thepreacher

Would anyone like to suggest another topic to cover like we have with repentance? Just about any subject would be fine. Faith, baptism, resurrection, how about judgements, or love, maybe anger??? We can see all of what God says about a subject just from what he says!

Cajunboy, Cajunboy::: My discernment interprets Matt 7:21 as stating that "Unless the works are being directed by God, you do not collect "Go to Heaven" points for doing things on your own, just because YOU felt it was the right thing to do. thepreacher, Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven True! No points for doing our own works. But in order to do God's will we have to rest from our works and do his works. Or if you prefer, let him do his works in us. John 14:10, 1Cor 15:10 Also, not all the "Other gods that Our Lord God is referencing are "Spiritual" gods . He can also be referencing gods as in Power, Money, knowledge that we allow to overtake us in the secular world that may soon get us into trouble because we may tend to put them ahead of God. Let me ask you a question now? Do you think that when we stop listening to God call on our lives and do things our own way, that in essence we are telling God that we don't trust him, or that we think HE is a liar? Because if we fully trust HIM , shouldn't we be following HIS word and HIS plan for us. If you have not found that calling, I suggest you continue your walk with God until you do! Blessings Cajunboy thepreacher, To try and answer your question. Please let me know if I didn't understand you correctly. Your question implies "stop listening to God" that at one time they listened. If they once listened and followed God, then stopped it would imply to me that they (might) have become reprobate. It depends on how far a person has fallen to determine if they can listen once again. There are both examples in the scriptures. Yes to fully trust in God means we would endeavor to do whatever he says, the way he says to do it, believing in the reasons he says and the results we will receive if we obey. Remember HOW we know that we know and listen and follow God. 1John 2:3-6

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF CHRISTIANS COULD AGREE. My final conclussions! And yes, please give your thoughts on all these things. One more point. In no way am I saying these works actually save us. God saves us! But these commands still have to be fulfilled in us. 1. First of all we know that repentance is the first thing Jesus taught. Mat 4:17 2. Not only is repentance the first in position but also first as in primary or most important. The term "first principles" in Heb 5:12 in Greek means primary importance. Of coarse this holds true for all 6 things listed in Heb 6:1-2 but repentance not only being listed first but also the first teaching John the Baptist taught and Jesus Christ taught and the apostles. So this agrees with all the other scriptures in this matter. 3. Furthermore Heb 5:12 shows that this foundation is the first "oracles of God" or teaching. So they are God's works not ours. Also notice it is the milk of the word of God, denoting the first thing a person needs as a babe in Christ. That is the whole foundation of coarse not just repentance. Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Again showing it is the "principles" or not only first things needed but also the most important things to understand or a person cannot build any further in the Lord. 4. Heb 6:1 The word "doctrine,KJV" in Greek is "logos" or the image of Christ. This shows how important this foundation is. If we want to be in the IMAGE of Christ, we have to have his foundation. What ever God says is required in this list, He has to see that they are completed in us in order for us to receive salvation. It doesn't matter to me if you believe in free will, predestination or God doing all the work in you himself. The important thing is that all the requirements of God be fulfilled in the end. Mat 7:21-29 and 1Pet 2:1-8 Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine (image) of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. When the writer of Hebrews says "not laying again the foundation" that is because he is speaking to the Hebrews of the church that are already Holy Spirit filled, and have the foundation of Christ. But are starting to fall away forgetting what they have learned and not growing in the Lord. Repentance being a commandment of God. If you read just part of Mat 7:21-29 you will see that these people think they are true believers in Christ. Jesus didn't accept that as true faith. None of their good works or even saying and honestly thinking they believed in Jesus Christ. Why? Because they still didn't do the will of God in Mat 7:21. So HOW were they not doing the will of God? Jesus says in Mat 7:23. They were workers of iniquity. What does this mean? The word "iniquity" in the Greek means law or commandment breaker. BUT! That isn't even the most important part because we all break laws and commandments. The complete term "work iniquity" means that these people not only actually broke the commandments but worked at breaking them multiple or thinking up ways of not needed to do God's laws at all. This also denotes that they would think it was okay to break the laws of God and teach others to break the laws also. They had no idea they were doing wrong and even tried to defend themselves on judgement day. How would they do this and still think calling on the name of Jesus Christ would save them? It was because they did not think the laws or commandments of God were required of them. Actually God the Holy Spirit does the works in us. This then would be denying the works of the Holy Spirit. That is the only sin a person cannot be forgiven. See how important it is! AND I DON'T MEAN THE MOSAIC LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS. What does this have to do with repentance? These people obviously never repented in the first place because they were not showing works proving repentance that God requires. So all the works that looked good to them became "dead works". These works that would not lead them to salvation. 5. How do we know that we know God and are part of his kingdom? 1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. This all means that a person must "repent from dead works" and "show what God says are works showing true repentance" or a person would not receive salvation. Notice also that 1John 2:3 says "if WE keep his commandments". So what does this scripture prove? Be honest. It doesn't say WHY. In other words it doesn't teach free will, predestination or God doing the works in us. It doesn't say that they saved us. It just says if WE see that we have done these commandments, then we can know that we know him. If we don't keep his commandments and still think or feel we know God, then we are just fooling ourselves and maybe some other people and really God considers us a liar. 6. What are the dead works we need to repent of? A. Not believing you have to do the commandments of God, or doing them for (other reasons) than what God says they are designed for, either way. Not repenting from dead works is one commandment. B. Not repenting correctly and doing the works God says are showing true repentance, which are the rest of the foundations to start with. Then showing the fruit of the Holy Spirit. C. Worshiping false gods or religions. This includes practicing things that they teach such as lording it over other children of God. Teaching immorality. Teaching it is okay to learn from false teachers. D. Getting your spiritual understanding from false Christian churches. Understanding that you wouldn't go to another religion to understand Jesus, but Christians do go to many false Christian churches. Or religious leader today or in history, or even our own wisdom. We need to go to the scriptures and God only. E. Not repenting from murders, sorceries, fornication. This means practicing these things and thinking you can still receive salvation while continuing the practice of any sin. F. Not being zealous enough in the Lord

