jeremiah1five

I understand God's love is taught as part of the Law and that once understood according to Scripture then we will come to practice God's love according to Scripture and give Holy love to holy people who are in covenant with God. God's love is to be shared and given to only those in covenant with God for to teach anything other than what is taught in Scripture is to practice adultery and disloyalty to God. Christ is betrothed to His Bride and like any marriage covenant anyone in covenant with God that shares or gives God's Holy love to unsaved, unholy people commit adultery against God and against brethren. 15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15–16. God teaches His people in the Law to love God and their brethren. Holy love for holy people. That's basically what God has commanded His Bride to do for if we give love to anyone not in marriage covenant with God then we commit adultery against God and brethren.

True, Biblical Christianity is moored to Hebrew roots, history, culture, religion, and covenants. "Mainstream Christianity" that is not moored to the Hebrew people going back to Eber, but mostly to the Abrahamic Covenant where the beginnings of Christianity of the Bible is tied, "good measure[d], pressed down, and shaken together, and running over. It begins with Abraham and Sarah. God promised Abraham an heir to an old man and a barren woman that would come from his loins and further through his offspring whom God revealed would be as numerous as the stars in heaven and the [grains of] sand of the sea. Later, after over 430 years and multiplication of births to his offspring it continued with and through the Mosaic Covenant. It is here that a race became a nation with Laws for the people to obey towards living daily life under the rule and reign of God. Every aspect of Hebrew living as a nation is to be guided by the Law of Moses and as time went on still, by the prophets God would send to His people for various reasons, but mostly to warn of impending judgment for sins and national sins. One of those prophets was Jeremiah. He prophesied of a New Covenant in which all sin past, present, and future would be forgiven and never again be remembered. This forgiveness was accomplished by God's own Son, Jesus Christ, whose death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection from the dead/grave accomplished an eternal forgiveness in which the Hebrew children of Israel would never again come under God's judgment. God has accepted this people, and they have all received eternal life. This New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ. As I said, true, Biblical Christianity is Hebrew, and it is described throughout the Hebrew Scripture (Genesis to Malachi.) The men (and women) who became born-again through the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel), especially, Saul who was a rabbi and Pharisee wrote letters to the Jews and Jewish Christians who came to a saving knowledge of their Messiah, Jesus Christ, searched the Hebrew Scripture for answers to the things taking place among the Jews in Jerusalem, Israel proper, and throughout the Gentile world where millions of Jews grew up "Gentile" heavily influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized) in these places (Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, Philippi, etc.), to explain the New Covenant era Israel found herself in. There is no "mixture of Judaism and Christianity" for they are both one and the same. And it is moored to the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. I was born again in 1977. My "birth Church" pastor was trained and educated through the Assemblies of God, and I received what later was to be identified as an Arminian-Calvin hybrid teaching and preaching. This continued through the 80s. In the 90s and after a couple of years God led me to my "adopted church" where my education was more teaching than preaching and my growth was of deeper study. In the 2000s my understanding became more towards the Doctrines of Grace, and I was on my own and I accessed great theological books of modern-day teachers/preachers along with the classics. I was tilting towards Reformed theology. From 2010s onward I began to read things in Scripture that challenged what I had been taught and what I read in "Gentile" theology books that required a decision. I began to see from Scripture things that reformed my thinking even further. But it was not anything to do with the Reformation. Several questions troubled me about what I was reading in Scripture and what I was reading in theology books and a great many questions about what I believed had to be answered. One question was if God saved through covenant and the Hebrew people had covenant with God which culminated with their salvation, then where was the covenant between the God of Abraham and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None was made with God in Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. Instead, I found everything having to do with redemption and salvation being possessed by the Hebrew people through covenant. Another thing I found in Scripture that the prophet Joel prophesied God would promise His Spirit to Israel and found no such like promise made to non-Hebrew Gentiles. Holding to exegetical study required me take the Scripture as written and not add to the Bible. I also learned about type and shadow and that if something is not prophesied or promised in the Old Testament as precedence, then there can be no New Testament reality. Another thing that needed closure was that Israel's Messiah was promised to Israel, to Israel He came, and for Israel He died. Jesus Christ is quoted in Matthew that He came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. And in fulfilling the Law, especially the Ceremonial Law it is recorded in Scripture the ministry God gave to the high priest, first Moses and Aaron, and later to Jesus Christ as High Priest who died specifically to and for the children of Israel because if He came to fulfill the Law, then as High Priest the Law required this person sacrifice for the children of Israel. I find nowhere in Scripture the high priest offers sacrifices for non-Hebrew Gentiles. I find no non-Hebrew Gentiles named or mentioned as being included in any of the three Hebrew covenants (Abraham, Mosaic, and New.) Since we have presumed "Gentiles" being born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise - even myself - the only resolution is that the Abraham Covenant was made between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's Hebrew seed, and that any presumed "Gentile" would by necessity must have a Hebrew parent somewhere in a person's ancestry because no matter the dilution of blood or DNA, if the person is truly saved they would have to have a Hebrew parent in their ancestry because the seed of Abraham are heirs according to the promise. Given that in Israel's history God scattered and exile this people four times: Assyrian conquest and Exile, Babylonian conquest and Exile, Roman conquest, and deportation out of the Promise Land, and by Nazi Germany of the 1930s and 40s. I had asked the question last year to poll proclaimed Christ followers, and no one could trace their descendants beyond the 1500s. So, although I cannot prove my assertions, neither can they be dis-proved. It was a reasonable conclusion. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me.

