1 minute ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

You may have wondered why I put a praise the LORD .    Because I say fear not a thing man can do.  and REJIOCE when you are persecuted

NO fear of what is coming , no fear of man.   I had rather die ten thousand deaths and have Christ, then to live even as a king conformed to this wicked world and its system.

JESUS has freed those who are HIS .  and they will not fear man, loss, sufferings and even death.  THEY WILL ABOUND through all things

for greater iS HE in those who are his than they in the world .    A posse is at work even as we speak.    They are worn out with the warners

and will come against them in all places .    So be it ,   I LOVE CHRIST HIS SAYINGS and if it costs me all, AMEN I WILL ABOUND IN HIM .  PRAISE THE LORD

PRAIES THE LORD .  PRAISE THE LORD and again I say PRAISE THE LORD .    no fear of what is coming and it will get worse . 

For we know that if the tent, which is our earthly home, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened---not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. (2 Corinthians 5:1-5)

This world is the wilderness, not the promised land, and our bodies are the tents in which we sojourn, but our eternal mansion is with God. Be jealous for Jesus, your eternal life, and not for your earthly life. For the time is coming when you will have to choose between your earthly life and your eternal life, when the mark of the beast is implemented, and the persecution begins.

26 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

FORWARD MARCH .     SOLIDER UP IN THE LORD PEOPLES .    Let all have the whole armour of GOD on for the devil does not sleep as many thinks.

Through our faith in Christ alone submit all unto GOD , resist the devil and he will flee.

Onward through the trenches ,     I think a purge is coming even to sites ,    many will begin to gather to purge out those who remind of truth and holiness

of keeping Christs sayings .  of warning against sin and error.       I believe their is a gathering not just on sites but it will increase in churches as well.

Under the feel good and hugs group that corrects nothing , but the correctors ,  they will find no rest for their souls , so long as the true correctors are around .

They will see those that preach , holiness , righteousness , yes by what grace alone teaches us ,   they will see these are false.

THey will be led more into hugs and getting along and will come against anything that stirs them up and reminds them about a HOLY WALK

and they will see these as false .     It will get worse .   they will see them as the enemy .   As time goes on they will see them as dangerous

as time goes on, when the Christ call ANTI rises and comes in the name of peace love and unity , they will follow HIM and his advice will be RID the earth of these non confomers .

The unity ones will increase , their mission will increase , their fear and anger towards those who keep correcting will increase and hate leads to murder .

We have got to stay the course and if we die because we PUT CHRIST FIRST and loved all so we warned all,  THEN SO BE IT .   

"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another...And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." (Matthew 24:10,12,13)

58 minutes ago, Yowm said:

The issue is fruit but in this hypothetical circumstance of your, I would say God would 'take them home' early since He is not willing that any should perish.

By His mercy He might do so, as He did with those brothers of the church in Corinth who were partaking of the Lord's supper in an unworthy manner. But that it is not God's will that any of His sheep should perish has to do with His election, not with unconditional eternal security. All of Jesus' lost sheep will be found (saved). But after being saved, whether they stay saved is up to them. There are conditions for remaining in Christ. No one can take us out of Jesus' hand, but we ourselves can be unfaithful to Him and lose our place in Him.

Why do you think there are so many admonitions and warnings for Christians to remain faithful and to persevere after coming to be in Christ? God doesn't want unsaved people to persevere or to be faithful (nor can they be); He wants His saints to. That we were chosen from eternity by God for mercy rather than wrath has to do, again, with election and our having been chosen to be saved, rather than prepared for destruction, as goats are. But just because that is God's will for us doesn't mean we can't choose to reap His wrath anyway by what we choose to do after being saved, as Hebrews 10:26-31 and many other scriptures warn.

God is absolutely able to keep us safe to the end, as we ourselves desire and choose to follow Him; but God's ability and faithfulness are of no use to those who refuse to obey Him. He's not going to override their free will and force them to be faithful to Him to the end of their course. If we are faithful, we will receive what God predestined us for, and which we have, so long as we choose to keep it; but if we are not faithful, we'll be broken off of Christ just like the Jews before us were. Predestination guarantees that we will receive eternal life, not that we will keep it.

We can ignore or misinterpret the warning scriptures, but they're in there for us, and they're meant for our good, just like the encouraging ones.

30 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Sure, but if they are His, God has His ways of dealing with His obstinate ones...

