him rely on. 'Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, Just to take Him at His word; Just to rest upon His promise; Just to know, Thus saith the Lord. Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him, How I've proved Him o'er and o'er, Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus! O for grace to trust Him more.

Well, everyone has to start somewhere; none of us starts out very spiritual in our thinking, and we benefit from hearing and seeing those who are more mature. If you've been in a congregation that teaches and practices compromise, and which imitates the world, and which isn't firmly based and centered on the New Testament's teachings, and no one around you is very spiritually mature or very obedient, so that you think that that is the way all Christians are, and that that is normal and acceptable---and you also don't study the Bible for yourself or apply the teachings of the NT to your life as you learn them---you're not going to be very spiritual, no matter how long you've been saved. But even if they are infants in their thinking, they can be positively influenced by those who are more mature, and hopefully inspired and encouraged to grow themselves. We should take into consideration where a person is in his or her walk with the Lord and try to help them along as we can---if they desire to move forward, which hopefully they do---by pointing them to God's word and reflecting Jesus, by word and by example. And there's always potential for each of us to learn and grow more still, provided our hearts have not been hardened beyond the point of reach or recovery by stubborn refusal to listen to the Lord and do what He commands and desires us to do. Even without human examples around us---having the depraved world on one side and apostate Christians who love the world and aren't much distinguishable from it on the other---we still have God's word to look to for instruction and example, and His Spirit to teach us and guide us in His ways.

Thank you.