God's righteousness or holiness is not created. It is God Himself just as "God is love" so, too, God is righteousness or God is Holy/holiness. Neither are created so there is something else in view here and that is the new man which is created in [God's] righteousness and holiness and it is these attributes of God that are imputed, not created. And the new man (body, soul, and human spirit) is the new man as opposed to the old man which is body and soul - no human spirit. And the word "created" transliterated into Hebrew is "bara" which means something being "created" out of nothing. "Saving faith" is a construct which doesn't hold any relation to salvation since God saves merely on His promise to save, and that His covenant people. Theologians have made up this term but one does not need faith to be saved as there is no requirement of faith in any of the three Hebrew covenants. God makes promise to Abraham and his seed and then keeps every promise He's made to Abraham and his seed. The Abraham Covenant is found in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. The Mosaic Covenant doesn't require faith but it does require obedience for God says so. And the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34 doesn't mention faith. I don't ignore it, I understand it. Will oxygen be required in eternity? God create Adam and the woman sinful (missing the mark.) The word is sin. And God created everything that exists in creation - even evil. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7. The LORD does all those things and everything in existence as part of His creation. That's a leap. "Good" only means "good enough" or "to specification." In other words after creating God says it is "good" or "to specification" to what He desired it be after He's created [the thing.] We say the same thing for a job well done. "How did the chair you built turn out?" "Good. Exactly how I wanted it." God is Savior. And here is where they sinned. They added to God's Word and were proven liars: 6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Prov. 30:6. They added to God's Word when they added "neither shall ye touch it." Sin comes from sinners just as holiness comes from holy. The contrast between the first and second/last Adam is clear. Adam was created siful and sinned twice. First, by adding to God's Word and again in eating the forbidden tree/fruit. Sin comes from sinner: 13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:12–13. Sin comes from sinner. Sin does not come from holy. The last Adam proved this. Jesus Christ was Holy and did no sin. At all. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (creation) of the world. Rev. 13:7–8. Before God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain in the heavenly Tabernacle. This was a sacrifice which allowed a Righteous God to create an unrighteous being: man. No, they sinned because they were created sinners. Sin does not come from holy. Yes, the text is clear enough. Adam and the woman were created sinful which is why they sinned. They added to God's Word and then they ate from the forbidden tree/fruit. Lying is a sin according to God. 6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Prov. 30:6. They added to God's word when they said, "neither shall ye touch it." And so, she was excused? Childbearing, among other things, was the punishment for their sins. I don't make excuses for sin. So, if eating the Tree of Life would make them live forever (eternal) then this means they were not eternal in their creation which means they "fell short of the glory of God." Saul calls that "sin" (Romans.) Yeah, that is the textbook answer and reasoning, and I used to believe that lie. The bottom line is that neither Adam and the woman in their creation cannot stand blameless before a Holy God as Christ could and did. In order to stand before a Holy God blameless they would have to possess ALL the Deific Attributes and Nature of God or else they would "fall short of [that] glory." The word for that is "sin." Only Christ can stand before a Holy God blameless. If a born-again person's sins are all paid for on the cross why do men still die? Death is the punishment for sin is it not? Faith is a gift and no one who is alive physically and yet dead before God in trespasses and sin do not have faith to speak of. Faith is a gift given. Besides this dead men do not have faith. The faith that saves was 'exercised' by Christ. It is HIS FAITH God honored and by which anyone is saved. Salvation - according to Scripture - is between God, Abraham and Abraham's seed, a people to be known as the children of Israel. As far as my reading of the Hebrew Scripture is concerned, I find no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles. None. And God has covenant with the Hebrew seed of Abraham. That's all. The jailer would have to be the seed of Abraham for this would make him an heir of the promises. Otherwise, if the jailer was a non-Hebrew Gentiles, then Scripture (Hebrew Scripture) would be broken and Jesus said this "cannot be done." Saul as rabbi and Pharisee is addressing Jews. They are already in covenant from Abraham going forward and salvation is a by-product of covenant. The Mosaic Covenant commanded a sin sacrifice and the Bible says the blood of the covenant was sprinkled upon the waiting people as per covenant. The high priest did not leave Israel, go to the Gentiles and offer sacrifices for their sin, did he? No, and neither did Christ as High Priest break Scripture and do the same for non-Hebrew Gentiles. So, Peter, Saul, James - none of the biblical Christians were "Christ-like" in their Christianity? Saul was writing to Jews as was James, Peter, John, Jude, etc. The whole of Scripture from Genesis to Malachi records God's dealing with His covenant people the Hebrews through Abraham. Timothy would have to be a Hebrew or a mixed heritage Hebrew for he would still be the seed of Abraham or else Scripture is broken. I don't hold to beliefs that are not found in Scripture. Saul wrote to Jews and Jewish Christians at Corinth. None of the Hebrew Scripture from Genesis to Malachi, or from Matthew to Revelation are written to non-Hebrew Gentiles. John 11. Dead men do not have faith. Thus, it was Jesus' faith God honored by which anyone is saved. Faith is a gift, is it not? And it is also given AFTER one is born-again, but it is Jesus' faith that God honored by which His covenant people are saved. This is bible.

