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Bush hasn't yet been elected to the Presidency.

Let us make sure this usurper of the White House is deposed along with his ungodly policies and acts, his warmongering and murders, his lies to the American people, and his servitude of mammon..

We have met the producers of 'weapons of mass destruction' and "THEY", unfortunatley, is "US".....

Ok I am confused.

When I was growing up I was under the impression you had to be a native born American to become President. That is what they taught us in school. I read in a news article that you only have to be a citizen for 14 years before becoming eligable for the Presidental office. Which is true here? If the latter is true then there is a chance that Arnold will become President one day.

BOTH are true.

You must be a native norn American AND have resided in US for at least 14 years prior to being elected. You must also be at least 35 years old.

For example, suppose a child is born to an Ambassador of the United States while he is stationed in Lebanon. Suppose he is raised in Lebanon, educated in Lebanon and resides most of his adult life in lebanon. Suppose further, this person be at age 37 finally decides he has had enough of Lebanon, returns to the US for 2 years and wishes to run for President.

He meets the cirteria as a native born American.

He meets the age requirements.

He does NOT meet the residency requirements of at least 14 years.

See here:

http://www.lawforkids.org/QA/Other/Other76.cfm

Although Schwarzeneggar is over 35 and has resided here for at least 14 years, he remains a naturalized citizen and naturalized citizens cannot hold the office of President.

Nope,

I just read my Bible and conclude that God does not condemn homosexuals as you alledge He does.

Do you bounce around condemning homosexuals from site to site despite Jesus Christ nor the Bible condemning them or their behavior?

And if so WHY?

No problem.

You will also find that Idolsmasher and Dr Luke's comments have some limited kind of value in the overall Christian kind of thing only after you get past their own ridiculous biases and the fact that their remarks SHOULD have been deleted by Worthy Boards but weren't....

That said it is the Russians who may have taken up the right and Christian cause and not America in recent months, since Russia has been sane enough to challenge Bush's open murder and aggression in Iraq and has embraced orthodox Chritianity once again....while Bush and America continues apostate....

Stay tuned....

But this Christian does not consider Idolsmasher or Dr Luke anyone to be admired or followed...but rather panned, for their open opposition to Christ's words and Gospel....

Continuing....

At one time it was also a FELONY for a black person to refuse to give up his seat on a bus to a white man.

At one time, it was also a FELONY to burn your draft card and refuse to serve corporate America as cannon fodder in VietNam.

At one time, it was a FELONY for a woman to cast her vote.

At one time, it was a FELONY to take communion with alcoholic wine.

At one time, it was a FELONY for an 18 year old to try to vote despite dying for his country in the military.

At one time, it was a FELONY for anyone who did not own land in America to speak his mind or vote.

At one time, it was a FELONY for anyone but white landowning males to participate in our government.

At one time, it was a FELONY for men and women to MARRY if they were not consider to be of the same RACE...

At one time, it was considered a FELONY for people to marry if they were not of the same DENOMINATION.

The problem with the article is that it does not take into account the clear statement of Scripture that the Isaiah prophecies from 750BC and onward were given directly about the Assyrian Empire and Damascus of his day, which ruled over Palestine and Jerusalem...and not to some future Israel Syrian conflict.

Likewise, Zechariah's accounts are given during or immediately after the Babylonian captivity in about 540BC and again speak to a more immediate understanding of Assyria and Damascus role in the history of the time THEN and not NOW.

Most scholars do not see any connection between the Isaiah passages and Zechariah passages except that they are both apocalyptic in content concerning Israel's (to them) future.

It is most probable that with the subsequent destruction of the Assyrian Empire by the Babylonians, and the Babylonians by the Greeks, these passages were fulfilled completely some 2500 years ago and have no future connotations, connections nor parallels to any modern Israel-Syrian conflicts whatsoever.

So many Republicans....

So few asteroids.....

The Old Covenant between Abraham God and Abraham's 'seed' (Jesus Christ) has been completely fulfilled and replaced by the New Covenant established by Christ's broken Body and shed Blood.

And no believer in Christ is obligated to the Old Covenant or to the Law of Moses.

This was the unanimous consensus of all the Jewish Apostles that convened in Jerusalem to answer the Gentile question. (Acts 15)

Paul, in Romans, spoke even to Jews who accepted Christ, that the Old Covenant and even the Law was but a 'schoolmaster' until the school student could become a full adult and no longer need such teachers.

Paul's point is, that although the Old Testament and Law of Moses had its place in History, since Christ came, it no longer applies.

Just as you have outgrown your 2nd grade reading primer, and it no longer applies...it does not mean that the 2nd grade primer NEVER applied....It did at one time...when that was the only thing you could understand. And hopefully it means, that the 2nd grade principles learned are still somehow found in your current reading abilities....

In that regard, then, no Christian, Jewish or Gentile, in under the Old Covenant nor obligated to it.

No Christian, Jewish or Gentile, is under the Law of Moses.

That the Law of Moses continues to exist, is a witness against unbelieving jews to the futility of trying to observe it, and a testimony against them that they need a Savior in Jesus, their Messiah.

