SDAinFLA

This is an interesting discussion... I agree with everything except that the Abomination is to those countries that hate Israel...I think it's for anyone that doesn't except Jesus as Lord. But it was an intersting article.

You know it sister!!! I laughed out loud when I read that...yea that's a whole other issue. I appreciate your study with me on the Sabbath and sometimes we see things differently because of what we've been taught and sometime from what the Lord is showing us. I believe that God will lead both of us...and if there is a different path for me to go I am depending on God to reveal it to me. Thanks for all the information that you have given me. I will continue to look over it and study it.

Actually, I see it similar to you...but at the same time I also believe that in order to worship God in spirit...there is still a physical part that takes place. Worship involves singing, praying, reading God's Word. These are all physical. So even though one worships God in spirit...this doesn't mean that are isn't a physical part to this. Remember, faith without works is dead so there has to be a balance. So I think our disagreement here is probably...what is worshipping God in spirit, which I believe is physically, and mentally. I definetly agree that God created time, but I believe that even though it was created by Him doesn't mean that He won't operate in time. When we are living in eternity there is still time "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Revelarion 22:2 Also Revelation says "...they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Revelation 20:4 I would say that even though it is a creation of God...He can and sometimes chooses to operate within time. Thanks for reading.

I agree! I see your point. I didn

HA! THat is the trouble I get into trying to post at work, and today my son is here with me, since the Dr. is outta town and I am getting NOTHING accomplished except for working on a massive headache! Checking the Gideon bible here,---thank God for the Gideon's, hu? It's Deut. 5: 2 and 3 that I meant. I'll leave you to read that one and check back in around midnight when the kids are asleep so I can think! Arthur--give up the Ellen White junk ok? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> lol It's Ok...I kept reading that verse...and I was thinking...'Now, I know she can't be thinking of this verse!!!' Thanks because you had me going crazy for a moment there.... Ok. I will read it and then I will probably respond back on Monday because I don't have internet at home right now. But again thanks for the article and your Christain witnessing tactics...even if I we dont' see eye to eye at this moment in time, I do appreciate the way that you convey the information to me....I wish Arthur would learn to witness this way. Talk with ya soon!

Aurthur, how does the Bible define sin?

I read this scripture but I am not sure if you meant Deut. 5:20. (...shalt not bear false witness.) Maybe you meant vs. 15 (And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day) I don't see how this states that the law was only for the present people of that day. I believe the law always existed...this is why Cain sinned when he killed his brother....this is why Joseph didn't want to sin and sleep with another mans wife. But again, I'm not sure which scripture you meant to point out, so I will wait on you to clarify it for me. Thanks Yes I did. I was well written and made a lot of good points that I had never thought about. I agree a lot with the author. But the writer seems to state that because of the Genesis doesn't state that the evening and the morning were the 7th day that God continued his rest. It's an interesting theory, but I'm not sure I agree with it. I believe He did rest physically (not going to sleep) but He rested because He stopped creating. "...and he rested on the 7th day from all his work which he had made." Gen 2:2 To me it was a physical rest for God, but we see again that He will "create a new heaven and earth" one day which means the rest cannot be eternally. (let me know if this makes sense.) One thing I believe the writer failed to bring out: 3 things happend on the 7th day of creation: God rested on the 7th day God blessed the 7th day God sanctified the 7th day Sabbath rest was what God did physically, but spiritually He blessed and sanctified it. This brings me to my next question...What happened to the blessing and sanctification?

rollinTHUNDER, thanks for your response. I will try to answer your questions as best as possible. Here's my response, in which I will ask you a couple of questions: Genesis 2:2-3 says "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." God kept the Sabbath....How can the Sabbath be the law of Moses when it began before Moses was created? Was God also under the bondage of Moses? Did God keep ceremonial laws in heaven also? If this were true, Matthew 5:17 would say - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to DESTROY." Also, if the law is done away with...then what is sin? I call this a self-criteria rebutal...(I have done this at times also ). In other words, we give our own criteria for truth and then we rebutal it according to our own criteria....let me explain: It seems from your statement that you are concluding that if something is not re-stated in the New Testament...then it is no longer valid. That is reasonable, but I don't see where this theory comes from. For instance, God told Noah - "I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth." Genesis 9:13 I don't believe this statment is reinstated in the New Testament...but when we see a rainbow, we still know that God will not flood the earth again. So the answer to your question is ....no. The Sababth is not re-stated in the New Testament...but what scripture says that it has to be? Thanks for reading, and God bless!

