Elihu's Girl

Very cool...

Thank you for posting this! God bless!

I thank and praise God for his goodness. I've almost reached the goal I made a long time ago to read the whole bible. I've been pursuing my dream of being an actress. And God is so good. The show I'm in right now has been blessed by my prayers and is going well... The blessings just keep flowing in... And even better, as they flow in I'm remembering to praise. I'm growing so much in my faith and understanding... Also I'm becoming more active in my church. Praise God! He is so good. His mercy, his unfailing love endures forever.

I have a riddle...

7 G O F I A S S S (each letter represents the first letter of a word)

I found a joke... it was posted by Patrick McMahon on some other site...

A sub sandwich dressed up in tux & tails goes into a bar and orders a drink. The bartender looks it over carefully and then blurts out, "Look, I said we don't serve food here!"

Yes. I'm a concert freak. Saw BB King live last weekend.

ooooh I'm jealous!

Has the person below me ever picked blackberries?

I wish! I eat blackberries though, with much delight!

Has the person below me ever read L.M. Montgomery books (Anne of Green Gables, Emily of New Moon)?

Sorry to double post but...

"Flesh" in the Bible is refering to our ethical nature. I don't know much clearer I can get. Since this is the case, it becomes a spiritual problem and not aphysical problem. Physical sin is only a manisfestation of what has already occured in our spirit.

If your spirit is faithful to God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and you excersize using yoga poses...

My comments are in bold within this quote...

here is a quote from got questions org web site

Question: "What is the Christian view of yoga?"

Answer: For many Christians in the West who don't understand the history behind it, yoga is simply a means of physical exercise, and strengthening and improving flexibility of the muscles. However, the philosophy behind yoga is much more than physically improving oneself. It is an ancient practice derived from India, believed to be the path to spiritual growth and enlightenment.

What if you abandon this philosophy and replace it with with Christian philosophy (my body is a temple of the Lord... Love the lord your God and serve him only... let everything that hath breath praise God...)?

The word "yoga" means "union," and the goal is to unite one's transitory (temporary) self with the infinite Brahman, the Hindu concept of "God." This "God" is not a literal being, but is an impersonal spiritual substance that is one with nature and the cosmos. This view is called "pantheism," the belief that everything is God, and that reality consists only of the universe and nature. Because everything is God, the yoga philosophy makes no distinction between man and God.

What if you abandon this goal and make the goal good heath and glorifying God?

Hatha yoga is the aspect of yoga which focuses on the physical body through special postures, breathing exercises, and concentration or meditation. It is a means to prepare the body for the spiritual exercises, with less obstacles, in order to achieve enlightenment. The practice of yoga is based on the belief that man and God are one. It is little more than self-worship disguised as a high level of spirituality.

Again what if you abandon all of this and focus on your favorite bible verse instead?

The question becomes, is it possible for a Christian to isolate the physical aspects of yoga as simply a method of exercise, without incorporating the spirituality or philosophy behind it? I don't believe so. Yoga originated with a blatantly anti-Christian philosophy, and that philosophy has not changed. It teaches one to focus on oneself instead of on the one true God. It encourages its participants to seek the answers to life's difficult questions within their own conscience instead of in the Word of God. It also leaves one open to deception from God's enemy, who searches for victims that he can turn away from God (1 Peter 5:8).

What if you focus in yoga class on God, on Jesus, on the Holy Spirit and on the Word of God, abandoning the original intent?

We should be ever wary of the enemy whether we participate in Yoga or not...

Whatever we do should be done for God's glory (1 Corinthians 10:31), and we would be wise to heed the words of the apostle Paul: "Fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable and right. Think about things that are pure and lovely and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise" (Philippians 4:8, NLT)

What if the focus of a yoga class is to glorify God? What if we chant philippians 4:8 as we stretch in Downward Dog position? What if we call Downward Dog... Mt. Zion pose instead?

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I hope this helps, felix

eric

Do any of you guys think that Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 apply to this discussion?

Quoting from Elihu's Girl

Can you practise the physical aspects of Yoga without the mind numbing/mind emptying aspects? I say that you can. I say that for Sarah in the article, putting her mind in neutral and chanting was what made her uncomfortable with yoga in the first place... So she took out the Hindu aspects and uses it as a way to focus on faith, focus on Christ, build faith in Christ, explore faith in Christ. This is something for mature christians only.

