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I'm trying to get a better understanding of Middle Knowledge ..... I've read several articles on both sides of the issue, and wondering if Middle Knowledge is really Biblical ... Does anyone have a good grasp of this issue, and whether or not there are serious problems with Middle Knowledge?

One other note: All day yesterday up until late last night, Safari was working just fine. I shut my computer down last night, then when I booted up this morning, Safari would not work. Could this somehow cause Safari to not work ... ??? Maybe Safari will mysteriously start working again ......

I don't want to upgrade to Lion on my internal HD. I will buy an external HD and install Lion on that. I have lots of older software and files that I'm need to access, and I'm concerned that Lion will not be compatible .... I'm am currently running Snow Leopard 10.6.8. The only version of Safari that will run with 10.6.8 is Safari 5.1, so I'm stuck. I already tried deleting Safari and installing an older version, but they are all System Specific ....

Just when I though that Safari was working ok, it is now doing exactly the same thing as before .... I've tried deleting the plist many times, resetting Safari many times, clicking on links in my e-mail messages and other active links, which open Safari, but it still will not work. Restarted my computer, but that also did not help. Looks like the newest version of Safari has some very serious bugs .... Hopefully the developers will fix this bug soon ....

Just when I though that Safari was working ok, it is now doing exactly the same thing as before .... Error Message says something like cannot connect to server. We have seven devices that get online everyday, not counting the X-Box. So there is nothing wrong with our Internet. Google Chrome and Firefox are working just fine. I've tried deleting the plist many times, resetting Safari many times, clicking on links in my e-mail messages and other active links, which open Safari, but it still will not work. Restarted my computer, but that also did not help. Looks like the newest version of Safari has some very serious bugs .... Hopefully the developers will fix this bug soon ....

Very strange ... I opened up an e-mail message in Mail, then clicked on one of the links in the message, and Safari open right up with no problems! Safari has been working ever since, for several days now. There was one issue with a webpage I frequent everyday many times, got the same error message, but a few hours later, that webpage opened up, and is still working. I don't use Proxies. We have seven devices that get on the Internet daily, not counting the X-Box, so I don't think there are any problems with our Internet connection, the Modem or Router. I've tried several other browsers and they are working just fine (Firefox and Google Chrome). I'm wondering if perhaps there is a bug in Safari (as other people have suggested) .....

Something is terribly wrong with Safari ... I keep getting a error message: "Safari can't connect to the server." "Safari can't open the page "http://www.apple.com/startpage/" because Safari can't connect to the server "www.apple.com". Doesn't matter which webpage I try to access, Safari doesn't work anymore. I've tried deleting the Cache, Cookies, plist. I just deleted Safari altogether and all Safari files that I could find, emptied the Trash, then downloaded the most recent version of Safari from Apple, and installed. Still have exactly the same problem. Several days ago, I Reset Safari, which fixed the problem for a couple days. I've tried to Reset Safari many times today, but still have the same problem .... Is this an issue with Snow Leopard 6.8? Any ideas how to fix this issue ... ???

All I'm saying is that mysticism isn't idolatry, witchcraft, soothsaying, false prophecies, astrology, magic, etc. Though many Christian's like to believe it is. Several of God's people in the bible like Paul and John have mystical elements to their experiences and writings. And mystics like John of the Cross and Catherine of Siena have attained a higher level of Christian faith and fruitage through it. The word is twofold. It comes from the word myeo meaning to initiate or consecrate, and myo, meaning close the eyes or mouth. Myticism is the higher consecration of man. And the question remains whether mysticism is genuinely scriptural, even in it's Christian form. It's difficult to define the word even in Christian terms. It's doubtful that there is any biblical support for mysticism. It's not an obvious occurance in scripture unless we deduct it ourselves in our interpretation. One meaning is to press beyond the external forms of religion to an attempted direct knowledge of God. The word isn't found in scripture. All you're saying is that you disagree and we disagree. Your disagreement doesn't change the truth and reality. The truth and reality are as stated, and the Scriptures do apply to the topic. Your narrowing the topic down to something isolated doesn't change the absolute facts that the larger picture still exists. In other words, you're arguing against facts that are intentionally addressed bluntly by the Holy Bible. Mystic MYS'TIC MYS'TICAL, a. [L.mysticus.] Obscure; hid; secret. The above is the big picture. If you still disagree with the facts - that's your problem. It's like saying this marble is blue, so marbles of other colors don't exist. Sure they do - you just have to look at other marbles. In other words, you're saying that because there are good examples that bad examples don't exist. Regardless, I'm through with this topic until new and anticipated information is posted. What do you think about Rick Warren and his staff members promoting books by the late Mystic Henri Nouwen? It shouldn't be hard for any true believer in Jesus Christ, who believes the Word of God (the Bible) to clearly understand that Christians should NOT be promoting books by Henri Nouwen!