And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
(Heb 12:5-12)
 

 

Of course. But even when God chastens us we can still refuse to respond. That's why it says not to regard lightly (or despise) the discipline of the Lord. God certainly does chasten His own, but it's up to the Christian how he or she responds to the discipline, and whether he or she even acknowledges it as such, rather than being stubborn and hardening his or her heart and making excuses for what happens to them.

Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness. (Hebrews 12:9,10) Mind you this is written to people who are already spiritually alive.

Without (practical) holiness no one will see the Lord.

So what do you think is going to happen to Christians who choose to despise the Lord's discipline, not to submit themselves to God, and not to be holy? (There are some who say that that is impossible; but obviously it is possible or the admonition wouldn't be there. And it's obviously written for people who are born-again because God only chastens His children.)

The answer is Hebrews 10:26-31.

10 minutes ago, Yowm said:

No one can flee from God's Spirit if the Holy Spirit resides in them. 

They can't flee from Him in terms of Him being in them, but they can stifle His conviction and refuse to respond to it. And they can choose what they read from the Bible so as to avoid being convicted by God's word, and choose a pastor who preaches what they want to hear.

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

"Positional holiness is not a substitute for practical holiness", this is true, but without the knowledge of positional holiness (that Christ is our righteousness and we are counted righteous on account of Christ) we would end up attempting righteousness (merit before God) via our own righteousness. I see a lot of pride swarming around due to this misunderstanding and it manifests itself in statements containing 'we' vs 'they' when referring to fellow  Christians.

IOW, we have not one iota to boast about for any growth God has done in us and through us.

 

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
(1Co 15:10)
 

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(Tit 2:11-14)
 

 

Pride is not holy; so anyone who is proud of being 'holier' than others is foolish in his thinking, and not as holy as he thinks he is. (For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Galatians 6:3) 

Neither is competition, boasting, or contempt for other Christians (even if something he or she is doing may be contemptible to God and to us). 

Without positional holiness, there can be no practical holiness, only self-righteousness. But positional holiness in Christ isn't going to save a Christian from the consequences of being practically unholy in Christ. 

(Christians who don't think they have to obey the Lord and who don't want to obey Him may accuse those who insist upon obedience to Him of being proud, self-righteous and judgmental, and of preaching salvation by works and a mean and angry God.)

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before Him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and He knows everything. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do what pleases Him. (1 John 3:19-22)

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

(1 John 4:18)

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay."

And again, "The Lord will judge His people."

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31)

13 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Them he called them he justified , them he justified them he santicifies .

I think the problem is  simply this .    What you said their IS TRUE .    And I have by grace long know this is true .

But due to the fact I come being grave , or warning and reminding ,   it seems to cause people to THINK I am works earned based salvation , when in fact

I am just exhorting and reminding , because the truth is many do become hardned through sin.    Every pattern the Christ and apostles set

IS for our good  ,that we are careful to maintain good works ,  and to do those things pleasing IN HIS SIGHT.

And if we read in revelations,     Allowing people to be seduced by false leaders , IS NOT pleasing in HIS SIGHT , it angers HIM to allow such a thing .

It angers GOD when we allow false doctrines to be taught , when we allow other gods to be honored for whatever reason .

When we allow sins to be left unchecked and uncorrected and if we ourselves live in that , this all angers God.

Leaving the first love is deadly.    God said all things for our benefit , that we who heed HIS SPIRIT may have the real HOPE

and to correct and also remind to not do what is pleasing n Gods eyes and to be doing what IS pleasing in HIS SIGHT .

Therefore as I asked yowm.  WHY don't we start over .  Start with both warnings and encouragings.    We need to examine and exhort .

If we remain calm and don't get upset if a error is spotted , but rather examine what is said by another for ourselves , this can be done quite quickly.

IF not just arguing and strife .  

It's sad that there are Christians who view exhortations to love the Lord by being obedient to Him, just as His word says---in order to please God, reap the benefits of doing so and avoid the consequences of not doing so---as the Scriptures themselves do, as an unwelcome threat to and attack upon their personal happiness and opinion of themselves. But if our personal happiness is not in the Lord and in doing what is pleasing to Him, but rather in doing what pleases ourselves or in what is not pleasing to the Lord, then we should not be happy as we are. And if our opinion of ourselves does not agree with God's perspective, it needs to be adjusted.

If we feel attacked and threatened by the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the word of God, and the teachings of the New Testament "interfere" with our life rather than directing it, then neither our life nor our heart towards the Lord are as they should be.