Of course I do. I take what is written in Scripture for my understanding in and under the anointing. Now, about the New Covenant here is the passage describing Jeremiah's prophecy: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, fI will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: For they shall all know me, From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: For I will forgive their iniquity, And I will remember their sin no more. Jeremiah 31:31–34. And honest reading shows that faith is not mentioned nor a requirement. Instead, the New Covenant shows only what God is going to do to save His people and there is no requirement for faith. Saul says that men are dead in trespasses and sins. Lazarus was dead in trespasses and sins and laid in the grave unable to "have faith" in anything to change his condition. In fact, Lazarus remained in the grave dead three, then four days until Jesus even got up to go to him and his family. It wasn't faith that saved Lazarus from this time in the grave UNTIL Jesus commanded "Lazarus, [to] Come Forth!" This is a powerful lesson on being raised from the dead being killed by trespasses and sin. Faith played no part in Lazarus' resurrection. The Abraham Covenant is found in Genesis 12, 15, and 17, and an honest reading of the pertinent passages reveals no faith is required in this covenant. And it should be said that Abraham was an obedient believer who had relationship with God before God stepped out and gave Abraham promises as we find in these chapters in Genesis. And the faith that Saul writes about that he had had nothing to do with the covenant promises in chapters 12, 15, and 17. The only requirement was to "walk perfect before God" and "circumcision. The faith Saul is referencing surrounds Abraham going up the mount to sacrifice Isaac. And faith of Abraham in this event is found in Genesis 22:5 AFTER the closing of the Abrahamic Covenant. Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. Gen. 22:5. If Abraham was successful is sacrificing Isaac Abraham's faith is wrapped up knowing that Isaac is a promised birth and the covenant is to pass to him so Abe's faith which he exercised is holding God to "provide" and that Isaac will be his rightful heir and would have to raise Isaac from death to bring that about. But a reading of the Abraham Covenant found in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 does not mention faith nor is faith a requirement.

I take my understanding of a non-existent human spirit from Ephesians 4:24 in which the word "created" [in righteousness and holiness] is a Greek word that corresponds to the Hebrew word "bara" in Genesis 1 which word is used of God creating 'something out of nothing' such as creating the universe out of nothing. The other word in Genesis 1 is the word used to created something out of something (man from the dust.) The bible does. What is in physical existence can originally be found in spiritual reality (such as heavenly Tabernacle, et.al.) This is the whole point of atonement. 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17. Until atonement was realized in time and the Spirit can now be IN [you] it was before atonement merely "with" [you.] God makes no requirement of faith in any of the three Hebrew covenants. Abraham Covenant: requirement is circumcision. Mosaic Covenant: requirement is obedience. New Covenant: no requirements at all. Fire is particular to physical reality. It requires combustible material, an accelerant, and oxygen. There is no oxygen in eternity as God does not 'breathe' neither will man. God Himself is everything life. We will not need oxygen to live. I don't think I said that. What ceases to exist is the connection to God which the opposite is separation - eternal separation, which "the sting of death is [unatoned sin.] And if it stings to be separated from God I think in "time" it may "feel" like a fire or flame. I have been stung by a bee and initially it is a sting but soon as the area acclimates it begins to feel like being burned (fire/flame.) Between the two is the corrupt, sinful, unatoned body raised in the same condition or is [both] "resurrected" the same? But it can't be. For the believer their bodies are 'changed from corruption to incorruption.' Does it say the same for the unatoned? As Isaiah says and I agree and understand: 1. There is only One God. 2. There is None like Him. 3. He gives His glory to No One. And this means that man was created fallen short of the glory that isGod. Man wasn't created with any of the Nature or Deific Attributes of God. This alone proves that man was not possessing any of the glories of God (Eternalness, Holiness, Sinlessness, etc.) and even one "lack" in man condemns him (in creation) to being created "missing the mark" (sinful) of the glory of God. One Person stand before a Holy God blameless and that is a Holy Son. Besides this the word "good" does not mean "holy" or "righteous" or "sinless." It merely means "good [enough] or "to specification." It's the same as when we complete a job well done or resulting in "good", to specification. This word in Genesis has no moral connotations or meaning. God created and His creation was exactly the way He desired to create. It was to His specifications. They were created sinner which is why they sinned. They were not "holy" or "sinless" for if created with an Attribute or Nature of God they would NOT have sinned but would have been as the Son - sinless. 13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13. In other words - sin comes from sinner. Besides this their disobedience and the eating of the Tree was not their first sin so upon this fact there is and was no "Fall." Their (Adam and Eve) first sin was adding to God's Word when they added "neither shall ye touch it." Lying is a sin is it not? 6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6. They lied and were 'reproved.' According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17 the Word of God "reproves" the liar. God never said "neither shall ye touch it" and it doesn't matter "without Law there is no sin." It was their ability to sin without a command against lying that proved their sinfulness. And it appears that to live forever one only have eaten from the Tree of Life (which is metaphor) for the Word who was with God and was God 'in the beginning.' If Adam and the woman possessed ANY of God's Deific Attributes (sinlessness, holiness, etc.) they would have by necessity MUST possess ALL Deific Attributes of God or they would have fallen short. The word for that is "sin." So, no, being created "good" has no reference to any moral equivalency. It merely meant "good [enough] or "to specification." I don't think I said I believe in "annihilationism." The unatoned will exist. They will exist separated from God. How that will play out in practical manner I could not say except that we as believers will glorify God for their judgment by God - even if we see our mother or child in that group of the unatoned. We will glorify God against them. I agree, except based upon Eph. 4:24 what God creates "anew" is created "out of nothing" and the human spirit cannot exist and then God creates a new human spirit when they are born again and now "you" have two spirits - one existing but dead, the other created "out of nothing." No one "puts their trust in Christ." Salvation is of the LORD and like Lazarus dead men do not have faith for faith is a gift given at salvation. God is the one who saves without any input from man. God is merely following the "book of life of the lamb" which was "made" (with names of the predestined saved) before God created heaven, earth, and man. Then, God went about creating. Everyone God ordained to salvation will at the appointed time be saved without fail. God created man sinful, or "missing the mark" of the glory of God which is why they sinned because sin cannot and does not come from holy. The last Adam proved that. He was Holy, He was Sinless, and He did no sin. Man was sinful and this is why he sinned. Even adding to God's word "neither shall ye touch it" is sin for he was reproved and found a liar and liars do not the kingdom of God living in them. God saves through covenant. Nothing else. He saved merely on His promise to save. That's it. He promised and then went about keeping His promise and none of the three Hebrew Covenants have faith as a requirement and the reason for that is dead men - like Lazarus - do not have faith. They are dead in trespasses and sin. Lazarus could not exert any faith to be resurrected. Until Jesus said, "Come Forth" he would stay dead. God is following the lamb's book of life without any input from man for dead men have no faith for faith is a gift of God. It comes with salvation and the only people that are inheritors of the promise are the seed of Abraham.

