LadyRaven

I'm going to give you some insight into my life, hopefully people will understand the purpose for which it was intended.

About 10 yrs ago, I was a fully functional, fully employed individual. I managed a storage facility. I had few physical problems (asthma, allergies) and the last remnants of health-care until my divorce from my ex-husband ended that (he was military). I ended up uninsured because I could not afford the 400$ per month it cost to COBRA my military health-care plan. I am a veteran myself, but the local VA facility accepts no new patients until they get a VA disability rating of more than '0' (I had a '0' rating because I also had carpal tunnel, which I acquired as an Information Manager but at the time I left the service it was not debilitating to any degree.) I worked for two years, full time. I sent my children to a Christian School. I purchased a car (on credit) because the one I received in the divorce was costing me more in repairs per month than the monthly payment on that 'gently used' one. I lived with my father and saved a few thousand dollars in the hopes of eventually owning a small house or trailer. I opened a mutual fund for my retirement. I tithed. As far as I am aware I did everything I was supposed to do.

Then I lost my position. I looked for work full time. I paid for all those drug tests and Criminal record checks people want nowadays. Just before my unemployment ran out I found a position selling Filter Queen products. In 6 weeks, I earned 200$. I also tried my hand at some work from home telemarketing and made a whopping 40$ doing that. My child support did not cover my expenses. My father moved elsewhere for a period of time and we had to go on food stamps to eat. I cried each night for days. My bf at the time told me "You paid taxes for that and you need it." I stopped paying on the mutual fund. I used my savings to try to hang on to the car. Eventually I went bankrupt. My bills were consolidated and I paid one payment. Things were still tight.

My sister said "Come live with me for a while, people in MD make 12$ an hour up here as a maid." I moved there and two families lived in her two bedroom apt. I got a job taking school photos. I loved it and I felt pride that I wasn't on food stamps anymore and hopeful that things would get better.

Unfortunately, within a month I had a wreck and my insurance company would not pay for the damage. They did not understand that I was there on a trial basis and my alloted time to change legal residence was not yet up. They canceled my policy and I would have had to pay 600$ or more to reinstate it. I drove the vehicle this way for almost a yr, but I could not register the car in MD because of the damage and one can only 'visit family' for so long. To top this off, it was starting to act up and no one could find the problem. It was unreliable and I had to have my bankruptcy overturned in order to sell it because the judge would not approve it.

I transferred my position to SC and purchased a new vehicle for 1000$ and gave the other back to GMAC. I made minuscule payments each month on the balance. I took out a title loan so I could move into a trailer and I worked for the photography company for a year here. Then my1K vehicle began having electrical problems which would leave me sit randomly. Again, no one could find the problem. Eventually the fuse box just melted. No wheels means no job at the photography place. I got hired part time at a pizza place and started that whole job search thing all over again. 4 yrs later, I'm still part time at the pizza place. I free lance and sometimes I get paid but not too much. My older son graduated and my child support decreased. In the mean time, the lack of health care began taking it's toll. I have found that not only am I uninsurable, I'm unemployable. The adjustments that need to be made for my physical and mental conditions are more than any employer wants to make. I am back on food stamps and was told by DSS that Disability might be the safest financial route for me. My experience has taught me that the system is rigged.

Once you get on it's hard to get off and one cannot even partially better life without losing everything. One month I had a fluke month. I was feeling pretty good and they had some new hires. Since I have been there 4+ yrs, I got extra light duty hours training. I lost half my food stamps (It was the month they used to compute the benefits) because they would not look at my w-2 from the yr before and my total yearly income on the stubs I turned in. I lost more in food than I gained monetarily.

I'd like to believe I am not completely disabled, yet. I was sure there is something I might be able to do, so I talked to DSS about job retraining. One has to go on welfare for that. I'd have my husband's child support payments sent to the state and I'd get paid welfare. I'd get paid less than what he sends but I'd get medicaid and I sure could use that, and I could get housing and utility assistance and live better than I do now. But...the second I got a minimum wage position I'd lose the medical benefits even though I could not pay them on my own, as well as all the other aid. I'd end up, in the end, with less than I have now. It's like they want everyone to fail in life.

