Tari

Well, I wouldn't necessarily put her in the category of being crazy. She might be under some sort of demonic attack. Personally I experienced a demonic attack in March of this year. I wrote my story online at www.miraclethentribulation.com called miracle then tribulation. Now the conclusion that I came up with for my personal tribulation experience has been debated by others. Not everyone agrees with the Bible verses that I matched it up with. My story may or may not match up with end times events. There just seems to be a lot of these crazy stories happening around the world. I would take your sister seriously for what she is seeing happen. The closer she becomes to God and reading the Bible, the more understanding she will obtain. She also needs to pray to God that through Lord Jesus he offers her protection. She is in my prayers.

Oh that's totally understood about it not being an actual church. The only thing is that in order to qualify as a child of God, it must be important to stay away from believing in false teaching.

The church will prevail, the only problem is which church? What church is a true church nowadays? To me, there doesn't seem to be many true churches around, that aren't teaching some sort of false teaching or another. And Noah was the only preacher of righteousness....

Some of us have been debating the rapture over the past 2 months. First on the "rapture" thread, and then on the "why belief in the rapture is misguided" thread. Personally I do not believe the righteous will be raptured away before the visible "second coming" return of Christ. Rapture believers have shown every Bible verse that they use to support their theory. I do not see a "rapture" at all in the verses that they show. It just seems like Bible verses are being twisted around to make it seem like a rapture of saints will occur before the second coming. When Jesus said he would return, nothing was said about returning first for a secret rapture, and then visibly returning later. There is a reason why it is called the "second coming". He came like a lamb the first time, and He is coming back like a lion. I've pointed out practically every Bible verse in the previous weeks, about the visible return of Christ. Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 12:35-59, Luke 17:20-37, Luke 21:1-38, 1Thessalonians 5:1-11, 2Peter 3:3-14, 2Thessalonians 1:7-10, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17, John 6:40,44,54, Matthew 13:24-30 & 36-43, and Revelation 7:14. There seems to be plenty of evidence written that those who remain alive until the coming of our Lord are blessed. Also it says that the wicked will actually be taken away first. It really surprises me that a rapture theory, which has only been around for less than 200 years, is so popular. But then again, even the mormon religion has gathered over 60 million believers. Both of these beliefs ironically started in the year 1830. What is most surprising is that the visible return of Christ is never spoken of. This is going to be such an incredible event when it does happen. It is stated that it will be just like in the days of Noah, people will be eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage etc....But with all these other theories running around, hardly anyone is even focused on the visible return anymore. There is a lot of debate on whether there will be a pre-trib, mid-trib, or post trib rapture. It seems like all of these are a false deceit, believed by many. I am sure rapture believers will slam me down for saying such a thing. There are many books and websites teaching this rapture theory. There are also many books and websites that state "what a false deceitful lie from satan this whole rapture theory is". So from my experience from dealing with this, most people are going to believe whatever they want. Nobody will ever talk me into believing in a rapture theory, and rapture believers probably feel the same way. What surprises me is that by not believing in a rapture theory my salvation is not harmed in any way. In other words, is God going to turn me away because I did not believe in being raptured away? No, not at all. In fact it seems much safer to not believe in the rapture at all. If you believe in the rapture and find out it is false then what? Will God be dissapointed that you believed a lie? Will God be dissapointed that you weren't focused on the actual return of Christ?

Other One also, thanks for taking the time to read this story. The reason I matched this experience with the Bible verses quoted was partly because of the amount of time. My tribulation lasted close to 3 days long (64 hours total). If you look at Revelation 2:10. It is speaking of the persecuted church having a tribulation experience for 10 days total. My experience was less than 1/3 of that length of time. Can you understand why I put 2+2 together to consider these as similar events.