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF CHRISTIANS COULD AGREE. THE FINAL SCRIPTURES ON REPENTANCE! My NEXT post will be my conclusions on all that I have learned so far. The Greek parts of speech, for the next scriptures on repentance The English equivalent is: repentance 44th Scripture is: Mat 3:8 (1-12) Bring forth fruits showing repentance. Assuming the fruit of the Holy Spirit. 45th Scripture is: Mark 1:4 (2-8) John's baptism was of repentance leading to remission of sins. 46th Scripture is: Luke 3:3,8 (1-14) John preaching the baptism of repentance leading to remission of sins. 47th Scripture is: Luke 15:7 (1-10) Heaven is joyful over one person repenting 48th Scripture is: Act 13:24 (13-41) John preaching the baptism of repentance leading to remission of sins. 49th Scripture is: Act 19:4 (1-7) John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance. 50th Scripture is: Act 26:20 (25:23-26:23) Paul said, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for (showing) repentance. 51st Scripture is: Heb 6:1 (5:11-6:8) Part of the foundation of Christ "repentance from dead works". 52nd Scripture is: Heb 12:17 (14-17) Part of the foundation of Christ needed for salvation. THE FOLLOWING ARE MY NOTES AND THOUGHTS ONLY, NO DEBATE NEEDED. Since this is the last of the scriptures in the new testament on repentance we can all start discussions if you like. I will finalize my thoughts in my next post and ask some questions. SO FAR I HAVE CONCLUDED FROM THESE SCRIPTURES: A. Repentance is a commandment from God: Acts 17:30, Matt 3:2,4:17, Mark 1:15 B. Everyone must repent Jews and gentiles: Acts 17:30, Mark 6:12, Luke 13:3 &5, Act 5:31 C. The dead works so far that stop you from being born again and entering the kingdom of heaven. 1.believing in false gods: Acts 17:30, Rev 9:20 2.being a Pharisee or persecuting Christians: Acts 26:20 3.believing in living under the old Mosaic laws and Pharisee, Sadducee or Jewish leaders: Acts 2:38 4.following or getting spiritual food from false Christian religions. Rev 2:21,22 5.not believing in the works of God and repenting: Mat 11:20,12:41, Luke 10:13,11:32, Rev 9:20,21,16:9,16:11, Rev 2:21 6.not repenting from , murders, sorceries, fornication, thefts. Rev 9:21 D. So far only born again believers should have but might not have repented yet, of everyday sins. E. Repentance is a work or something we must do. It is one of God

