Larry H

Greeting Sorry for taking so long I think to understand what the Mark of the beast represents, it should be contrasted to God's mark Revelation 9:4: Those who do not have the seal of God in their forehead will be tormented. The Beast's mark is contrasted to God's mark! God's mark on Christians Revelation 7:3; 14:1; 22:4: Where will the name of God be written? It will be sealed in their foreheads! Revelation 19:13: What exactly is the name of God that'll be written in their foreheads? It is The Word Of God! (See also John 1:1,14). In other words, Scripture, God's Word, will be in their hearts, minds, and souls! Nero's the beast of Revelation's has his mark on the Roman Empire, The forehead signifying control of the mind, the hand representing power. Revelation 13:16-17: The Beast places a mark on the hand or forehead of his followers also. This mark is his name (which represents ones character). Revelation 14:9-11; 16:2; 19:20: Those who receive the mark of the Beast (worship something other than God) will be tormented.

Colossians 3:8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. NASU Jesus said we would know them by their fruit is sums up in nine attributes of a person or community living in accord with the Holy Spirit, according to chapter 5 of the Epistle to the Galatians: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. .

Hi again Retrobyter I beg to differ, in my estimation a spiritual, allegory resurrection is what God's views, not man unless it is revealed to him. Corinthians 2:13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. Resurrection, Spiritual Most Relevant Verses I pulled this off the internet. Ephesians 2:1 Verse Concepts And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, Ezekiel 37:1-14 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and He brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me down in the middle of the valley; and it was full of bones. He caused me to pass among them round about, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley; and lo, they were very dry. He said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord GOD, You know."read more. John 5:24 Verse Concepts "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24-26 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; Romans 6:3-5 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:17 Verse Concepts and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Colossians 2:13 Verse Concepts When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, Philippians 4:13 Verse Concepts I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Verse Concepts Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Galatians 2:20 Verse Concepts "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. Philippians 3:10 Verse Concepts that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; Colossians 3:1-2 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. Colossians 3:3-4 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. 1 Peter 2:1-3 Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord. John 3:3 Verse Concepts Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Romans 6:13 Verse Concepts and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 1 John 3:14 Verse Concepts We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. Romans 7:4 Verse Concepts Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. You thought

Hi Retrobyter This is a question from You Previous post "All Israel will be save" Thanks for taking the time to do so. It reminds of Daniel chapter 12:2 which seems to use the same phraseology of Ezekiel 37 "spiritual Resurrection of Israel after the Babylonian captivity" Dead man's bones come to life in a Spiritual National Resurrection of the whole house of Israel. Do you see any correlation between those books since the Old Testament doesn't seem to mention specifically a biological resurrection. Although I do believe in a afterlife for those in God's favor through the New Testament. In other words is Daniel 12 speaking of a biological or spiritual resurrection, and has similarities to John 5:28.29 Kind Regards Larry

Perhaps, but has nothing to do IMHO what I have posted. So basically Jesus, John the Baptist and the Apostles had in mind that Israel was going to be a Nation once again, which was proven in 1948. And this is what Jesus and John meant, and how the Apostles understood those time indicators. Instead of first century imminent events. How was that going to serve those first century persecuted Jewish Christians who heeded the words of Christ knowing of God's Divine Judgment on an Apostate Nation. Luke 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. Read Matthew 23-24 What generation, theirs or ours Matthew 24:34 Matthew 23:36 I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. I believe those verses mostly had to do with the contemporary generation, audience, of Jesus. The sadness was those who did not heed His words found them selves surrounded by the Romans Armies in the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70. It reminds me of the question the disciple asked Jesus "Tell us, when shall these things be" Matt,24:3 Please read Luke 19:41-44 I started a thread Eschatology under Prophecy "The New frontier preterism" As far as I am concerned it is not the last word on the subject matter. Your thoughts