That would make the person trichotomous still. Remaining like a hangnail. I would think it cease to exist, which in Eph. 4:24 it (human spirit) is created anew by God. Born-"AGAIN" of the Holy Spirit (spiritual) seems to me to be what in the original was a physical birth similarly now a spiritual birth, is it not? Physical birth consists of egg and sperm and same with spiritual birth - egg and sperm? (body/physical/egg=Jesus, and spirit/spirit/sperm=Spirit?) is confusing. I would prefer that in physical birth there is no human spirit passed in the genes of Adam and the woman for in death it ceases to exist? Which when one is born-again God creates a new human spirit (out of nothing-"bara") - Eph. 4:24? not "from something." I hold faith is not a requirement of the person since "dead men have no faith" (Eph. 2:1) and faith is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8-9.) I think the "torment" is not an act performed by one upon another, but just the reality of separation from God in which "torment" is the symptom of separation. "Hell" would be the grave so, yes, God HAS already destroyed body and soul in hell/grave. It is the result of sin and ordained by default by virtue of creation, which I hold that man (and woman) were created sinful or as the word is defined by Strong as "missing the mark" (think archery). What is that "mark" missed by default in their creation? The glory of God, or the glory that is God. Again, I hold that any "torment" is not inflicted by one upon another, rather, that "torment" is what the soul experiences by virtue of being separate from God since Lazarus was "[in] comforted" and the rich man in "torment" by virtue of immediate separation from God in physical death. Again, that would mean the existence of a "dead" spirit remaining like a hangnail or and instead of God creating anew (out of nothing) to be a human spirit created anew (from something) - the remaining hangnail/dead human spirit. Yes.

The kingdom of God is not a place. It is a Person. God. I say this because there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE. Having said that, it is impossible for God to copy, share, reduplicate, give His glory (Eternalness) to a place or location. Only God is Eternal. And He gives His glory to no one. It is impossible for God to give His Nature to a location.

Our "soul" is that which may come from God and in this is His familiarity or foreknowledge of ourselves. But then how does this apply to someone whom "[He] never knew." Curious.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt. 10:28. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:23. There are no "three-part" persons in "hell." There is a distinction being expressed in these two passages. If Jesus is merely describing the body and soul in the grave ("hell") after the spirit/breath returns to God, or the "two-part" person would be eternally separated from God for again this passage also enlightens us: 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb. 4:12. It is the Word of God rightly divided in me that allows me to discern soul, spirit, and body (joints and marrow) of anyone in the exercise of my spiritual gifts. Discerning the body (joints and marrow) if my gift is of healing the body, or of healing of soul and the "heart" of man. I hear it being said that no man can 'discern' another person's "heart" but if the Word of God is planted in my "heart" and it dwells within me richly, the gifts of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God gives me the insight in accordance with God's will for a particular purpose as my candle is the illumination that gives light to all that are in the house (or Church.)

