RV_Wizard

Wrong, as usual. Augustine was the author of the Filioque, that heresy which eventually cut off the West from the Orthodox Church. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all facets of one God. Augustine taught "Thus the Father loses what makes Him Father and the Son has a characteristic added to His hypostasis, making Him superior to the Father. Therefore, in Augustine’s way of thinking the Father loses what makes Him Father, and the Son has a power added to His hypostasis." Augustine also made up the nonsense of infant baptism and the lie that baptism washes away the sins of man. CHRIST takes away the sins of man. Baptism declares our unity in the death and resurrection of Christ. We are saved by grace... period. We aren't redeemed in some make believe place called Purgatory. We are redeemed by the Redeemer. The Catholic church actually forbid their followers from reading the Bible, which continued through the Middle Ages. What better way to teach a heresy than to deny access to the Bible? It's not surprising that you quote heretics to promote your personal distortions of the Bible. You are, after all, the one who quoted Satan's argument to Eve that on the day they ate from the tree they would not surely die. After all, Satan was a powerful angel, right? You can set aside that little issue of being cast out of Heaven and damned for eternity just as easily as you set aside any Bible verses that contradict you. That's Luther's problem. The Bible is the source of religious truth. Paul warned us not to trust the teaching of ANYONE who would add to the Scriptures or subtract from them. Augustine was neither a prophet or a disciple. His additions to the Bible were his own, NOT the inspired words of God. That's another title he made up for himself. Christ told us "There are none righteous; no, not one." There are no human saints, only sinners. Christ is the head of the church, not some pope. Confess your sins to God, not to some strange man. Pray to the Father, not to intercessors. Mary is not part of the deity and cannot hear your prayers. Only God can hear your prayers. Matthew23: 8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Whom should we believe, Augustine or Christ? Those who add to the Bible or detract from it cannot, by definition, believe in the Bible as written, now can they? Given the multiple heresies, some I have cited and many more I have not, it is not possible for your statement to be true. You hold the teachings of men above the word of God. For that reason we will never agree, and I will never give validation to your claims.

Citing two people who did NOT believe the Bible as written DOES NOT change the fact that the six day creation was considered to be official church doctrine until some addition dissent began in the 17th and 18th centuries. As you know, I have documented this fact. Not surprisingly, your heroes were considered heretics by the church for their refusal to accept God's word as written. Origen may have been one of the most influential, prolific (when it comes to writing), and devout Christians of his day, but two centuries after his death, Christendom retroactively declared him a heretic. Specifically, according to The Guardian, the Second Council of Constantinople deemed him a heretic in 553, after Origen had been in his grave for a couple of centuries. source Augustine, as I have shown before, is the founder of many heresies. These include: (1) the Filioque, (2) original sin, (3) the redefining of baptism, (4) predestination and irresistible grace, (5) the disavowal of free-will, (6) confusion in understanding the differences between essence and hypostases and the energies of the Holy Trinity, (7) theophanies and created energies, and, (8) the validation of heretical baptism. source So it is not surprising that you, who spend your days misrepresenting the Bible, would be drawn to two heretics who did much the same thing.

The Bible refers to them as lights, and for them to be for signs and seasons, for days and for years. The creation and the destruction of the stars are also spoken of many times. Psalms 8:3 speaks of the moon and stars being the work of God’s fingers. Mark 13:25 among other verses mentions their fall. As I said, the visible stars would certainly be for signs and seasons. The stars invisible to the eye aren’t mentioned. Whether other galaxies came to be at the same time or not isn’t really relevant. It is unknowable.

It IS a possibility, but it could NOT result in a male child. Females do not have a Y chromosome.

Really? Why do you think they didn't tell God? After all, God said He created the world in six days. How is it that the creator of the universe didn't know how He did it? How does it feel to claim to know something God does not?

