Still Alive

41 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

So, once he's out of the way then De Santis will be the go to guy and since he's more qualified and a much better candidate than Trump is, the liberals are actually doing the repubs a favor.

I'm seriously concerned that if they do stop trump we're going to have a shooting version of the Bundy Ranch standoff. And it probably won't be in just one geographical location. Sure, a lot of Christians support Trump, but a lot of stoics that are NOT Christian also do. They are not as well constrained as we are. When it is this obvious, they may push a lot of those people over the top, and there are a LOT of gun people in that group. And a lot of them are in our military. 

If trump runs and wins, then it's the "city burning" left we have to worry about.

Like I said in my other post. We are living in historic times. 2024 is gonna be one for the history books.

35 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

All the have to do is manufacture something against him, rig the jury, and mission accomplished.

Which of course appears to be what they are doing now with the 4 cases they have going against him.  Eventually Trump will do jail time... most likely before the 2024 election.

So, once he's out of the way then De Santis will be the go to guy and since he's more qualified and a much better candidate than Trump is, the liberals are actually doing the repubs a favor.

I don't think he'll do any jail time. I don't think he'll get tried. As I hinted at in a previous post. The left focuses on the courtroom of public opinion. That's how they got Russel Brand cancelled without any courtroom shenanigans. It's just accusations. Yet here we are.

But that doesn't work with Trump and, on a side note, I don't think it's going to work in the long run with Mr. Brand either. The DC case against trump depends on them convincing a jury that he knew the election was NOT stolen. But that's silly. It was stolen and he knows it and believes it. That case is dead. The only one they have is the documents at his home, and that one is so flaky as to be laughable. It's a parking ticket.

The thing is, "they" no longer control the press. ALL of the popular talking heads on CNN are gone, and when Fox got rid of Carlson it created an uproar. What is comical is that EVERYONE was shocked by it and talked about it nonstop. Yet on the same day Don Lemon was sacked and nobody said anything. The reason? It made total sense. And Carlson is all over youtube, twitter and Rumble, but who is aware of what Lemon is doing? 

We live in interesting times.2024 will be one for the history books, Kinda like September 1, 1939 is a day for the history books. Buckle up. 

I was talking to someone else about this whole thing and I realized it played into something I've said for decades:

If the powers that be had a video recording of everything everyone did their entire life, we'd all be in prison. It appears they are digging for anything they can find to stop this guy, at all costs.

The first example of it I actually saw was when they tried to block Kavanaugh because he tried to "feel up a girl"* at a party in high school, many decades ago. News flash, any guy that DIDN'T try that probably just never got the opportunity. The male teenage mind is a fascinating thing. Dinging him for it when he's in his 50's is just stupid.

*I put that part in quotes because that is exactly how my female manager in her late 50's put it.

4 hours ago, Sparks said:

No doubt the Soros video employed a ventriloquist, or they claim that what he said was not what he really meant. 

I also knew a Nazi Youth who grew up to be a hair cutter, long ago.  He said being a part of that group was like being in the Boy Scouts, but I am sure he failed to mention it had racial undertones. 

Yeah, it's just one of those "bad lip reading" videos. 

On your last sentence, have you seen the movie, Jo Jo Rabbit? It's a compelling comedy drama about a little boy that aspires to be a first class Hitler youth during the war in Berlin, and his mom is hiding a Jewish girl in the house. He also has an invisible friend he talks to all the time that we get to actually see. It's Hitler.

15 hours ago, Sparks said:

The video I just saw was of Soros explaining that at age 14, he pretended to be a Christian with the help of his father and a friend of his father, and went he around taking the possessions of the Hungarian Jews along with the Nazis and had no guilt about it. 

His own lips are moving saying this so I doubt there was much valid debunking.

Maybe they are arguing that "he changed". 

Which causes me to recall a conversation I had about 30 years ago in the hot tub at the Turtle Bay Inn on the north shore of Oahu. It went on for about two hours (the hot tub wasn't all that hot). 

He was an ex-Hitler youth. And WWII history is one of my hobbies so I got to ask him a lot of questions about what it was really like. At the end of that two hours it was pretty clear that he was very sorry that they lost and thinks it would be a better world if they had won. But he had come to grips with reality.

24 minutes ago, Sparks said:

How did they debunk the video interview(s) of him saying so? 

It's time people debunk the debunkers. 

I've discovered that when someone says something has been debunked, they need to offer evidence. Too many times it has not been "debunked". Rather, someone just made a case against it. You might as well say the defenses case debunked the prosecution's case. i.e. it might have, or it might not have.