Man was created sinful, or as the word is defined by Strong, "missing the mark." What is that "mark"? The glory of God, or the glory that is God. Isaiah states unequivocally that there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE. Understanding and accepting this is base to understanding the creation of man. God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself. He cannot copy or duplicate any aspect of His glorious, sinless, holy nature and attributes. If God created man sinless or holy or righteous then man would need to be created with ALL the nature or Deific attributes of God else, he would fall short of God's eternal magnificent glory. There is only ONE Who can stand before a Holy God blameless and that is a Holy Son. Thus, we have the reason why man sinned. It is because he was created sinful, or "missing the mark." And I do not agree that there was a "Fall" with the eating of the forbidden tree. It was, after all, a Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil. God merely used this natural tree to give man (and the woman) the KNOWLEDGE of their sinfulness. The prophet says: 13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Samuel 24:13. Or, sin comes from sinner. And even before these two ate from the forbidden tree they were already sinners as their adding to God's Word dictates: 6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6. They added to God's word: "neither shall ye touch it" clearly proves these two as liars by adding to God's word that according to the text was not part of the original command. And no liar has eternal life. Even if these two did not disobey God they would have eventually died due to their temporality in that they were not eternal, which is the Nature of God, and again, if one possesses any one attribute or nature of God he/she would by necessity must possess ALL the Nature or Deific Attributes of God. As saith the ancients, sin comes from sinner and wickedness cometh from the wicked. There is only ONE God. And because they were sinful ("missing the mark"), it would not be necessary to bar the way to the tree of life. 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Gen. 3:22. Besides this, Saul gives us more insight to the make-up of man: 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:42–49. Man does not bear the image of God, the Son does. Man is natural and of the earth, earthy, as opposed to the Lord from heaven. There is no better image of a Father than a Son. 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col. 1:15. I believe that when God said, "let us make man in our own image" that God ordained the new man in the loins of the man would would be born into the world at the appointed time, and born-again at the appointed time, with the Old Testament saints "kept" until the atonement could be made that would bring a co-habitation between God and His elect people in time. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal. 3:23. And so, we come to atonement. And in the new birth we begin our conformity to the image of Christ who is the image of the invisible God. It is the "new man" that is made in the image of Christ, true righteousness, true holiness, which is also our justification, our being declared, "Not Guilty!" by God. 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph. 4:24. There was no "Fall" of man. There was no change in the composition of man when he failed God and did that which was natural to him and that is sin which came from a sinner. Man - Adam - was created body, soul, and human spirit, which in man is necessary in order to process spiritual phenomenon, so that we may pray and worship God with a human spirit for God Himself is Spirit. Having a created-anew human spirit allows us to process and exercise our spiritual gifts, to discern God's Presence, to pray and worship God with a human spirit as we are now able to worship God in/with [human] spirit and in truth. The unconverted man (or woman) is born body and soul and in this dichotomy dies and are cast into "hell" as opposed to the new man who is in new birth restored to a trichotomy of God's own expressed nature of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Hello Fran C. and thank you for that. Scripture says man died "in the day" he ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. He couldn't have taken a 1000-year "day" as earlier propositioned for what was it and where is it stated that earth went through a slowing down of its rotation in Scripture? I find no evidence. That position of thought fails also in that for earth to take 1000 years to rotate would have left one side scorched and the other frozen in a one-thousand-year ice age. Another thing about the creation of man is that God created him trichotomy (body, soul, and human spirit - which I explain next) and that one part of his trichotomy died "in the 24-hour day" he ate from the forbidden tree. There was no poison in the tree. It was just a regular tree in the Garden that God used for this event. And take note it was a tree that God used to give him the KNOWLEDGE of (good) and evil, it didn't change him or make him evil. He was already that but since there was no restriction for any of his (and her) behaviors they only knew "good." It wasn't "a test" either. It was only to get the ball moving in the Plan of Man by God. So, "in the day" he ate from the tree his human spirit died, and he could not get it back. Christ rules the spirit(ual) realm and when the human spirit died there was a change in the mode of communication between man and God. But the point I want to make alongside this is that from that point on man became a dichotomy of body and soul - no human spirit. And it is through being born-again that God creates a new human spirit in His people, a human spirit that enables that man (and woman) the ability to process spiritual phenomenon and allows man to discern God, hear from God, and pray and worship Him. Thus, since these two (Adam and Eve) could not pass a human spirit to their children in birth. And so Jesus' words here are better understood: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:27–28. The only people being cast into "hell" are dichotomy people (body and soul) and those who are going to be with God are those who have been born-again and a human spirit created anew for them: 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Th 5:23. Here, Saul is writing to a people ALREADY saved and look at his description: (whole spirit and soul and body - born-again.) Reference for the creation of a new human spirit: 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:24. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Co 5:17. "Created" and "creature" in both verses is the same Greek word, a word which when transliterated in Hebrew corresponds to the word "bara" which means 'to create something out of nothing' and a word describing an act of God.

The makeup of man at creation was a trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit. A "day" with the Lord because He is eternal is the point blurred between beginning and end, and He knows the end because He ordained it. It was a 24-hour day for it is inconceivable that "morning and night were the first 1000-year day." With regard to earth and creation it did not take 1000 years for the earth to make one complete orbit-circuit. It took 24 hours as the other points of creation dictate and reveal. It is also inconceivable that Adam died in a 1000-year day for he did live short of 1000 years (930 years) so your interpretation falls short of the truth. No one takes 1000 years to die.