Thanks for your reply. This tribulation experience was just a one time deal that lasted three days. I don't regularly deal with demons, demonic experiences, or hear voices ever. As far as being prepared when I experienced my actual miracle from God. I was alcoholic at the time, and in no way, shape, or form expecting any kind of miracle to ever happen. When I reached out to God asking for help there was no expectation whatsoever that I would be healed in His actual presence. Certainly it would have been nice for me to have been prepared to be in the presence of God. I'm very dissapointed in myself for my behavior. I pray all the time that God will forgive me for the stupid silly things I said during my actual miracle. I had just reached a very low point in my life and I was healed and put back together. If this miracle experience happened to me today, I would absolutely be trembling in the presence of God. Since we live in a world today that does not regularly teach the importance of fearing Almighty God our creator. Instead my perspective of God during the miracle was that He is my best friend. Since all of this I've repented of all sin in my life. Other than cuss words slipping out from time to time. I try my best not to ever dwell anymore on past issues and anger towards others. In a way this tribulation experience was kind of like having reversed psychology played out. It really brought me back to the basics where I needed to be. God Bless

Butero, Thanks for your response. In reply to your questions Yes, I was deceived by "demons" or a demonic force, to act in that irrational manner at that time. As far as questioning me about the tribulation itself occuring within an individual. I will say that people have many preconcieved notions about end times events. So, if people do not see what they are expecting to happen, then it is dismissed as not being an and time event. Since all this happened, I realize people expect the antichrist to rule the world before the return of Christ. If you consider the possibility of what happened to me, being a rise of false christs, or false prophet. Then it would make sense, that the return of Christ, is going to sneak up on people just like in the days of Noah (people will be completely unaware). When I thought about writing my story and warning others, it was because if others were tribulated, they would be able to realize the deception involved. I could have very easily went on with my life after this tribulation experience and remain deceived. I had no idea this tribulation was a tribulation, it seemed like a miracle happening. Since all this I realize their are so many false and deceptive teachings going on in the world everywhere, including churches. I've learned that people fear being marked by the beast (when the antichrist rules) . Couldn't you be marked by the beast believing all these false deceptive teachings going on? Could your hand be marked by writing and selling about these false teachings? Could I have received the mark of the beast if I continued to believe my tribulation was an actual miracle? This is why it is important for me to share my story.

Wow this is just like diggin' up an old bone that's been buried away. Thanks for responding to this. Actually this experience is what originally brought me to find worthy chat. It is only in my own opinion that this tribulation experience matches up with Matthew 24:24. I was really seeking some professional christian advice over this mattter. I still have yet to find anyone who can give me any sound advice. I don't know what to say really, it's been a rough road since all of this happened. The only reason I was able to realize that I was tribulated was from reading Matthew 24. This was just the only thing that made sense to me. I've learned a lot from attempting to seek some mature christian advice over this matter. I tried sharing this story with some local pastors and their only response was that they believe in the rapture. I was never even aware of this rapture theory until May of this year. So the next thing was researching the whole rapture theory. Nobody has wanted to match up my story with end times events at all. Mainly this is because of people who believe in the rapture. They don't want to consider end times events happening because they have not been raptured away yet. Okay, well it's just nice to hear a christian opinion. Thanks

Okay, so tell me what axactly does it take to have eternal salvation? How can I be 100% sure that I will be spending my eternity with our heavenly Father?

Okay earlier when I posted: Instead of worrying about your salvation being assured, why not worry about repenting of your sins? Why not worry about committing your life to Christ and following His teachings throughout your life? I guess that's what started this all in the past few hours. So in other words was what I wrote wrong? I just don't understand what to do if I was wrong by assuming those things. Gosh, maybe I should just sit back and smoke crack instead. Since it was wrong of me to think about doing all those other things.

What happens if I am saved and accidently just happen to commit adultery or some type of fornication or say murder? Does this mean I am still saved. Also what axactly do I have to do to begin with to consider myself saved?

Super Jew, Okay, I've read through some of your previous posts. I understand to a certain extent where your argument is here. Tell me something if you wish, in your opinion what does it take in order for a person to have eternal salvation?