And herein lies the problem .... The cults use these terms that are biblical to their own advantage, often seemingly harmless, like meditation, for example, which in the realm of Mysticism can easily lead one straight into the occult. Many people think they are entering the presence of God, when in fact, they are opening up doors to the other spiritual realm, with demonic activity instead .... Even signs and wonders can be from the enemy, deceiving many, as we see with Todd Bentley and associates ......

Good words of advice! I've started a document on my own, listing various terms and phrases that are used within Mysticism, New Age, and related practices. While reviewing these terms, I can see clearly the deception that the enemy is using .... Just a few terms I have listed so far include: -- center down, emergent church, centering, contemplative prayer, soaking -- grounding, divine center, quietism, meditation -- Christ in you (used by Mystics and the cults!), communion with the Divine, Master -- chanting, visions, dreams, revelation, meditation spiritual exercises -- contemplation, inner search, unity -- ancient wisdom, hidden mysteries, secret knowledge -- breakthrough, deep, presence of God, positive thinking -- energy, Christ-consciousness, healing, crystals, pyramids -- guided imagery, holistic, unity, transformation -- awakening, networking, rebirthing, yoga, trance -- channeling, therapeutic touch, relaxation, visualization -- bliss, harmony, God-consciousness, universal love -- self-realization, the I AM, higher self -- cosmic Christ, fall of man (not a Christian/Biblical definition) -- God (unbiblical definition), Jesus (not the Jesus of the Bible) -- avatar, Kabala, karma, Kundalini (very dangerous!!!) -- covenant, breath prayers, signs and wonders, contact with ascended masters -- soul travel, near death experiences, spirit guides -- positive thinking, possibility thinking, words have power -- speaking things into existence -- imaging, visions from Mary, apparitions related to Mary -- crying statues, slaying in the spirit -- laughing, strange sounds (related to Kundalini) With a little discernment, it's easy to see how the enemy can take what seems to be harmless, and fool people into following after doctrines of demons, and suck people right into the trap .... As is common with the cults, some terms are familiar with Christians, and seem to be ok, sound good, are enticing, attractive, seem harmless, but remember that these terms can be very deceiving, and lead you into something that is not as it seems .... The enemy comes as an angel of light, deceiving many .... May I copy this and keep it for myself? It is good to see them placed together! Love Steven Sure, go ahead and copy and post wherever you would like. If you want the full version, PM me .... (I'm still working on adding more terms, with definitions, examples, and references, to all the terms and phrases I'm compling).

I don't believe there's anyone in this thread who supports mysticism or has a low or complete disregard for the Word of God. If you want to discuss mysticism in the church than do that, but leave your judgments at the door. I wasn't referring to anyone in this thread .... Just checking, My apologies. Post deleted. No problem! I think sometimes my brain is outpacing my typing ... Could be my ADD, or just that I'm up way past my bedtime .... It's been really frustrating, trying to find people I can discuss these issues with, without getting blasted at every post I make! Some Christian forums are not very open to discussing this issue of Mysticism, unless you fully support Mysticism!

If anyone "plays" with lucid dreams and ends up on the wrong side of the fence, it's only because they are the ones who wanted to go there. There's danger in playing on the internet. In less than 30 seconds I can be visiting any number of unsavory sites. What makes these 2 things comparable is they can both be controlled. What makes these things distintive from one another is that while they can both be controlled, one can be shut off, the other one can't. We have the free will to pick and choose what we want in this world. The devil cannot force us to play his game. Those who fall prey to Satan, do so out of willfulness or ignorance of the Word. The Lucid Dream has no power of it's own. It's boundaries are defined by where we are willing to take it. Sin begins and ends in the heart of the believer. John 10 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father

You're awake the whole time. wow, you can actually do that!? Sounds amazing and since it's a dream it doesn't matter! It actually does matter because you're the one in control. Unlike a regular dream, Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams are experienced in a state of total consciousness. You know what's happening and have the ability to stop it at anytime. This is something new to me .... I've never experienced this ... I'm wondering if this experience with lucid dreaming could open up the doors to evil spirits .... ???

I don't believe there's anyone in this thread who supports mysticism or has a low or complete disregard for the Word of God. If you want to discuss mysticism in the church than do that, but leave your judgments at the door. You would be surprised at just how many people on Christian forums actually do have a low regard for the Bible! Again, I wasn't referring to anyone on this thread, but rather other forums I've encountered ...