Man was already a body. God only animated the body and breathed into his nostrils and miraculously imparted (note: imPARTed) a foreknowledged soul and imPARTed a human spirit and man became a living soul. He wasn’t indwelt with the Holy Spirit for there wasn’t atonement yet. Man was created sinful (“missing the mark”) and fallen short of the glory of God (or THAT IS God) for Isaiah says, “there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (sinlessness) to NO ONE.” man was a sinner before he sinned and disobeyed God for sin comes from sinner… 13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13. … thus proving sin comes from sinner. besides this truth of Scripture man was already a sinner BEFORE he ate from the tree thus destroying the false teaching of a Fall: 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6 and this is proved by their (man and woman) adding to His Words “neither shall ye touch it” in Gen 3:3. And even if you were to say Adam didn’t add to His Words, woman was taken from man and their similarity is striking (sinner comes from sinner) for it is impossible they were created holy or sinless for Isaiah says, “there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (Holiness/Sinlessness, etc.) to NO ONE. Surely God reduplicated none of His Personal Nature and Attributes into any created matter. There is only ONE God. AND if man was created holy or sinless (nature of God) he would by necessity have to possess ALL God’s Nature and Attributes else he would be fallen short of the glory that is God for ONLY ONE PERSON can stand before a Holy God blameless and that is a Holy Son - Jesus the Christ (the Word made flesh.)

Adam is not the image of God, Christ is. There is no better image of a Father than a Son. I believe God looked forward and even when man was created to the new man to be created in God's image. We are, after all, being conformed into the image of Christ, not Adam. Adam was created from the dust of the ground; Christ is the Lord from heaven. Adam is natural, of the earth, earthy; Christ is the Lord from heaven. 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:13–15. 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, Heb 1:2–3.

Adam did not possess the Holy Spirit. The breath from God merely animated man and man became trichotomy - body, soul, human spirit - NOT Holy Spirit (lower case "S".) You are confusing man's human spirit and God's breath-Spirit which animated Him. It is the breath of God that returns to God upon death, but in Adam's case his spirit died in him which is the breath of God. It died in him but is alive as it came from God and God is God of all living. There was no "Fall." Man was created sinful ("missing the mark") and sinned because he was a sinner. Eating from the forbidden tree was not their first sin. Adding to God's Word ("neither shall ye touch it") was a sin before God. 6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6. Sin comes from sinner as wickedness comes from the wicked. 13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13. I wonder how ancient this proverb was when it was written/spoken. Maybe even to the time of the Garden? The eyes of their minds, their understanding and awareness were opened. They saw nothing. You are applying what the woman experienced to the man. Adam merely ate what was offered to him from the woman. It is here the means of communication changed between God and the man. No eyes can behold the Almighty especially sinful eyes from a sinful man. To behold the glory of the LORD would automatically kill the man. No flesh shall glory in His Presence. The eye of the soul is the eyes of the mind. They were sinful before God in their creation but by virtue of a lamb being slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world God in His longsuffering was able to endure sin and sinfulness in His Presence and not eradicate it. The whole purpose of God concerning man was to call out a people to Himself and this He did beginning in the Garden. Scripture says Adam hid because he was afraid. Even before their sin of adding to God's Word ("neither shall ye touch it") and eating from the forbidden tree they were not in "right standing before God." They were created sinful ("missing the mark") which is why they sinned as sin comes from sinner. Sin does not come from Holy. God was not being rhetorical when He said, "WHO told you that you were naked?" Maybe the serpent as a beast of the field (of the earth, earthy) had the power of speech as well as walking or the woman's awareness told him in ridicule that he was naked. But God asked "WHO." There was indeed a change, and it occurred to their minds - exactly the same place where repentance occurs. You are spiritualizing an existence and event that is not spiritual. Adam was created from the dust of the ground and was of the earth, earthy, as Saul adds to our understanding in 1 Corinthians 15. There is enormous difference and distinction between the man who is of the earth, earthy, and the Lord from heaven that you are ignoring or haven't been taught or learned. When you accept Isaiah's words that there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE then you have the grounds for understanding the creation of man. Man was not created holy, or righteous, of sinless. These Attributes belong to only God and as Isaiah says, there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (Holiness, Righteousness, Sinlessness, etc.) to NO ONE then we can understand that man (and woman) was created fallen short of the glory of God. The word for that is "sin." Their understanding of their nakedness is not limited to their genital as classic artistry always paints Adam and the woman with a fig leaf covering their genitals. Their nakedness to them was their skin and not only their genitals. Hair is a covering, and their pubes covered their genitals. Their issue was their skin, and they sewed fig leaves together to cover their skin and in effect tried to be 'tree-people' in attempting to cover their skin. This led to God covering them through the death of a sacrifice for their covering and such sacrifice that was taught to Abel who brought an animal from his flock later to worship God. When a person is born again by the Word of God (1 Pete 1:21) they remain body and soul, and God creates a new human spirit in the person which enables the three-fold person to process spiritual phenomenon and to communicate with God who is Spirit. 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:24. Since the Garden man lost his human spirit and became a dichotomy (body and soul) and if left in this condition and never born again they die a dichotomy and are cast into "hell" (Matt. 10:28.) But a born-again person is restored to a trichotomy of body, soul, and human spirit who is indwelt by the unction of the Holy Spirit. They still suffer the penalty for sin which is death but when a believer dies is translated into eternity since they are no longer bound by time and upon death find everything has been said and done and Christ is sitting on His throne in Jerusalem and the Promises of God to Abraham and his seed have been realized. Now comes the Great White throne judgment. And it doesn't look good for anyone who is not of the seed of Abraham. ibid. Only the woman was deceived. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1 Tim. 2:14. Nothing except the Plan for Man was "set up" by God. But this Plan began in the Mind of God BEFORE He created heaven, earth, or man. This is where His foreknowledge of His people named in the book of life began - in the Mind of God. God created the man and woman sinful ("missing the mark") as that was the only way they could be created since there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE. Sin comes from sinner. Sin does not come from Holy. The Last Adam proved this. He was born Holy, Righteous, and Sinless and He did not sin neither was guild found in His mouth. The first Adam (and woman) was created sinful ("missing the mark") and sinned because they were sinful. Their lives were not "set up" to live in the Garden. Everything man was or possessed came from God - even his sinfulness. There is nothing in creation that did not come from God. Even the creation of a sinful man was an act of God for the purpose to call out a people to Himself. Man might be restored to fellowship but from God's perspective His people were always "with" Him. They only became "lost" when God breathed into the man's nostrils His elect people in his loins that would be born at the appointed time and born-again at the appointed time. If a person is born-again and God creates a new human spirit in the person, then that person is one-third saved. Their body and soul still suffer the effects of sinfulness. When a believer dies or when Christ returns their bodies are changed in the twinkle-twinkle of His eye and their soul is purified and man becomes truly saved. When born-again the believer only has a human spirit that is created anew, and the Holy Spirit that dwells within them. Until then believers are only one-third saved if looking at man as a born-again trichotomy of (sinful) body, (sinful) soul, and purified human spirit. This condition is addressed by Saul in his letter to Jewish Christians at Thessalonica: 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:23. as opposed to the non-elect, unsaved person who dies without Christ: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28. There are no three-part persons in "hell." Only two-parters.