I, of course, proved otherwise; that until the 17th century virtually NOBODY in the church disputed the six day creation. You keep saying "revision," but you have yet to provide A SINGLE WORD of revised text. The 1611 King James Bible proves conclusively that your claims of revision are 100% false. However you ARE lying, because I AM NOT an Adventist. In fact, I don't remember ever meeting a Baptist minister who denied the six day creation. Your claims are a perversion of the Scripture, supported ONLY by taking portions of Scripture out of context. Case in point: you quote Genesis 1:11, but refuse to acknowledge Genesis 1:12. You are in a minority am0ng Christians. Again, more dishonesty. The Bible teaches a six day creation, which is supported again by the fourth commandment. As everyone else knows, GOD HIMSELF carved into stone tablets: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Many things in the Bible have meanings on several levels. Whether one loves the creature rather than the Creator or the creation rather than the Creator, the idolatry is the same. Putting the science of man above the word of God is idolatry. Using science to discredit the Bible is serving a false god. As Christians, we should know that the word of God is the only definable truth in the world. The earth and the universe will pass away, but God's word will NEVER pass away.

While I personally agree with that, there are some in these forums who would contend that anything in the Bible contradicted by science cannot be literally true. When asked about the virgin birth or the resurrection of Christ, they refuse to comment. However, they do openly doubt some of the nine other resurrections in the Bible. So, to be logically consistent, one must either trust the supremacy of the Bible over natural law or disregard all of it because natural law is violated over 300 times in the Bible.

One of us posts complete passages to show context, one posts single verses and pretends that the following verse, in context, completely destroys their argument. The Bible clearly states that the Lord created the heaven, the earth, and all living things in six days. You claim that the earth created life over billions of years. Anyone with a brain knows that both cannot be true. Either one is true or both are false. That's why anyone who professes to believe both is either mentally disturbed or outright lying. You have a long track record of false statements, from claiming that the writings of Moses are 19th century revisions by the Seventh Day Adventists to claiming that the evenings and mornings of the first six days of creation were not real days.... because they didn't allow for evolution. Any verse of Scripture that contradicts what you choose to believe you pretend doesn't exist. When asked which of the miracles in the Bible you actually believe, you can't cite a single one. If you were put on trial for being a believer, do you think there would be enough evidence for a conviction?

Biology tells us that a virgin birth could not have happened. While today we can perform artificial insemenation, such procedures were not available 2,000 years ago. In the improbable case of two eggs causing a fertilization, the result would be a female. The virgin birth is foundational doctrine. Which do you trust; the Bible or biology?

ON DAY SIX. NOT over millions of years. Man also was created on day six. I n0tice you NEVER acknowledge the next verse. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. You can't acknowledge it because it exposes your lie for what it is. What about the fishes? And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Did you cut THIS verse out of your Bible, Mr. False Teacher? It is YOU who doesn't understand Paul...Simon. "All lies in jest to the man who hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." Or, in your case, reads. Your entire argument is based on misquoting the Bible. You fool NOBODY. All anyone has to do is read the text and they can tell that you are intentionally misrepresenting what is written.

You aren't God, and you DO lie. Romans 1 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Consider this (other readers, since some people cannot be reached through God's word. They do not value it. “Adam and Eve are no longer the first humans, and original sin goes out the window. This does irreparable damage to the biblical redemption narrative. The Bible says that death came into the world because of man’s sin (Romans 5:12) and that all of creation labors under a curse because of sin (Romans 8:22). Scripture also says that Christ is the last Adam, come to redeem us from the sin brought into the world through the first man, Adam (1 Corinthians 15:22, 45).” “If Adam were a mythical figure, which is what evolution demands, even in a Christianized form, the entire parallel between the two Adams and the kinsman redeemer concept is destroyed. By advocating evolution, theistic evolutionists are undermining the very tenets of Christianity.” “Jesus, when explaining marriage to the Sadducees, referred to Adam and Eve as existing from the beginning of creation (Mark 10:6). According to those who accept millions of years, Adam and Eve only existed after billions and millions of years of death: this makes Jesus either ignorant or a liar.” source The Scriptures are not on my side. I am on the side of the Scriptures. You, sir, are wrong. Your claims are false. Your "quotes" are distorted and out of context. It's glaringly obvious to anyone who can read that you are quote mining the Bible to discredit God for the creation.