I don't believe there's anyone in this thread who supports mysticism or has a low or complete disregard for the Word of God. If you want to discuss mysticism in the church than do that, but leave your judgments at the door. I wasn't referring to anyone in this thread ....

Good words of advice! I've started a document on my own, listing various terms and phrases that are used within Mysticism, New Age, and related practices. While reviewing these terms, I can see clearly the deception that the enemy is using .... Just a few terms I have listed so far include: -- center down, emergent church, centering, contemplative prayer, soaking -- grounding, divine center, quietism, meditation -- Christ in you (used by Mystics and the cults!), communion with the Divine, Master -- chanting, visions, dreams, revelation, meditation spiritual exercises -- contemplation, inner search, unity -- ancient wisdom, hidden mysteries, secret knowledge -- breakthrough, deep, presence of God, positive thinking -- energy, Christ-consciousness, healing, crystals, pyramids -- guided imagery, holistic, unity, transformation -- awakening, networking, rebirthing, yoga, trance -- channeling, therapeutic touch, relaxation, visualization -- bliss, harmony, God-consciousness, universal love -- self-realization, the I AM, higher self -- cosmic Christ, fall of man (not a Christian/Biblical definition) -- God (unbiblical definition), Jesus (not the Jesus of the Bible) -- avatar, Kabala, karma, Kundalini (very dangerous!!!) -- covenant, breath prayers, signs and wonders, contact with ascended masters -- soul travel, near death experiences, spirit guides -- positive thinking, possibility thinking, words have power -- speaking things into existence -- imaging, visions from Mary, apparitions related to Mary -- crying statues, slaying in the spirit -- laughing, strange sounds (related to Kundalini) With a little discernment, it's easy to see how the enemy can take what seems to be harmless, and fool people into following after doctrines of demons, and suck people right into the trap .... As is common with the cults, some terms are familiar with Christians, and seem to be ok, sound good, are enticing, attractive, seem harmless, but remember that these terms can be very deceiving, and lead you into something that is not as it seems .... The enemy comes as an angel of light, deceiving many ....

I can relate .... I've seen the dark world of the occult, and have seen demons! They are NOT something that should be toyed with ..... Some people are not as lucky as I was .... Even though I was not saved, God still had His hand on my life, and delivered me from the darkness of the pits of hell .... Thank you Jesus ... !!!!

Lucid dreamimg is simply knowing that you're dreaming. Is that bad? Man, lucid dreams rarely happen to individual people on any kind of a regular basis. However there are people who can and do teach one how to have lucid dreams as a tool to interface with the spiritual realm, and none of them I've been exposed to are interfacing with the Holy Spirit. So, yeah lucid dreams are not in themselves a bad thing. Actually they can help people overcome sub concious fears...... but they can also introduce one to some really dark things if that's what you wander into. And that's an entirely different subject. Lucid dreams by themselves, are harmless. So are guns, but around here we don't let just anyone carry them around with them all the time. Same with Lucid Dreams; not just anyone should play around with them. BTDT. Not everyone who experiences lucid dreams is susceptible to straying. but you don't know who's reading these threads and when you make light of it you have no idea who you might inadvertently put in jeopardy by reading your post. I agree ... There are many people who are lurking .... Example: I was spending a lot of time on Facebook, discussing all sorts of issues with many people, like the problems with Mysticism, how important the Bible is, and more ... Last Sunday when I was at church, one of the young men, I think he is around the age of 17 (still in high school). He has been a wanderer, in and out of church. He struggles with various issues, and at times has been quite disruptive in church, acting funny, loud, disrespectful .... I have really been praying for this young man, and please somebody add him to your prayer list. His name is Kevin .... His family life is a total mess .... I really feel sorry for him. I come from a broken home, divorce, drugs, alcohol, abuse, mental problems, suicidal relatives, my own family destroyed, my boys suffer from terrible abuse from their mother ..... Well, good news ... !!! This young man just told me last Sunday that he has been following me on Facebook and reading many of the discussions on my Facebook pages! He has never responded at all, not even one time! I had no idea that he was reading my Facebook. He told me that he has been learning a lot from reading the discussions that I'm involved with .... I praise God for the work that He is doing, and pray that the Lord will continue to use me and others to be a witness of the true light, that is Jesus Christ, who is the light of the world. You never know who is reading what you post, and how you could be influencing them, either for good or for worse .... Forgot to mention that this young man told us that God is drawing him back to church, and he wants to make our church his home church! His family is split up, and just left our church, and this is a really difficult time for this young man. He has stopped acting rude in church, and and even joined our adult Bible study last Sunday with my youngest son, who also wants to join the adult Bible study now (they want to learn the deeper things of the Bible). Praise the Lord ....