I agree there are people on disability who are not disabled (know personally several who are merely 'depressed' and got it). I also agree that it would be best if everyone worked and it is the church's responsibility to care for the poor. But...where does that leave me? I don't even want government aid and I feel like some think I'm sinning for accepting it and possibly getting disability because it comes from the government. The church where my membership lives could never support me, though they did offer to pay for glasses once (I held my glasses together with superglue for two or more years). First of all they are very small, and second, I think giving is not what it could be.

I so understand. I know you've been down for years, it's possible the 'feel good' chemicals (serotonin or dopamine) in your brain might be drained away from all the time you've spent feeling this way. I would see a doctor for a physical and talk to him about it.

One thing I do know is that dating does not necessarily fill the 'void' and sometimes creeps can sense you have that void and prey on you, so be very careful who you allow in your life right now.

I am praying for you, I have been praying for you since I was here last time.

It sounds to me like you gave too much of yourself away to this person. Even though she was saying she didn't want to be your gf, you hung on with the feelings you had. Maintaining a friendship with someone who is interested in you is very sticky, and I'm sure she has no idea how to do this. Maintaining a friendship with someone you are interested in is also slightly sticky and you obviously dont know how to do it. The best thing to do is back away and, if she is interested in being friends again, she will let you know. You can tell her that you are backing away and waiting to see if she wants to pick it back up at any time in the future, if you wish. It might take some of the pressure away from things even if she does seek you out in the future.

But I will tell you this. Everyone, even people we do know IRL, has things that they do not reveal to even their closest, most intimate people in their lives. There are things that nobody knows about me, not even my exes because I did not tell them when I was with them. Nobody ever will besides God, either. And there are things which you have to know people in person to know about them. You can be whoever you want to be on the internet. You are without the constraints of fashion, industry, visual cues, income, customs, etc...so you are free to be whoever you wish. And so, some wish to be better than they really are, and put themselves out on the net as if this is their true self. You do not know and cannot know who is on the other end of the keys. My profile sez I'm a 44 yr old female mother of two, I could be a 16 yr old gay man ... you'd never know it. Shoot that pic could be my sister....

Like I said before, hold your love cards, that which you give to those who earn your trust, close to your chest until you are sure that they are worth playing. Make those around you earn your trust first. Then play them. Which means there are some cards that you will never reveal to anyone over the net, no matter how sweet they may seem to be.

And honestly, think about the sister that you do have in real life. She really does love you. Return that love instead of wasting it on someone you will never meet.

I'm a good and thorough presbyterian and therefore...there must be food....

Fish need to avoid heavy lifting in the first place, then they would not get hernias

Outside Dominos:

Now Hiring

Toasted Sandwiches 4.99

the job market is bad enough here...

'nag"? that was an understatement. Windows has always been bossy

Praise the Lord, I am glad that you have income. Such a blessing in these hard times to have something independent like that.

Not to hijack this thread, but what branches of the Baptist denomination are you talking about, LR?

A few independents and several members of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, generally speaking. Most baptists are Congregational in nature, so ... it's harder to pinpoint than in the Presbyterian (where the PCUSA is the liberal wing) For example, I have run across a few American Baptist churches who were pretty conservative, I did run into a few who also were quite liberal. Not totally sure what the official word is and the website is pretty vague...

I know this is a largely Conservative Christian site; therefore this probably does not apply to many on here; however, there is a good reminder in this, and I am interested on your opinions and feedback on how American Christianity is shaping.

http://musiccityoracle.blogspot.com/2008/1...out-christ.html

I would be interested in the book, to see what Mr Horton is actually saying. I do believe that he might have a case. Most of the traditional churches (Methodist, Presbyterian, Reformed, Episcopal, etc) and some of the allegedly evangelical ones (Baptists for example) seem to have branches of the denomination where they dont even recognise the authority of the Bible or they dont believe it to be inerrant/infallible. You get the social gospel, liberation theology, and the like on one end of the spectrum and adherence to rules and traditions on the other. And people who just sleep in the pews and dont let the gospel affect their world-view, much less their lives. But, then again there are still good, Bible believing churches and people who put Christ first.

I do believe that were are in a post modern, post Christian age in the US. People like Oprah get to say they are Christians...and people believe it.

You know, when I gave my answer, I wasn't giving a 'what would be universal justice' answer. Cause frankly, justice, to me is much different.

See my husband cheated on me when he was in Korea on a year long assignment. I have reason to believe, but could never prove, that he did it for years before that. He also used pornography and made a few half hearted attempts to stop to keep me around.