"Physical Yoga" is definitely NOT for mature christians. Are we as mature christians called to be Christ-like? If then, has Chirst or any of His disciples ever needed/resorted to "Physical Yoga" or any "physical practices/actions/lifestyles" of the "unbelievers/false religions" of their days? If they didn't, what makes you think we should?

Did the early christians ever consult the ways of the "unbelievers" to keep themselves physically fit? I DON'T THINK SO! On the contrary, they taught the "unbelievers" how to live, to call, to worship and to serve the One and Only True Living God!

Are we to do "Christian Yoga" just because it is "fashion" and it helps our physical bodies? Am I also to indulge myself into the "Physical Voodoo or any African Tribal Dance for their goddess" because it is good for my physical exercise?

We need to "christianize" hinduism but not "hindusimize" christianity. If anyone wants to put on a NEW CLOTH, it should be the Hindus putting the CLOTH OF CHRISTIANITY, not the other way around! And that is something for mature christians only.

Are you saying african dance is physical voodoo?

But if I do an African dance to praise Jesus is that wrong?

If I do the movements of yoga exercises without the Hindu religious aspects... that's wrong?

Felix's post above says that Yoga is an anti-Christian philosophy. Can a specific movement be a philosophy? Or is the combination of a movement and a belief a philosophy? The Hindu Yoga-believers in the article up for discussion seemed to think that Yoga separated from the Hindu belief system (Christian Yoga) was not Yoga at all... Why do you think they felt this way?

I'd say that when the Hindu/anti-christian philosophy of yoga is replaced by a Christian philosophy, the movements of yoga become Christian.

If you do yoga chanting bible verses and praising Jesus... that's wrong?

Wonderful post!

Thank you and God bless!

Top Ten

from jews-for-jesus.org

This is wonderfully fun!

Top Ten

YES!!!!!

Does the person below me sing in the shower?

I think that we could think about this "Christian Yoga" as something different... The word "Yoga" was put on there, I believe, in part, to attract people, and to draw a connection to what it is, and perhaps to bring popularity to it.

The Hindus did not create the body, nor do they hold a monopoly over certain ways to exercise... if you can separate the hindu beliefs from the exercise, (which I believe you CAN, as apart from the beliefs, what is yoga but stretches and exercises?) why not incorporate certain types of stretching and exercise into part of your day to meditate on God's word, AND strengthen your body, at the same time?

I believe firmly that if they did not give the program the name "Christian Yoga".... nobody would have objections to it, (like, they could have called it, "Meditation and Stretching".... and there would be no protesting to this extent...)

This seems to be a weak/strong Christian thing... if you can separate the beliefs from the actions that are not sinful, then go ahead- the same as stronger Christians were perfectly able to eat meat offered to idols, without being sinful... but the weaker Christians who just recently came from worshiping the idols, may struggle with the issue a lot more.

Some people go to the gym to stretch and excercise and some take on some sport. My point? You can involve the Lord in your gym work or your sport, but you can't involve the Lord if your mind is in neutral. Satan just loves no man's land.

Can you practise the physical aspects of Yoga without the mind numbing/mind emptying aspects? I say that you can. I say that for Sarah in the article, putting her mind in neutral and chanting was what made her uncomfortable with yoga in the first place... So she took out the Hindu aspects and uses it as a way to focus on faith, focus on Christ, build faith in Christ, explore faith in Christ. This is something for mature christians only.

hello,

This speaks to me...I have been wondering about this.

To me I see Yoga as an exercise of body and mind. I believe that it's original intention was for this to be an exercise of the body and mind which eventual would create the gateway to the spirit. But my question is if it is limited to body and mind would it be okay?

Also with things like chi-kung (qigong) and seeing auras. I have not actively taken part in these things but I would like to be clear on them.

I think you should educate yourself on the pitfalls of yoga, qigong and auras. So you can find Christian ways to avoid them. You definitely shouldn't go into these practises blind. Be on guard. If they start to interfere with your relationship with Christ, abandon them. This goes for anything though...

