Tammy Roesch

11 hours ago, Waggles said:

The sabbath is now fulfilled through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. For by exercising the power and work of the Holy Spirit within me God gives me his rest.

For Spirit-filled Christians the sabbath is spiritual and 7 days a week.

Matthew 11:28  Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 
29  Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest to your souls. 
Mat 11:30  For my yoke is easy, and my burden light. 

Are the other 9 also "fulfilled through the baptism of the Holy Spirit"?  Is it NOW OK to break them, too????

11 hours ago, Waggles said:

We now live under a NEW covenant - a different covenant of liberty in Christ Jesus 

Psalm 40:7  Then I said, “Behold, I have come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me: 
8  I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.” 

thus we are free to choose Sundays as our sabbath - for the moral principle of having a sabbath is fulfilled in our choice to do so - we are free under grace. 

Saturdays is for Judah and the Jews, not the Spirit-filled church.

So Waggles, are you really saying it's OK to MURDER, STEAL, LIE, COMMIT ADULTERY, WORSHIP other gods?  The Sabbath is with THESE COMMANDMENTS.  If you throw out the Sabbath, to be consistent, you must throw out the other 9 as well.

17 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I would argue that Sunday is the seventh day.

You do realize that basically ALL OTHER CHRISTIAN religions believe that Saturday is the Sabbath...I'll share a list of them in another post.

20 hours ago, appy said:

There is the impression that some folks just know that others are sinners because those others do not do as they do or do not feel as they do.  God see's our hearts and knows who is or who is not, his child.   We humans on the other hand can not see into another person's heart and know that God is displeased with them or that they are not obeying God.  

 We are NOT called to be morality cops, but to share the gospel message with the lost.  

Do as the Lord leads "YOU, YOURSELF",(collective you, no one here specifically) and let God do the leading of others.

John 21:21
When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?”  Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain until I return, what is that to you? You follow Me

Romans 14:3-4
The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.  Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

Romans 14:22
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.

 

Appy, if we see our brother doing something we believe is not right, should we say nothing and let him go on his way?  Or should we show him the right way?
 

20 hours ago, Alive said:

Yup--

Rom. 14:1 (NAS20S)   Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not to have quarrels over opinions.   One person has faith that he may eat all things, but the one who is weak eats only vegetables. ³ The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.   Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom. 14:5 (NAS20S)    One person values one day over another, another values every day the same. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. ⁶ The one who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and the one who eats, does so with regard to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat, it is for the Lord that he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God. ⁷ For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; ⁸ for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. ⁹ For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

ALIVE, please show me from the Bible where the MORAL LAW (the 10 Commandments) talks anything about what we EAT or DRINK.  And where does the MORAL LAW speak about different holy days?  

I see no where in the 10 Commandments where it does EITHER.  The 10 Commandments ONLY speaks about THE SABBATH - ONE HOLY DAY....not MULTIPLE HOLY DAYS.  But if you go and read about the CEREMONIAL LAW, you will find that it mentions HOLY DAYS and MEATS & DRINKS.   You are confusing the two laws.  The Ceremonial Law was done away with at the Cross, that is why it is no longer necessary to keep the HOLY DAYS - the Feast of Tabernacles, the Passover, Feast of Trumpets, etc.  But THESE DAYS have NOTHING to do with THE WEEKLY SABBATH in the MORAL LAW.

ALIVE, do you believe it's OK to LIE?  STEAL? MURDER? etc?  those are all Commandments in the MORAL LAW and I'm sure you do not believe Christians should be breaking those Commandments.  So then why do you think you have the RIGHT to separate the 4th Commandment from the other 9 (which you still believe you should obey) and break the 4th Commandment????  Especially when THAT is the very Commandment that God said to REMEMBER???  I think you are walking on very dangerous ground.

On 7/30/2021 at 12:32 AM, Jacob Ben Avraham said:

PARASHAH; “V’et’ Chanan” (and I pleaded) 

 

DEUT 3:23-7:11……

 

 

 

     Moshe continues to retell the experiences of his life to “Am Israel” as the end of his life is nearing, He is like a father on his death bed, and causes all of his children to come near and listen to their father’s experiences, or rather “all” of their experiences

 

     “V’et ‘Chanan l’Adonai” begins Moshe, “I pleaded to YHVH…” on the account of entering into the promised land.  As we remember, Moshe in anger and had struck the “Rock” (Selah) and yet, water still came forth because of the mercy of Adonai, yet now Moshe pleads for mercy, the word “chanun” is a form of the Hebrew “mercy”. One Israeli singer has a song which is; “Avi Chanun” (My father who is merciful).  So, Moshe in a way is saying, “I plead for mercy to Adonai” let me see the promised land.