The reality is that open and unchecked American aggression in the Middle East and elsewhere has Russia worried and rightfully so.

While the US asserts open aggression as 'self defense' and continues to thumb its nose at NATO, the UN and every other legal entity that the US has bound itself by law to obey, Russia, China, India. Pakistan and others have considered arms buildups and alliances to counteract the very real American threat.

If you have forgotten your history, America has invaded Russia in the past and has forged strategic alliances with states formerlly under Moscow's control.

Moscow has reason to be afraid of American Imperialism, especially by an Adminstration who so easily flaunts it and makes attempt to obscure its evil intentions.

That Republicans of the caliber of Senator's such as Orin Hatch would sponsor such a bill is deeply disturbing and only belies the immediate gratification Republicans would like to realize without considering the long term consequences.

The framers of the Constitution required the President to be a native born American for sensible and historical reasons.

Not only did the Founding Fathers wish to prevent a counter-revolution and a return to British rule that a British-born naturalized American might pose if elected President...(Not all Americans supported the revolution and separation from the Crown)...The founders also knew all too well that countries were conquered often by establishing foreign dominance thru the marriage of kings as well as installing a foreign ruler to control a nation and subvert any ideas of independence from within.

The attempt to overthrow a well established and well thought out Constituional requirement simply to make way for another actor ala` Ronald Reagan to be President is shallow, short-sighted, and deeply disturbing.

It was announced today, the Dome of the Rock has a crack in it.

This crack was discovered after the last earthquake in Israel.

The funding to fix the crack is coming from the United Arab Emirates.

The web site is http://www.jnewswire.com/roundup/040224.asp.

Would you say that this is a Divine Sign?

Snowdoove

I don't know if it is a divine sign, but it is nice to know that a simple shake could clear the ground for the third temple, or quicker yet just put the tabernacle back together. Does anyone know if it is possible that the third temple might not be a building.

Just a passing thought........

"Does anyone know if it is possible that the third temple might not be a building."

Yes.

It's called the Body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3

16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

Acts 17

24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.

OPEC cut production of oil by 1 million barrels a day in order to drive up the price:

http://www.nacsonline.com/NR/exeres/000033...cookie%5Ftest=1

As supplies drop, price goes up.

Reducing demand by cutting consumption will have no effect on overal price, since the net result on oil producers will be to cut production even more, further increasing the price.

Mobile,

Your ignorance is only surpassed by your arrogance and complete failure to understand just what your very own Church says and teaches.

I will say this for you, however. You are the PERFECT example why the Church does not allow just anyone to teach, but only qualified priests and teachers. Your gross incompetance in handling this issue is adequate support for the Church' wise position.

I will converse with you no further.

Mobile stated: "That is not true.

In 1562 the Council of Trent issued the dogmatic definition about the Canon, meaning that the issue of the Canon is closed now, however that doesn't mean that the resolutions of 393 and 397 about the Canon were not binding, what it means is that the defined Canon is irrevocable now."

Mobile, it is really tedious and tiresome trying to discuss this with you since it is clear you have no idea even what the official standing and teaching of the Church is concerning canonicity or how it came about.

I quote from the New Jerome Biblical Commentary which is an imprimatured book of the Roman Catholic Church:

(66:90) "The Finality of the Council of Trent" This council was firm about which books, along with their parts, should be accepted as canonical and inspired. BUT TRENT DID NOT SAY THAT THESE WERE THE ONLY INSPIRED BOOKS, AND THE QUESTION IS SOMETIMES RAISED WHETHER SOME LOST BOOKS MAY HAVE BEEN INSPIRED" . The commentary continues by acknowledging the difficulty there would be establishing, for example, a lost Pauline epistle, as canonical and for all intents and purposes recognizes that it is quite unlikley, but the commentary DOES ASSERT, that the Roman Catholic Church has never declared Canon 'closed' and the discovery of known, yet lost, apostolic writings might in fact be introduced into the Canon.

If you seriously examine the issues of canonicity and inspiriation of the texts and just what the Church does say and teach, you will find that it flies in direct opposition to what you have claimed. But since it is obvious you have not seriously examined the issue and are actually offering arguments which are in direct conflict with Rome's position, there is no sense further discussing it with you.

Even the Church acknowledges 'problems' with the current canon since the councils were not fully equipped nor fully comprehensive in their scope of investigation. The Church also acknowledges that those who voted at the councils were not in a unanimous consensus and also acknowledges that other canons that pre-date Trent and Carthage bear all the criteria for acceptance that Rome used to establish canonicity yet are not acknowledge by the Church to this day.

Rome has NEVER claimed that Scripture or canon was 'closed'.

That canon is 'closed' is a completely Protestant notion and one against which, the Church acted upon at Trent to reiterate its position of 'openess' yet affirmation.

As to your off tangent remarks about DOMA or whatever, I have no clue where you are going with or what relevance it bears to canonicity so I have no comment.