I wouldn't participate in "yoga" in it's original form or intent, but what is wrong with using the same techniques (i.e. stretching, relaxation, toning muscles, etc)? Eastern religions did not invent the human body. God created the body, and even when sin has tainted it's original purpose this doesn't mean we throw up our hands and just let Satan (in the form of other religions) have it. Believers need to stop backing away from everything they deem "evil", and take the necessary steps to redeem those things. This, after all, is part of our created purpose...to redeem our culture. It's good and wise to point out errors and flaws in things that are false, but we shouldn't stop there. We need to take it back and restore it. I wouldn't agree with using the term "yoga" by title, but it may be necessary to use it in order to describe the type of techniques and class involved. I watched the same program on tv and the girl teaching the Christian class does not use "meditation" or chanting typical in yoga classes. She uses this time to educate the class and re-direct the focus on the Lord, and sees the human body as a gift that we can use to glorify God with. This is our purpose people, geeze.

I agree! For people who already participate in yoga if it doesn't interfere with Christ's position of first place in your life (make sure that it doesn't) then I'd say the idea of Christian Yoga is useful to you. Now you have effective ways to put yourself on guard during yoga. Rather than chanting the Hindu phrases, you can chant bible verses etc.

I don't know anything about yoga. My question is, can you still do the exercises without engaging in the separation of mind, body, and soul? Or must you actually engage in the eastern philosophy in order to perform the exercises? To me, if you can't separate the action from the philosophy, then it shouldn't be done.

You have gone straight to the heart of the matter. The answer to the question comes from Christians like Susan Bordenkircher, who was uncomfortable as a Christian with the Hindu teachings of yoga but loved the physical discipline of yoga. She found a way to reject the false teachings of yoga but keep the physical discipline. The yoga scholars in the article were outraged and said Christian yoga isn't yoga at all. Well that's perfect. Sarah B. didn't want to practice yoga as it is in Hinduism anyway, she wanted to practice Christianity and exercise using the physical poses in yoga. That's great.

I would say that Christian Yoga is good for Christians who really like Yoga but really don't like the Hinduism. If you're not sure, I'd say don't do it. There are very real pitfalls within Hindu Yoga and if you already know mysticism, world religions etc. may cause you to stumble in your faith you should probably stay away from Christian yoga, it may be a bridge taking you into a false religion. So be on guard. If you are a Christian for whom world religions have no appeal, if you already do yoga and it does not come between you and Christ, again I say Christian Yoga is a great resource for you to further introduce your christian beliefs into this enjoyable method of exercise.

Key quotes from the article.

FAIRHOPE, Ala.

A lot of my secular role models have been activists or had a spirit of activism (writing about it, singing about it). I'm reading Isaiah now and in many ways the bible, Jesus has a spirit of activism. Several of his statements incite his followers to be champions of the poor, widows and bring justice to those treated unjustly.

What are some of the pitfalls of activism? I know that secular activism can be very focused on this world while as Christians we should remember that Heaven is our Home.

I'd just like to hear what everyone has to say about this... to help me get it together in my own mind. Hopefully some of you will understand what I'm asking... I'm not quite sure I do ... but this has been on my mind.

I'm reaching a place in my faith where I am constantly being urged toward a more active faith. I'm thinking about volunteering in my community etc. I just don't want to derail into a secular ideal of activism...

Yes. Psalm 51:5, Genesis 8:21

I think it's more profitable to come together in love and the things we do agree on.

me too...

Part of his motivation may have been disappointment in Jesus, who talked of a kingdom, so he saw him as one who would overthrow Rome. Instead, He started talking about going to Jerusalem to die. Judas felt betrayed by Jesus. He had an association with the Sanhedrin so he gave Jesus up mainly because of his anger over what the Romans had died and Jesus's failure to act as the 'true Messiah' and lead a revolt that would liberate the Jews.

I agree. I think it's still hard sometimes to adjust to the fact that God sees a bigger picture than us... We wonder why things happen the way they do etc. It's hard to trust God sometimes...

Rome was just a symptom of the bigger problem. Sin.

I just think it's important to remember that there is power in the Word of God beyond our human capabilities and the Holy Spirit can succeed where we fail. Maybe someone we confuse with a complex analysis of the bible will be motivated to ask questions about the bible in their own lives. Maybe the Spirit of God can use that experience to teach them that the bible is more complex than a bunch of tired cliches... who knows? I think it is beneficial to focus on the work of the Holy Spirit when evangelizing... When someone comes to know Christ it's not because of us, it's because of the Holy Spirit working in that person.