It is the trusting heart of a child who, when his father bids him jump into his arms from a height, does so, KNOWING and TRUSTING that his daddy will indeed catch him safely in his strong and loving arms! That is the trusting heart of a child that God is looking for. Not a distrustful mind of a child that stands there and weighs is all beforehand, but rather doesn't think about it, and jumps freely and with abandon! As far as the universe is concerned--we are the centre of God's universe! We are the apple of His eye! Praise Jesus! Floatingaxe, Just a question from me. If a person hesitates for a couple minutes and then in humility decides to accept the truth; do you think God would reject them? I don't think so myself. Then what is meant in Mat 18:4. Jesus said the greatest in the kingdom will have the quickly used humility of a child as you say. Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. I agree God would probably like all of us to have the best possible humility but then everyone can't be the greatest in the kingdom. The scriptures speak of the greatest and the least and everyone in between in the kingdom. Do you think this sounds right to you?

faithquestions, As you said, "It all serves to make the teachings of the Bible more readily accepted,

GodsLove26, That is a great quality to have. God says what he means and means what he says and we should believe him!

systemstrike_7, I understand about children in general but Jesus said we need a child like attitude of humility. He did not say every child would have that quality. Just the same in everyday life. A person should copy the good things people do, not dwell on or imitate the bad. Just my thoughts.

Inj, Very good thoughts. I am in complete agreement. Well, at least until they are teenagers??? But! That is good in one way, because they are usually still home for us to help them through those tuff times. My one son after growing up said 'and everything you told me was true'. That made it all worth it.

juan77, You sound like your full of joy and on the right path. Yes God wants us to help each other and show the fruits of the Holy Spirit. God bless you!

truster, Thank you for your reply. Just to let you know my belief on this part of free will, foreknowledge and predestination. As long as you have the humble attitude Jesus Christ said you need to enter the kingdom with, I won't even really concern myself with where you think you got it. I am just happy you have it! There is however a question, not to argue but of how you understand the wording in Mat 18:4 "Whosoever therefore shall humble himself

truster, Thank you for your reply. Just to let you know my belief on this part of free will, foreknowledge and predestination. As long as you have the humble attitude Jesus Christ said you need to enter the kingdom with, I won't even really concern myself with where you think you got it. I am just happy you have it! There is however a question, not to argue but of how you understand the wording in Mat 18:4 "Whosoever therefore shall humble himself

