13 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months." (Revelation 11:1,2)

 

Revelation

11:2 But the court "which is without the temple" leave out and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. [KJV]

 

There is no temple of the Lords on the mount during the coming tribulation period

His next temple will be built during His millennial reign [Ezekiel 40]

The "outer court" is the outer court of God's heavenly temple. There is a temple in heaven right now, as well as a tent in heaven (on which the tabernacle that Moses made was based), and the ark of the covenant is also in heaven. The outer court of God's heavenly temple is His worshipers on earth, as I stated in the OP. The present heaven is not eternal; it will be destroyed along with the rest of this creation on the day of Christ's return, and a new one will be created, which will be eternal. It is in the new earth that heavenly Jerusalem will be (Revelation 21:1-4), in which there will be no temple (Revelation 21:22).

Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant was seen within His temple. (Revelation 11:19)

After this I looked, and the sanctuary of the tent of witness in heaven was opened, and out of the sanctuary came the seven angels with the seven plagues... (Revelation 15:5,6)

Now the point of what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man...They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, "See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain." (Hebrews 8:1,2,5)

Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, "Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God." (Revelation 16:1)

 

 

17 minutes ago, Diaste said:

 

 

I stand by what I wrote to you. I have nothing more to say to you about it. Time will show whether my interpretation is correct or not.

This is how earthly Jerusalem is described by God during the tribulation (during the reign of the antichrist): SODOM and EGYPT (Revelation 11:8).
 

 

 

Look out for dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. For we are the real circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh... (Philippians 3:2,3)


"Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship." 

Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father...The hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship Him. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth." (John 4:20-24)


"But it was Solomon who built a house for Him. Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says, "Heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool. What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord, or what is the place of My rest? Did not My hand make all these things?'

"You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it." (Acts 7:47-53)

And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. (Revelation 21:22)

 

 

There are many Christians who are anticipating the building of a/the third temple in Jerusalem, Israel (or Palestine)---either because they believe that it is going to be a good thing (that God will return to the Jewish people when the temple is rebuilt), or because they know that it is going to be built for the worship of the antichrist and see it as a sign of the Lord's imminent return.

Both are wrong.

The first camp is wrong because they believe that God wants the Jewish temple to be rebuilt (He doesn't; He is the one who destroyed the last one!) and is going to return to Judaism and to some temple that is going to be rebuilt in earthly Jerusalem, which He is not. Some of the Jews will return to God---through faith in Jesus Christ, whereby they will no longer be Jews by religion but Christians----but God is not going to return to either Judaism or to the Jewish temple if one is rebuilt in Jerusalem. If a temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem, it will be for the worship of the antichrist, not God. That's nothing to celebrate.

The second camp is wrong because they think that the rebuilding of the temple means that Jesus must be coming back soon, because they know that the temple will be rebuilt for the worship of the antichrist, and believe that Christians won't be here on the earth for that---when in fact, we will. Jesus is not coming back any minute; He is coming back on the last day of the great tribulation (which will be approximately three and a half years from when the antichrist's mark and worship are implemented and instituted----a period of testing and judgment of the saints, and of the judgment of the unsaved, which was "cut short"---that is, in half---by God from Daniel's original seven years), at which time He will destroy the antichrist. (But He won't take His seat in the temple in Jerusalem after doing so).


So, while camp two is correct about the temple being built for the antichrist and not for God, they are wrong about the timing of Christ's return. And they also misunderstand the meaning of 2 Thesssalonians 2:4, which speaks about the antichrist taking his seat in the temple of God and proclaiming himself to be God. 


I am going to explain here for you, with the help of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus---who has given me understanding to prepare His people for the time soon to come---the meaning and significance of this Scripture, and its implications for us (Christians). I hope you will take what I share with you to the Lord (with clean hands and a pure and sincere heart) and ask Him to show you the truth about it, so that you will know it for yourself with certainty, and do whatever may be appropriate for you to do about it.


Here is what 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4 says (quoting the English Standard Version translation of the Bible):


Let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.


The "rebellion" to which Paul is referring here is the rebellion of the saints (Christians), that is, apostasy, that will reach its peak in the last days. (See 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 4:3,4.) These same rebellious saints are the "transgressors" (of God's law, the law of Christ) referred to in Daniel 8:23. We are in the midst of those days now. It is only a matter of time before the antichrist is revealed and the tribulation begins. 


(And if you are saying to yourselves, "'Apostasy'? What 'apostasy'?" or "Christianity is doing great! It has some problems, sure, but it's not as bad as all that", Jesus said that a wicked and adulterous generation does not recognize the signs of the times, and that is what the majority of Christians today are in God's sight: Wicked and adulterous---lovers of self and of the world, unholy, and rebellious against the commandments and teachings of the New Testament and the will of God, which so many believe they do not have to live by, because to do so is 'legalism'. It's actually the love of God; and you don't have it if you don't obey Him (according to God, not me).

What did Jesus have to say to the church at Ephesus? To Sardis? To Laodicea (who didn't realize how wretched they were in God's sight, by the way)? Did He tell them they weren't that bad and that they had nothing to worry about because He had paid it all for them and because He knew they couldn't do any better and He didn't expect them to? No, He did not. You know very well what He said to them, and what had happened and was about to happen to them. 