So the entire question of 'inspiration', 'canonicty' and 'scripturality' remains an open question for the Church despite protests to the contrary from every quarter.

Despite protests to the results of a valid Synod, it is what it is and if you can't believe the Holy Spirit really acts in the Church then too bad you have too little faith but that doesn't mean you can change the historical fact of a defined canon.

if you can't believe the Holy Spirit really acts in the Church then too bad you have too little faith

The REAL question is not whether the Holy Spirit acts in the Church, but whether the Catholic Church has been the ONLY means by which the Holy Spirit acts.

To that end, I would reply in the negative: the Holy Spirit is God, NOT the Catholic Church, and that whatever the Catholic Church has partially agreed upon is not the unanimous agreement of all Christians nor all Catholics and never has been.

The 'Catholic' Church has NEVER been historically 'catholic' depsite your erroneous protests tot he contrary...and never WILL be.

Christ's Church is much bigger and more Universal than what the Vatican could ever imagine nor admit to.

What are you talking about?????? By the time the Synod who defined the Canon happened, there was no "catholic-protestant" debate going. All christians belonged to the same doctrinal body.

Now all christians still belong to the very same Church but don't uphold the very same doctrine.

The question is the same: do you believe that the Holy Spirit acted in the Synod that defined the canon or not?. If the answer is "no", then do you believe the Holy Spirit acted in the Church at least once???? (besides the first apostolic synod as depicted in the Bible of course) .

Sorry you are so confused.

And I never made this into a 'Catholic-Protestant' debate.

But despite Trent and previous Catholic Church councils which affirmed that those books which were named were in fact 'canon' and 'inspired'...the Catholic Church never declared authoritatively nor conclusively that these were the ONLY Books that were inspired or would ever be considered 'canon'.

The official position of the Catholic Church is that 'canon' is 'open' and subject to change.

As far as 'inspiration' of the Holy Spirit goes, it is entirely possible to be 'inspired' by the Holy Spirit and still come to an entirely partial or even 'wrong' conclusion about that inspiration.

Simply because a work can be considered 'inspired' does not mean that it is perfectly comprehended, understood, or should be considered written in stone.

After all, we 'see thru a glass darkly' and none have perfect knowledge of the Holy Spirit's mind or will.

The best that can be said is that the Church has never fully agreed on just what is inspired scripture and that 'canon' has never been 'closed'....

So the entire question of 'inspiration', 'canonicty' and 'scripturality' remains an open question for the Church despite protests to the contrary from every quarter.

Despite protests to the results of a valid Synod, it is what it is and if you can't believe the Holy Spirit really acts in the Church then too bad you have too little faith but that doesn't mean you can change the historical fact of a defined canon.

if you can't believe the Holy Spirit really acts in the Church then too bad you have too little faith

The REAL question is not whether the Holy Spirit acts in the Church, but whether the Catholic Church has been the ONLY means by which the Holy Spirit acts.

To that end, I would reply in the negative: the Holy Spirit is God, NOT the Catholic Church, and that whatever the Catholic Church has partially agreed upon is not the unanimous agreement of all Christians nor all Catholics and never has been.

The 'Catholic' Church has NEVER been historically 'catholic' depsite your erroneous protests tot he contrary...and never WILL be.

Christ's Church is much bigger and more Universal than what the Vatican could ever imagine nor admit to.

SIXTEEN FACTS THAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISRAEL

Two peoples claim the same land in the Middle East. Whose land is it? Who is right: Israel or the Palestinians? Does it belong to both peoples? Who has the right to decide to whom the Land belongs? Israel? The Arab League? The United States? The United Nations Security Council? The United Nations General Assembly? How should it be decided? By the Koran? By the various competing claims of history? By voting? By war? When the Word of God speaks authoritatively on any subject, that is the final word. God has much to say about the Land and people of Israel in His supernatural revelation, the Bible, which is the very Word of God.

Fact 1

The Jewish people are the Chosen People: After Adam and Eve sinned, humanity deteriorated so badly that God destroyed the early world of men with the Great Flood. Noah and his family knew the Lord, and were spared, but after they came out of the Ark and started repopulating, their descendants abandoned God, became idolatrous, perverse and evil. Then God created a special nation to be a light to the other nations. The Creator of the universe specifically chose the nation of Israel to be that unique people who would witness to His reality. "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the people who are on the face of the Earth" (Deuteronomy 7:6).

"You are My witnesses," declares the Lord, "and My servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me. I, even I am the Lord; and there is no Savior beside Me" (Isaiah 43:10-11). If the Chosen People were faithful to our calling, God promised to bless us above all the other nations, so that the nations of the world would know that the God of Israel is the true God who alone can save us, by reconciling us to Himself, thereby restoring us to peace, joy, blessing and life. But if we were disobedient to our calling, the Lord promised to severely punish us so that the nations of the world would learn a lesson from us, and know that it is a terrible thing to disobey the God of Israel. Either way, through our obedience or disobedience, the Chosen People would witness to the other nations of the world that the God of Israel is to be reckoned with.