Report post All yellow making are mine. I did not state these words Jesus and John the Baptist did. One doesn't have to be a preterist to understand the simple meaning of these imminent time statement, and what they pointed to. 1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2) 2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7) 3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10) 4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12) 5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17) 6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7) 7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23) A candid tribulationist responded to these verses "All these had to do with His first coming, that is true...........but will be fulfilled again with His second coming. First it was to Israel (ensample to the church), second time to the church. The harvest in the end of the age.....first a separation of sheep and goats and a separation of wheat and tares took place in the first century at the end of the age of the Jews....AND this will all be fulfilled a second time in the end of the age of the Gentiles. FIRST THE NATURAL, THEN THE SPIRITUAL. First the earnest of the Spirit, then the fullness.  The gospel to the Jew first, then the Gentile. There is nothing new under the sun, and what has been will be again. That seems to wrap it up quite neatly, thanks be to God. Or by this none preterist commentator Matthew 10:23 [Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel ...] That is, in fleeing from persecutors from one city to another, you shall not have gone to every city in Judea until the end of the Jewish economy shall occur. See the notes at Matthew 24:28-30. By "the coming of the Son of Man," that is, of "Christ," is probably meant the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened about thirty years after this was spoken. The words are often used in this sense. See Matthew 24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27,32. Barnes'

Hi Onelight Thanks for the welcome Which on of these is out of context, If so what were they referring to literally. . "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2) 2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7) 3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10) 4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12) 5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17) 6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7) 7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23)

Hi Shalom I'm pulled in two direction being a Jew by birth speculate how many converts were there prior to the 18th century, compared to our day. Since I see you are familiar with the subject matter, when it says "all Israel will be saved." will there any limitations. Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'" Just asking

Greeting brother How about 101 verses ?☺️? http://www.preteristcosmos.com/preterism101.html

Hey brother Shabbat not a problem, thanks for responding with that information. Giving me the opportunity to do same. Note 1 ..... So the estimation time span of the "at hand" was up until till the Children of God's rejection of Messiah's crucifixion. Alternatively 40 years later at the destruction of the temple in AD 70 Matthew 24 Short story 400 years prior to the "the Messenger of the Covenant's" visitation to the land of Israel Mal. 3:1 Malachi predicts an unexpected message regarding God's Divine intervention, a proclamation of doom on Old Covenant Israel. Mal. 4:1. Following the 400 years of silence, John states 'Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is "at hand" ....Jesus said in like manner, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17) "A prophet had again risen up in Israel, and 'the Lord had visited His people" 1. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7) 2. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10) 3. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12) In the first century these warnings were predicted and fulfilled. "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. Luke 23:28 Your thoughts

Hi Shabbat I know ...... when did I suggest an "in hand" scenario, instead of a done deal in the first century after the letter was penned. Your quoting the wrong guy. Perhaps you should reread and rethink my previous post Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of HEAVEN IS NEAR." Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of HEAVEN IS AT HAND!" Matthew 3: Repent, for the kingdom of HEAVEN IS AT HAND." Your quoting the wrong guy again, I agree "Absolutely NO "Replacement Theology" is acceptable in ANY form!" Here we go again, I agree no double fulfillment. I only granted the time indicator verses were fulfilled in the first century The seven notes are kind of long winded, let take this a little at a time. Let us continue as you said.

If I was wearing sandals in first century Asia Rev.1:4,11 Revelation would be irrelevant if not understanding the emblematic expressions. Since I could not be blessed by the words of John. Rev. 1:3 The same could be said of the mark of the beast on the forehead and hand of Nero, the beast of Revelation who ruled the Roman Empire. Historical Research will tell why that monster was called a beast. be continued

Hi Uriah Hi lighting and capitalization's by my pen for clarity "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23) A previous poster made this statement about that verse "The evidence would be that the meaning of His return in their lifetime is remained unfulfilled" My response Not so according to a candid Tribulationist I had an interchanged with in the thread. In a previous post, IMHO are references to provide the evidence needed to prove a first century literal return, note number 7 1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2) 2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7) 3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10) 4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12) 5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17) 6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7) 7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23) The candid tribulationist responded "All these had to do with His first coming, that is true...........but will be fulfilled again with His second coming. First it was to Israel (ensample to the church), second time to the church. The harvest in the end of the age.....first a separation of sheep and goats and a separation of wheat and tares took place in the first century at the end of the age of the Jews....AND this will all be fulfilled a second time in the end of the age of the Gentiles. FIRST THE NATURAL, THEN THE SPIRITUAL. First the earnest of the Spirit, then the fullness.  The gospel to the Jew first, then the Gentile. There is nothing new under the sun, and what has been will be again. That seems to wrap it up quite neatly, thanks be to God." Obviously this seems like the partial preterist view which the poster doesn't want to be labeled, and I respect that. Any thought's