I left my position in the AF to have children and homeschool them. I was a SAHM, working part time periodically when things were bad, but usually my income got ate up in taxes so I eventually stopped doing that. When we divorced, one son was in 4th grade, the other in Kindergarten.

Biblically, I do not believe that he is free to remarry. But he did. To the other woman. That never should have happened IMO. See, all he did was stay out of fellowship for the year it took to divorce and remarry, then they came before a new church as man and wife. I believe if he did not repent and leave her alone he should have faced church discipline and at that time he should have been told that either he reconcile with me before I remarried, or he would have to remain unmarried for the rest of his life or face the same discipline. They should have never been allowed to be recognised as a legitimate married couple in the church. But they are. And frankly I just did not have the vindictiveness to do anything about it. Years before that, I would have, but in the end sometimes life isn't fair and getting even isn't necessarily the best thing.

Also, I had to stop homeschooling and put my children in school, I had to work and we live below the poverty line and did so ever since we divorced. The only thing that I got to chose from this was the fact that *I* filed for the divorce (he would have left and filed a year later if I hadn't and if I had stayed and demanded that he do so as well since we were living in military housing, it would have been just awful) instead of him and made him at fault for it.

If things were just, he would have had to support me in the manner I had been used to before the divorce, which meant he should have had to give me enough that I never had to work outside the home other than for things that came up now and again and I should have been able to continue homeschooling. I should have never had to give up my dreams and my life because he sinned. Why is it that the injured party is the one who has her life turned upside down? He got to remarry, he got to continue doing what he loved to do, continue all his hobbies, and he got the other woman too. That is just not fair.

And if I had been in that woman's position, with my history behind me and I found that money, I would have taken it unless my lawyer told me not to do it. Not necessarily right or smart but that's what I feel would have been just.

(The Lord has brought some justice to my exhusband, in this lifetime, and I have learned to be content, but...I was speaking of the time right at the divorce and shortly after...)

I've been reading this thread with interest. Chose not to say anything at first cause it's not really something I studied much. So, like this isn't really studious commentary or anything. But...

As far as Rabbis saying...anything...it's like saying that preachers teach whatever it is. Judaism is not homogeneous any more than Christianity is theologically. Some branches and sects are more mystical than others, for example. I personally would believe that if any do teach this, it would come from a mystical belief system more than a standard one. Though I could be wrong.

I do not believe this book is the holiest of all the books, because, as was said, it places it above the rest, some of which, like Romans and Galatians explain the gospel past the baby stage and some of which, like Leviticus and Deut, explain the law. I cant imagine that this book would be more important or sacred than those.

I believe it is first a foremost a book about the sensual side of wedded love. I haven't studied it because when I was married my husband was not into bible study (I married him when I was backslidden and well, you reap what you sow) and I didn't want to study it by myself. And when I was single and a virgin, the leader of the Hebrew Christian Fellowship that I attended told me that he'd let me borrow the teaching tapes once I got engaged. I still respect his judgement on many issues and thus believe that now that I am divorced, I should leave it alone. However, I have heard some other teachers that I respect do short sermons on it and it leads me to believe the imagery is very, um, very sexual.

I do get where people that like to spiritualise it into a book about Christ and the Church though. Part of that comes from the Puritan legacy where people's knees were erotically charged. Part of that comes from the Catholic legacy where the scriptures always have a spiritual interpretation, even when it is about something mundane like a list of names. But part of it is based in the true knowledge that earthly marriage is typological. It represents the relationship between Christ and the Church. I'm not gonna say how far you should take that in relationship to the book in question because...I really haven't studied it.

As far as the use of the term erotica. Just because the world uses a term in a bad context does not make it a bad term. It's the definition that is important.

(Meriam Webster)

erotica

One entry found.

Main Entry: erot

I learn more from ya'll than you could ever learn from me.

Upstream someone doggedly determined to ask, "What is the purpose of this thread? That seemed a little imperial to me, given the obvious thought is based around the dynamics of what we believe salvation and the requirements of salvation to be in the common faith. All I know is that I was a real wise old owl when I was born again and I knew everything about God. I wondered how come no one else could see the truth.

Lady Raven asks in a spirit of both fun and philosophical posturing "Well what good is an opinion or belief it is not the right one?"