I hear a lot of people talking about the temple being rebuilt and I am starting to understand why it's a big thing. In your opinion or what you believe in prophecy...what will happen once the temple is rebuilt? Thanks!

Arthur, how does the Bible define sin?

Thanks for the answers. Now I understand it!

This is a question that I am asking in which I don't know the answer but would like to hear the opinions of other Christians. Israel as a nation (not individually, because there are Jewish Christians) don't accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour. If this is the case, then they should be continuing in their animal sacrifices. But from what I see, they aren't sacrificing animals anymore. How come? If they don't believe that Jesus ended the law....then how come they don't continue with all the Old Testament laws? I would also like to hear an answer from an actual Jew. (Again, this is not for debate but more for curiosity).

You quote Colossians 2:14 - "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." Which law is against us? God's 10 Commandments or the Mosses Law? Notice which law the Bible says is contrary to us - "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." Deuteronomy 31:26 Moses put the book of the law on the side of the ark, which was against us. God's 10 Commandments were inside the ark "And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark." Deuteronomy 10:2 Moses put the 10 commandments inside the ark...and they were not against us nor were they nailed to the cross. We see that the book of the law is against us....which was nailed to the cross. Not God's 10-Commandments. Also...I will ask you another question, which I am not sure you answered... How does the Bible define sin?

Weren't all of the disciples Israelites? Wouldn't that mean that Paul, Peter, and the rest of the disciples remained Sabbath keepers? And didn't they start the church? Arthur, you ever wonder why the Bible says "for that sabbath day was an high day." John 19:31 ...did you know that there were ceremonial Sababths too? Well, if a ceremonial sabbath fell on the same day as the 7th Day Sabbath then it was called a high Sabbath. I believe this is plural because of both Sabbaths...but correct me if I'm wrong...you are saying that this verse is regarding the doing away of the Sabbath? To me it means what it says...end of the Sabbath; Just like...end of the year. Maybe we can do more research on this, but I think you're probably putting more into this than was intended. I do insist that it was changed by the Pope. American Heritage dictionary says "In a.d. 321 Constantine the Great grafted the Hellenistic astrological system onto the Roman calendar, making the first day of the week a day of rest and worship ..." http://www.bartleby.com/61/80/W0078000.html (Mid-paragraph) Arthur, the scriptures don't have to say exactly "the Sabbath is going to be a test" Did God tell Adam and Eve that a snake was going to try to deceive them into sinning? No He told them to stay away from the tree. He didn't have to tell them what the test would be. In the same token, God said to keep His commandments...if the test for humanity is the Sabbath...He doesn't have to tell us anything...He's already told us to keep His commandments. I'm sorry you believe I am playing dumb in regards to the date line thing...but the answer is simple. If you live in Japan and it's Sabbath...why would I worry about what time it is in another location. Also, you should know that SDA's don't believe in Moses laws. We do however believe in the 10 Commandments which the Sabbath is part of it...if we did believe in the other laws...I probably would've been stoned by now!

I believe in the investigative judgement, and that we are better off not eating meat than eating meat...and those other doctrines. My only problem is that this forum is in regards to the Sabbath and that's what people view this forum to look at. I try to stay within the subject or question that has been asked. You're all over the place man! ...I advise that you should create a forum for a topic that you would like to discuss and then I can give you my reasons for that particular question. Again, thanks for your replies, but please try to keep working on your responses so that it doesn't appear that you are picking on the person. Remember, witnessing is supposed to win souls to Christ. The date line? Are you serious? I don't even know how to respond...I mean...Currently on Sunday in China it could be Sabbath in America...so that would mean that Chinese Christians are worshipping on Sabbath. Arthur...unfortunately the Bible doesn't metion the date line, so if you have an issue with that then you will have to talk with God...He created time.