The Bible is not merely something to be read to make us feel better about ourselves and what we desire to do or are choosing to do; it is supposed to instruct and convict us, and to encourage us to do what is right. Christians who only want to pluck choice bits out of it are not reading it sincerely or correctly and are doing themselves a disservice. They only want to hear what they want to hear in order to do what they want to do and believe what they want to believe, and not what is true and right and what God knows they need to hear and wants them to hear.

To such Christians I say, "Consider your ways." God surely does; and you are only fooling yourself, to your own shame, loss and harm, by pushing away the truth in order to have your own way. You don't think the Lord knows why you're doing what you're doing?

There are two ways to respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and of the word of God:

1. Repent, submit, and obey

2. Run, hide, and make excuses

Those who make a habit of responding in the first way will do well. Those who make a habit of responding in the second way will not.

And that's not according to me, but according to the word of God---regardless of how anybody picks through it to take only what he wants out of it.

For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

"I will make My dwelling among them

and walk among them,

and I will be their God,

and they shall be My people.

Therefore go out from their midst,

and be separate from them, says the Lord,

and touch no unclean thing;

then I will welcome you, 

and I will be a father to you,

and you shall be sons and daughters to Me,

says the Lord Almighty."

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

(2 Corinthians 6:16-18; 7:1)

...Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that He might present the church to Himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

(Ephesians 5:25-27)

Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. (Romans 6:13)

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:19-25)

Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness.

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled.

...For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce unGodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and Godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession who are zealous for good works. (Titus 2:2-6, 11-14)

POSITIONAL HOLINESS IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR PRACTICAL HOLINESS

All Christians (every one who is in Christ) are positionally holy in terms of being consecrated. But being positionally holy is not the same as being practically holy: A man can be sanctified and consecrated but practically unholy. And God desires our practical holiness (without which no one will see the Lord, Hebrews 12:14). We were made holy to be holy. 

As it says in 1 Peter: As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:14-16)

For we are indeed a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession, that we may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called us out of darkness into His marvelous light (1 Peter 2:9)---not just by what we say, but by how we are, which the world observes, as does God who saved us.

Therefore, having been sanctified by God and purified by the blood of Christ through faith, and having been made vessels for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the Master of the house, ready for every good work (2 Timothy 2:21),

let us build ourselves up in our most holy faith, by applying the teachings of the New Testament to our lives with diligence and care. The more of God's truth we apply to our lives, the more practically holy we are; for it is the teaching that gives us the understanding of how to follow the Lord by conforming our conduct and attitudes to His and pursuing His desires, and it is the increasing knowledge of Him that renews our minds to be more like His own.

As the Lord said, "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth." (John 17:17)

So apply the teachings of the New Testament to your life, and live by them---collectively and not selectively---and keep in step with the Holy Spirit, and you will be holy. Neglect to do this appropriately and you will not be. And without holiness, no one will see the Lord.

"You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet." (Matthew 5:13)

"In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."

...But you, beloved, build yourselves up in your most holy faith; pray in the Holy Spirit; keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. (Jude 18, 20, 21)

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10)

4 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Wasn't that a manifestation of the Spirit?!

"But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
    for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
        to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
            to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
                to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues." - 1 Corinthians 12:7-10

 

Is manifestation and dwelling of the Holy Spirit two separate things?! Can people manifest without having the dwelling Holy Spirit?!

Again, Matthew 7:22 comes to mind... Or may have nothing to do with it?!

 

Thank you!

As far as Matthew 7:22 goes, if God wants to work through an unsaved person to cast out a demon, or speak through a person for some reason (like He spoke through Balaam's donkey, and as in the examples in 1 Samuel 19:18-24 and John 11:45-53), He certainly can. God can use anything He wants to do whatever He wants. But that doesn't mean the instrument He uses knows Him. Plus there are plenty of folks who prophesy falsely in Jesus' name and who pretend to heal and to cast out demons (including some on Christian television stations no doubt, for $$$); and there are lots of unsaved men and women who do all sorts of great works in Jesus' name---building orphanages and feeding the poor and such, and who perform stunts like handling rattlesnakes and drinking poison; and demons can do counterfeit miracles also (magic), which they may do through an unsaved person who claims to be a Christian and who attributes whatever the demons do to the Holy Spirit.