I rally around that flag and I subscribe to the cross also. But there is a vast spectrum of "seemings" that get ignored. Those from the OT times had heard a theme from Moses that One was to come who was a great prophet and deliverer. But they never heard his name nor they never sat under a pastor who preached his salvation. But Christ led that captivity out of hell when He ascended on high and gave gifts unto men. I suspect that somewhere in the infrastructure of the common belief the God of all grace is going to save a lot more people than this elect little group (Christianity as a whole) who storm the world with vague innuendo of what the plan of God is. And when you see the various belief sets based on the same scripture blocks, it is hard to call it unified belief.

That is the problem with everything really. And I dont mean this flippantly.

God is infinite. Scripture is TRUE, ultimate truth. And on one level we can read and know what is true and right. But what is true enough for a child to grasp keeps theological types with big egghead brains entertained for an entire lifetime of spiritual paintball. And yet we still see through the glass darkly after their battles are stood down for a time. I cant remember the verse, but it is in there somewhere. The reason is that God crammed as much of His infinity as He thought was good for us to know in Scripture. But it is still divine baby talk after a fashion. We will not know as God knows and never can.

The other reason is that well, we're all human and thus flawed. And our flawed thinking leads to flawed doctrine. Someone has to determine develops that flawed doctrine and what that is, but in truth, that someone is evaluating all that stuff is human too. This does not mean, from my perspective, that it is all useless (though it might be in the sense that we'd all like to know exactly who is wrong before we get to the end of things and we wont). The journey, the desire for truth, the growth are all valuable in their own right. We run the race not just to get to the end. God could have just deigned that the second we were saved we'd be perfected. The end is the final goal, but the race is part of the thing too.

There is a reason that God has decided not to come down to earth (YET AGAIN) to set things straight and proclaim that exactly 9 angels can dance on the head of a pin because, if there were 8, it would be the wrong number for some reason and ten would just be overkill...or that of course the relationship between man's will and God's will runs exactly thus and so. I do not know what that reason is, just that He must have one or why else would He allow division and thus obviously error (I mean either the Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday, it cant be both as they exclude each other)?

I am not saying I have an answer. Just a suspicion. I am not saying I am going to run amok and be a loose cannon of some alleged diabolical attack to the nuances of Kingdom living. As much as anything, this thread was designed to make people think about a basic concept and to initiate a response from the heart.

Do not look too closely into the heart of man without a facemask...

As would be expected, there have been many pronouncements and judgments and questionings of the validity of one who would dare conjecture such an approach as to infer something may be wrong with the tenets and beliefs of what we assume to be a dogmatic plan of God to save souls.

I never took it as such. See, there are many things that I believe to be true that just do not sit comfortably with my human sensibilities. The fact that I want and appreciate grace does not always stop me from feeling it's unfair that someone else gets grace too. I mean, how would Hebraic Christians feel if Hitler or Himmler or Goering had made a deathbed confession on international tv? And more personally, the idea that my ex husband who cheated on me and ruined what I thought was my dream at the time could just repent and be accepted into fellowship with his new wife (the other woman) just barely stopped getting stuck in some place that really caused my spirit to itch. I mean I'd done it right, he'd done it wrong, shouldn't he pay?

I also posit that just because I know that sometimes God does something and I dont like it but it's still right does not mean that every doctrine I find repugnant is right because it is repugnant to me. It's too easy to go that way too. It's just that we have to be careful and not let our humanity become too involved. When we are made uncomfortable, it is cause to be careful, yes, but you dont always have to become dogmatic. Only when the dogma is called for. Unfortunately though, we might disagree as honest believers, as to when those times are. So I set that principle out there in a given context and not to make it a litmus test for spirituality.

Thank you Poindexter, for your original question and also for this response. You are a thinker, and I pray that God uses your gift for something really 'cool.'

You cannot teach those who do not wish to be taught. Ever take a real close look in a high school classroom? yeah, some of those kids are there to learn, many are not. And it shows.

You can have a godly attitude and walk and show her how it is done.

You can study together, if she wishes to study. But, I do warn against legalism here often and this is a good place to do it again. Not every study material that claims to teach godliness actually does so. Some of it is legalism pure and simple. Try to study that with her and she will baulk and she would be right. Which would put a big crimp in your efforts.