Most Christians don't realize their own wretchedness in the sight of God and how far they have fallen short of His New Testament standard (which is still His standard), because they favor the teachings and opinions of men over the doctrine of Christ. You are the sign of the times, rebellious Christian; you are the "transgressor". You are fulfilling that Scripture, and the judgment of God is coming upon you---through the person of the antichrist.)
 

There is only one temple of God (on earth), and it will not be any temple that may be built in Jerusalem; nor will any temple built there be holy in any way. It will be a temple of Satan, for the worship of Satan, who will be indwelling the person of the antichrist and from whom all his power and 'wisdom' will come. That is not the temple of God. If such a temple is built, which I don't doubt one may be, it will be an utterly unholy place, where the antichrist and/or his image will most certainly belong---because it will be his temple!


This is the temple of God, (where the abomination of desolation does not belong):


Do you not know that you (brothers) are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy and you (brothers) are that temple. (1 Corinthians 3:16,17)
 

...You are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by His Spirit. (Ephesians 2:19-22)
 

As you come to Him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame." So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, "The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone," and "A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense." 
(1 Peter 2:4-8)


The cornerstone of the true temple of God is Jesus Christ---the very stone which the builders of any new Jewish temple have rejected. They will receive the antichrist as their messiah and as their god, and will build a temple for him. God has nothing whatsoever to do with it. It will no more be His temple than Saint Peter's Basilica.


So why do the Scriptures say that the antichrist will 'take his seat in the temple of God' if the temple of God is the church of Christ? Because most of the saints will fall away from Christ during the tribulation and will worship the antichrist---the abomination that makes desolate. Why will they do this? Because they do not love God, as they have been proving to Him by their rebellion against His word and His will, and He is going to judge them by giving the impenitent rebels among His people into the hand of the antichrist to be conquered and destroyed (spiritually). They will not have the spiritual support from Jesus to withstand the temptation when it comes, and so will choose to save and preserve their earthly lives by taking the mark of the beast and worshiping his image, rather than preserving their eternal life at the cost of persecution and martyrdom.


"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another...And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." (Matthew 24:9-13)


And some of the host and (or 'that is') some of the stars it (the antichrist) threw down to the ground and trampled on them. It became great, even as great as the Prince of the host. And the regular burnt offering was taken away from Him, and the place of His sanctuary was overthrown. And a host will be given over to it (the antichrist) together with the regular burnt offering because of transgression...Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, "For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?" And he said to me, "For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state." (Daniel 8:10-14)


The "host" mentioned here in Daniel is Christians (the people of Jesus Christ, who is the Prince of the host). The regular worship of God will be taken away from Him when the saints forsake Jesus Christ and worship the beast---the ultimate transgression, the abomination which makes desolate. Those who do this will be left desolate, just as the temple of the Jews was left desolate when they rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Only people who have God can be abandoned by Him and made desolate, and unsaved people are already empty and alone. They cannot be made desolate. (See also the Lord's warning to the church in Ephesus in Revelation chapter 2 related to this subject of saints being forsaken by God for apostasy.)


And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator. (Daniel 9:27)
(This is translated differently in the KJV, and the events mentioned in Daniel 9:24-27 are events with more than one fulfillment, the first fulfillment being the destruction of the Jewish temple and the city of Jerusalem in 70 AD.)

What 'wing of abominations' (or 'overspreading of abominations' KJV)? The outer court of God's heavenly temple---His worshipers on earth---which is presently filled with all manner of uncleanness, due to the apostasy of the saints. This is the 'outer court' which is going to be trampled by the children of the devil during the tribulation, just as the temple of the Jews was razed and trampled underfoot by the Gentiles as God's judgment on them for rejecting Jesus. The temple was not destroyed in an act of persecution against the Jews, but as an act of God's judgment on the Jews for being disobedient to the gospel. And He is about to judge Christians in the same way.


As Jesus said: "You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet." (Matthew 5:13)


"Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months." (Revelation 11:1,2)


The holy city is represented by her citizens (also the case in Revelation 20:9). Christians are the citizens of heaven and of the heavenly Jerusalem to come, and God recognizes us as His city on earth, just as His church is His temple on earth.


"Go now to My place that was in Shiloh, where I made My name dwell at first, and see what I did to it because of the evil of My people Israel. And now, because you have done all these things, declares the LORD, and when I spoke to you persistently you did not listen, and when I called you, you did not answer, therefore I will do to the house that is called by My name, and in which you trust, and to the place that I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. And I will cast you out of My sight..." (Jeremiah 7:12-15)



"I have forsaken My house; I have abandoned My heritage; I have given the beloved of My soul into the hands of her enemies. My heritage has become to Me like a lion in the forest; she has lifted up her voice against Me; therefore I hate her...Go assemble all the wild beasts; bring them to devour." (Jeremiah 12:7-9)



So do not become proud (Christians, Gentiles), but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches (the Jews), neither will He spare you (Christians, Gentiles). (Romans 11:21)



For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us (Christians), what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And "If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" (1 Peter 4:17,18)



So now you know what the abomination of desolation is, and what the "temple of God" in which the antichrist will take his seat will be. It won't be because Christians actually believe that the antichrist is God that they will take his mark and worship his image; they will not be deceived, just scared and jealous for themselves and their lives on earth rather than for their life in Christ, which they have already proven to God that they do not value. The non-elect will be deceived. Christians will not: Their taking of the mark will be an act of knowledgeable, willful sin---rebellion.



Whether the antichrist takes his seat in a Satanic third temple built in earthly Jerusalem or not, that is not the significance of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 for Christians.