I always thought that I put my trust in God, but a couple of months ago I realize that I definetly don't put all trust in God. I am a worrier...I worry about everything. Do people like me? Will I do a good job teaching our Bible study group? I hear an ambulace...is my wife hurt? I didn't realize this, but in essence I have been sinning against God. The Bible says "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Romans 14:23 I have been getting better in not worrying about things because that means that I don't really believe that God is going to take care fo me. Then I look at how He has led me in the past and so I can look at my present situation and know that God is still in control. So the answer is no. I don't put all my trust but God is showing me through trials and tribulations that in order to make it in these last days I have to put 100% trust in him. Thanks for reading guys...and God bless!

Ted, you make an excellent point and I agree with you except in regards to the Sababth. When the disciples had this conversation, the 7th day Sabbath wasn't in question, but rather the Law of Moses and the law of circumcision. [But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. Acts 15:5] So whether we believe the Sabbath was done away with depends on how you view the Sabbath. I view the Sabbath as still part of the 10 commandments, which animal sacrifices, circumcision, cerimonial sabbath days, or feast days were not included as part of the 10 commandments. I do agree with you that sacrifices, feasts, circumcision were done, but I just believe that the 7th day Sabbath was a different ballpark.

Word, sorry I didn't respond to you earlier, but I will not have internet for the next couple of weeks so I will try to reply to you at work when possible. Thanks for you response. I agree with most of it, but I have at least one question on your response. God says "It [the Sabbath] is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever." Exodus 31:17 If the 'rest' that Israel was supposed to come into involved the doing away with the Sabbath, then how come God said that the Sabbath is sign that lasts forever for Israel?

Word, Here are the answer to your questions...

Arthur, I truly appreciate your replies and historical information on the Adventist Church. Though your responses tend to be sarcastic, I believe this might be the only method in which you were taught to defend scripture. Either way, it would not profit me to respond in like-manner. I hear your accusations on EGW, and I completely understand where you are coming from. In my opinion, most SDA don't believe in her for the most part. So you have not given me information that is news to me. There are hundreds of websites explaining why EGW was a false profit...this is something that I am doing my own personal study on, with prayer and fasting. However, I used all scrptures when disputing on the Sabbath...you are the one that quoted Ellen Gould White Harmon. So while I understand what you're trying to do...I believe your methods of disputing the scriptures can be much more profitable if you weren't so busy trying to win the argument. But again, thanks for the information, I will read it. But as for now, I am still a firm believer in the 10-commandments (not 9) and all the other "weird" doctrines of the SDA church. Keep me in your prayers Arthur

lol you guys are funny!

I think I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if Sunday or Sababth is the answer as far as evangelism is concerned. The 7th day Sabbath isn't necessarily a witnessing tool (only if the person doesn't know about it.) Even though we hear the word of God every Sabbath at church...this doesn't prohibit us from preaching every day of the week. We can pass out tracts about Jesus, we can go to the hospital and visit the sick....the possibilites are limitless when it comes to witnessing and evangelism. The disciples didn't hold preaching to one day. "And they, continuing dailywith one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart." Acts 2:46 To me the world isn't going to find out about Jesus by going to church...the church is going to have to go out to the world and preach Jesus everyday. Thx

Hi 357! That is a good point. I believe God probably straightened that out. I think that even after the sun stood still, God, most likley, still required the Jews to keep the Sabbath holy and so I believe that somewhere down the line, he would have made sure that their time period was correct. And you know what I was thinking? It probably doesn't even matter if a day lasts 24 hours or 500 hours. If God made the sun stand still right now for the rest of the year...then Wednesday would start next year for me. Your ministry sounds like a lot of fun. May God continue to bless you.

Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying. It sounds like you mean that if some keep Sabbath on Saturday but others keep Sabbath on Sunday, then it doesn't help the gospel or further the kingdom. Maybe you can clarify it for me somewhat. Thx