And no, people cannot have genuine manifestations of the Holy Spirit if they do not have the Holy Spirit, although God may work through them to do something, as I explained above, which would be the exception rather than the rule if He did; it's not a sign that Christ is in them. Plus, Jesus said 'By their fruits you will know them' (not merely by their miracles, which demons can imitate; and He even mentioned signs and wonders with regard to being ware of false christs and false prophets, Mark 13:22,23).

39 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Amen....very much agree......and I know by experience that what you are saying is true as well, because of having gone through it in my life.  I know just how the teachings of man confuse and muddy the simple truth, because I was in that place for a long time.  Whereas the Holy Spirit helps us to rightly divide the scriptures and understand who/what is being addressed.

I also remember very well what it is like to not know how to rely on or have experience of the Holy Spirit, so that is why I sometimes can tell those who have not yet received the Holy Spirit since they believed.  That is not an accusation, it is just something we all very much need in the battle.......the church or denomination that some people adhere to does not preach to be filled with the Spirit, nor lay on hands and pray for it for their flock.....and I encourage any who are lacking in that area to seek the Lord about it.  People certainly may be saved without being filled with the Holy Spirit.....it is like when Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, receive ye the Holy Spirit....they were saved because they believed on Him and had the Holy Spirit......but just not in the sense of being filled yet, until it became possible at Pentecost.  So if I think that someone is not filled with the Holy Spirit, it doesn't mean I don't believe they are saved.  Paul asked some, "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?"  He wasn't accusing them at all, but making known to them something that they needed.

All Christians have received the Holy Spirit (or else they are not truly born-again and are Christians in name only), but not all Christians are full of the Spirit, as some teach and believe. The born-again experience and the filling of the Holy Spirit are two different experiences, even though they may occur simultaneously in some cases; and most Christians have not been filled (whatever they may have been taught or told). One does not need to be filled with the Spirit in order to be saved, but it does come with various spiritual advantages, such as boldness and greater discernment---two things which are notably lacking in the Church today.

A word of general advice: 

One very important key to having a correct understanding of Christian doctrine is knowing what is written about whom and what is written to whom: 

Is the scripture written to or about people who are born again, or is it written to or about those who are not? Is it written about people who have never known God but have professed to know Him, or about people who truly did know Him but fell away from Him and died spiritually as a consequence after having come to life in Christ?

The NT addresses each of these in different places, and sometimes with similar wording. Confusing them is very problematic with regard to a Christian knowing what Christianity teaches.

Unfortunately, these distinctions have been confused for centuries---thanks to too few disciples and a lot of unqualified, man-made and self-made pastors who taught what they thought was correct but wasn't. 

Most of what most Christians believe Christianity teaches comes from what they heard in church, or were taught in seminary, which may or may not have been correct, depending on what it is. Then, when they get home and read the Bible for themselves, they interpret what they read through the filter and lens of what they were taught.

So, if you can, read the word objectively and carefully and ask the Lord to teach you the correct meaning of what you are reading. It doesn't matter how widely taught or believed a teaching is, or how traditional, or how prominent, revered, or educated the teacher is or was: If the teaching is incorrect, it's incorrect. And embracing one false teaching impairs one's understanding of other truths, because the Scriptures build upon and relate to each other, and do not contradict each other, even when they seem too. In order for a person to make a teaching or belief that doesn't fit fit in with or agree with scriptures that contradict that teaching or belief, he or she has to twist those other scriptures too, in order to make the Scriptures make sense.

The Scriptures are as easy to understand as the Holy Spirit gives us the understanding of them, and as difficult to understand as He does not.

(This doesn't necessarily mean that if a Christian doesn't understand or accept a particular Christian doctrine that he or she doesn't have the Holy Spirit and isn't really a Christian, so please do not misinterpret what I am saying here. A Christian can be confused about a particular doctrine simply because the Lord has not yet given him or her the correct understanding of the Scriptures concerning that subject; and there are various reasons why He may not. So please don't go telling folks that they don't have the Holy Spirit and aren't saved merely because they're confused or deceived about a particular doctrine, when you don't know for certain that that is the case or the reason for their confusion.)

17 minutes ago, Christine said:

Hello @LightShinesInTheDarkness

I am sorry that you thought it necessary to add this corrective.  For 'The Unity of The spirit', is that contained within the verses I quoted from Ephesians 4:1-7. It is not necessary to add or take away from what is said there.  It is a seven-fold unity, each emphasised by the use of the word, ONE.  :-

'I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you
that you walk worthy 
of the calling with which you are called,
with all lowliness and meekness, 
with long-suffering, 
forbearing one another in love,
endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is -
one body and 
one Spirit, even as you are called in 
one hope of your calling,
one Lord, 
one faith, 
one baptism,
one God and Father of all, 
Who is above all and through all and in you all.
But to every one of us is given grace 
according to the measure of the gift of Christ.’