If you are a transgressor of the law of Christ, a rebel who has been justifying his or her disobedience in this way or that, a Christian who does not have a good conscience toward God and who is fearful of death because your love for Him is imperfect (1 John 4:18), the time to repent is now. The saints who wash their robes will be delivered by God from the tribulation---whether by life or by death (mostly by the latter way). Those who do not repent will be overcome by the antichrist in the time of testing and will perish spiritually. 


Desolations are decreed. (Daniel 9:26)


One way or the other---either by sinning saints washing their robes, or by the soiled saints who refuse to do so being cleaned out of His city and His sanctuary by means of His judgment during the tribulation---which He will carry out through the antichrist, as He carried out His judgment on His former people through Nebuchadnezzar in the time of Jeremiah, whose time is a spiritual parallel to ours---at the end of those days, God's sanctuary will be cleansed, and will be restored to its rightful state when Christ returns and brings all things to an end.

24 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Galatians 4:21-31 is contrasting the difference between the two covenants. Paul even says, ' these women represent two covenants'.  Paul is very specific. Just because Sarah is said by Paul to represent the freedom of the NC embodied in the heavenly Jerusalem, dose not necessarily mean another woman, or any other woman in NT prophecy now represents Jerusalem. In fact there are great differences between Sarah and the woman of Rev 12, notably that Paul says, "These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants." 

Rev 12:5, "She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne." At the very least this is Bethlehem as Jesus  is the male child, and could not be synonymous with Jerusalem. 

Always Rome. Why Rome? How do we get to Rome? 

I listened to some supposed educated men opine about bible prophecy not long ago. Not that their opinion means anything unless it's got some scriptural backing, I was surprised to hear one of them say the Babylon from Rev 18 is yet to come. Guys like that are usually pretrib, in fact they are, and tend to teach biblical prophecy in a more liberal way, where I'm the opposite; literal and conservative. 

One of the main reasons why the Rev 18 Babylon is yet to come rises from the prophet Daniel. The kingdoms of the statue all ruled from a literal Babylon. A Babylon that existed in time and space. Nebuchadnezzar, Belshazzar, Artaxerxes, Darius, Alexander all ruled the world from Babylon. The Iron kingdom, the fourth in the statue, the legs of iron, which is the first world wide rule of Islam, also ruled this area. The coming iteration of Islam, which we see on the rise today in ISIS, is the feet and toes mixed clay and comes directly out the region of ancient Babylonia. This is no surprise as the Daniel 2 statue is connected from head to feet with 4 of the kingdoms all ruling the same city and region. Since the feet and toes are also connected the coming Iron kingdom will also rule from here. 

There will be a big difference in this next Babylon; it will come with great supernatural power the likes of which has not been seen for thousands or years.

Figuratively speaking, heavenly Jerusalem is the mother of Jesus in the sense that He came from heaven, and that those who are born of God (born-again) also come from heaven, figuratively speaking. All Christians (whether Jewish by birth or Gentiles)  are children of heavenly Jerusalem, the offspring of God's promise to Abraham as it was realized in Jesus---the Offspring in whom all are counted children of God. The woman in Revelation chapter 12 is the mother of all the saints. She is not Israel, and she is not the church, although she does contain some of the church (men of the body of Christ), and some of the children of natural Israel (Jews by birth who have been born-again). 

But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one (earthly Jerusalem) will be more than those of the one who has a husband (heavenly Jerusalem, whose husband is Christ. See Revelation 21:9,10 & Isaiah 62:2-4). Galatians 4:26, 27.

Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Revelation 12:17) 

I did not say (or mean) that the Roman empire was the kingdom of the beast, but that the kingdom of the beast was going to arise out of it---which it would have if the events of the Revelation had taken place at the time it was given to John, when Rome was the world power, and that Rome would have gone on to fulfill what is written about Babylon.

It should also be noted that at the time of Daniel's visions and writing, the Jews were God's chosen people, so the prophecies in Daniel have to be interpreted according to who the people of God are today, and those things which pertained to the Jews and to Judaism but not to us taken into consideration, as well as history since that time. Daniel writes of the end times as though the Jews (as a nation) are still the people of God, which they no longer are (but Christians are, whether they were Jews by birth or Gentiles). The Romans, and the final king who would have arisen out of the Roman empire, would have been the enemies of God's people if the Jews were still God's people and Judaism was still His religion. But that is not the case today. Today, Christians are God's chosen people, and the Jews are anti-Christ, historically persecutors of Christians, as the false messiah who will arise to be their king will also be. So the Scriptures have to be interpreted according to what is true now, and not according to what was true in Daniel's day which relates to what John described in the Revelation concerning Rome/Babylon.

(This is not something that is easy to explain, as you can see.) It requires the interpretation of the Holy Spirit to understand what pertains to what or whom and what represents what as we read the prophetic Scriptures---and not merely scholarship or knowing what the Bible says. It is God Himself, and not the text alone, who teaches us what His word means and gives us the right understanding of His truth, for there are as many possible interpretations of what is written as there are people reading the Bible.

When the antichrist rises to power, he will be the king, not only of Babylon, but of the entire world, as the head of the one-world-government. Babylon (the nation) will probably be the, or a, commercial center of the beast's kingdom, while Jerusalem will be the seat of its government and religion, with the antichrist reigning from there as king (in a false fulfillment of Messianic Scripture).