Fact 2

The Land of Israel belongs to God: "The Earth is the Lord's and all it contains, the world and those who dwell in it" (Psalm 24:1). Since the entire world belongs to God, He has the right to apportion it as He chooses, and He specifically gave the nations their lands based on the Jewish people's right to the Land of Israel! "When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of man, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel. For the Lord's portion is His people; Jacob is the allotment of His inheritance" (Deuteronomy 32:8-9).

Fact 3

The Chosen People needed a Chosen Land, and so the God of Israel strategically chose the Land of Israel for the People of Israel: "This is Jerusalem; I have set her at the center of the nations, with lands around her" (Ezekiel 5:5). The Land that God chose for us is located in the center of the nations, connecting the continents of Europe, Africa and Asia. Because of this strategic location, the Jewish people had ample exposure to all the nations of the world.

Fact 4

The Land of Israel was given by God to the descendants of Abraham as an everlasting possession: "The Lord appeared to Abram and said, ‘To your descendants I will give this Land'" (Genesis 12:7). God further said to Abraham: "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession" (Genesis 17:7-8).

Fact 5

Even though Abraham had many sons, the Land of Israel wasn't given to Ishmael, or to any of the other sons of Abraham, but only to Isaac: "Abraham said to God, ‘Oh that Ishmael might live before You!' But God said ‘No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him'" (Genesis 17:18-19). God rejected Abraham's request that Ishmael be the heir of the covenant, and appointed Isaac instead.

Years later the Lord God appeared to Isaac and said, "to you and to your descendants I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore to your father Abraham.

And I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the Earth shall be blessed" (Genesis 26:3-4). Knowing that Isaac was the heir of the covenant, which included the Land of Israel, Abraham gave all that he had to Isaac. He gave gifts to his other sons, but he sent them away to the lands of the east, not wanting the heir of the everlasting covenant to have rivalry over the Land of Israel from his siblings (Genesis 25:5-6).

Even though Isaac had two sons, the Land wasn't given to Esau, but to Jacob: One night Jacob had a dream while fleeing from his brother Esau. In his dream the Lord said to him, "I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the Land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants." (Genesis 28:13). God later appeared to Jacob and said to him, "the Land which I gave to Abraham and Isaac, I will give it to you, and I will give the Land to your descendants after you" (Genesis 35:11-12). This promise deeds the Land of Israel to the descendants of Jacob - the Jewish people of today.

Fact 7

There is no doubt about Israel's God-given borders because they are described for us in detail in the Holy Scriptures: "The Lord said to Abram after Lot had separated from him, ‘Now lift up your eyes and look from the place where you are, northward and southward and eastward and westward; for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever... Arise, walk about the land through its length and breadth; for I will give it to you'" (Genesis 13:14-17). "The Lord made a covenant with Abraham, saying, ‘To your descendants I have given this Land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates'" (Genesis 15:18-21). "I will fix your boundary from the Red Sea to the sea of the Philistines, and from the wilderness to the River Euphrates" (Exodus 23:31). Therefore we must conclude that the entire Land of Israel, including Judea and Samaria (the so-called "West Bank"), Gaza, the Golan Heights, and all of Jerusalem, was given by the God of Israel to the people of Israel in perpetuity. We, and we alone, have been given the title to the Land of Israel as a permanent inheritance by the Lord. No human government or coalition of governments has the right or authority to cede portions of the Land of Israel to anyone else.

Fact 8

In addition to the everlasting covenant (which includes the Land), God swore an oath to give the Jewish people this Land: Keep in mind that it's absolutely impossible for God to break an oath (see Hebrews 6:16-18). In the Holy Scriptures, this oath is reiterated more than forty times. Here is just one example: "He has remembered His covenant forever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations, the covenant which He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac. Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant, saying, ‘To you I will give the land of Canaan as the portion of your inheritance'" (Psalm 105:8- 11). There is no other passage in which there are so many words used to describe God's unyielding commitment to Israel: covenant, word, oath, confirm, commandment, a thousand generations, statute, everlasting covenant. A person has to have a terrible bias not to understand that God is assuring the Jewish people the perpetual right to the Land of Israel in the strongest possible language.

Fact 9

Israel's sin and resulting exile from the Land of Israel never annulled God's covenant with His Chosen People, nor did it permanently abrogate our right to the Land of Israel: "Yet in spite of this (Israel's disobedience), when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors" - which includes the Land of Israel (Leviticus 26:44-45). Our exile from Israel was meant to be temporary!

In Deuteronomy 30:1-5, Moses specifically predicted that we would experience a time of obedience and blessing within the Land, followed by a period of disobedience and exile from the Land, followed by spiritual restoration to God and physical restoration to the Land: "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the Lord your God has banished you, and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the people where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are at the ends of the Earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. And the Lord your God will bring you into the Land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it."

It's no coincidence that after two thousand years of exile, the Chosen People are being restored to the Land that our fathers possessed, and simultaneously, we are being spiritually restored to God through the Messiah, as is evidenced by the growth of the Messianic Jewish movement in Israel and around the world.

