Mark777

As we see in John 6:37-40, people can see Christ, follow Him, hear Him, be feed by Him and still not believe. They can profit from His wisdom and power by being in close proxinity to Him. Got to go for now,..........................

John 6:37-40: Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

For CC, ""Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. " John 5:24

Its funny Horizion, That there is a world full of scholars that refer to this passage as difficult in determining its exact meaning but it isn't to you. No, You are most clear. I wonder why. You have little to hang your ideas on and this is as close as you can get. So, you hold onto it for dear life. You say believers can be lost - Jesus says that He will lose nothing. HMMMM - which will I believe? Lets see.......?

Easy CC, Those that are "IN" Christ are those that have accepted Him and have been "sealed" by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption - you know - those that Christ gave eternal life to.

Yes CC, he was either not a Christian but with pious works like a good pharisee, or he is a Christian that is sinning and God will correct or punish. You know CC, God can correct him. He wouldn't be the first believer to sin. Look at David. He commited adultery, killed the womans husband. How long did this go on before the prophet came an convicted him? God still loved David, as He does the world. It isn't His wish that any should perish. If this man is a Christian, the Holy spirit will bring him to correction or kill Him....... Pray for him. Mark

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged....."

Cardcaptor: "We are ALL going to be judged by it on judgement day." Romans8:1 "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

False teachers aren't real teachers. And people can profit from something by being in close proximity to it. The dog is still a dog and the swine is still a swine. Mark

Let me ask openly: Is there anyone here that their church believes OSAS and doesn't believe in repenting of their sins? If so, please explain. Mark

CC, We repent of our sins and if you know people who don't then something is wrong with their walk - maybe they do not have one. My Holy Spirit tinks me on the head every time I sin. He is constantly talking to my soul and correcting me. And you know what? I don't do much fighting. Sometimes it is hard for me but I am a completey willing partner. OSAS is the power of Christ and with it comes a knowledge and awareness of sin and we do repent. Mark

I have answered that same question twice! They were people who were in intimate contact with believers - as people are in church. They profited from the knowledge of the truth and the presence of the Holy Spirit in the true believers there. Now that was simple. And again, you pick on several difficult passages - with vague phrasology but completely ignore clear passages that say no one can lose salvation - "...I will lose nothing." And if you will read just a few posts up, you will see that someone else answered it also. Mark

Ovedya, I think all sin is the same and all sin has been paid for. If we accept Christ the payment is applied to us and we are sealed, given eternal life, and bought by God. He automatically starts to improve His investment by feeding us and pruning us. What sicknesses we have He treats. He is able to keeps us and deliver us. We are not our own. We are His property. He will sanctify us completely. Mark

So anyone who disagrees with you has a poor understanding - your funny. Feel free to think so. Mark

You say they were Christians - I have said quite a few times they are not. So your comments , besides repeating what you have already said, are noted.

Horizion, No need for the insult, I have read your repsonse to this passage over and over. It has been answered over and over. You have a very low opinion of the Holy Spirit's abilities. You do not account for His presence. What, is He just standing around? I don't think so........ Mark

You know Peter was considered clean by Christ but he had sin. When we become saved, that doesn't mean that all sin issues have been fixed. God works with a believer and grows the fruit of the Spirit and prunes out the fruit of the flesh. It is a process. Smalcald mentioned John Hagee. The man isn't dead yet. God's timing is his own. There might be a perfect time and place for God to correct him - like the rest of us. We have more than the most common sin within us. Our very substance is sinful. When we are saved we do not become perfect beings. Our sin has been forgiven. But that is not all. The gentle Holy Spirit comes and lives within us and empowers us to fight the good fight. God wants our efforts. Exercise is the best road to growth. Mark

No damage! The Holy Spirit is there to correct every problem. The very thing you guys do not consider at all is that we are indwelt by God Himself. He has recreated us making us new with a new nature. That nature never wants to sin it fights the flesh. God knows the hearts of all people. We will see if these examples you raise are examples of trueChristians or not. The Bible mentions believers that will be punished for sin by fire but they themselves will survive. I have brought this up many times. The Christian walk is a process of growth. All Christians have sin in their life but what they do not have is the enjoyment of it. The spirit and our new nature fight against sin. It isn't the same as it was before we were saved. Christ lives in us. If you think that the flesh can out do the forces of God - yo be crazy, man. Mark

Butero, You are in our prayers for fast healing. Mark

I disagree,Butero. I find it an important discussion and believe it should go on. If the present participants are tired - take a break. I am having to take a break because of buisness but I will be back and there is a lot to cover. Just reading what has been posted has me chomping at the bit................. Mark

I will not be available for a while. You guys keep it up. Remember, I am right and every one else is wrong. <that was a joke Mark

Horizion, You feel that way because you have an "us and them" kind of thing going. I can only speak for myself - I became a OSAS person through personal Bible study while I was going to an Assemblies of God church and had questions about losing my salvation. I did not run into Calvinistic teaching for a few years after that. It came to me from a straight reading of Scripture. I was set free from a load of guilt and fear that certain churches shovel at you. Mark

Its been addressed several times by me. You don't like the answer so you pretend not to have seen it.

Smalcald, Your question: Does a saved Christian need to repent of thier sin, and why? Was answered. I answered it. Maybe you missed it in the fray. My answer was yes. Believers are called to participate in their walk and to become aware of the truths of God. Peter was considered clean by Christ but only needed his feet washed. Think about it. St Worm: "The OSAS position hinges completely on the idea that all of the warnings given in the NT against falling away were made to people who did not have "true saving faith." Wrong and you have been in this discussion long enough to know better. Mark

Sounds like everyone is tired. I would like to thank everyone for an interesting conversation. Mark