I normally vote "against" a candidate in presidential elections. There are only two years I voted "for" a candidate. 

1980 - Ronald Reagan

2020 - Donald Trump.

Notice 1984 and 2016 are not on that list.

I'm hoping I get a chance in 2024 to vote "for" a candidate again, but I honestly believe there is surprisingly reasonable chance that we won't get to - vote at all, that is.

I read an article about the hong kong mayor vote once. The jist was that the powers that be don't need to "control" who wins. They only need to control who is nominated. Think Bernie Sanders. I was no fan, but I think the powers that be simply wanted Hillary. And I suspect they wanted Jeb Bush, but Trump sorta nixed that.

49 minutes ago, Sparks said:

You act a if evolution theory is valid, and we Christians are just missing the point because we are not smart enough to understand it's complexity.

In reality, anyone who looks into evolution theory at any depth sees its a dud.  Why not do that, yourself?

When I used to argue this stuff a lot I used to say the problem with evolution is for them, life is like space aliens seeing a '57 chevy rusting away in a field, and saying the rust is what created it. The car is vastly simpler than even a single cell, yet we know it was created because we know the creator (man). It would be preposterous to say the tubes in the radio evolved from rust. Of course, if you don't know or believe in the creator, it's all you got.

2 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I am not sure. People just go with the background hum.  Its a type of hypnosis being broadcast from all angles, to the point that people accept evolution theory without really ever looking into it, or questioning it.  They do what the crowd does, and the crowd is usually not thinking.

With that I completely agree. Well said.

BTW, that's why I'm not a fan of pure democracy, AKA mobocracy.

2 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I feel sad about people believing that evolution theory is true without evidence.  The current understanding evolution theory is a misunderstanding.  Smart people who are blinded.

Are they smart, or are they just educated? Then again, everyone has biases and even smart people can let those biases get the best of them.

Of education, knowledge and wisdom, the least is education and the greatest is wisdom...

4 minutes ago, Scott Free said:

Mankind is always so proud of their current understanding. For example, our electronics is a very primitive use of electromagnetism. If we understood it's true nature we would be very dangerous. It is good they have only toys to play with.

It always cracks me up when someone defends their position with phrases like "we know so much more in modern times".

Every time has been "modern times" - at the time.

12 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The Catholic Church does not teach this error.   It doesn't teach creationism or polygenism or any other such man-made doctrines.

But if you happen to believe such things, it's not a salvation issue.

 

That's good to know! I'm going to ask them about it when they come to visit us here in Kentucky.

I confess that though I had a hard enough time with the "ever virgin" Mary teaching, this one was way over the top for me.

4 minutes ago, teddyv said:

If you are basing that opinion only on your daughter and husband's words, that's a pretty small sample size.

We've been getting more acquainted with RCC since wife now works for the local Catholic school as an administrator. In discussion with the local priest and her superintendent there has been no such language like "true" Christians. The RCC view Protestants as more like wayward Catholics. But they seem very practical and are very willing.to work together on common goals.

I also appreciate the academic and intellectual rigour of the Catholic Church.

I used the phrase, "true Christians" only because I'm in "conversational mode". If I were writing an article about it, I'd be a lot more careful in my choice of words. 

And yes, my daughter and her husband are almost "pre-vatican II". She always wears head covering in church and attends mass 7 times a week. I am not "anti-catholic" but just like baptist, it's not for me. But I think it's exactly what she needs - something highly structured. She's a bit autistic and this gives her something to sink her teeth into. Frankly, her new husband is the same way. They say opposites attract, but in this case they are two sides of the same coin. 

13 minutes ago, Scott Free said:

I feel ya. Jesus seemed to constantly expose the disciples dogmatic views.

"And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." Luke 9:54-55

 

 

This is "coincidental". I'm reading through Luke this morning and that very chapter was part of it. And those very verses gave me pause. I sort of felt like Jesus was telling them to "lighten up and don't be so danged judgmental". 😉

15 hours ago, Sparks said:

Catholics seem to believe that you cannot be saved without their church, that your works determines salvation, that you wait until after your death to see if God saved you rather than accepting the Gift during your lifetime, and more.  I cannot believe what they believe.

Oddly, my "super catholic" daughter, once thought it was a cult, and I thought she was too hard on them. But as I discuss with her and her husband what they believe, I realize I've been convinced now that it is a cult - if only because they consider Catholics to be the only "true" Christians. Kinda like Mormonism. 

1 minute ago, Sparks said:

Yes, I don't agree with the Catholic message, at all.  Nice people, but I disagree with their Pope and their beliefs.