And, since you are not yet her husband and she already responds like this to you, you might want to rethink the bf/gf arrangement. It may be that you are appearing to be too bossy or harsh. And it also might be that she is not mature. But my gut tells me that it's both; which would indicate that you two should not be dating. You do not date when you are not ready to marry and these are not the traits of people who are marriage material. It would be best that you two were friends. And, if you are not being too bossy, and now you are friends, would put your words in a different light to her. They are not as threatening, as she would not see them as "I wont love you if you dont stop doing this or that'

If you do not wish to stop dating (I would do a serious study on how you find a mate quick fast and in a hurry if I were a young man nowadays - the world's system is fatally flawed and often leads to flawed marriages), and you wish to correct her...

1. Remember that women, according to scripture, are the 'weaker vessel'. This does not mean she is less valuable. It means that emotionally she should be treated like fine china. You might take a scrubber to a cast iron skillet, but if something is stuck to china, you soak it before washing gently. When approaching people I know well and I know are sensitive with an issue, it is really affective to ask questions rather than make statements. Or make statements followed by a question. Like "I dont believe that is a good idea, what do you think?" "Why do you believe that?" "How do you interpret this verse?" The so called Socratic method works very well because the person ends up making the decision themselves and does not feel pressured.

2. Remember also that we are to speak the truth in love. You are not speaking it to get your way, you are not doing it so that she stops being a threat to your walk, you are not doing it to fill a role, you are doing it for her best interests.

3. You have to be on the same page spiritually. You have to be plugged in to what her spiritual goals are and know what is best to work on spiritually. What she really needs might not be what you are trying to teach her.

See, for years I have had a rotten temper - since birth really, but it got uncontrollable in my teenage years. When I first got saved and I got mad, you could practically smell the sulphur as I spoke. I verbally hacked people to pieces, I followed them around to do this as they tried to get away to avoid doing something rash in response to me. I was violent against inanimate objects. And, if I didn't get my way, it was a betrayal of the highest order. And I may appear to calm down, but trust me, the worse was yet to come as I was also vengeful and passive aggressive. I really understood the statement that revenge is a dish that's best served cold.

But, that is not what God worked on first. Instinctively I knew that I could not and should not work on that 'right now' no matter who told me I should. In fact I never did a study on keeping your temper, never tried to practice anything. Instead, God worked on other things. Good theology. Patience. How to rejoice in tragedy. How to see that all things work for good for those who love the Lord. As I learned these things, things started happening to my temper.

I honestly cant put my finger on a date when I decided that clearing out the kitchen cabinets onto the floor was a bad idea, but I dont do that now. I might slam a door on the way out of the house so I can walk off my temper, but in the grand scheme of where I was, it's so much better. I also cant put my finger on when I learned to just not speak as soon as I got mad, to wait until I knew what actually had me peeved and how to say it without causing nuclear fallout. But I did. It wasn't until very recently that I decided to do anything about my temper, but most of the work, the hardest stuff, was already done.

Every single Christian friend and every single Christian BF I had seemed to think that you started at what seemed to be the thing that was the most wrong with me, the temper. But that was not what was best for me. what was best was that I learned how God thought (good theology) and wanted. It was best I learned to wait for things to happen and accept people for their flaws (Patience). It was best that I learned that tragedy was not to be despised, but embraced, and if I had actually embraced it, I had no cause or need to rail against it (Contentment).

It was best that I learned that the things I could not control and the things I did not like actually might have a good reason and so, I should wait before popping off and see what happens. My temper was caused by other issues. Control issues, security issues, things like that. Once those things lined up, much of what was wrong went away. And I learned to control myself during other spiritual lessons and have applied that to what is left of my temper. Learning to walk away was one of the godliest things I learned to do.

Now I dont know what issues your gf has to work on and so I am not going to say that for sure you are addressing the wrong things in her character and spiritual life, but...keep open to the idea that what looks best for her and is best for you might not be the best for her in the long run.

4. She has to respect your word. If she does not see herself under your spiritual authority because you are not married, or because she does not see you as worthy of that respect, then she will resent anything that you tell her in authority. That's just human nature. Most people will smile and say thanks when a policeman reminds them that it's not safe to jaywalk but get really annoyed when their friend grabs their arm and tells them the same thing.