(I fully anticipate the antichrist and the false prophet claiming and seeming to fulfill many Messianic Scriptures that refer to Christ and His coming eternal kingdom. Comparing the various Scriptures about the antichrist and his kingdom with the Scriptures about Jesus and His kingdom, it's not difficult to see how the antichrist and the false prophet could use various Messianic Scriptures in the Prophets and the Psalms to "prove" that the antichrist is the long-awaited Messiah and king of the Jews. He will be to them and do for them everything that they desire and expect their messiah to be and to do, which Jesus Himself did not.)

Seeing as how the antichrist will be the false messiah and king of the Jews, he will not be a Muslim. The whole world (everyone who is not of God's elect) will follow and worship the beast, including those who are currently Muslims. There will be one religion for the whole world (and it will not be Islam, or Roman Catholicism). God will send them a strong delusion, with the demonic signs and wonders that the false prophet will be performing by the power of Satan, to deceive the world into worshiping the antichrist as God.

As for the feet and toes of the image Daniel saw (representing the kingdoms of the world) being iron mixed with clay, this has to do with sexual relations between demons and human woman, something that was also taking place in the days of Noah---which the Lord said that the days before His return (which will be the days of the beast's kingdom) would be like. The iron represents demons, the clay represents humans. The strength of this final kingdom will be demonic, and the weakness of it human. 

As you saw the iron mixed with clay, so they (demons and humans) will mix with one another in marriage*, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. (Daniel 2:43) *Aramaic: by the seed of men

(What the "strength" and "brittleness" resulting from these unions or relations will mean practically with regard to how the kingdom of the antichrist operates, or what its qualities will be, I do not know. It may just have to do with the power of demons being hindered or limited by human frailty and mortality.)

7 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I don't know about all that. As far as Rome being any kind of candidate for anything in end time prophecy is, I think, a nonstarter. I would not liken any prophetic scripture about the end of the age to a Roman fulfillment. Regarding the 7 hills thing...there are dozens of cities around the world that are built or claim to be built on 7 hills. Not sure Rome is the only viable choice for that prophecy. Mecca is also the city of 7 hills and so could seemingly fulfill this as well.

If the truth of " and of all that were slain upon the earth." is killing in war, then every country is a candidate. Many countries killed in war, and long before the US existed. Why this idea that the US and/or Rome must fulfill prophecies? I don't see that anywhere in scripture. The only possible place I see the US is, "The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach." Possibly this is the US assisting Israel in time of need. We are the great eagle. Maybe this is what the US was prepared to do. Maybe it's only true purpose. I cannot say for sure.

You'll probably say that Rome is the fourth kingdom in Daniel. Maybe you'll also cite Rev 17:10, "...one is...", therefore Rome. Overwhelming evidence points away from Rome and toward the Middle East; specifically Mesopotamia and the region of ancient Babylon. 

I'm just not convinced.

That's fine. We'll all know for certain soon enough, whether it is the U.S.A. or some other nation. I was merely pointing out that at this point in time the U.S., for several reasons, is the country that most closely parallels Rome, which was indeed Babylon (at the time that John was given the Revelation; not anymore.) Given the nearness of the tribulation, I don't see any other nation suddenly rising up to embody the qualities of Babylon, as described in the Revelation. There's not much time for another country to acquire the attributes of Babylon. The U.S.A. is present-day "Rome"; so unless something drastic quickly takes place to transform another nation to take the U.S.'s place as the "Rome" of today---in culture, influence and power (the most powerful country on earth, and the most influential also)---America is likely Babylon. (Other countries may fit some of what is written about Babylon, but none of them have as many of Babylon's attributes all together as the U.S. does currently.)

The U.S. is not involved in Revelation 12, by the way: The woman doesn't represent the nation of Israel, but heavenly Jerusalem---the mother of all the saints (Galatians 4:21-31), both Jew and Gentile---and the 144,000 male Jews who will be born of her (that is, born-again/saved) shortly before or at the beginning of the tribulation, whom God will supernaturally protect in a foreknown location in the mountains of Israel, near Megiddo (the plain where the battle of Armageddon will take place on the last day of the tribulation, when Jesus returns.) The "great eagle" is not a plane, nor the United States, but God Himself (see Deuteronomy 32:11,12), who will supernaturally transport these men to the place where He will protect them for the duration of the approximately three and a half year long tribulation, rescuing them from the forces of the antichrist, who will attempt to apprehend them as they flee Jerusalem. After these Christians escape by God's supernatural intervention and assistance, the antichrist will turn his attention to conquering and persecuting the rest of the Christians (children of heavenly Jerusalem).

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

Good morning.

I have done some research into this as well. You missed a couple things on your list.

Rev 18,

"wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! "

"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."

It's a city. One city. It doesn't represent a nation. If there is any representation it's a spiritual one. The city is real but also represents a foul spiritual condition. The real warning to come out of her is not physical; it's spiritual. Don't be like the evil of that great city.

In the Arab countries there are cities richer and far more disgusting than most cities in the world. 

China boasts the busiest port in the world. Of the top 10 ports in the world China has 7, including Hong Kong. The port of Los Angeles is the 17th busiest port. Interestingly, Dubai is the 9th. You should take a look at the lifestyle in Dubai. Fits Rev 18 like a glove.

But I don't know that it's any of these. One cannot get away from, "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.". What city is guilty of this? Or country? 

I think this is a city yet to come, or an existing city that becomes Rev 18.

It would not surprise me if Babylon the city rose again.