No, it absolutely, positively does not despite your repeated false claims to the contrary. The Bible ABSOLUTELY says the evening and morning were the first day, the second, and all through the sixth. The God rested on the seventh day. God HIMSELF said that in six days He made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day. We believe God, not you. There you go again, taking the Bible out of context to try and discredit it. Answer this. Is the beginning of humanity the beginning? Jesus said "From the beginning." He did NOT say from the first moment or on the first day. You seem to distort the Bible with every post. Do you not understand it, or are you intentionally misrepresenting it? LIE! And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. You want to take the glory from God and give it to dirt. Here's another phrase you repeatedly pretend doesn't exist. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. LIE! Name one thing I've added to Scripture. I am the one who quotes Scripture. You are the one who takes verses out of context, ignores anything that doesn't conform with what you claim, and continue to falsely claim that belief in the Bible as written is somehow a new concept. You continuously use the same discredited, disproven claims. It's an absolute waste of time. Conversing with you accomplishes nothing. It just gives you a platform to spew your false doctrine.

No, it's a fact. The Bible says God created the world in six days. Evolution claims millions of years. Anyone who thinks that these are compatible is either disturbed or lying to himself. No, I've shown that you are amazingly dishonest. The beginning doesn't mean the first second only. The beginning is the beginning of creation, the beginning of life, and the beginning of time. Jesus said that God made man and woman from the beginning. NOTHING you say can trump Jesus. You are just continuing your attempts to discredit the Bible. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. Loopholes? YOU are the one taking phrases and words out of context to try and conform with your twisted, non-biblical beliefs. Really? There is an entire chapter describing how. Have you ever read the Bible, or do you just rely on atheist websites? Lying a thousand times doesn't make it true. quoting Scripture is NOT revising Scripture. God Himself said that He created the heaven and the earth in six days. You seem to think that people will believe you over both the Father and the Son. You are a false teacher. You are spewing falsehoods and distortions of Scripture. It's not just a different interpretation. It's a deliberate misrepresentation. And the lying continues. As everyone here knows, the six day creation was ALWAYS part of church teaching until some began to drift away from it in the 17th and 18th centuries.

I've said it for 20 years, and I've said it to you at least a dozen times. Although, my statement is, "Science can neither validate nor invalidate the supernatural." Here's another like it: "Science is the study of the creation; religion is the study of the Creator." Then, of course, this one: "Anyone who claims to believe in the Bible and evolution has a firm understanding of neither." How many times are you going to tell that lie? First of all, the idea that science can invalidate ANYTHING in the Bible shows that you put your faith in the creation above the Creator. Second of all, the genealogies in the Bible clearly indicate a young earth, since it shows the timeline from Adam to Christ, and also the five days preceding Adam's creation. Third, it has been proven to you conclusively that belief in the creation as written has been the teaching of the church from the beginning, and wasn't challenged until the 17th century. Since the creation story was doubtless handed down, father to son previously, that's 57 centuries before old earth teaching ever caught on. Revision? No, you're straight up lying and we all know it. God is never wrong. Your unwillingness to believe Him is on you. God told us how He created the world. YOU are the one twisting partial verses out of context to claim they say things they do not say. You repeated say that the earth brought forth all living creatures, but you refuse to admit that God commanded it and that it it all happened in one day. Cattle, for example, were created fully formed on day six. The creation was completed on day six. Dinosaurs would have been created on day six. They pre-date man by hours, not millions of years. Genesis 1:1 is the beginning of creation. Genesis 1:3 was the beginning of light. Genesis 1:9 was the beginning of dry land. Genesis 1:11 was the beginning of grasses and herbs. Genesis 1:16 was the beginning of the sun and moon. Genesis 1:24 is the beginning of animal life. Genesis 1:27 is the beginning of man. Genesis 2:21 is the beginning of marriage. Do you see a pattern there? The beginning of something is NOT the beginning of everything. The creation was a six day process. I've asked you before. Is there ANYTHING in the Bible you believe as written?