 

     Yet the answer of Adonai was still “No” (Speak no more of this matter).  We are all destined an “x” amount of years on this earth, who knows if, through actions we do, might “speed up” that time, or even “prolong” the time.  King Hezekiah pleaded for more years of life, and he was granted the years, however, during those extra years, there was born to him “Manasseh” who proved to be one of the worst kings in Israel.  Should Hezekiah have asked for those extra years?

 

    We should take advantage of the years that God is giving to us on this planet called “earth” and make the best of them.  If He has called us into ministry, let us perform that which He has called us to do to the best of our ability, doing it unto HIM who is the author of life, and when he calls for us, we will go, without complaining, or ask for “more years”

 

     In this Parashah, we see the review of the Ten Commandments.  What are these all about? They formed the “Ketubah” the contract between Elohim and Israel.  They were given on Har Sinai, directly to the Israelites by HaShem himself, the rest of the 603 mitzvoth were given to Moshe who relayed them unto the people, still, they ALL came from Adonai. 

 

     (4) “Now, therefore, harken O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments which I teach you, for to do them” Moshe was the teacher, taking all that the “Master” charged him to teach, and not “adding to” nor “diminishing” anything, teaching all the details, the “fine print” sort of to say.  Teachers of God’s Word, have a unique calling, it is their life, it is their passion, and they will not rest until they accomplish what they have set off to do.

 

     I AM the LORD thy God: “Anochi Adonai Eloheicha” He is emphasizing “I AM” (I MYSELF AM) “Anochi” a very important statement, telling his people, that is was HE who brought them out of Egypt, and out of slavery.  Two very important things, therefore, He has every right to be their God, and He has every right to be OUR God, since He has taken us out of the “World of Sin” (Egypt) and out from “Spiritual slavery”

 

     “THOU shall not have any other gods before me” since pagan worship was the norm of Egypt, worshiping and bowing down to false “elohim” this was a reminder to Israel that YHVH is different, He is NOT like the false deities of Egypt, He is UNIQUE (Yachid) and He is ONE (Echad).  But when people over-emphasize jobs and work, making money, sports, etc.… making them more important than our worship and attention towards Adonai, those “things” become “other gods” Yes, Adonai is a “Jealous” and “Zealous” God! (El Kanah) and has every right to be so.

 

     “THOU SHALT NOT take the name of YHVH thy God in vain” What is that? It is using our LORD’s holy name in unholy ways, in unholy conversations, making promises using God’s name, like “I swear to God that I’ll…” and then, not fulfilling those promises.  We should use HIS HOLY NAME in worship and praise only.

 

     “KEEP (guard) the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy” Where are we on the sabbath day? We should be in God’s House to worship, praise, and learn from his word through teachers of the Word.  It is a time of rest, and relaxation, a time for family to get together and worship the LORD, even for the house-wives, turn off the ovens and husbands, take them out to eat, or just whip up some sandwiches.

 

Enjoy the Sabbath day, it is the LORD’s to rejoice and relax in.   The Sabbath day has always been Saturday, it was never changed to Sunday (this will probably create some comments).  But EVERY day of the week is a time to study God’s Word and praise Him for all of his blessings.

 

     “HONOR Thy Father and Thy Mother” this goes without explanation. I think it is common sense for children to honor and obey their parents, for they are the ones who raise them up. Yet the Fathers and Mothers have a GREAT responsibility, to raise them in the knowledge of God and his word.  If not, then, they will be responsible for possible “rebels” later one in life.

 

    “THOU shalt not kill; THOU shalt not commit adultery; THOU shalt not steal”.  Ever wonder why these are listed together? Example, if one commits adultery, takes the wife of another in sex, that person is “killing” that relationship and is “stealing” what does not belong to him.  The word “Kill” means “murder” taking an innocent life, it does NOT refer to self-defense or soldiers fighting in a war.  There are many ways of “stealing” some rabbis say that “all sins” are a form of “stealing” not just taking money, coming back late from lunch break is “stealing” time from your employer, telling a lie is “stealing” the confidence one might have had in you, and it is “murdering” that trust.