The Son of God Himself predicted that because the majority of Israel did not believe He was the Messiah, Jerusalem would be destroyed, and we would be exiled among the nations, but eventually, we would return to Israel (Luke 21:23-24). This prophecy began in 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed, and then again in 135 AD, when the Second Jewish Revolt against the Roman Empire was crushed. We were scattered to the nations, and lost political control of Jerusalem. However, over the past 2,000 years, there were always some Jewish people who remained in the Land of Israel. Starting in the 1880's, this prophesied regathering of Jewish people to Israel picked up speed, and now there is a reborn nation of Israel, with Jerusalem as its capital, with 5.3 million Jewish people regathered from more than 70 countries, just as Israel's Messiah predicted.

Fact 10

In His prophetic Word, God promised to regather us to "our own Land": "I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own Land... And you will live in the Land that I gave to your forefathers" (Ezekiel 36:24, 28). Again Ezekiel predicts: "Thus says the Lord God, ‘Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own Land'" (Ezekiel 37:21). Jeremiah adds: "‘Behold days are coming' declares the Lord, ‘when it will no longer be said, "As the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt," but, "As the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them." For I will restore them to their own Land which I gave to their fathers'" (Jeremiah 16:14-15). Ultimately this regathering to our own Land will be greater than the Exodus out of Egypt!

Fact 11

In His prophetic Word, God calls this restored Land "Israel" - not "Palestine": "I will open up your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the Land of Israel" (Ezekiel 37:12). The name "Palestine" comes from the Philistines, the ancient enemies of the Jewish people. "Palestine" was the derogatory name given to the Land of Israel by the Romans after they conquered us. But throughout the Word of God, this Land is always called Israel - never Palestine.

Fact 12

God, speaking to us through the prophet Ezekiel, informs us that this Land is specifically reserved for the Jewish people: "You O mountains of Israel, you will put forth your branches and bear your fruit for My people Israel; for they will soon come. For behold, I am for you, and I will turn to you, and you will be cultivated and sown. I will multiply men on you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities will be inhabited and the waste places will be rebuilt" (Ezekiel 36:8-10). 2,500 years ago Ezekiel told us that in the Last Days the Jewish people would be restored to our Land. The Land would begin to prosper and the Jewish population would greatly increase. In the past century these prophetic words have been coming to pass. The Land of Israel, which lay barren for centuries, has seen increasing numbers of the sons of Israel returning to our ancient homeland, repopulating the cities and cultivating the Land.

Fact 13

2,500 years ago the Lord also told us that the Jewish return to the Land would provoke a reaction from Israel's neighbors: "Because the enemy has spoken against you ‘Aha' and ‘The everlasting heights have become our possession'... Surely in the fire of My jealousy I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, who appropriated My Land for themselves as a possession with wholehearted joy and scorn of soul, to drive it out as a prey" (Ezekiel 36:2-5). Even though the nations surrounding Israel would claim possession of the Land of Israel for themselves, and try to drive out its rightful Jewish inhabitants, God repudiates the claims of these nations. Even though the majority of the Jewish people were exiled from our Land (there always was a remnant of Jewish people who remained within Israel), that doesn't give anyone else the right to claim the Land of Israel for themselves. If a landlord has some bad tenants that he evicts from his property, he does not expect anyone else to enter his vacant property and claim it for their own. Due to our sins, the Landlord of Israel evicted most of us from the Land, but that didn't give the Romans, the Byzantines, the Crusaders, the Ottomans or the Arabs the right to claim God's holy Land for themselves.

Fact 14

God will severely judge any nation who divides up any part of this special Land: "In those days and at that time when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of My people and My inheritance Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they have divided up My Land" (Joel 3:1-2). When Messiah Yeshua returns, the fortunes of the Jewish people will be fully restored, and the nations will be summoned to Jerusalem, where they will be judged for scattering the Jewish people and dividing up our Land.

Fact 15

Eventually this conflict over the Land of Israel will entangle the entire world: God, speaking through the prophet Zechariah in 12:1-3, in the Sixth Century BC, predicted: "Behold I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around" (the nations will react to the regathering of the Jewish people with senseless behavior and irrational hatred); "and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. And it will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples" (Israel's Islamic neighbors want to destroy the hated "Zionist Entity" because the Islamic worldview teaches that the entire world will ultimately come under the control of Islam. A Jewish state in the midst of the Moslem Middle East is by its very existence an insult to Allah and Islam, and must be destroyed. Islam can have no true and lasting peace with Israel - only a temporary cease-fire. Hostilities will once again be renewed when Islamic strength is renewed. At its core, this is a religious conflict - not a political or economic one); "all who lift it will be severely injured." (The nations of the world will be drawn into this conflict and try to remove the Jewish presence from Jerusalem. However, be warned - every nation that tries to remove the Jewish people from our Land and capital city will be severely injured). "And all the nations of the Earth will be gathered against it." (The world's united nations will wage a final world war in the Middle East, directed against Israel). It's amazing to see this 2,500-year-old prophetic scenario shaping up before our very eyes! Zechariah's prophecy continues and informs us that the army of the united nations will be defeated; God will destroy all those nations that fight against Israel; Israel will be miraculously saved and recognize Yeshua as the Messiah!