5. Knock, dont kick down the door. We all have what I call dominion sensors. When someone steps into an area that *I* have earthly dominion over and points out that something is wrong, I see it as an invasion, not as helping. When they knock first and wait to be invited, I see it differently. These areas that I have earthly dominion over might be physical (like my home) or emotional (like my temper) or spiritual (like my worship practice). Some people have less of a problem as they run their dominion with a fairly open door policy. Others, like myself, are very private. If you wait for her to ask for help with something, or ask to help with something before just offering your opinion, she probably will pay greater attention to what you say.

6. Know when it's important enough to violate what I just said. If she is wearing a shirt that you do not believe she should wear that is one thing, not worth world war three, but if she tells you she wants to do drugs, open a brothel or become a Satanist, you have the right to say something. Accept it if she rejects what you say, but sometimes you have to speak and do so clearly. The trick is learning to discern the difference.

I'm abnormal!

The fact that you celebrate being abnormal shows me that you are in fact, abnormal.

Why be normal, isn't everyone else normal? (Me, I thought of a blue screw driver)

Last Sunday my pastor talked about something that happened when he was a bible school teacher and a female student told him this. Readers Digest version true story...

She was in a marriage relationship and one day out of the blue her husband left and took the car and left her with no means of support and all the bills. Including the car. So she was planning on attending this bible school and she packed and went, not knowing how she would make it. She got to the town where the bible college was situated and found a part time job as a cashier in a local bank. She barely had enough money to live on. But one day she stuck her old bank card in an ATM and entered the pin. She expected it to be rejected. But it was validated and she was in the account she and her husband once shared. I guess they were by now legally separated. But the account had a large sum of money in it. She did an internal diagnostics on the situation and decided that she would not touch the money which her husband had access to and had obviously been making deposits etc. She felt that she was honoring God in so doing and sure enough a couple days later her bank manager called her in and said she was doing good work and gave her more hours. She felt that was a good response from heaven. More work for her keep.

I thought about it a few times this week and I think it was a debatable issue. The husband left her high and dry and even left her with all the debt. Now she has his number and could take money from this account. At least until he wised up to the fact. It is a fact they are still married. I would have taken as much as I needed, thank you very please. I think perhaps she would have been blessed either way. After all it was technically her money too.

Technically, it would only be half hers. Provided it was a community property state and provided that she was left on the account they shared. And, if they were legally separated, nothing he deposited in there since the separation would count.

I would not have touched it. I do not believe it would be stealing if you are still legally married as you cannot steal marital property and money is marital property...unless the legal separation stipulated things. Then you have to go by the stipulations of the separation.

Now she could have gotten some of it in the end, and her restraint would have shown good character. I would have sue for some of it in court during the divorce. And, if I was still listed on the account, I could have procured the deposit history. If not, I would have demanded my lawyer do so. Much else would have been seen by the courts in a negative light.

Two good old boys get in a fight. Neither one is a Christian. A knife is drawn and the one kills the other. Now the murderer goes to jail and when in jail there is a prison ministry and he gets saved. So now the murderer is heaven bound. But the guy who was murdered had no such last minute chance. He got killed and is now in hell. It does not seem like God to me.

First off, one cannot presume that the murdered man had no last second chance, as we cannot see behind his eyes and say for certain that Jesus did not come and call him to repentance right that second. Nor can we presume, until we are in heaven, that the murderer is actually saved. All who are truly saved will persevere to the end, that is how we know for sure. Everything else is an educated guess.

Second, when something does not seem like God to us, it's not necessarily that our beliefs are correct. God commanded the deaths of many pagans in the OT by war of complete annihilation. When I look at that through my own human eyes, which were trained by the military to minimize "collateral damage" (ie, unnecessary destruction of property or killing of non combatants) it makes me angry because *I* personally do not like the idea of such perceived overkill. However, if a just God said to do it, and He cannot sin, then what He commands cannot be sin. Therefore it must be just. My reaction is erroneous and thus sinful (rebellion).

So, you have to start with right beliefs, right theology and draw conclusions from that, not start from philosophical hard questions with the possibility of the correct answer not pleasing us. If the correct answer does not please us, it is not God's fault it is the fault of sinful man's nature controlling our emotions and thoughts. God is good and righteous, totally Holy.

God is just. He doesn't just display justice, He defines it. Justice carries an Earned, Chosen OR Pre-determined consequence. If you dont go to work, you dont get paid. If you jump from a plane two miles above the earth with no parachute, you fall down and die. When you get justice, you get what you deserve. The wages of sin is death Rm.6:23. All are guilty of sin, there are no exceptions Gal3:22. We all deserve death and hell.