I maintain that Babylon represents a nation (like Rome---which would have been the fulfillment of the Scriptures about Babylon had the events of the Revelation taken place at the time it was given to John). America is the nation which most closely fits the description of Babylon in its similarity to what Rome was during its day. While Rome was an actual city, as well as a nation, modern day "Rome" (aka "Babylon"), probably refers more to a nation and its culture than just a city. (Not that a prominent harbor or coastal city won't necessarily be nuked at the time of her destruction---NYC would be my guess.) This is somewhat complicated to understand because, as I said, some of those things that pertain to Babylon as described in the Revelation (like Babylon being a city and being situated on seven mountains, as Rome was/is) were more relevant to Rome than they are to the nation Babylon represents today. 

We know that Rome was drunk with the blood of Christian martyrs (prophets among them, no doubt) who were killed by various Roman emperors. During the tribulation, present-day Babylon will be drunk with the blood of saints who will be put to death for refusing to take the mark of the beast or worship his image. (Of course, that won't only be happening in the United States, but also around the world.)

As for having the blood of all that were slain upon the earth in her (Babylon), this may be a reference to killing in war. Rome was a military nation, just like the United States is, and she killed people in various countries in warfare, just as the U.S. has/does (and some might say America has made something of a name for herself as a military nation that bombs people.)

If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared for them a city. (Hebrews 11:15,16)

 

...Here, we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come. (Hebrews 13:14)

 

           R

BABYLON

  M      M

  E       E

  R

  I

  COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE...

  A

 

In the days of the apostle John, at the time that the Lord gave him the revelation, “Babylon” was Rome.

America (the USA) is modern-day Rome: She is the nation that best fits the description of Babylon today. 

Rome (which would have been Babylon, had the events foretold in the Revelation taken place at the time it was given) was a city that was also a nation; so Babylon today (like the original city of Babylon), is not just a city but also representative of a nation.

 

The Babylon Checklist:

 

• America is the great importer and customer of the world. She buys all its goods, and other nations profit from and depend upon her business.  (Revelation 18:3, 11-14)
• America has dominion over the kings of the earth economically, and perhaps militarily. (Revelation 17:18)
• America is a multicultural nation, as Rome also was. (Revelation 17:15)
• America bought slaves (the transatlantic slave trade)---and she still has them, in the form of secret slavery and sex slavery---just as Rome bought slaves. (Revelation 18:13)
• America is wealthy, as Rome was. (Revelation 18:16,17)
• America is a self-indulgent lover of pleasures, as Rome was. (Isaiah 47:8, Revelation 18:7)
• All the nations of the world have drunk the wine of the passion of America’s sexual immorality, through her sexually immoral and perverted movies and music, which are exported to the nations of the world and enjoyed by them. (Jeremiah 51:7, Revelation 17:2, 18:3)
• America is the mother of earth's abominations, via the influence of her movies and music, and her immoral pop-culture and values, which the nations of the world imbibe and emulate, corrupting themselves likewise. (Revelation 17:5)

 

(Contrary to popular belief, and the assertions of some patriotic Americans, the United States of America was not founded as a Christian nation, nor is it a Christian nation. The USA is not a theocracy, and it is not governed by the New Testament, even though some Biblical principles may have been included in or have influenced its constitution and some of its founding fathers may have been deists or Christians. The history of this country is not a Christian history according to the New Testament’s teachings, even though a majority of its population may have historically been professing Christians of some kind. And it certainly isn’t in any way a Christian nation now, by government or by culture, even though Christians live here---quite comfortably, I might add...)

Of all the nations in the world, the USA is the one that lines up best with the Bible’s description of Babylon, the great city of the last days (which city could be New York City---the home of Wall Street, and the most iconic and famous American city---representative of the whole of the USA, as the city of Rome was representative of the Roman nation and as the city of Babylon was representative of the Babylonian nation).

 

So, the Lord’s call to His people who are dwelling in Babylon is to come out of her, spiritually:

 
Do not partake of her forbidden and corrupting delicacies, which surround you. 

Do not make her standards your standard. 

Do not embrace her ideologies and 'wisdom', which are contrary to Christian doctrine (the doctrine of the New Testament), and anti-Christ. 

Do not become adulterers in your hearts, in love with the pleasures and comforts of the land in which you sojourn. 

Do not compromise the word of God in order to have what Babylon offers you and to be comfortable and prosperous in her, which is not what you were called to by God. 

 

Come out of her spiritually, brothers and sisters---if you have become like her---and save your lives. If you come out of her spiritually, and cleanse and separate yourselves from Babylon’s corrupting influences and unGodly ways, God will also deliver you from her physically. He will not destroy the righteous with the wicked. But if you love her, and will not separate yourself from her because you love her, and your treasure is here, and you have found your life here, and you are partaking in her sins and will not repent of them, you will not escape her judgments, or save your life.

 

“Come out of her, My people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues…” (Revelation 18:4)

You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?
But He gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you.
Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you. (James 4:4-10)

But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints…For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure (take heed, those of you who are indulging in pornography), or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Be ye not therefore partakers with them.) (Ephesians 5:3-7)

We are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober… (1 Thessalonians 5:5-8)

Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Romans 13:13,14)

Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming (on the children of disobedience). (Colossians 3:5,6)

Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 6:17,18; 7:1)

Do not love the world, or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world---the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions---is not from the Father but is from the world. (1 John 2:15,16)

He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto eternal life. (John 12:25)

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. (1 John 5:21)
 

28 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

To love the Lord God with all the heart mind soul and to love your neighbor as yourself .    Fullfills the entire law .