Fact 16

This will be a time of great difficulty for the Jewish people, but we will be miraculously delivered out of it: "Alas! for that day is great, there is none like it; and it is the time of Jacob's distress, but he will be saved from it" (Jeremiah 30:7). The fires of anti-Semitism will reach their hottest point in the near future, but with God's help, we will come through our fiery trials to a time of unparalleled salvation. Israel's salvation and blessing will then overflow to the other nations of the world.

Sadly, many Christians won't accept these facts because they accept "Replacement Theology," the erroneous teaching that God is finished with the Jewish people, and has replaced Israel with the Church. Speaking to us through the prophet Jeremiah, the Lord specifically warns against having a theology that denies Israel's future destiny: "Have you not observed what this people have spoken, saying, ‘The two families which the Lord chose, He has rejected them?' Thus they despise My people, no longer are they as a nation in their sight.

Thus says the Lord, ‘If My covenant for day and night stand not, and the fixed patterns of Heaven and Earth I have not established, then I would reject the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, not taking from His descendants rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them'" (Jeremiah 33:24-26). All of God's promises to the Jewish people will literally be fulfilled! Christians must repudiate "Replacement Theology." No one who claims to follow the Messiah ought to teach or believe that the Jewish people have been lost, destroyed, replaced, superseded, permanently set aside or continually exiled from our Land.

Don't ignore the admonition given by Rabbi Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, specifically directed to Gentile Christians, which I paraphrase here: "do not be arrogant toward the natural branches, the Jewish people. God chose them to be the root of the Tree of Salvation. They support you - you don't support or replace them! Only some of them were broken off from the Tree of Salvation - not all of them. Moreover, it is God's plan to graft the entire Jewish nation back into the Tree of Salvation, so don't be arrogant or conceited toward the Jewish people. Be respectful to them, lest God punish you! " (Romans 11:17-24).

Someone observed that knowing that God will not break His covenant with the Jewish people, even in spite of our sins, should be reassuring to every Christian. If God broke His covenant with the Jewish people (which includes the Land of Israel) due to our sins, what about twenty centuries of Christian history?

It's true that there has been a faithful remnant within the Church, just as there has always been a faithful remnant of true Believers within Israel, but there has also been an endless succession of anti-Semitism, heresy, apostasy, greed, immorality, division, and ceaseless struggles for power and prominence within the visible Church.

Professing Christians have subjected fellow Christians to torture and death in the name of Christ. If God can annul His covenant with Israel, then He can just as easily annul His covenant with the Church! But the faithful God will never break any of His covenants with Israel or the Church.

If you are a Christian you need to stand by Israel, and support Israel as much as possible. God's ancient promise in Genesis 12:3 is still very much in effect: "I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse." And God, speaking to Israel, promises, "Behold, all those who are angered at you will be shamed and dishonored; those who contend with you will be as nothing and will perish. You will seek those who quarrel with you, but will not find them, those who war with you will be as nothing and non-existent" (Isaiah 41:11-12).

Christian churches should regularly pray "for the peace of Jerusalem," asking God to send King Messiah back to Jerusalem, so He can rule on the throne of David, bringing peace to Israel and the other nations. There will never be peace in the Middle East, or on Earth, until Messiah Yeshua is ruling from Jerusalem over a restored Israel populated by Messianic Jews. We need to pray for our Arab brothers, that they too might come into relationship with the God of Israel through Messiah Yeshua.

Rather than persecuting us for the death of Yeshua, and engaging in any form of anti-Semitism, true Christians must reach out to the Jewish people with love and mercy, and help us find God and the Messiah. Because of the way that God has used Israel to bring salvation to the other nations, every true Christian is under a special obligation to help the Chosen People, who have stumbled, come into a right relationship with God, which includes Messiah Yeshua. Rabbi Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, declared: "Salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous" (Romans 11:11). True Christians should have compassion on us, love us and make us jealous of their relationship with the God of Israel. Your peace and joy, your love and mercy, and your knowledge of God and Messiah should challenge us to reevaluate our rejection of Yeshua.

Finally, Christians need to support those who are reaching out to the Jewish people with the Good News about Messiah Yeshua, supporting those that not only bless Israel, but also bring us the Good News.

[This article is based on "Seven Facts About Israel." The author is unknown at this time].

Shalom!

16 errors presented in the preceeding article:

Fact 1:

Israel has been 'cut off' by unbelief from God and is no longer God's means by which His light is shown to the world.

Fact 2:

The earth is the Lord's and His promise to give Israel the specific land of Israel was fulfilled under Solomon and conditionally granted and approved.

The Land of Palestine is no more specifically granted to a national Israel by God than is the plains of Canada still the land of the Indians. The fact is, that the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, and He makes the rain to fall for the just and th unjust equally and not just national Israelis.