That said praying for discernment, staying in the Word and chatting about it with other Christians is great too!

hahahaha!

I started meeting with the Christians under the ministry which I am still, after 11 years, affiliated. My first time at a Lord's Table meeting a brother asked me if I enjoyed the Meeting. I replied, "Yes. How do I join?" He looked at me strangely and said, "What do you mean?" I repeated, "How do I join this church?" He chuckled and said, "Brother, you are already part of the church."

Very cool.

I attend a small Lutheran Church. It is Missouri Synod Lutheran... In my neighborhood. It is very small and most of the members are older people. It is the church I was brought up in... Only recently (in the last year) have I really begun to think about being actively involved with church. We've gotten a new pastor, a vacancy pastor who is on fire for Christ and so... we are really growing spiritually. It's a little hard because there aren't many people my age. I'm thinking about visiting other churches for fellowship and bible study... I love my little church and I think that we can really make a difference in the community. I sort of agree with my grandmother that you shouldn't have to pass 12 churches to get to your church. So I'm thinking of visiting some of the other churches in the community. I don't think of different denominations, different church buildings as being in competition really. I think of it more as a team effort. The more the merrier.

There are things I need... so I'm not fully satisfied with my church... but then again Christ is there as much as he would be at a larger church or in a youth group... so in that sense I am satisfied...

Golly, I've never seen that "each of you" before. I double checked with an on-line Bible and compared different versions, and none of them have "each of you" there.

I have no idea where that "each of you" came from.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. (NKJV)

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (KJV)

Luke 22:31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; (NASV)

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (NIV)

Hmm... Maybe it was just my translation... (NLT)

Luke 22:31-32 Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen your brothers.

Jesus was prophecying to Simon (Peter) about when he would deny Jesus. You can tell this by the words: "I have prayed . . . that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again...." After Peter did repent from his denials, I am sure Peter recalled these words, and knew he needed to "strengthen [his] brothers."

What does "each of you" refer to?

I thought it meant in addition to Peter's failing, each of the disciples would be tempted and would fail in various ways.

Great thread. I've learned a lot guys... I've been thinking about infant baptism off and on... so thanks!

Luke 22:31-32 Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen your brothers.

Jesus was prophesying to Simon (Peter) about when he would deny Jesus. You can tell this by the words: "I have prayed . . . that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again...." After Peter did repent from his denials, I am sure Peter recalled these words, and knew he needed to "strengthen [his] brothers."

**

As for Judas, my inclination is that he like so many was looking for the "Political Messiah" to overthrow the Romans and Herod and re-establish the Line of David to the throne.

Imagine how the "Triumphal Entry" (what we call Palm Sunday) appeared this way (riding on a donkey like he did was a proclamation of kingship - recall that David's son Absalom rode through the streets on a donkey when he was attempting to usurp the throne).

When Jesus then drove out the money-changers from the Temple, that was a proclamation of authority (recall that the Temple dealings were under the control of the Sanhedrin (sp?). Also recall the the Sanhedrin was as much a political entity as it was a religious one.

But then Jesus didn't do anything else after that to assert His kingship.

Chances are likely that Judas assumed instigating the Romans to rise against Jesus would provoke Jesus to rise against the Romans. Judas thought he was "helping" Jesus to begin delivering Israel from the Romans.

But instead, Jesus was led away and taken to court and beaten and sentenced to death.

Judas was wracked with guilt because instead of Jesus using His power to rise against the guards and authorities, Jesus was taken to death. And since he didn't understand what Jesus was truly about, he fell into hopelessness and despair. Thus, he killed himself.

What does "each of you" refer to?

But I have heard that about Judas wanting Jesus to assert his power and be an earthly king... I think it was suggested in the film Jesus of Nazareth... This possibility clears up the cloudiness of Judas' remorse and suicide for me.

I can't remember where I read it, but I recall reading a supposition that Judas thought Jesus was there to establish the Kingdom immediately, and his betrayal was intended to force Jesus hand at overthrowing the Roman occupation and re-establishing the Kingdom to Israel then and there. When he found out that Jesus wasn't going to do that, he realized his error and killed himself in remorse. However, that is not Scripturally supported and so is just conjecture

Yeah, I'd heard of this before... again... I think it was in the film Jesus of Nazareth. But it makes a lot of sense scripturally (sp).