My daughter and her new husband are now hard core Catholics. I mean "pre-vatican II". He used to be Greek Orthodox and she used to think the Catholic church was a cult.

Anyway, I've discussed some of their odd beliefs with them, like the eucharist and Mary being ever virgin. But when I was visiting them in Seattle a month ago I was floored by another belief they have: The earth is the "literal" center of the universe. i.e. everything PHYSICALLY spins around the Earth, and the earth is solid, stable, and doesn't move. 

It's like talking with flat earthers and moon landing deniers. I honestly thought they were joking at first.

9 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Saved = Salvation

Salvation is about being forgiven your sins, and NOT being judged at the Great White Throne (a place for the lost, hell and a serious lack of fire insurance). 

What happens in our lives after being saved determines a lot for us.  Our judgement at the Bema Seat (we still go before our Lord to account for our lives, but not for punishment), and what we do for Christ affects our after life.  If someone does nothing at all once they are saved, they are still saved.  They won't face hell or personally pay for sin-debts that we would have paid had our Lord not paid them for us.

Personally, I like the idea of living outside the city.  I want a small corner of heaven to myself, without the hustle and bustle of a city.  

What you bring up is something that is very hard for people to discuss - that different people actually have different rewards, depending on how "good" they have been in this life. I agree with you regarding the Bema seat vs great white throne. Interestingly, I was a Christian for at least 10 years before I even realized there were two different "judgements". It was simply absent from any teaching I received and had to discover it for myself.

The whole thing brings up the belief that there are two issues regarding the afterlife:

1. Salvation - which is all about his sacrifice.

2. Where you fall in the "pecking order" in the afterlife, which you CAN control by your actions in this life. And honestly, even wording it that way makes it hard to accept. That is, the idea that your condition after death really is partly controlled by you in this life. It makes "being good" almost a selfish act. Like working overtime to be able to afford that boat.

BTW, you may have noticed by my tagline that I'm not an advocate of ECT, but fall in the CI camp... I think that if someone accepts Jesus free gift out of fear of hell they are doing it wrong. It completely misses the point. I think the fallacy of it is summed up here, and why it can be difficult to convert non believers with such a belief:

15 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Yes, there a lot of apostate churches out there that never teach about salvation or how to accept the Gift.  Satan is all about distorting the truth, in this case withholding it, so that some people die never knowing it.

I will post the way, not because you need to know, but for someone who might be reading this, and wondering how to do so:

(ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

This brings up one of the "questions" I ask. It's about the first and last Adam, and what the word, "saved" really means. I sometimes wonder, based on how the bible covers the topic, if all men really are "saved from death", but the "elect" (those who fall under the scripture above), will be Jesus" government or "inner circle". 

This thought first hit me when reading this in Revelation 21 and, specifically, verses 24-27. It appears that "man" will occupy the whole planet, but only some will be allowed to enter the city. If all men on earth at that time are allowed to enter the city, the verse doesn't make a lot of sense. At least, to me so far...

41 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Yes, it's almost as if churches are mostly for the unsaved, to guide them.  We, the saved, like a place to worship and get support from one another and learn, but I think the unsaved is what a church should be trying to attract. 

This is why I have "mixed" feelings about "seeker" churches. I can see both good and bad aspects to them. As long as they don't "sell their soul to the devil" to increase numbers, I fall into the "judge not, lest..." category.

14 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Oh, and you might find that the teacher is the one who does not like the questions.

Naw. He LOVES them. He's told me from day one that he really loves the way I think about this stuff in a way most of the folks in the class have never even entertained. He also admits that he doesn't always agree with some of my conclusions. He and I have a get together every week, now. We're both retired. When my heart failed, he drove me all the way to Lexington to their emergency ward from our small town's emergency ward. 90 minute drive - and in a driving Kentucky rain at midnight. This guy is a true friend. 

11 minutes ago, Sparks said:

Yes, it's almost as if churches are mostly for the unsaved, to guide them.  We, the saved, like a place to worship and get support from one another, but I think the unsaved is what a church should be trying to attract. 

My best friend, who grew up in this town (I've only lived here for 12 years, and came here from Seattle), gave me some interesting requested feedback last week. He is the primary teacher of our Sunday school class and I've even taught a few times. When I first started going to our Sunday school class (average age is around 60), my wife and I were met with welcome arms. Several people flattered me with comments on my bible knowledge and perspective. But it's been about five years and the honeymoon is over.