However, God is not a one dimensional being, He is also Grace and Mercy. He is the very definition of these things as well. Since he was merciful, he provided a sacrifice, and thus fulfilled justice for all who would accept that sacrifice. Those who do, instead of justice receive Grace. Every day and every second thereof is an opportunity to accept that grace. When a man dies without having done so, He simply gets what he deserves at death.

In the above example, When the murdered man got justice, it is right and good. The other man, though, received grace, which is also right and good. Justice and Grace are not opposites, they do not make God's character contradictory. They are both pieces of the complex nature of a Holy God, and both are right and holy because they are part of that character.

If you have ever suffered with depression, you find that it is sometimes a comfortable place to be. You find that you want to stay angry and depressed because it reflects how you feel and it is perfectly normal.

Yes, but...This is a recent blow, intense grief, which has to be allowed to go naturally through the process of healing. It's not like this is five years later, where we could tell her that she's deliberately stayed in grieving. It is also just after having converted, thus having to make large changes in her life in relationship to that. She has no church home and no Christian friends. This is a very very hard time.

Which to me says that such intense pain so early means that she will grow strong much faster than some of us did in the beginning. Which means she is being prepared for something which requires her to be mature early.

So...Something hard, but good, is in the future for this sister.

When you have been in the presence of certain spirits, they make you feel comfortable to be around them. It is normal for you. When they have been with you and you with them, you do not really feel lie getting rid of them.

This might be a factor.

There is another, one that a decision to go to church might help cure.

Angelique was part of a sisterhood, and she is now alone. Hopefully she will find some sisters, in RL, now, who can love and support her as she was loved and supported in her wiccanism.

You may actually need to evaluate and pray. Demonic forces are very good at keeping you captive simply by making you think you are OK with them.

I've known people who had to throw off all that they had when they were lost and i have nown some who have kept what they had and been able to change it's meaning for them.

It's all a matter of being subject to Christ and what He wants. I did give up all my occult things of all sorts. Now I dont look at things the same way and can 'reclaim' anything I choose. But I had to lay a firm Christian foundation and study what I had from before from a Christian perspective. (And, some things can never be taken back and reclaimed. Scrying mirrors might make really cool candle displays, but scrying itself can never be reclaimed)

And, a note about the spirits. Not all spirits are demons, some are angels. They are just as active in the world as demons are. In the end, if Angelique continues to see spirits, she will need to go to the word, pray and learn how to actually tell the difference so that she will know what to do and when.

There is a lot of "celtic" Christian music out there, and there are other things that can take the place ofsome of the worldly things. Somethings need to be left behind, period.

Not all secular Celtic music is pagan and very little Celtic Christian music is of the same quality as the secular. Though, there is more good stuff out there than there used to be.

If you like Clannad and Lorenna McKennet, I would recommend Moire Brennan. Iona is pretty good too, very steeped in history. Both have female vocals of high quality. Moire Brennan was not pop music, Iona has a few more contemporary songs.

It is a journey to determine which is which and what is what. Just keep being concerned and seeking HIS face. HE will take care of the rest, that is a promise.

Yes, this is true. The willingness is the key. If you are unwilling, you will be much slower to learn what God expects of you and His lessons may not be as palatable as they would be if you just asked and waited.

I would say that:

People are more impacted by their impression about your character than what you put forth as true theology.

Attitude is only part of your total character. Some people have an apparently saccharine attitude, but it is false if it is passive aggressive. You can have a great attitude and still have a fatal character flaw. If you are inauthentic and unwilling to admit or acknowledge said flaw for whatever reason, people will hone in on it and that is what they judge you by. Your whole character, what you do, what you say, how you act, and what you are willing to admit about these things define who you are to others. That is what they see. It also demonstrates your true theology, as opposed to your said theology.

If you preach love, but believe inside that it's ok to hate a certain race or a certain subculture, unconditional love is not your true theology. Love within confines and conditions is your real theology. If you preach that you are a pacifist, but are willing to trample people during a protest, you are not a pacifist, you are merely anti whatever it was you were protesting. Others are often the ones to see this when we do not.