TO BE LIKE A CHILD Is it meant to have the intelligence or the attitude of a child? I see a lot of people not comparing scripture with scripture in this example. They will take Mat 19:14 (13-15) and maybe assume it means the gospel is simple because a child is simple minded. So the gospel must be simple enough for them to understand. Of coarse this being an assumption is questioned by many others and rightly so. Jesus said the kingdom is open to those who are like a child, but in what respect would a person have to be like a child? 1st Scripture Mat 19:14 But1161 Jesus2424 said,2036 Suffer863 little children,3813 and2532 forbid2967 them846 not,3361 to come2064 unto4314 me:3165 for1063 of such5108 is2076 the3588 kingdom932 of heaven.3772 The "of such" in Strong's means: to denote character. So how is the child acting? What are they doing that Jesus is saying we should emulate? Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as (like) a little child, he shall not enter therein. Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as (like) a little child shall in no wise enter therein. Again the word "as" means like a little child. Of coarse this doesn't mean for us to be as or like a rebellious child. That should be common sense. Why should it mean that the gospel is simple because a child might be simple minded? I don't think so but let us look further into the scriptures for a better understanding. What we are looking for are scriptures showing and inherent characteristic or something intrinsic in a child or adult that is the essential nature or of enough worthy value needed to enter the kingdom of God. There I did it, a bunch of big words that just means what is the attitude we need to inherit the kingdom of God? Because that is what Jesus Christ is saying. We need the correct attitude in order to have salvation. Now where do we find this attitude? Do we think up something? Ask everyone or read books on the bible and make up our minds sometime later. Or maybe look further in the scriptures? A NO PRIDE ZONE! AND! What do we find, but the scriptures mate as it says in Isa 34:16. In Matthew it says HUMBLE yourself as (like) a child. Still nothing about the gospel being simple! Being humble like a child to receive the kingdom of God! Not thinking you know better. Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. As a child would look trustingly in humility to their father for guidance and safety! Psa 123:2 Behold, as the eyes of servants look unto the hand of their masters, and as the eyes of a maiden unto the hand of her mistress; so our eyes wait upon the LORD our God, until that he have mercy upon us. Psa 123:3 Have mercy upon us, O LORD, have mercy upon us: for we are exceedingly filled with contempt. Psa 123:4 Our soul is exceedingly filled with the scorning of those that are at ease, and with the contempt of the proud. Or as a servant of God Luk 17:7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? Luk 17:8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Luk 17:9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. BECOME TEACHABLE AS A CHILD IN ORDER TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD Psa 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye. Psa 32:9 Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

juan77, First of all thank you very much for your reply. What you said is the start of ones journey on the path that John the Baptist and Jesus Christ set straight and made for us to follow. The foundation spoke of in Mat 7:21-27 and Heb 5:11-6:8. That is laying the first part of the foundation of Christ in Hebrews 5:11-6:8. Verses 6:1 and 2 list these foundations that must be used to continue to eternal salvation. These are the works of God and not our works so please don't be confused. The first thing you said is repentance and that agrees with many scriptures. The first thing listed is Repentance from dead works. Actually we are covering this in another topic "I Would Like To See If Christians Could Agree" under Apologetics. The second thing you mentioned was actually converting, that agrees with many scriptures also. Which in the Greek means turn toward God for guidance. Much like Paul on the road to Damascus after he repented and turned toward God for guidance by asking, what must I do? The 3000 on the day of Pentecost after repenting turned toward Gods representatives asking, what must we do? Paul was told to go to a man sent by God to preach the truth and tell Paul what he must do. Peter a man sent by God preached the truth and told the 3000 What God said they must do next. These both comply with 1Cor 1:19-21. The reason why Jesus didn't tell Paul what to do but sent him to Ananias to preach to Paul was to do his Fathers will. Because God set up the process for us to be saved also through preaching by men sent by God. Jesus always did what the Father said no matter how foolish it seems to the world. The very next thing listed in the foundations is "Faith on God". You mentioned that also. You referred to this by saying believe in, trust in the Lord and confessing that he is the Lord. What this means is if the Lord tells you to do something you trust him enough to do it. Paul did. The 3000 on the day of Pentecost did. Every example in the new testament from the start of the ministry in Acts on shows the same pattern to follow. God sends the Holy Spirit to be with someone to call them, giving them enough faith to repent. God sends someone to preach the truth to us. Although we repent, God even gives us repentance. God next gives us the faith to believe in what he says we must do. The method, the reasons why and the results of everything God says that need to be accomplish in order to save us until the return of our Lord. At that time we are completely saved in our resurrection to eternal life. Following the rest of the foundation of Christ. Reading the things listed show the doctrine of baptism(s) as the very next thing to have accomplished in our lives. This word Baptisms is plural for a reason. Remember God always shows us his method, the reason why and the result of every command he gives us by scripture and example. The study on repentance is just about over. Maybe the next subject to see if Christians can agree should be on Christ's teaching in the foundations of the doctrine of Baptism(s). What do you think?