My friend said people make negative comments to him about things I say in class. He loves it and defends me profusely, and thinks they are terribly wrong and missing the point of why my comments are important. Their main gripe is that they don't like the questions I'm asking. And sometimes they don't like the conclusions to which I arrive. They don't argue with me. It's just that I am goring quite a few "bible belt" oxen. I'll throw out things like, does the bible support the idea that there are no other inhabited planets in the universe?; does the bible have room for the belief that Neanderthals and dinosaurs are quite ancient? Is hell, as many in the bible belt perceive it, real, or is it a made up English word for the dump outside of Jerusalem that Jesus used as a metaphor?

And, of course, my tag line.

But I was preparing several lessons discussing these and other similar topics, but decided to embrace the old phrase, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". That is, these folks may not really need this sort of teaching, and simple lessons on the "importance of prayer" for the umpteenth time is really what they need - or, more likely, want. 

I am thinking of using my curriculum with the 20-29 age group. 

Getting open heart surgery at the end of my 69th year about six months ago has altered a lot of my viewpoints on how "combative" I need to be, how tolerant, how forgiving, etc. It seems to have ramped up my empathy several notches, but drastically shortened my tolerance of bullchit. i.e. if one can not defend their position, it's time to re-evaluate it.

BTW, it's a great Sunday school class. They basically fed my wife and I for a couple of weeks with some spectacular meals delivered to our home. It really mattered.

2 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I think the Born Again and Saved who are indwelled by the Holy Spirit will know the truth about the nature of God when they hear it, and know when what is said, is false.  It's a matter of spiritual discernment. 

There are a lot of people in Christian churches who are not saved, and who are trying to decide with whom they will place their faith. 

You touch on something I've said for quite a while: Probably 80% of the people you see in church every week are not "saved". And I'm pretty sure the pastors/preachers believe this. It may be why some messages I've heard are as if the pastor is speaking to non-believers. It's amazing how many solid churchgoers, when asked why they believe they are saved, will say, "I try to be a good person", or something like that. 

3 minutes ago, Sparks said:

If you don't understand that the ways of God are discerned spiritually (as stated by scripture earlier), I don't know what to say.  This precludes people who have not accepted the Gift of Salvation from really understanding the nature of God, though anyone can accept the Gift by faith and then understand.   

Look what the Bible says about the saved:

1 John 2:27  (NLT) But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

Why does the Bible say this?

As for evolution theory, it cannot even make it's own case. 

Because of some of my current pursuits, That 1 John scripture hit me hard, as if I'd never read it. I need to read the whole chapter and letter in my ESV version. The implications of the NLT version is that sunday school is unnecessary, as are sermons - at least for believers who have received the Holy Spirit (which is a sort of redundant statement).

3 hours ago, Scott Free said:

Wisdom is recognizing the limits of ones own knowledge. It is not about how much is known, but about perceiving the extent of what is not known.

A couple of things. First is my personal belief: Of education, knowledge and wisdom, the least is education and the greatest is wisdom.

Second, I was trying to have a discussion about ECT vs CI with a gentleman at a church I tried to attend when we moved to KY. Sadly, the guy was beyond dogmatic in his position and, finally, with red face and neck veins bulging, he raised is large KJV up over his head and shouted, "I believe what the Word of God says." To which I replied, "So do I. Where we differ is our interpretations." I left that church because of the strong dogmatism on every issue and I did not want to be a "contentious spirit". I prefer to follow what Jesus and the disciples did: Share the message, and leave it to the hearers to embrace it or reject it.

40 minutes ago, Scott Free said:

The unsaved will also see past our outdated erudition's. The majority of Christians do not take the creation stories seriously. To put it up as a barrier demanding allegiance to a different ideology from the Gospel before entering halls of faith in Jesus seem pretty egregious.

This gets outside the scope of this thread, but that post touched a nerve in me, so let me be brief: I experienced exactly what you are talking about when I moved from Seattle (very unchurched) to the bible belt (Kentucky). In Seattle, if you are a Christian and go to church, you are outside the popular culture and will actually experience grief over it. In the bible belt, well, let me put it this way. When I started at my first job here (IT department), we had a pizza lunch and the manager prayed over the meal before we dug in. Not only would that have been unheard of in Seattle, but he'd almost certainly have been fired for it. At the very least written up and reprimanded.

But the guy I bought my house from was a young pastor and he had just started his first job as pastor of a small church. He told me one day that there were elderly member that had been going there weekly for their entire life - and didn't know the difference between the old and new testaments. He was working hard to educate the congregation on the whole bible and how it all ties in. They fired him. He was slaughtering sacred cows weekly. They believed what they believed and that settled it.