Well, I'm not as concerned about my tv and music. I started out Wiccan. I think the biggest step was being saved. The next one was ridding myself of the tarot cards, ritual objects, witchcraft books, and my book of shadows. Personally, I think that's a lot in a very short time. I'm so overwhelmed at the moment with the probate issues and just grieving that I'm not seeing the point in making anymore changes other than maybe trying church again.

I will pray about it. I do understand where you are coming from but I am so very overwhelmed by life in general that making anymore major changes is just too much for me right now.

my brain is still in the widow "Fog". If you've been there you know what I mean.

Yes I do, I also understand that the shows are familiar to you, so they are comforting, because they are something which keeps you connected to your past. Not wicca as such, but the time before your husband died. They say that when you lose a spouse you should make no earthshaking decision you do not have to make for a year. Unless you are broke, dont sell the house. Dont get married, dont change career unless you get downsized, etc. So, I get the idea that you want to hang on to anything that is normal in your life.

And since the spirits aren't following you around, perhaps that is all that is necessary right now. What I pray is that your attitude be ready to make changes if God asks anything else of you.

Being willing to take a step, whatever it is, at the Lord's command is actually more important than actually taking all secular pursuits out of our lives because others tell us to. Sometimes God will ask that of us and sometimes He wont. With my background, I had to get rid of the things I held sacred in my previous life before Christ, of course. And I did. But that was all the Lord asked of me at the time.

In the lives of a few of my friends they were asked to take anything out of their lives which was not directly and intentionally focused on God right away. No secular TV, no secular music (one went so far as to say no Christian music that conflicted with her theology), no secular reading material (and for one, no fictional Christian material), no secular movies, no dating, no nothing besides study and things which supported it.

From the time I was saved until almost ten years later, God did not ask anything like that of me. Then I went through a desert experience, and on the other side of it, God asked me to give up my secular music and secular TV. It wasn't forever, it was for a season. The purpose was to spend time in deep study and also to loosen my entanglements. There is nothing wrong with money, but the love of it is the root of all evil. There is nothing wrong with secular music (though some songs have definitely got to go), but you could hold it too closely. There is nothing wrong with reading secular material (though some of it is bad), but does it change your world view or does it take up too much time?

At first I was miserable. I listen to just about every type of secular music (Except rap) and very little Christian. Most of it, even CCM grates on my nerves usually. So, in a sense, except for instrumental hymns and scripture memory tapes put to music, I had NO music for about two years. I hated it. Then suddenly I calmed down and was content.

Then the Lord gave me permission to listen to any music and read any book and watch any material I wished so long as I was not offended. I like fantasy and such, including paranormal, but I know it is fiction and I'm fine with it. But, it is in it's place and I am watching through eyes which are always evaluating along side the side of me that is just being entertained.

I am thankful that I can listen to secular music again because there is very little Christian music that is artistic and complex as operatic Gothic doom metal or Neoclassical ambient ethereal darkwave. But when I get an album, I tend to download it to my computer, make a play list out of it, then delete the songs that offend me and then burn it to a blank CD.

Anyway, my point is that you and anyone else should be willing to do what God asks. I think that automatically forbidding anything not forbidden in scripture directly is a legalistic act and I will condemn that. I do not believe that God asks all of us in all cases in all times to listen to nothing but sacred music. There is no demon beat, there is no music that is automatically evil. The same goes with what we watch and read. BUT... at the same time... you should always be willing to give them up if the LORD asks you to personally.

Black Tape for a Blue Girl

Lead Zepplin (lead balloon?)

The Sunflower Conspiracy

Leaves' Eyes

Dead Can Dance (One of my favs....)

Dinosaur Jr

Kitchens of Distinction

Flying Saucer Attack

Wide Spread Panic

Goober and the Peas

Faith My Eyes - Caedmon's Call

Nothing's Free - Alice Cooper

These Thousand Hills - Third Day

Valley's Fill First - Caedmon's Call

This Good Day - Fernado Ortega

All The Heavens - Third Day

I Boast No More - (Isaac Watts) Performed by Caedmon's Call

Pounding on Whittenburg's Door

and

Love's Not a Feeling - Steve Camp

Only Here for a Little While - Billy Dean

Held - Natalie Grant

Stolen Prayer - Alice Cooper

Saviour's Day - Sheila Walsh

El Shaddai - Amy Grant

And...for the untraditional -

The Groaning

Paramaecium

Ashen Mortality

My Silent Wake

or bands which sound like it