Sorry for this page, I tried to past a link and a video came up. I deleted it

Hi Uriah Hi lighting and capitalization's by my pen for clarity "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23) A previous poster made this statement about that verse "The evidence would be that the meaning of His return in their lifetime is remained unfulfilled" My response Not so according to a candid Tribulationist I had an interchanged with in the thread. In a previous post, IMHO are references to provide the evidence needed to prove a first century literal return, note number 7 1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2) 2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7) 3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10) 4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12) 5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17) 6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7) 7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, UNTIL THE SON OF MAN COMES." (Matt. 10:23) The candid tribulationist responded "All these had to do with His first coming, that is true...........but will be fulfilled again with His second coming. First it was to Israel (ensample to the church), second time to the church. The harvest in the end of the age.....first a separation of sheep and goats and a separation of wheat and tares took place in the first century at the end of the age of the Jews....AND this will all be fulfilled a second time in the end of the age of the Gentiles. FIRST THE NATURAL, THEN THE SPIRITUAL. First the earnest of the Spirit, then the fullness.  The gospel to the Jew first, then the Gentile. There is nothing new under the sun, and what has been will be again. That seems to wrap it up quite neatly, thanks be to God." Obviously this seems like the partial preterist view which the poster doesn't want to be labeled, and I respect that. Any thoughts

Hi Uriah Thanks for bringing Hab. 2:3,4 to my interest with expressions appearing to show Heb. 10:37 is alluding to the coming of Christ in our future by a twofold, double talk, interpretation. Or is it possible the writer of Hebrews was using Hab. 2:3,4 to accommodate those words to his own purpose." And supplying the first century Hebrews with the imminent arrival of Divine National Judgment on the Chosen Nation? Matthew 23 through chapter 24:1-34 Jesus said he would return in the lifetime of his disciples Matt.10:23 DOUBLE TALK EXAMPLES Reducing costs" instead of "cutting your salary" "Violent extremism" instead of "abject terrorism" "Gently used" instead of "used and horribly beaten up" You said "Got my PM" How do I get it, and what does PM stand for.

Greeting Uriah and Dase I must apologize for my previous statement in my most recent post. My quote was .... "Why wait for the last days, perhaps the Rapture can come to pass a thousand years from today." I was thinking out of the box of tribulationists theology. Be that as it may, the poster had HEBREWS 10:25 in mind, and was endeavoring to encourage a fellow colleague with scripture. "Let, but let us encourage one another — and all the more as you see the DAY APPROACHING" Nonetheless the writer of Hebrews was advocating something else entirely, "the destruction of Jerusalem was an event of great importance TO THE HEBREWS, AND TO THE HEBREW CHRISTIANS TO WHOM THIS EPISTLE WAS DIRECTED", Not something that was going to take place thousands of Years later. "For in just a VERY LITTLE WHILE, "HE WHO IS COMING will come and WILL NOT DELAY HEBREWS 10:37 It 's from this time text, and others that formulates a good case for Realized Eschatology". NOW IF THIS ISN'T LITERAL, and in context I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS. Thanks for reading

Welcome Daze Do you consider Uriah's faith is in danger since he studies tribulation eschatology which is problematic, when in fact as I see it he is taking the advice from his brother the Apostle Peter "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect" Obviously I see from the teaching of Jesus he holds his own by doing so with gentleness and respect. To me that's a way to live the Christian life. Wouldn't you think so. Why wait for the last days, perhaps the Rapture can come to pass a thousand years from today, and time means nothing to God. Kind Regards Larry

Good question Uriah I'll give it a try ? The prediction of a Spiritual Resurrection. Prediction John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. Fulfilled in the eyes of God Ephesians 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, Because The things God predicts is certain, and one doesn't have to see it to believe it. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Rapture I am not signifying perhaps there is no corporeal pre trib Rapture in our future, but a case can be made for what Paul intended to bring out in his letter to the Thessalonians to encourage his brothers concerning those who have died. The idea of Pre trib is by the process of elimination of the other Rapture views. Interesting, can you post some particulars on the constructive side, like the second advent, and the millennium. How do these series of verses fit together to draw the conclusion of the Pre Trib Rapture view. For example 1 Cor.15:51 Seems to fit in to the scenario.