* This makes clear the spirit in which this UNITY is to be 'kept', and just exactly what it comprises.

One body - not many 'bodies' under different names and with differing creeds, 
One Spirit - The Holy Spirit 
One hope - of resurrection life, in Christ Jesus.
One Lord - Christ Jesus our risen and glorified Saviour, Lord and Head.
One faith - the faith of Christ which took Him to the cross to die in our place and secure us for eternity.
One baptism - which is the baptism 'of' and 'by' the Holy Spirit, 
One God and Father of all - the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

 

 

(If you continue reading the posts on this thread, you will see why I added why I added.)

I have only one correction to the seven points, with which I otherwise agree, and that is that the 'faith' mentioned here is the Christian faith, as in the doctrine of Christianity to which Christians adhere (whatever they may have practiced before they were saved): the teachings of the New Testament. This is the same faith Jude mentions in his letter, which Christians are to contend for.

Is Your Joy The Joy Of The Lord?

The joy of the Lord is delight in the knowledge of Him, fellowship with Him, and doing what pleases Him. It is not the carnal joy of having and doing what you want in life and living for worldly pleasure (even if you are doing this in Jesus' name and thanking Him for it all the way). The true and pure joy of the Lord comes from the Spirit of the Lord, not from the world; and He gives it to those who love Him. 

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world---the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions---is not from the Father but is from the world. (1 John 2:15,16)

You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, "He yearns jealously over the spirit that He has made to dwell in us"?

...Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. (James 4:3-5, 8,9)

Be sure that your joy is really in the Lord and from Him. You can find out whether it is or not by keeping His New Testament commandments: If your "joy" dries up on account of them, you'll know that your joy was not from or in the Lord but in what you have and in doing what you want to do, because God gives His joy to the one who is doing what pleases Him, and not to the one who is not.

We want you to know, brothers, about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia, for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part. For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own free will, begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints---and this, not as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then by the will of God to us. (2 Corinthians 8:1-5)

There is a difference between rejoicing over and being thankful for what God gives us to enjoy and loving and living for those things (which you won't do if you keep His commandments and follow His leading in your life in whatever you do.) I'm thankful for everything the Lord provides me and gives me to enjoy, but He is my life and my treasure, and I would much rather be away from the body and at home with Him. (Can you honestly say the same?)

Jesus delighted in the Father and in doing His will. That was His joy. The joy of the one in whom the Spirit of Jesus lives should be the same as Jesus'.

"I desire to do Your will, O my God; Your law is within my heart." (Psalm 40:8)

And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD. And His delight shall be in the fear of the LORD. (Isaiah 11:2,3)

"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full." (John 15:10,11)

Just to restate my position on the matter of salvation simply:

A person is saved (born-again) by repenting of his or her sins, putting his or her faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, and receiving His Spirit. Salvation is by grace (the power of God) through God-given faith. No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him or her, which is by His grace.

We are not saved by doing good works, or by keeping the commands of the New Testament, which no unsaved person can do in truth, and which would not justify him if he tried: There are many unsaved people who follow the teachings of the New Testament and are nice people, doing various good works, and are on their way to hell. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ is none of His, and no one can see the kingdom of God unless he or she has been born again.

Once a person has been spiritually converted (born-again) he or she HAS eternal life; he or she IS saved, and is a Christian. If he or she died the moment after the Holy Spirit came to reside in him or her, he or she would go to heaven.

Having been saved---sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is our Guarantee of eternal life, and who bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God---a Christian has the choice whether to remain in Christ or not, and it is possible for him or her to forfeit or lose his or her salvation by what he or she does or does not do after being born-again. Our eternal security is not unconditional, even though our salvation is the free gift of God. There are no works we can do to receive this gift, but there is work that God requires of us to keep it once He has given it to us. Free to receive does not equal free to keep no matter what you do.

This is what the New Testament teaches, whether people understand it or accept it or not. I'm just stating a fact. If you're confused about it, I suggest re-reading the New Testament again, sincerely and without bias, and with a good conscience toward God and man, and asking the Lord to show you the truth about it, so that you will know it for certain and no longer be confused.