Fact 3:

The Church is God's Chosen People, not Israel. And God has promised His Church a land that is not of this world.

Fact 4:

The Covenant was established between God and Abraham and Abraham's SEED, who is Jesus the Christ. There is no Covenant promise for those outside of that promised Covenant including Abraham and the Christ. Without Christ, there is no promise. No Blessing. No future. No Israel.

Fact 5:

Ishmael and his descendants have as much access to God's Land of promise as any Jew. God's promise is extended to any and all who believe and has NEVER been withheld from even Gentiles who chose to believe God and serve and follow Him.

Fact 6+7:

The physical borders of the land promise were established and fulfilled by God, then lost by Israel because of disobedience.

Fact 8:

The promised land has NEVER been of this world and never WILL be of this world. The promised land is the New and heavenly Jerusalem which we only hope for and have citizenship by faith in Christ. Unbeleiving Jews and unbelieving Gentiles have no place in it. Physical and National Israel no part or pacel in the Gospel plan.

Fact 9:

God's promise and Covenant to israel has always been good, but good only as long as Israel believed and fulfilled their part of the Covenental contract by expressing faith in God's Son Jesus Christ. Without faith in Christ no Jew has any part in God's Covenenats. It is true that God has not permanently barred Jews from this Covenenat any more than He has permanently engrafted in those gentiles who now believe and obey. IF Israel repents and obeys, she will also be saved. There is no promise that she shall, however, and the only promise is that each and every man, Jew and Gentile, has access to the Covenant thru Christ.

Fact 10:

God has made a nation from all those peoples who were not a nation.

He has done this in His Church, the Body of Christ. Not in a national Israel of unbelieivng Jews..

Fact 11:

Ezekiel 37:12 was fulfilled in Israel's return from the Babylonian captivity and AGAIN was conditioned upon Israel's embrace and obedience to their messiah..whem they rejected...

Fact12:

Jesus reminded the Jews that any branch in Him that did not bear fruit would be cut off, and that he cursed the tree of Israel when He found no fruit in her....Unbelieving Israel today remains under Christ's curse, not Christ's blessing.

Fact13:

Paul the Apostle speaking by the Holy Spirit today indicated how God hoped to provoke ISRAEL to jealousy by having the Gentiles be saved by the Gospel of Jesus Christ while Israel who made false and bastardly claims to the promises made to Abraham and his true seed dies in its sins.

Fact14:

The Jewish Messiah has already come and this propecy already fulfilled.

Israel was continually pummled by invasion after invasion from the Persians to the babylonians to the Greeks to the Selucids to the Romans...who ultimately scattered unbelieiving Israel to the 4 winds and destroyed the Temple and instead gave the riches to the Gentiles who received the Gospel message.

Fact15:

Zechariah's prophecy fulfilled under the Romans and Israel's subsequent conquerors....

Fact16:

God's promises are to those who believe. To the Jew first and then to the Gentile. Only those who believe and are part of Christ's Body and Church will recieve the promises. There is no 'promise' left to an unbelieivng national Israel except ultimate destruction by the One they crucified.

The Church has not 'replaced' Israel.

TRUE Israel, is the Church, and there is no Israel of God apart form the Church and Body of Christ.

No bubble burst here.

I understand what you are saying, but I do not understand how one would be right in "bucking" the guidance that the Holy Spirit has given to the authority of the church, and what arguement does one have at the present to disregard the deuterocanonicals as canon?

The hypethetical point that you have holds no precedence in the present. So what do the faithful do in the present?

This is the no spin zone! What say you? You still have failed to answer the question. Should they be included now in the present? With the facts that we now have, not with the assumptions of the facts that we may have in the future.

The fact remains that the 'Church' has NEVER been in unanimous agreement just as to which books should be contained in the 'Bible'.

So to state "but I do not understand how one would be right in "bucking" the guidance that the Holy Spirit has given to the authority of the church, " only begs the question just WHOSE Church or WHICH Church is hearing in full or in part from the Holy Spirit in the first place, or whether the Church has heard from the Holy Spirit at all in its selection of canonical literature.

Of course, the Roman Church thinks 'it' had the full inspiration of the Holy Spirit in deciding that she was the one who would decide for everyone just what was and what was not 'scripture', but the Church was far from unanimous in the Councils...

Which brings us back to the point that the 'canon' has NEVER been universally decided at all....

It has merely been ASSERTED which books should be CANON at times by some majorities of localized decisionmakers and likely NEVER with the full backing of the Holy Spirit at all.

That is NOT to say that the Scriptures as we have them are useless for doctrine or teaching.

But their degree of 'inspiration' and whether they remian inspired at all remains an ongoing an open question for most believers in the world.

Protestants use 66 books....

Ethipoian Orthodox Bibles use 83 books...

With many variations in between...

Not even the Jews ever universally adopted just what was Jewish "canon"...and recognized probably better than has the Church that the "canon of scripture" has been fluid from the beginning...

So the entire question of 'inspiration', 'canonicty' and 'scripturality' remains an open question for the Church despite protests to the contrary from every quarter.