Greetings .... I thought I switch gears to an alternative to preterism, tribulationalizm, I know Just another izm on the end times.. In my brief study I found three position, Pre, Mid, and Post tribulationists. All incorporating the timing of the Rapture, being caught up literally to meet the Lord in the air.. Founded on what Paul said to the Thessalonians, and the Millennium mentioned by John in the book of Revelation. Not forgetting verses taken out from the Olivet Discourse. May I might ask which arrangement is settled on, and why in view of the fact it necessitate a expectation of a future second coming. I am certain there is a good deal I can gain knowledge of here concerning the Rapture theology in this open forum. I posted it here since there are two schools of thought in preterism concerning the verses in Thessalonians, the Physical Ruptured, caught up, which came to pass in the first century, or a spiritual gathering of the Saints. Not too sure about the elements of the spiritual gathering yet.

Hi Uriah I agree Well said ....."He also said (NASB) Acts 1:8- but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” Sometime I think we do not bestow sufficient recognition to our first century brothers and sister who passed through a great tribulation and death to provide us with the Good News of the Gospel, penned by the Holy Spirit. Reaching people throughout the world as you mentioned. I'll give the full Preterist view on "no one knows the day or hour" since it begs the question of what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:36. And the paradigm, the end of the world, which I believe the KJV deposited in the psyche of Christians since the middle ages. Matthew 24:3 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? KJV Matthew 24:3 The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age (Mark 13:3-13; Luke 21:17-19) Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" NKJV There is no question it is understood in verses 1 and 2 of Matt. 24 that Jesus is speaking of the destruction of the Jewish Temple in AD 70. Why would the disciple all of a sudden inquire about the "end of the world," as stated in the KJV. Which was later corrected in the NKJV, and changed the idiom "world" with "age", as all other translation did? The "age" spoken of I believe was the consummation of Old Covenant dispensation, the Mosaic economy which was realized by the temple's destruction followed by "the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away" Daniel 12:11

Hi Uriah I will have to back track on the nature of the coming of Christ. He came in glory manifested by THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM AND ITS TEMPLE IN AD 70. He came in the generation, first generation, He said he would.. I believe this is what Christ and the disciples had in mind in Matthew 24:1-3 where I think the second coming/Parousia originated for believers today. I hope that is satisfactory to your question Uriah. I had no intention to take you for a ride. Those things, scriptures I cut and pasted, and perhaps articles from the Preterits camp would give the read besides yourself what preterism is all about. Those who never took the time, or cared to find out of this theology. So where in the bible do the Apostles or Christ specifically indicated an over 2000 year return to earth to set up His corporeal Kingdom in the way it is presented in the Christian community. OK Your up Kind Regards Larry

Hi Uriah Was it something I said ? Your quotes "Man, you really wanted to go there?------oi-kü-me'-nā" "Good thing the disciples were packing their Greek concordances." "Of all people, you should understand the audience relevance thing here" Audience relevance Connect the dots and see if it comes up with as over a two thousand year fulfillment. Or a verse with double fulfillment's in the New Testament. Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be PREACHED IN THE WHOLE WORLD as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come NIV Matthew 24:34 I tell you the truth, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away UNTIL ALL THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. Colossians 1:6 "ALL OVER THE WORLD this gospel is bearing fruit" .... Present tense. "So I ask again, WHEN did Jesus return" Steak on the grill, in the next post my brother

So then the "world" is now the Roman world by analysis. Yes in Matthew 24:14 Not in John 3:16 Good your computer is fixed. The following SOUNDS LIKE GREED TO ME ALSO, ☺️ But it shows the difference between the two verses in question. Note that in John 3:16 the Greek word is kosmos "the inhabited earth" , In Matthew 24:14 the Greek word oikoumene "specifically, the Roman empire" I believe it will become clear in the next verse. Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. KJV Luke 2:1 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. NIV "Two thousand years ago, at the dawn of the first century, the world was ruled by Rome"

Perhaps it is something Jesus said concerning His second visitation that made the disciples misunderstand the imminent timing of it ? " I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes" "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." " Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."