I know that it is humanly impossible to make Scriptural truth plain to someone unless God Himself gives them the understanding. No amount of Scripture will do it; people can interpret the Scriptures in all kinds of ways, as they do. But in the case of doctrine, there is only one correct interpretation; and we would all do well---for the sake of holiness, fruitfulness, and our spiritual safety---to be very sure that we have the complete and correct one, about all things, as God is able to help us to know.

I've said all that I believe is necessary to say about this subject on this thread already. Anyone who cares to do so can read my previous posts on this thread to see my explanation and responses to other posters about this. I have no more to say about it, so please do not respond to this post to debate it with me. I'm not the one you need to talk to about it, but the Lord.

15 minutes ago, brakelite said:

God's commandments are not my personal belief or conviction. They existed a long long time before I appeared on the scene. I am not trying to foist upon anyone a philosophy that I invented and made personal. I like what you have been writing on this thread. You have consistently and with great conviction upheld righteousness and obedience to God's commandments as being essential to being true followers of Christ. Not in order to be justified, but as an integral part of the process of sanctification, without which no-one will see God.  I am merely echoing those same thoughts, but including the 4th commandment for one reason and one reason only. Nowhere in scripture does it say that God has removed His blessing and sacredness from that day. 

 

The above texts are incredibly weak basis for changing an explicit commandment that specifies a certain day, to another day. Only one of the above suggests a meeting of any kind. And that meeting took place on the dark part of the first day of the week, that is Saturday night...at the close of the Sabbath. Paul was leaving 'on the morrow' , or next morning, which would have been Sunday morning. A very shaky foundation there for Sunday keeping. There are only 7 other references to the first day in scripture, apart from at creation. Five of them were directly related to the resurrection, the 6th to when the disciples were cowering in a room because they were afraid they were going to suffer the same fate as Jesus, and the last reference to Paul's request to lay aside an offering for the saints at Jerusalem. Nothing in that last one suggests he was going to pick that offering up on the first day. It was the person's first fruits. After Sabbath the first day of the week was a day of work. The first days pay was to be set aside for others. Do we not do that with our tithe and offerings? 

The Revelation 1:10 text simply says the Lord's day. Nothing in that suggests the first day, second day, or whatever day. Just because the modern church calls Sunday the Lord's day, does not mean that is what John was referring to. So we must go elsewhere to discern which day it was that belonged to the Lord. We find that in Mark 2:28. 

Should we not obey God in a fashion which He commands rather than in a way we prefer or is popular or held by the majority?

If you don't recognize or understand that the Sabbath was/is symbolic, like other prescriptions and rituals of the law of Moses, which Christ fulfilled and in whom the reality of them is found (hence, no need for the symbols for those who are in Him), and that the Sabbath, along with circumcision and the other commandments of the law of Moses (which, as I specified in the original post, is not to be promoted on this thread) pertains only to unsaved Jews, I'm sorry but I can't help you. That's basic, fundamental, indisputable Christian doctrine.

Your preoccupation with the Sabbath in particular out of all the other commandments of the law of Moses makes no sense and smacks of the cult of the false prophetess Ellen G. White. If you keep the Sabbath you should be keeping the whole law of Moses. And if you're not an unsaved Jew, no part of that law ever has or ever will apply to you. 

I've addressed this subject with you enough. If you're an SDA, and you're actually born-again, I am giving you an ultimatum, before I ignore your posts and leave you to the Lord for Him to deal with as He sees fit: Either stop trying to promote Sabbath-keeping or leave this thread, per the guidelines of the thread as outlined in the original post. Heretical SDA doctrine is not welcome here. I've told you before to keep your personal conviction about this to yourself. Sabbatarianism is a heresy whether you recognize it as such or not.

Judaizers are not welcome here, neither are Catholics promoting Catholicism, neither are SDAs promoting their various heretical beliefs and teachings, nor are their estranged Millerite brothers, the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I'm not being any more severe than Jesus would be. He doesn't tolerate heresy---not even just a little bit, like adding circumcision or the keeping of the Sabbath; and neither will I. A little leaven contaminates the whole lump, and I will not have this thread hijacked by heretics.

Do not reply to this post to try to continue a debate about this subject. It will be ignored.

12 minutes ago, Davida said:

That Scripture says NOTHING about  doing works so you don't LOSE your salvation.  Salvation is a gift from God it is not earned by men , neither is SALVATION maintained by men's works, it is by the grace of the Holy Spirit.