Do you agree or disagree with" to spare the rod is to spoil the child?

In Canada you are not alowed to spank a child.

What do you think?

Disagree.

"Spare the Rod, spoil the child" is not found in the Bible.

The closest phrase found similar to it is Proverbs 13:24 "Proverbs 13:24

He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. "

But even this verse does not refer to hitting or beating a child.

The term 'rod' was actually a sceptre, a symbol of one's rule over others or a symbol of one's authority.

Pro 13:24 simply indicates that any parent who does not exercise authority over their child really does not love that child.

The Bible verse doesn't really have anything to say about corproal punishment.

But that said, a good crack on a child's the behind can get more results than any begging and pleading with him...and is completely necessary at times....imho.

Homebild,

So how are we to view the deuterocanonicals? Inspired or not.

The Church for 1700 years has held them as inspired. Whether or not the Church has closed the official position on them, the Holy Spirit has guided the Church to this decision apparently to stay as 'inspired' up to the present.

So how are the faithful to view them? Why are they violently rejected by many?

Some of the Saints have had the opinion that they should not have been included as inspired, (ie. St. Jerome), but even St Jerome does not have the Authority to make these decisions, the bishops do. St. Jerome then accepted the view of the church and translated them to Latin, (OBEDIENCE). Against his personal views he stayed obedient to the guidence of the Holy Spirit, to the Church.

Should they be included?

What is your arguement pro or con?

You say the arguement of history, guidence of the Holy Spirit, references from the New testament to them, the fact that the Septuagint was used by Christ himself is all "extremely poorly framed." Then what is your arguement?

Should the Jews be our leaders, or the God given Authority of the Bishops?

I believe this arguement is more than specious.

Nicholas

"So how are we to view the deuterocanonicals? Inspired or not?"

Well according to the Catholic Church, these 'second Law' or 'deuterocanonicals' remain 'canon'.

And yet, the claim to deuterocanonicity was NEVER universally accepted...not even by Catholic scholars, saints or others....as I am sure you know.

Nor were these proclamations of 'canonicity' ever accepted as 'universal' by the entire Christian Church....not even beofre there were Protestants.

The fact remains, that "Canon" has ALWAYS been "Fluid" and that just what should be or should not be considered 'inspired scripture' never wholly agreed upon by all the Church no matter what some 'segments' of the Church may claim.

Sorry if that bursts your bubble and takes us no closer to a proper 'definition' of just what Biblical canon 'should' be...but it IS the TRUTH....

The Bible teaches that all men will be rewarded for their deeds.

For those who obey God, life.

For those who disobey God, death.

Any other claim is a lie.

The idea of an 'age of accounatbility' is a false one since the Bible clearly teaches that 'all have sinned and come short of the glory of God' and that all who have been born die, therefore all have sinned.... even the preborn and recent born...

An 'age of accountability' is neither a Biblical teaching nor is it sound Christianity.

The scripture,apostles, Christ and all else have alwasy taught that no man is without sin and none are exempt...even children

Any Greek scholars out there want to help with this one...?

Where did the word "Church" come from? As I search my MKJV, I find that Matthew attributes Jesus with speaking the word twice: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church," and "And if he (a brother who sins against you) shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he neglects to hear the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax collector." (Matt. 16:18; 18:15) After this, the word is used throughout the NT. But where did the word come from? Why did Jesus introduce this new word into the lexicon? What was the significance of it?

I understand what the Bible says about the church, and that it is more than a building, etc. etc. I'm wondering what the significance of the word is... in other words, how would the disciples have reacted to it, and how would it shape their thinking about God and Christ?

The word 'Church' is a variation of the Hebrew for 'congregation'.

But the Greek word is Ekklesia which is also the same root word that is used for 'called', 'chosen', or 'elect'. (ie "ekklektikos")

The Church are those who are 'called' or 'elect'.

And just WHOM are 'called' or 'chosen' or 'elect'?

According to the Bible EVERYONE is called and chosen and elect to be the Church.

And yet of all 'called few are chosen'...

A variation of the same words meaning that only those who respond to the call are elected, chosen, and eventually called to be Christ's Church.

Bottom line: ALL humans are called to be part of the Church with none excluded. No one is exempted based upon their 'depravity'....What a story. Best for Hollywood...

All I can say to this 'argument' is that it is extremely poorly framed. appeals to a 'false dichotomy' using a false 'Catholic vs Protestant' thesis, and fails to acknowledge that even before and after Carthage and all the other councils there never was any unaninimity on just what was and was not canon...even by Catholic saints.

The reality is that from early on 'canon' has always varied from as many as 83 books of Ethiopian Orhtodox Christians to as few as the 66 books of some Protestant bibles.

Even within the Roman Catholic Church, the official position is that while at Trent the current canon was currently 'fixed' it was never 'closed'...leaving open the distinct possibility that even Roman Catholic Canon could change given the proper archeology, scholarship and proof.

That said, Nicholas argument falls flat on most points and remains specious at best.