 

     “THOU shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor” being truthful to someone is very important, and not telling the whole truth, is in fact, telling a lie, and being false to someone who is close to you, again, it is “stealing trust” and “murdering a relationship” through being “false”.

 

     ‘THOU shalt not covet” If Adonai wants you to have what your neighbor has, He will give it to you.  We should be content with the much or the little we have, anyway, when we die, ALL will be left behind. So, no need to covet, it just brings about headaches.  The breaking of this commandment is probablly the root of all sin, because power hungry tyrants want land that doesn t beelong to them, some men want prettier wives, and want the one that belongs to a friend or neighbor, some are not satisfied with their bank accounts and want more than what they can spend, the list can go on, but you understand what I am saying. 

 

     (6) This chapter has the “Shema” one of the most important verses in the Torah; “Shema Israel, YHVH Eloheinu, YHVH Echad” “Shema” (Listen to and heed/do/obey) “Yisrael” we are part of HIS people.  It started out as 12 tribes, sons of Jacob, then it included those Egyptians who chose to follow Moshe out of Egypt.  Adonai did not reject them just because they were Egyptians, they also became part of the nation, through “adoption”.

 

     In the beginning, America consisted of only the indigenous tribes that came from Asia during the Ice Age, but later, European peoples came as immigrants and settlers, when it became a nation in 1776, the United States of America consisted of ALL peoples who were living in the land.  The 12 tribes of Israel became a great “Adat” (congregation, community) now consisting of all believers in Yeshua.

 

      we have been adopted into HIS Chosen family through Yeshua HaMashiach, it pertains to ALL believers.  Adonai is OUR GOD, since we are FAMILY, and He is ONE in Unity (Father, Son, Spirit “Echad” the word for “Adonai Eloheinu” consists of the most sacred letters YHVH, in the ancient Hebrew, those letters symbolize “Behold the hand, Behold the nail”.  So, if we looked at the words “YHVH Eloheinu” from an ancient Hebraic position, we could read; “Behold the hand, Behold the nail, who is G-d that instructs (us) and leads us to (eternal) life through the nail that (penetrated) the hand” I guess that is one way one could look at it.

 

     The word “Elohim” has three meanings;  One is the Tri-unity of G-d, yet if we spell it “elohim” with a small “e” in English, then it means “gods” in plural (usually false gods) yet it also means “ambassadors”or “representatives” of “Adonai-Elohim” Remember that Yeshua, when He addressed the Prushim (Pharisees) said, “No ye not that ye are gods?” (John 10:34; Psalm 82:6)

 

     “You shall love…” (vs 5) Yes, with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.  This includes “teaching” His word to our children, at all times, to others who have the ears and willingness to listen

 

Be the person in our house, Be the person “walking with us on the “way” at bed time and at morning time, the time for God’s Word and teaching it is at ALL TIMES, provided of course that the other person wished to hear it.   God’s Word is to be shared and taught, NEVER to be forced upon another!

 

     Binding upon the hands and frontlets between our eyes, using Tefillin are symbolic in that God’s Word is to be in our minds and put into action using our hands, in performing mitzvoth (good works)

 

     Writing them and putting God’s Word on our door posts and gates using “mezuzot” is symbolic to let people know that “living here is a family who honors God and His Word”

 

     Moshe reminds the people again and again to “Keep the commandments of the LORD thy God and his testimonies and statutes” in many verses.  Just keep in mind that “keeping the commandments does not “save a soul” Salvation comes only from accepting Yeshua (Jesus) as LORD and Savior, that and that ONLY saves a person from eternal condemnation.  Obedience to the commandments comes “after” as a sign that we are now part of HIS family, and we now have new desires to follow HIM in HIS ways.  There is “Yeshuah Kadosh” (Righteous Salvation) and “Mitzvoth Kadoshim” (righteous works) both are separate yet both go together.  The later is a result of the first.

 

Very true that no one can WORK their way into Heaven :).  But if we are truly Born Again, our WORKS will PROVE it...as Jesus Himself said, "If ye love Me, Keep My Commandments."  The 10 Commandments are just as binding today as the day God gave them.  I don't know any Christian who thinks it is OK to LIE, STEAL or MURDER.

6 hours ago, OneLight said:

Shush girl!!!  My little country town is starting to feel like the city cause of statements like that!  People from the cities have been moving up here since a magazine said it was one of the best small towns in the US.  Keep the country a secret!!! 