That happened on the sixth day of creation, when life on the earth (life in the sea came the day before) was first created. That is the beginning. Animals were created the same day as man.

I’ve said all along that science can neither validate nor invalidate the supernatural. You are the one trying to twist the Bible to fit your own agenda.

Really? Jesus was a young earth creationists. Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (Also in Matthew 19:4) Mark 13:9 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Clearly, Jesus believed in Genesis 1 as written. Jesus said in John 5, 45-47: Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Luke, the historian, traced the lineage of Jesus back to Adam, so clearly he believed in the creation story. Paul explained that through Adam's sin, death came into the world. Romans 5:12=14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Your claim that YEC adds new doctrine is 100% proven to be a lie, since all this has been shown to you several times. God said He created the world in six days (Exodus, 20:11). You refuse to believe Him. That's your right. However, when you are here trying to teach others that God did NOT create the world as He said He did, THAT makes you a false teacher.

Hey, that's my line. Glad to see you admit it.

Have you learned anything about references and quotes, yet? Have you figured out yet that words can have both literal and figurative meanings? Editors changed the previous translation of Genesis 3:16 which said, "Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." The verse has now been changed to read, "Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you." Here are the sixteen whole verses that do not exist in the new (per)versions.: Matthew 17:21: "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." Matthew 18:11: "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." Matthew 23:14: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation." Mark 7:16: "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:46: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 11:26: "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses." Mark 15:28: "And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors." Luke 17:36: "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left." John 5:4: "For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had." Acts 8:37: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 15:34: "Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still." Acts 24:7: "But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands," Acts 28:29: "And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves." Romans 16:24: "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." I John 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." It's not the same message if you delete entire verses. When one either adds to or subtracts from the Word of God, the resulting translation no longer represents the truth of God. KJV: For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. ISV: "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life. You REALLY can't see the differences? All the angels are unique. All humans are unique. Jesus is Not God's unique son, He is God's only begotten son. Exodus 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Did God fly the Israelites out on the wings of eagles, or did God use illustrative language? Because you can't understand how allusions and quotes work, this entire conversation is a waste of time.

Are you even following this conversation? Your comments make even less sense than usual. We're discussing Genesis and you're talking about the disciples writing to the Gentiles in Greek. Moses INTERPRETING Genesis? He was the author.

So copyright laws are just another category you don't get. The KJV is NOT copyrighted. All newer versions are. You can't get a copyright without making significant changes to the original. Revelations 22: 18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Modern versions of the Bible have made significant enough changes to the Bible to be able to register copyrights. They do this because there is a lot of profit in printing Bibles. Your entire argument is based on these modern corrupted versions. You cannot be educated on this topic, apparently.

Did you figure that one out by yourself? NOBODY ever claimed he did.

Read them for yourself in the KJV. No need to post them here. Learn something about the men you so cavalierly libel. I don't remember who the poster was, but they could read and write Hebrew and translated for themselves. They stopped posting to you after your repeated nonsense about the "original Hebrew," to which you claim special knowledge greater than translators. By the way, one of the KJV translators, Lancelot Andrewes, was fluent in at least 21 languages. How many do you speak? Yes, too bad you don't understand what Jeremiah said, because you are reading your agenda into the Bible instead of drawing the true meaning from the context. Wow, you really DON'T know much about this topic do you? Please educate yourself. I proved that all new versions have copyrights, which proves conclusively that they are changed from the original, preserved word of God. You refuse to learn and cannot be educated, You bring your favorite heresy into any Bible conversation. I'm done with this topic. The point of the thread was a mature creation, bot ruin/reconstruction heresy.

We were discussing interpretations of Genesis, not the New Testament or the apostles. I said that very thing in an earlier post. Read it and learn. Really? Since when? I was talking about the distortions released in the 1970's and late based on corrupted copies from Alexandria, Egypt. You are the only person in this thread to mention YEC. Further, you are the only person promoting the lie that YEC is new doctrine. Even the ruin/reconstruction crowd believe in the Bible as written AFTER Genesis 1:2.