This was addressed/explained previously on this thread. You can go back and find the post(s) if you want, but it won't do you any good if God doesn't give you the understanding of it.

8 minutes ago, Davida said:

Though many in the world hold to the wrong view point that "Salvation" must be earned by Works - this is not what the Bible teaches.

https://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-by-works.html

Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint?

Question: "Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint? Why do so many people believe that we can be saved by works?"

Answer: The simple answer is that salvation by works seems right in the eyes of man. One of man’s basic desires is to be in control of his own destiny, and that includes his eternal destiny. Salvation by works appeals to man’s pride and his desire to be in control. Being saved by works appeals to that desire far more than the idea of being saved by faith alone. Also, man has an inherent sense of justice. Even the most ardent atheist believes in some type of justice and has a sense of right and wrong, even if he has no moral basis for making such judgments. Our inherent sense of right and wrong demands that if we are to be saved, our “good works” must outweigh our “bad works.” Therefore, it is natural that when man creates a religion it would involve some type of salvation by works.

Because salvation by works appeals to man’s sinful nature, it forms the basis of almost every religion except for biblical Christianity. Proverbs 14:12 tells us that “there is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.” Salvation by works seems right to men, which is why it is the predominantly held viewpoint. That is exactly why biblical Christianity is so different from all other religions—it is the only religion that teaches salvation is a gift of God and not of works. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Another reason why salvation by works is the predominantly held viewpoint is that natural or unregenerate man does not fully understand the extent of his own sinfulness or of God’s holiness. Man’s heart is “deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9), and God is infinitely holy (Isaiah 6:3). The deceit of our hearts is the very thing that colors our perception of the extent of that deceit and is what prevents us from seeing our true state before a God whose holiness we are also unable to fully comprehend. But the truth remains that our sinfulness and God’s holiness combine to make our best efforts as “filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6; cf. 6:1–5).

The thought that man’s good works could ever balance out his bad works is a totally unbiblical concept. Not only that, but the Bible also teaches that God’s standard is nothing less than 100 percent perfection. If we stumble in keeping just one part of God’s righteous law, we are as guilty as if we had broken all of it (James 2:10). Therefore, there is no way we could ever be saved if salvation truly were dependent on works.

Another reason that salvation by works can creep into denominations that claim to be Christian or say they believe in the Bible is that they misunderstand passages like James 2:24: “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” Taken in the context of the entire passage (James 2:14–26), it becomes evident that James is not saying our works make us righteous before God; instead, he is making it clear that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or “dead” faith and is not saved. James is making a contrast between two different types of faith—truth faith that saves and false faith that is dead.

There are simply too many verses that teach that one is not saved by works for any Christian to believe otherwise. Titus 3:4–5 is one of many such passages: “But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.” Good works do not contribute to salvation, but they will always be characteristic of one who has been born again. Good works are not the cause of salvation; they are the evidence of it.

While salvation by works might be the predominantly held viewpoint, it is not an accurate one biblically. The Bible contains abundant evidence of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Recommended Resource: Faith Alone, The Doctrine of Justification: What the Reformers Taught...and Why It Still Matters by Thomas Schreiner

 

My post had nothing to do with works salvation. You just took a line out of it and used it as an excuse to post a "refutation" of something I have never claimed, because of your own misunderstanding of what I have said about this subject; which I maintain, because it is in fact correct doctrine and Scripturally sound, regardless of your or others' twisting and misunderstanding of it. 

5 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Amen sister, my thoughts also.  And it is written, there is a time for peace and a time for war.

...We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12)

2 hours ago, Davida said:

Lol! If your statement is based up0n the word of God it should be easy for you to show that with Scripture-- but you cannot. Instead you are just making excuses, because the Bible does not say what you are preaching.  You are the one that made the claim so the onus is upon you to back it up with scripture.  I get my understanding from the word of God - not from false teachers.

"Works done/required to stay saved after being saved? Yes. "    <<<< FALSE TEACHING
 

I maintain what I said in my previous response to you, which was true and sufficient.

You also accused me of being an antisemitic Satan-spawn on another thread---or something to that effect---if I recall correctly. Now I am a "false teacher" as well. Fortunately, the Lord knows the truth about me, and I am content to wait to see all things brought to light and set right on the Day of Judgment.

As I have mentioned previously on this thread, I'm not a teacher of doctrine, but I do share, by the will of the Lord and with His permission, what He has taught me for the potential benefit of others. 