I know what you mean...but just need to help people wake up

17 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

I've been quiet for a while, reading through the topic and meditating upon any words I have to share. It seems fitting to write about what I have experienced and witnessed for the scriptures are silent on this matter, but the love, mercy, and faithfulness of the Lord is declared from the rooftops. This will be a long read by necessity. 

I was a young child (7 years old) when I first despaired of this life. No matter where I went, all I heard were lies spoken by deceitful lips. On account of the horrors I witnessed in this world, I would lie sleepless at night and plead with the God I didn't know to have mercy and destroy me. The earth was a barren place filled with lies and I could bear it no longer.

I was 11 when I first attempted suicide, a botched attempt to slash the radial artery in my wrist. This was the first of many suicide attempts which met with failure over the years.

I took a bottle of my mother's pills, but she came home from work early that day (minutes after I took them) and discovered the deed; I sought to jump off a cliff and end my life on the rocks far below, but my feet were rooted to the rock and I couldn't move no matter how hard I tried. After I relented and decided to return home, I found that I could move my feet again. 

When I was of age, I looked to the United States Army as a means to an end. War was coming and this was a chance to end my life in a manner different from suicide... surely there was a bullet with my name on it. I specialized in a combat role but was prevented from deploying to the hot zone during my term of service. I volunteered time and again but my commanding officer denied my request every time, designating me as "indispensable" to the mission of his unit. I was going nowhere. 

After the military --- I learned a great deal about weaponry while I was in --- I set out to end my life with a handgun over, and over again. The first time I pointed the muzzle of a gun at my head, it was a two-hour ordeal of straining with all of my might to pull a trigger that wouldn't budge. I cried out in agony to the God I didn't know, begging Him to let me die because I didn't deserve to live. 

I heard a voice speak, saying, "You shall not end your life; it is forbidden to you. Do not be afraid." 

I didn't understand. I wept and cried out, "But why? Why is this forbidden to me?"

A vision opened and I found myself wandering alone in the darkness of a wilderness. It was freezing cold and I shivered; I burned with fever and was very ill; I was so weak that I couldn't take another step. I had such a long, long way to go and knew that I would never reach my destination under my own power. I fell to the ground and cried out, "I return this life to Your hand, for I am not fit to live it. I have failed You! I have failed You!"

I looked toward the distant horizon and discerned the shape of mountains rising into the night sky; these were my journey's end. It was then that I witnessed the most marvelous thing, unlike anything I had seen before. A light greater than the sun dawned across those rugged mountains, filling my eyes and drying the tears on my face. The cold and darkness fled, and I felt renewed and strong again. I rose to my feet and gazed in wonder, saying, "How can this be?"

The voice spoke again, saying, "Do not be afraid, for the day comes." 

Many years later, my seemingly aimless path led me to a stranger who lived alone in a mountain wilderness. I endured much by their side and the time came when I became very ill. I suffered for two years and when I could no longer bear with dying slowly in such a way, I determined to end what life remained by my own hand. It was hell on earth, my friends... I was on the verge of death when I pointed the muzzle of another gun at my head. The bullet would be a mercy compared to what I had endured for so long. 

Before I pulled the trigger I cried out to the Lord whom I knew, "I return this life to Your hand, for I am not fit to live it. I have failed You! I have failed You!" I pulled the trigger. 

Only the bullet never fired. In that moment I witnessed the most marvelous thing, unlike anything I had seen nor heard before. The Spirit of the Lord was upon me and I was blinded by the glory of His presence; His coming chased away the shadows of death and I was struck speechless, incapable of uttering a single word. The day had come just as He declared all those years ago.  

These words are for the ones who despair of living, believing all hope is lost, for it certainly seemed that way to me in the wilderness of those mountains. I had no reason to live, believing myself a failure in every possible way. I had failed Jesus Christ, who chose me from this world several years after my military service concluded. I didn't know Him at the time of that vision but I most assuredly knew Him when the vision was fulfilled. 

On the other side of despair, there is hope. The Lord is merciful, He is love, and He is both faithful and true. Set your eyes upon Him, for He never turns His face away from the afflicted.  

Very thankful you were never successful!

5 hours ago, Marathoner said:

You're quite right about the endless argumentation, John. I've shared passages of scripture wherein the apostle Paul explains how we died with Christ and because we died and were buried with Him, the law no longer has dominion over us. The dominion of the law ends with death. The ordinances and those letters graven in stone passed away with our Lord's crucifixion.