What I find in this verse is evidence of the restoration of the image of God in the born-again believer. Adam was created body, soul, and human spirit (not Holy Spirit.) When he sinned he died "in the day" he ate of the tree and became body and soul, no human spirit. He could not pass a human spirit to his children and so forth and mankind were born from him only body and soul. Then Jesus said this: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28. This to me evidences that those unsaved and die unsaved are cast into "hell" body and soul, no human spirit. When a person is born-again God creates a new human spirit in the believer that enables spiritual communication with God and able to process spiritual phenomenon. 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:23–24. This leads me to: 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature (or "creation"): old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Co 5:17. And takes me to: 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:23. There are no three-part persons in "hell."

What breath? The breath of God? All God did was animate the man and he became a living soul. He didn't receive the Holy Spirit but throughout the Hebrew Scriptures "soul" and "spirit" are used interchangeably and the context must be considered. But it is the "soul" of man that is a lamp of the Lord. This "spirit/soul" is OF MAN. Animation.

But you referenced me as friend. Now what happened? Psst...bring scissors. (advice from a friend, brother, and dude.)

And this one: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Ti 3:16–17.

From "brother" to "dude." What happen to you.

If I may... The English word "theologian" and its cognates is compound and it derives from two Greek words: "Theos" which means "God," and "Logos" which means "word" or "thought." Put together it means "Word of God." So, if you read and mostly study the Bible or the Word of God then this means you, too, are a "theologian." So make the best of it.

Knock, Knock.