From the word of God:

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. (Ephesians 4:31 ESV)

or if you prefer

Let all bitterness and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice... (Ephesians 4:31 KJV)

3 minutes ago, Christine said:

Hello there,

Having come into this thread at such a late date, I decided to go back to the first post, and take up what was intended by the one who began it. I see that this thread is intended to be an encouragement. So I would like to quote a passage of Scripture which is an exhortation to walk worthy:-

‘I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you 
that you walk worthy of the calling with which you are called,
with all lowliness and meekness, 
with long-suffering, 
forbearing one another in love,
endeavoring to keep 
the unity of the Spirit 
in the bond of peace.
There is:- 
one body and 
  one Spirit, even as you are called in 
    one hope of your calling,
      one Lord, 
        one faith, 
          one baptism,
            one God and Father of all, 
Who is above all 
  and through all 
    and in you all.
But to every one of us is given grace 
according to the measure of the gift of Christ.’
(Ephesians 4:1-7 ) 

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

 

Amen. And thank you for your post. 

I feel it's important to add as a reminder to anyone who may be tempted to interpret or use these verses in a way that God did not mean or intend, that the unity of the Spirit is unity in truth, according to the knowledge of God and the truth of His word, and not unity in error, or being unequally yoked with unbelievers, or unity based on something other than the will of the Lord, likeness of mind with Him, and correct doctrine.

Apostasy is not the unity of the Spirit, nor is compromising God's fundamental and indisputable truths and teachings ever acceptable to achieve "unity" with those who reject them. Let us be sure that it is indeed the unity of the Spirit that we are endeavoring to attain and to keep, and not some other unholy kind.

...Until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. (Ephesians 4:13-16)

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother in law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household." (Matthew 10:34-36)

"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels." (Luke 9:26)

58 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Not of works least we boast. If we have to work then it's payment.  But the lord said it was a gift. Nobody works for a gift. So I hope you can understand it will change your view on why you do things. It will make it more easy to do good works. And with a cheerful heart. 

I've explained this already on this thread. My understanding is correct (and it is not proud to state this fact, simply because others do not know that it is correct); I do not have any problem doing good works; and my heart is cheerful about those things about which it should be cheerful, and sober about those things about which it should be sober.

What Seems To Be A Waste Of Time May Actually Be Making The Best Use Of The Time

When we love the Lord and are zealous for Him, it is natural for us to desire to do many and great things for Him---things that we ourselves consider to be important and worthwhile. But the only work that matters to God is His will for us, whatever that may be. And it's not the same for everyone. Anything beyond that faith, however apparently magnificent the work or good its results may be, will amount to wood, hay and stubble on the Day of Judgment. So we can't do any better than what God wants us to do in His time; and we can and should be content with that, knowing that we could do no more to please Him, and that we are doing all that He desires of us.

It's easier to do great works than it is to be faithful to the end of our course. Let me repeat that: It is easier to do great works than it is to be faithful to the end of our course. And a Christian who isn't trained and proven in faithfulness won't be good for any greater work. To give him more to do when he can't even be faithful in what he has, and hasn't been well-trained to follow the lead of his Commanding Officer and not to go his own way, would be a disaster.

Don't think that when God parks you by the brook that the time is wasted. God's will is always exactly what we need and what He wants of us, and it's always timely according to His purpose and plan. Even if we may not seem to be doing much in our own eyes, God may be working in us according to something that is important to Him, which we ourselves do not know about, to prepare us for something He wants us to do in the future, and/or to make us more like His Son. (His priority is to conform us to the image of Christ; the works are secondary.)

We may think we're ready and equipped to do more, but God knows better; and He knows what He wants to do with each of us and what we need in order to do it, as well as the right time and the right way. Jesus Himself spent most of His earthly life as a carpenter before He began His ministry, and not one of those years was a waste of time. He was doing exactly what the Father wanted Him to do, as He always did, and was growing in wisdom and in favor with God and man.

The things we do in our obscure and unobtrusive life and mundane routines may be having an effect somewhere and on someone, which we may never know about until the Day of Judgment---besides the work that God is doing in us as we faithfully do whatever He has given us to do. 

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. (Colossians 3:23, 24 ESV)

...We do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And He who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son... (Romans 8:26-29 ESV)

And this is the confidence that we have toward Him, that if we ask anything according to His will He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of Him. (1 John 5:14,15 ESV)

The prayer of a righteous man has great power as it is working. (James 5:16 ESV)

(Or: The effective fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:16 KJV)