To love GOD with all the heart mind soul  , however is what many in the church have forgotten and thus no matter how many good works

they might do,   they don't even fulfill love your neighbor as yourself .

Loving GOD above everything IS THE KEY to it all.    IF we truly love GOD above everything then we LOVE the SON above all things .

That means HIS SAYINGS we love above all things .   A man who loves ME , keeps my sayings .   And love your neighbor as yourself IS one of those

so are His other sayings .     Their is something truly amazing about THE LOVE that comes From God , versus , the sensual love that only the world does know

Which in truth is not love .     Love rejoices in TRUTH   .    So any love no matter if it has good works ,  if it says put unity above Truth ,

if it puts humanity before GOD .   ITS NOT LOVE .   But this type of love IS what is filling houses full .

Love is truly seen IN GOD  , it comes from GOD .    Whom GOD loves HE corrects,   I seen this love in the apostels

I see how they truly cared for the church .    Paul even says we said this not for the sake of the one who was wronged , nor he that did the error

but that his love for them would be seen.   LOVE corrects , it does all for the sake of the other .    The perfect example

of Love ,   is seen IN CHRIST HIMSELF .      He showed mercy on the lady who had commited adultery .   He said nor do I condmen you

But GO and SIN NO MORE  .   yeah he loved her so he warned her go and sin no more .   He does this to the man he healed as well.

Go and sin no more lest something worse come upon you.    JESUS is Love.    But the sensual jesus getting preached by more and more

AINT Love at all.   Making light of sin ,  IS NOT love.   Allowing one to remain in sin , or not exhorting the memebers    is not love.

Why do we think paul says THOUGH the more abundatenly I love , THE LESS I be loved .    read the whole of it .

If we are warning and we don't desire the ones we warn to truly hear , repent .    Then we have lost something big time .

But also if we just take all things lightly just focusing on relationships but NOT Sound doctrine , NOT Christ , then we are in danger big time as well.

You be blessed Light shines in the darkness.   I was not saying you do the wrong things,   I am just reminding us all in general.  

I understood you. Amen.

1 hour ago, patrick jane said:

Jude - KJV - 

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

² Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

³ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

⁴ For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

⁵ I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

⁶ And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

⁷ Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

⁸ Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

⁹ Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

¹⁰ But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

¹¹ Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

¹² These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

¹³ Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

¹⁴ And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

¹⁵ To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

¹⁶ These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

¹⁷ But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

¹⁸ How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

¹⁹ These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

²⁰ But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

²¹ Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

²² And of some have compassion, making a difference:

²³ And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

²⁴ Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

²⁵ To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

A good question: How did these men creep in unnoticed (or unawares)?

Know your God, and know His word. You can't guard yourself or others against something that you don't recognize as false.

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. (1 John 5:2-4)

"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

And He said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Matthew 22:37-39)

 

But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead.

Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.

But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, 'Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.'

Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?"

He said, "The one who showed him mercy."

And Jesus said to him, "You go, and do likewise." 

(Luke 10:29-37)

 

 

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of Godliness, but denying its power. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)

 

Are you one of them?

 

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our hearts before Him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and He knows everything. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God... (1 John 3:19-21)

 

TRUTH: If you're not loving God by keeping His commandments, you're not loving others either; and if you're not loving others as God says to love them, you're not loving God.

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that He might present the church to Himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church...

...Let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she *respects (phobetai) her husband. 

(Ephesians 5:25-29,33 ESV)

 

*Phobetai (she fears) in Greek means to fear in reverence, the same kind of fear that Christians are to have towards God. The way a wife treats her husband is the way she treats Christ, and she will have to give an account to the Lord for it, just as husbands will have to give an account to Him for how they treated their wives.

 

For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord.

(1 Peter 3:6 ESV)

 

Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. (1 Peter 3:7 ESV)

We all stumble in many ways. (James 3:2)

 

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

 

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (1 John 2:1)

 

Perfection is unattainable in this life, due to our sinful nature, but it is always the goal for those who love the Lord. Keep the NT standard---God's standard---as your standard, and the example of Christ as your example, and you will remember how to walk and will rightly strive for perfection and will do well. 

Adopt a different standard, and you will be content to settle for less; but the NT standard remains the Christian standard, nevertheless, so we who are in Christ would all do well to remember what that is and keep to it, as this is the standard we will be judged according to, and not our own or someone else's.

 

...The one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing. (James 1:25)

 

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:25)

"But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48)

 

"Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19)

(A REMINDER FROM THE WORD OF GOD...)

 

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,

and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains,

but have not love,

I am nothing.

If I give away all I have, 

and if I deliver up my body to be burned,

but have not love,

I gain nothing. 

(1 Corinthians 13:1-3)

LOVE...

Is patient

Kind

Not arrogant

Not rude

Does not insist on its own way

Is not irritable

Is not resentful

Does not rejoice at wrongdoing

Rejoices with the truth

Bears all things

Endures all things

(1 Corinthians 13:4-7)

 

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. (1 John 4:7,8)

 

If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. (1 John 4:20,21)

 

By this we know love, that He laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3:16-18)

 

For this is the message you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous.

...Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:11,12,15)

 

Let love be genuine. (Or "without dissimulation") (Romans 12:9)

 

Love does no wrong to a neighbor... (Romans 13:10)

 

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you. (Ephesians 4:31,32)

 

"All things are lawful," but not all things are helpful. "All things are lawful," but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. (1 Corinthians 10:23,24)

 

And He said to His disciples, "Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.

Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' you must forgive him." (Luke 17:1-4)

 

But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 

Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. (1 Corinthians 8:7-13)

 

I know and am persuaded in the Lord that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. So do not let what you consider good be spoken of as evil. (Romans 14:14-16)

 

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:31,32, 11:1)

 

We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. For Christ did not please Himself... (Romans 15:1-3)

 

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20)

 

Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love. (1 Corinthians 16:13,14)

 

And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. (2 John 6)

 

(All Scripture taken from ESV.)

9 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Your point taken.  As i see it or experience the scripture in real life here, the believer would go through a number of things that would draw him closer to the Lord as he goes through life trials.    Those who would live Godly would be persecuted, [ however one would define this persecution] and this would teach him to whom he is to look for his help, learn to pray and rebuke evil and wickedness that comes to confront him.  He would be in essence, training as a soldier to stand firm in adversity.   

The Lord gives us his promises that he would not leave us nor forsake us, who are steadfast in his word and worship of him and him alone.   When a believer has encountered the spiritual world and witness the evil and the truth that the scripture speaks of it, he just cannot go back or turn his back.   Let me say this too, the devil is a master deceiver and only your personal experience with his craftiness would embolden you to reject his lies and deceitfulness. He does not give up on pursuing you to give in, hence the believer putting on the full armor of God.  

 

2 Timothy 2 King James Version (KJV)

 ²⁶ And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

1 Peter 4 King James Version (KJV)

¹² Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

¹³ But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

I don't think the believer is left to live a carnal life on his own.  As the scripture verse above states, you are to partake in Christ sufferings  in this life.  The believer who is living right before the Lord may go through terrible ordeals that would draw him closer and closer to cling to his savior. 

No, God doesn't just leave us alone to fend for ourselves after He saves us. He certainly works with us and teaches us, protects and guides us in the way we should go. And ideally, all Christians would pursue the knowledge of Him, be faithful to Him and trust Him, and keep following Him to the end of their course. But desires for other things can and do creep in, and when the Christian is confronted with the choice between something he or she really wants (or does not want to do) and what God says to do or wants them to do, and they choose themselves rather than Him, it is a slippery slope that leads backwards and away from Him. Even though He chastens us, we don't all respond to it in the way we should.

Choosing to disobey the Lord also makes us more susceptible to temptation and deception by demons. (Submit yourselves, therefore, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.)

How we fare as Christians has much to do with our own personal choices, and not merely with God's will and His faithfulness. (We can see an example of this in the Lord's messages to the seven churches in the Revelation---how God's faithfulness doesn't guarantee that all Christians will do well and fare well, and that not all Christians are of the same quality.) Make the wrong choices, and you won't realize God's good purposes. Turn aside from following Him to have your own way and you won't receive the spiritual blessings He wants you to have, or fulfill His purpose for you.

We each make our choices, day by day, and making the right choices (choosing the Lord, no matter what) is habit forming, as is making the wrong ones (choosing ourselves). Even the apostle Paul recognized that if he ceased to be faithful to Jesus and didn't run his course to the end, he himself would be disqualified from the prize of eternal life, even after all he had done. (Like what it says in Ezekiel 18:24.)

With the renewing of our minds, and the strong love bond that is forged between the Christian and Jesus through trials and perseverance, it becomes impossible for a Christian to go back to the world and be happy there. But the renewing of the mind depends on our own faithfulness to God in applying His word to our lives and doing His will. If we don't do this as we ought, He will not renew our minds with greater understanding and more of His desires, and we'll stay spiritually immature; and spiritually immature Christians are much more easily deceived, and tempted by the things of this world, than are mature ones, as they are still more like the world in their thinking than they are like Christ.

1 minute ago, warrior12 said:

The scripture verse below should or would be the motto of the believer and is stuck to his mind as a reminder of who he is in Christ.  No mark for that believer. Note, my preference is to say believer as Christian can be vague to it's meaning to many.

Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

³⁸ For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

³⁹ Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

That is very true, provided the Christian remains in Christ, which he has the choice to do or not to do after coming to be in Him. The Christians in the church in Ephesus were not going to remain in Christ; neither were the Christians in Sardis or Laodicea, unless they repented of their apostasy. There are plenty of scriptures that show that a true Christian (a person who has been born-again, not merely someone who professes to be a Christian) can forfeit his or her salvation; so bear in mind that Romans 8:38,39 does not include "or anything we do", because it's obvious from many other New Testament scriptures that we ourselves can indeed separate ourselves from Christ and be cut off from Him by our own choices.

45 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

So just for argument sake.  How would you avoid a literal mark from the authorities that would have all the mechanics and technology to put you to sleep and implement or engrave you with that stamping ect.   If you or anyone have been through spiritual warfare, you would understand clearly that the enemy can plant thoughts of persuasion and sensuality ect, to  try and  test you to the limit.   This is real and not an imagination or conjecture.   

The Christian has to recognize that when he is born again, he now becomes a spiritual man, the flesh is dead, so to speak. It is the spirit that rules and takes the offensive to do the will of God. 

 

Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

⁹ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

¹⁰ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Because it's clear from the Scriptures that the mark will be voluntary (for Christians at least; it's possible that an unsaved person might be forced to take it). God would not allow a Christian to be forced to do something He warns us not to do. 