Ah, but I've also pointed out that at no time was the Sabbath day changed to a different day of the week, speaking only of Sabbath observance. Because we who are in Christ are no longer under the law nor bound to observe the ordinances, this is a matter of liberty. Let no one forbid any from observing the Sabbath day, and let no one condemn those who do not observe the Sabbath day.

As others have shared in this topic, the above sums up the apostle's words from different passages of the NT letters. I've shared these passages many times before on the forum, so there's no need to copy and paste them again.  

Marathoner, do you separate the 4th Commandment from the other 10 then, or do you thin it's OK to break all 10 of the Commandments?  

The 10 Commandments are the MORAL LAW not the CEREMONIAL LAW.  It was the Ceremonial Law that was nailed to the cross when Jesus died.  The MORAL LAW is just as in tact today as it was the day God gave it to us.

I really don't think you believe it's OK to murder, steal, lie and commit adultery.  So why do you believe it's OK to break the Sabbath?  They are all part of the SAME LAW.

8 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

There are people who use the teachings of Paul to convince themselves that it's okay to sin. It's not.

And so to this thread: One of the Ten Commandments is that we should rest on the sabbath. I believe it is good advice. As for which day a person chooses as the sabbath, it doesn't matter to me.

But it does matter to God. "Remember the 7th Day to keep it holy..."

9 hours ago, Waggles said:

Wow that is an extraordinary interpretation of NT scripture.

Sorry do not agree with you on this. 

Sundays are quite OK.

Also what is a Saturday sabbath but a ceremonial holy day !!

That is where you are confused.  There is the MORAL LAW and the CEREMONIAL LAW.  The SABBATH is a part of the MORAL LAW, along with all the other 9 Commandments.  It's not part of the CEREMONIAL LAW.  The CEREMONIAL LAW was nailed to the Cross when Jesus died for us.  Everything in the Ceremonial law pointed to Jesus and when He came, TYPE met ANTI-Type and that was the END of the Ceremonial Law.  The reason we don't offer lambs now is because JESUS IS THE LAMB if we accept Him as our Savior.

Waggles, do you believe you should keep the other 9 Commandments?  or do you believe Christians are free to break them as well?

9 hours ago, Waggles said:

No you are interpreting my posts from your point of view. I have not condemned Moses nor the Law -

BUT the NT is not about Moses and the Law in the requirements of the Levitical priesthood and Temple worship.

The moral principles and moral intent of the Law still applies to Spirit-filled Christians but not in in ordinances written on tablets of stone. Thus we are free to worship on Sundays and remember the sacrifice and mercy freely given by God on our behalf.

Here it is not the particular day of the week that is important, but the equivalent moral purpose of putting aside one day to have fellowship with God and with our brothers and sisters. 

Also the indwelling Holy Spirit and praying in tongues is the sabbath - the rest - the refreshing. 

Waggles, the Sabbath isn't an ORDINANCE.  The ORDINANCES were all the things having to do with the  Ceremonial Laws.

The Sabbath was "written in stone" symbolic that it NEVER CHANGES.  Why is it that so many Christians today believe it's OK to break the 4th Commandment but it's wrong to break 1-3 and 5-10 of the 10 Commandments?  They are ALL from God HIMSELF, written with HIS FINGER on STONE...and the one everyone is FORGETTING is the ONLY ONE that said REMEMBER.  That really should make us think.

5 hours ago, walla299 said:

I've had 3 businesses over the years . . . same thing. You can't always be in church on Sunday - at least not if you're on call and are a diesel mechanic. Don't get me started on the oil field side of things. Ugh. Life doesn't work that way. I do what I can to avoid work on Sunday, but there are times when it cannot be avoided.

On Daniel: I was thinking more about when Daniel and crew asked their keeper to test them on their diet because they didn't want to eat from the king's table and defile themselves. They didn't have that much choice about things. Rather than go the rebel route I believe Daniel used the wisdom and good sense God gave him . . . test us and see if we don't look better in a few weeks . . . and God blessed that. It really was a win-win for the guard chief - his head wouldn't be in danger, and Daniel and crew didn't have to defile themselves. He did what he could to obey the Lord and He honored that. 

Honestly, (and please don't think I'm being critical, it's just my honest belief...) I believe that if God commands us to do something, and especially if He says REMEMBER, we better not forget it.  We better find a way to do it.