Lucid dreamimg is simply knowing that you're dreaming. Is that bad? Man, lucid dreams rarely happen to individual people on any kind of a regular basis. However there are people who can and do teach one how to have lucid dreams as a tool to interface with the spiritual realm, and none of them I've been exposed to are interfacing with the Holy Spirit. So, yeah lucid dreams are not in themselves a bad thing. Actually they can help people overcome sub concious fears...... but they can also introduce one to some really dark things if that's what you wander into. And that's an entirely different subject. Lucid dreams by themselves, are harmless. So are guns, but around here we don't let just anyone carry them around with them all the time. Same with Lucid Dreams; not just anyone should play around with them. BTDT. Not everyone who experiences lucid dreams is susceptible to straying. but you don't know who's reading these threads and when you make light of it you have no idea who you might inadvertently put in jeopardy by reading your post. I agree ... There are many people who are lurking .... Example: I was spending a lot of time on Facebook, discussing all sorts of issues with many people, like the problems with Mysticism, how important the Bible is, and more ... Last Sunday when I was at church, one of the young men, I think he is around the age of 17 (still in high school). He has been a wanderer, in and out of church. He struggles with various issues, and at times has been quite disruptive in church, acting funny, loud, disrespectful .... I have really been praying for this young man, and please somebody add him to your prayer list. His name is Kevin .... His family life is a total mess .... I really feel sorry for him. I come from a broken home, divorce, drugs, alcohol, abuse, mental problems, suicidal relatives, my own family destroyed, my boys suffer from terrible abuse from their mother ..... Well, good news ... !!! This young man just told me last Sunday that he has been following me on Facebook and reading many of the discussions on my Facebook pages! He has never responded at all, not even one time! I had no idea that he was reading my Facebook. He told me that he has been learning a lot from reading the discussions that I'm involved with .... I praise God for the work that He is doing, and pray that the Lord will continue to use me and others to be a witness of the true light, that is Jesus Christ, who is the light of the world. You never know who is reading what you post, and how you could be influencing them, either for good or for worse ....

It cannot be tested by Scripture..... and God expects us to test all things by Scripture..... so then it is not of God.... Love Steven That is what I've been trying to share with others, but it seems that people who support Mysticism have a low regard or even disregard for the Word of God (the Bible), which makes it quite difficult to reason with them .... The scriptures have the answer: Proverbs 1:7 (King James Version) 7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Mysticism is complex and not easily and quickly defined .... The miracles we see in the Bible are simply that, miracles, not acts of Mysticism. Mysticism can start out with what seems to be harmless: meditation, concentrating, chanting, reading writings of the Mystics .... But as you get in to Mysticism deeper, it gets more involved, and you get farther away from the Bible, and farther from God. Mysticism opens the doors to spirits, which are not of God!

Richard Bennet, a former Catholic priest, along with James Sundquist, share their experience and concerns regarding Mysticism in this video: https://healtheland.wordpress.com/2010/07/17/back-to-rome-in-40-days-how-catholic-mysticism-is-infiltrating-evangelical-churches/

Very good advice! Aanyone who is interested in Mysticism, should use strict caution ... Stay grounded in God's Word (the Bible) daily. Mysticism is very attractive, especially for those who are interested in reading, religion, history, science, hidden things .... I'm not afraid to read from the Mystics, and have read from many of them, but I always have to pray that God will clear my mind, and continue to renew a right spirit within me. I do not practice Mysticism, and have no intentions of becoming involved with various programs that many churches are getting involved with (like Rick "Warren's Purpose Driven (Lies) Life," and Richard Foster's book, "Celebration of Discipline."

Out-of-body experiences (Astral Projection) is just one of the dangers of Mysticism. Not that everyone will attempt this demonic practice, but there are many other areas of danger involved with practicing Mysticism. Many of the Mystics that Christians are being told to study, and learn from, and even imitate, were and are involved with demonic deceptions (occult practices, unbiblical teachings). We must look to the Word of God (the Bible) for our source of wisdom, strength, hope and knowledge of God. Look what has happened with the counterfeit revivals, like Lakeland and Todd Bentley (just one of many examples).

Yes, Mysticism has been around for over a thousand years. Many of the ancients wrote on things pertaining to Mysticism, which involves centering on one's inner self, searching for the God that is already within (which is a false teaching). God is not already within us. We are all sinners, and can only come to know the One, True, Living God, through Jesus Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and men: Romans 3:23 (King James Version) 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. 1 Timothy 2:5 (King James Version) 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.