Revelation 14:9-12

There will be plenty of demonic deception and temptation during that time of testing to try to persuade Christians to take the mark, one way or the other---which will be the antichrist's ultimate goal towards us: To persuade as many Christians to take the mark and worship his image as possible, and so forfeit their eternal life, which is what it means to be "conquered" or overcome by the antichrist.

But Christians will know exactly what the mark is, and what the consequences of taking it are, and that the antichrist is not God. If they take it, it will be because they want to stay alive and not to suffer persecution or personal loss for not taking it.

31 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Do you really believe a "born again" believer would take the mark of the beast ?.  Unless you believe a born again believer can loose his salvation.

 

Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)

³ Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

⁴ Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

⁵ For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Yes.

24 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

I used to be of the Catholic faith. I am grateful to have come out of it.

what do i teach incorrectly?

the RCC is a False religion.

and yes the great danger is that now many evangelicals are embarking on uniting with the RCC

The Marc of the beast will be the Mark OF THE BEAST.

We need to warn people to come out of the RCC church

If you are Redeemed by Gods Grace through HIS plan of Mercy and Grace through Christ JESUS you have nothing to fear, because you will know better than than to take the Mark of the BEAST.

 

 

I wasn't specifically referring to you with regard to false teaching but to what is being taught (and not taught) in Christianity today, and accepted by the church. Accepting Catholicism as true Christianity is only one of the near-sighted, wandering church's errors, albeit a significant one, and likely preparation for the false prophet, who will probably be a pope.

The time for people to get saved is almost up. When the last of God's elect (sheep) among the Gentiles has been found (saved), His last days remnant of 144,000 Jewish men from the twelve tribes of Israel will be sealed (saved). Once they are sealed, everyone who is going to get into the ark will be in the ark, before God's judgments begin to fall on the earth. There won't be anyone left to be found; all the rest of those who are not saved will be goats.

Very few of the people in this world are lost sheep. Most are goats. Many are called but few are chosen. Likewise, most of the people in the world who profess to be Christians are not born-again.

Christians need to be getting out of the contaminated, adulterous EVANGELICAL churches that have departed from the word of God and are doing what they please in Jesus' name, and to draw as close to the Lord as they possibly can, to prepare for the tribulation, and to exhort other Christians to do the same.

"If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of His anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

(Revelation 14:9-12)

There would be no need for God to include a warning to the saints about this if there was no danger or possibility of Christians taking the mark. God would not be calling unsaved people who merely profess to know Him to "endure" and not to take the mark, as they're already dead and it won't make any difference whether they take it or not. Besides the fact that the Bible tells us that the non-elect will all worship the beast and take his mark, and that God will send them a strong delusion in order for them to do so. They will have no choice but to take the mark. True Christians will not be deluded and will have a choice.

Make no mistake about it, Christians will definitely be tempted to take the mark, in order to be able to buy and sell and to avoid persecution and loss, and many of them will do it---out of fear and desperation, and not knowing what or who to believe when they realize they were wrong about a pre-tribulation rapture. You can imagine how a person who had his or her heart set on a false teaching like that and believed that it was God's word and promise would have doubts about other things he or she thought they knew, and about God's truthfulness and reliability, when what they were taught would happen and believed would happen doesn't happen.

What will determine whether a Christian is a victor or not during the Tribulation has less to do with his or her being correct about the timing of the rapture than it has to do with whether the Christian's heart is right with God or not.

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before Him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and He knows everything. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God, and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do what pleases Him. (1 John 3:19-22)

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. (1 John 4:18)

...The eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to give strong support to those whose heart is blameless toward Him. (2 Chronicles 16:9)

Don't enter the tribulation with known sin in your life and expect God to support you. If you have it, repent of it now. Enter the time of testing with a good conscience toward Him and a willing spirit and not a bad conscience and a stubborn spirit, and He will bring you safely through it by His mercy and His power. But the stubbornly rebellious will fall.

33 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

True believers would not take the mark as spirit of truth would be written on their foreheads.  In the past couple of months, i have faced some spiritual battles that almost lead to death.  Even as three weeks ago i thought i would not make it to see another day.  If i could only describe the situations it would sound absurd, but nevertheless it is the truth.  The devil can indeed put us through severe trials to get us to denounce our faith and go back to the old man, but i kept the faith and persevered.   I was drawn out and so week that i had to take days off from work as i simply could not function.  

In the past i have had many similar situations, but this time it was like indeed bow to our system or die.  The days are certainly getting grimmer as government controls and the task of living gets more complicated with rules and regulations being implemented.

The 5G wireless network implementation and the "internet of things" soon to be installed throughout the USA, would be a game changer indeed, as i understand that citizens would not have a choice as to these networks being installed in their neighborhoods.  Some IT gurus are claiming that these wi-fi signals would do much harm to the human body.  The speed though and the many uses would certainly be embraced by the most people and it's your call as if this would be a benefit or part of the mark of the beast system.  What say you ?.  

I believe that the Bible is clear about the mark of the beast being a literal mark on a person's hand or forehead---not a spiritual mark, as some suggest, like the seal of God (which is symbolic of the Holy Spirit in a person). The word for "mark" used in the Bible for the mark of the beast means something like "engraving" or "imprint" in the original Greek: "charagma". So that's what I believe it will be; some sort of physical mark on a person's forehead or hand that identifies him or her as being loyal to the antichrist---like a brand---and not a microchip embedded under the skin.