 

5 minutes ago, Waggles said:

I also love the Sabbath - a day to put aside the demands of the world and to worship God as Father and Saviour. And this I do on Sundays.

The early Christians of the first church had already left Saturdays to the Jews and were meeting on the first day of the week. 

God also wrote scripture through Paul -

Colosians 2:16  Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 
17  These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 

Stick with scripture.

Waggles, I am sticking with Scripture :).  Colosians 2:16 has NOTHING to do with the SABBATH and everything to do with the CEREMONIAL HOLY DAYS...look in the 10 Commandments... you won't find anything there about FOOD and DRINK...but if you look up about the Ceremonial Days, there is lots about FOOD & DRINK there.  So you want to be careful not to confuse the two :).

1 minute ago, walla299 said:

Interesting . . . I've spent most of my working life on shifts that included working weekends (including <gasp> Sunday), holidays, and all kinds of strange hours. Sometimes things like that can't be avoided in real life.  I love the Lord too, but He's sovereign and He's never given me grief about having to work some days rather than be in church. Such is life in this fallen world.

Please don't insinuate that anyone loves the Lord more or less because they have the privilege of being able to go to church on a given day. The church I left basically slammed the door on anyone who didn't have a Monday-Friday, 8am-5-pm job. Life is too short for that.

I understand Walla, that it's not always easy to get the Sabbath off. I am a big believer in being in business for yourself, then YOU get to call the shots :). But, I do not believe that God is going to tell us to do something that is impossible for us to do.  Whatever He asks us to do, He will make away.  Sometimes He might be testing us, and see if we are really willing to give up whatever it might be that is stopping us from obeying Him. 

Kind of like when Daniel and the 3 Worthy's were in Babylon and commanded to bow down to the idol.  That was something they had been raised not to do, and they knew it would be disobeying God....so they stood firm....and were rewarded with being put into the fiery furnace....and God blessed them and they witnessed for Him.  Whatever God asks us to do, we just need to determine to do it, and ask God for strength and courage to do it...and DO IT.

1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said:

So you believe that only Saturday can be the sabbath?

Yes, the Bible calls the other 6 days "WORKING DAYS".  There is only ONE SABBATH and God Himself designated it to be the 7th Day.

1 minute ago, walla299 said:

. . . and it looks like the "fight" is still going on. 

I recently left a church that got to legalistic about the "Sabbath." That's all I'm going to say on that.

For the rest: If you want to keep Sabbath and feel like that's what the Lord wants you to do - great! By all means do so. It's also fine if you are not lead to do so. The choice is left to the individual.

 

You are right...God has given us all the FREE CHOICE whether or not we want to obey Him.

He does say, "IF ye love Me, KEEP My Commandments."  That is why I keep the Sabbath....because I love Him.

I would really like to encourage everyone to move to the Country if you possible can.  Everyone knows that Crime is escalating in the Cities.  Food prices are going to be going higher. The more you can grow for yourself, the better!  We live on just 7 acres of land, but we raise blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, peaches, apples and pears....as well as a big garden.  Home grown food is the BEST :).  

Just now, johnthebaptist said:

What would stop a person from printing a calendar that placed Wednesday as the last day of the week?

Nothing....that has been done....but you can ask scientists or whoever....and everyone will tell you that no days were ever lost.  Just as God has protected the Bible during the Dark Ages, He has protected the Sabbath.  There has ALWAYS been Sabbath keepers....they have always been in the minority....but that shouldn't surprise us...the TRUTH is rarely in the MAJORITY.

1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said:

So if a new calendar company arose and made Wednesday the last day of the week, and the whole world came to accept this calendar, would Wednesday be the sabbath?

No, there has never been a loss of the weekly cycle.  For a while some countries had 10 day working weeks....it didn't change anything because God has protected the weekly cycle and He always will.  

I really appreciate your posts, Sower...we are of kindred spirit!

9 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I've seen people argue endlessly about whether the sabbath should be Saturday or Sunday. The sabbath is supposed to be the last day of the week, and if you look at a calendar, that would be Saturday. On the other hand, when I get up on Monday morning, it feels like a new week.

Have you ever noticed that it's the ONLY ONE of all 10 Commandments that God said, "REMEMBER"???....and it's the ONLY ONE of all 10 Commandments that most of the CHRISTIAN WORLD has FORGOTTEN.  God knows the end from the beginning and He KNEW that of all the 10 Commandments, THIS is the ONE that the MAJORITY would FORGET about.  And that is why He warned us 6000 years ago to REMEMBER.