A person is qualified to hear an answer to a question if they ask a question and desire to hear an answer. That is a given. But sometimes the answer comes with strings attached: And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders, 2 And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority? 3 And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: 4 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? 5 And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not? 6 But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet. 7 And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was. 8 And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things. Lk 20:1–8. Since I proceed from the knowledge of my calling and place in the body and knowing my spiritual gifts to accomplish that call any person that come to me or I interact with is prime target to share something about Jesus and this "so-great salvation." But I don't share anything to anyone unless the "season" reveals itself and it does that by someone asking a simple question about anything bible. Now, if a statement about God is introduced into the conversation by someone then I respond in some fashion and in context to what was said. Then I go fishing. And brother Pete is writing to Jewish Christians and the context of his statement in 2 Pete 3:9 addresses God's elect coming to repentance 'in His time.' Take note: 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any [of us-ward] should perish, but that all [of us-ward] should come to repentance. 2 Pete 3:9. And in God's time all of us-ward shall all come to repentance. God frequently sends an elect believer away from him and into the valley or allows sin to enter their lives that they backslid and apostatize or deny Him through their sinful behaviors, which is what it seems to me brother Pete may be saying. Outside of that he can, with his knowledge of God's election, only be speaking about the elect that will in time come to repentance. But Pete's words are not addressing everybody but the elect of God and the elect of God are not everyone or every human alive. The error of Christianity in this day and age is the belief and teaching in the Church that every born-again believer is tasked with sharing the gospel with everyone they meet. This harms the body of Christ and evokes animosity if not, outright hatred of Christians. And we are only Gentile Christians which is one thing, but Jews and Jewish Christians are another. And there is a great difference between Jews/Jewish Christians to whom have been committed the oracles of God and Gentile Christians to whom has been committed nothing of the sort. No Gentile Scriptures exist. All the Word God we have as bible is Jewish. Do you remember living in darkness and some Christian living in the light would preach to you about your sin and about Jesus? Remember how it made you feel uncomfortable? All it did as you listened half-heartedly or didn't listen at all is make you want that person to shut up and act "normal"? When I do make reply to someone who asked me a question about God or bible-things is give them from what I know related to their question. I don't do the "milk-meat" thing for all God's word is meat (nourishment.) I give them the Word plain and simple and the Lord will determine what they retain or what speaks to them. I just plant and water. I don't recall anyone "planting seed" in me before I began planting seeds in myself when I began reading Scripture at the age of 11-12. What drew me in was all this terrifying 'beast with ten heads and seven crowns or horns, or a beast out of the bottomless pit,' and other imagery from Revelation that scared the crap out of me. I didn't know until later that I had been planting seed within myself all along and later around the age of 16 the Lord brought into my life a 12th grade Christian who lived around the corner I'd see frequently who would preach/share Jesus and pray with me and for me. Soon, the Holy Spirit invaded my life. Only if they were receptive and welcomed such conversation. But as a rule, darkness doesn't want to come to the light [Christ] because they hate the light [Christ], neither come to the light [Christ]. If my life as a Christian in not a living epistle to be read of all men and that doesn't invoke conversation or even a question then I need to check to see if I'm really plugged in to the power supply, or maybe my bulb upstairs is broken. But then again, it depends on what God wants to do, how to use me. I can go years without someone asking me about Jesus and they know I'm a Christian and it could be the Lord will send or use someone else. Even if I never lead anyone to faith in Christ and witness their conversion does not mean I've failed the Lord. There are no quotas to meet. Only command and obedience. I let the Lord sort out who gets saved and who doesn't. That enemy is your flesh. The angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. There's nobody here but us humans. What exactly does "he that winneth souls is wise" mean to a covenant people already saved? Surely there were no prophets going to Gentiles saying "Believe the gospel and be saved!" or "accept Jesus into your heart," or "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved" in Old Testament Scripture. I know Jonah went to Nineveh and everyone repented but later God destroyed the Ninevites. What exactly does "he that winneth souls is wise" mean at the time it was spoken/written? What's the background? What's the original application? Having no desire for 'others' to be saved is not a measure of one's salvation. Doesn't God "hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?(Rom. 9:18–21.), what does it say of God if He chooses one person for honour and another for dishonour. What does your GIF above say about God who does this and is mindful He does it on purpose?

Well, being at a Christian website I thought you wanted the biblical answer.

If I'd just answered you with a line or two then you'd understand me according to your background and understanding in which certain terms I use you may have a different understanding and so my answer is not truly understood in context to my understanding but yours. I wanted you to understand where I was coming from. QUOTE: "do you first somehow determine if the hearer is qualified to hear?" RESPONSE: That depends on what comes out of their mouth. I don't just blab, "Jesus loves you and He died for you!" when I know from Scripture God loves and God hates, and both are in accordance with His Sovereignty. But I don't make determination as to whether God loves or hates the person I'm speaking with. That's not my realm or prerogative. I don't do that. But it is useful. 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. Mt 15:18. The hearer is qualified to hear when they ask a question of me about this so-great salvation. When a question is asked, they show their qualification to hear an answer. I listen very carefully to the question and all questions they may pose and through discernment of conversation that went before try to craft an answer that would speak to them 'where they live.' Just as it was important that you who asked a question, I know nothing about you, so it was necessary that the answer I give you be in accordance with what I see and know so that you would hopefully truly understand the answer. If I merely answer without background, you will understand my answer in accordance with your understanding of terms I may use. I don't believe the false theology of the "salvation formula" Gentile Christians believe in their "witnessing" taken from Romans 10 and lead anyone in a prayer to 'salvation.' If someone is sincere in asking of the hope in me, I will know it and respond accordingly. And I always make attempt in answering in a way that speaks directly to their situation in life and where they 'live.' QUOTE: "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" RESPONSE: Yes, but to whom did Jesus say this to? Jesus said this to His eleven disciples. He "sent" them to do this thing for Him. It was their command and instruction. If you're going to tell me Jesus spoke this to everyone, to every Christian in Christendom, then that would be error. Interpreting the above to apply to everyone would be grammatically incorrect. This would effectively make everyone in the body of Christ an apostle and that is error. Saul said in the negative, "are all apostles?" And the answer is no, everyone in the body of Christ is not an apostle. Where would be the hearing, or the seeing? Where would be the foot and the hand if everyone was a thumb? But that Scripture is there for our training and admonition. And in the course of someone's salvation or even the revealing of their call the Lord would speak those words to that person as an internal call or externally in front of the body of believers (Acts 13:1-4.)