Super Jew, So are you saying that people who do not believe they can be assured of eternal security are straw men? Are you saying that we ignore what the scriptures say? Are you also saying that we do not practice what we believe? Thats very presumptious of you. You are assuming these things, about people who believe that they cannot assure their own eternal salvation. We are using plenty of scripture to back up our belief, why don't you do the same.

It surprises me how many people believe in totally being saved, and their eternal salvation never being lost. It's just hard to understand because our God is such a strict God. It seems like your God given common sense alone would warn you that this is going to take quite a commitment. There is such an easy fast salvation theory going on in todays society. Repentence of sins alone can be quite a task. Considering in todays world we are bombarded with, say for instance, visual signs of sin everywhere. It's all over the television, and all over advertising everywhere. Just trying to clear our minds alone of sin and lust, material desires etc... etc... This takes a lot of work to clear our minds of such things. That's not even considering the many people who physically act out on such sins. Just this aspect alone, I am sure it is important to have a pure thought process. Easy salvation just does not cut it in todays world. Corrupt minds and hearts are not acceptable to God. Just my own opinion in these wee hours.

(Happy Wisdom) Greg, Hey I'm praying for you also. I wasn't trying to throw Hell fire at you. It's just a fact that I'm aware of. I hope and pray that none of us will ever end up there. It's important to align yourself with God and the teachings of Christ.

Some people just do not realize that our God is a very strict God. He has a straight and narrow path that leads to him. Many people and religions with their ideals, like to make God into whatever they want Him to be. Our creator, God gives us a clear example of who He is and what His expectations of us are. Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come. 1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1Peter 4:17-18 For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? People with their crazy imaginations and wild beliefs are going to be in for a big surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hell is a very real place created by God for the unrighteous. It is important to fear God because the punishment he has is very real and eternal.

Thanks for all your replies so far. I wasn't sure how this subject would be responded to. There are a lot of people who believe they are saved in the world. Unfortunately it seems like many of them are very nieve about this. Surveys have been done about this subject, although I don't have the info right here. When asked, the majority of all people say they are saved and going to heaven. The problem is that many really don't have much a basis to assume this. It is a large assumption, to just assume that you will be spending all of your eternity with your Heavenly Father, without preparing for such a thing.

Could people who believe they are righteous and saved please explain these Bible verses: Luke 18:9-14 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in a week, I give tithes of all that I posess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:21-24 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have we cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock. Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. 1John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Leonard (Fr. Onesimus), No, that was not too long of a post. That was very interesting and informative. I'll have to reread to get all the details again. It's good for people to share their experiences. Other people enjoy reading them also. Much thanks for sharing your story. Love in Christ, Tari

Thankyou (Gentle Giant) Bryan, That was very nice to hear all about. It is so important to hear about the different experiences people go through. It definetely can help others weigh and balance for themselves, what their searching for. Thankyou so much for sharing your story. Love in Christ, Tari

Thanks, but the credit does not go to me. It goes to God. He is the one who brought them together, we just obeyed his voice and opened our doors. HE did the rest!! In addition to these young adults coming from various denominations, including non-denominational (a variety of those), Presbyterian, Charismatic, Church of God, Baptist, Methodist, Christian & Missionary Alliance, etc., they also come from various ethnic and economic backgrounds. I really love having a multi-racial group, too. We have people in our group who live in poverty and we have people in our group who are fairly well off, though the well off ones are in the minority. Anyway, only God could have put this group together, because they would not have naturally come together. I believe God has this group together for us to equip them for the harvest that I believe God is going to bring on this earth. These are Christ's disciples and they are getting ready for battle and for reaping the harvest. This is their training ground. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Would there be any way to contact you through an e-mail or something? I can understand if you don't want to post that info. But, even though I live thousands of miles away, it is just so interesting how this group was gathered. I would like some more information from you if it's possible. Thanks again.

Hey thanks, It's probably good if I try to research on the internet for the core beliefs behind the main denominational ones. This is Good information because it's important to stick with those closest to the Bible.

Boy, wouldn't it be nice to live in Rockville, South Carolina right about now.