Does it matter which day we keep?  Apparently God thinks it does.  He could just as easily have said that we were free to choose any day of the weekly cycle to worship Him on, as long as we pick one....but He didn't do that...HE picked the 7th Day and made it HOLY.  He said, 

 

Quote

"REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it Holy.  Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work.  But the 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.  In it thou shalt not do any work..."  Exodus 20:8-11.

And keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with the Jews.  When God gave Moses the 10 Commandments, there were no Jews.  He gave the Law to HIS PEOPLE, who at THAT TIME was the Israelites...and later on it was the Jews, and TODAY, it's YOU AND ME.

I LOVE the Sabbath! I've been keeping it all my life and I'm 60 years old.  I SO LOOK FORWARD after a busy week, to that 24 hour period where I don't do any work or any business.  It's not a burden! Far from it!  It's like getting the spiritual battery recharged for the next week.  

15 minutes ago, Aimes said:

Having been one who's battled depression for most of my life I can say the one thought that kept me from ever following through with it was the fear that my soul would be damned and I would be eternally separated from the Father. So I can say that even in the darkest, most painful, most desperate of times I still took thought on where I would spend eternity. I'm not saying my case is the same for all, as many make a rash choice without thinking. 

I've also grown in my understanding of our Father's compassion and grace. I leave final judgment to Him for those who did choose to end their earthly suffering by their own hands. I know some who loved Jesus with all of their hearts but this world and it's pain was just simply too much. I'd hate to think the Father completely dismisses them for doing something quickly and not having time to repent. If their faith was placed in Jesus can we really say that they suffered an eternal damnation to hell? While I don't believe in OSAS, I do believe that we can rest in our faith and that it isn't stripped from us for every mistake we make. 

So very thankful you hung on!  

27 minutes ago, Alive said:

In consideration of what is said above, a few things need to be mentioned.

First, we need to have a proper biblical understanding of what it means to have been Redeemed by the Blood of the lamb of God, to have been born from above and placed into Christ by the Father--by the Father's will. Once we see that and understand also that such individuals have been gifted with Christ's Life---Eternal Life and that such ones are Hidden with Christ in God---NOW. This is clear in scripture.

Then we also understand the the Blood of Christ washed and washes us of all sin(s).

All of those that are in Christ while still in these fleshly bodies sin...all do and do so frequently in all manner of ways---fleeting thought, longer term thoughts and deeds.

All are covered by the Blood. We are not always cognizant of our sins and there is not that conscious 'repentance' present. Some more obvious sins such as being unjustly angry at another are not immediately confessed or repented of. This is part of the human existence. The Blood covers them all---its Grace. His Grace for His Elect sons of God. If an individual is driving in a car and has an impure thought and is immediately killed---no repentance---the Blood is efficacious. Always. This is His Grace. It must also be understood that there is nothing that we can do to earn His favor. If that were so, then God would not have had to take our place and be judged in our place.

For those in Christ, there is forgiveness without repentance. Sancification is a process and God is Gracious for the entire process, which is different for every son of God.

We need to know just how far short of God's righteous requirement each of us is. Our flesh and what proceeds from that flesh is abhorrent to God. This is why God has imputed to us Christ's Righteousness and why we have fellowship with the Father and why we are able to approach the throne for Grace in time of need.

We that are in Christ are perfectly SAVED.

Well, that is another topic  ~ Once Saved - Always Saved ~ and I don't believe it that one, either....but I don't want to derail the thread so I'll leave it at that for now :).

19 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said:

I have several chonic pain conditions.  For example, I have had full blown fibromyalgia since I was 18.  There was not even a name for it yet. On top of that, 25 years ago because of an injury in an accident I developed trigemenal neuralgia.  It's considered to be the most painful medical condition that exists and is nicknamed the suicide disease because of the high rate of suicides for this condition before there were any medications for it. Unfortunately I have paradoxical effects from them and it makes it worse.  I can understand why someone would rather be dead than live like this.  In my case, God's will not mine.  But, I imagine if someone had no religious beliefs and were in such pain.....

Anyway my post about my one day at a time system in the thread I posted the link to earlier I hope is helpful to believers. 

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Yes Chicken coop2, I too, understand why non-Christians see suicide as an option when they are in so much pain and other terrible conditions....when there is no hope, what else is there?