Bob Dole

You seem to ignore a lot of things I write so I'll keep this short. The bible shows us cases of God sending down his wrath on nations that are primarily unbelievers and sinners. There isn't one case of him sending down his wrath on a nation where such an overwhelming majority of people are innocent believers.

Bob,

God sent his judgment on Israel many times over, not because they did not believe in God (they did), but because they chose to follow after other gods, as well. They did not make God their One and Only God. They allowed themselves to follow not only after other gods but the patterns of the world around them. They adopted the customs of people who followed after other gods.

This, I believe, is a picture, not only of America but of the Church in America. We have become too worldly and we have adopted the culture of the world even in the Church. We have forsaken our first love and God is not our One and ONly God in America and in the Church in America. We are following after the gods of this world; the gods of our stomachs. We have become apathetic to the sin condition of our nation and of the Church.

And, we follow the teachings of men more than we do the teachings of God. Case in point: Your response when I asked you where you learned methods of prayer. You learned them from the teachings of men, not from God and His Word. But, that is where you need to learn how to pray - from His Word.

I don't recall the statistics, but there are more abortions done in the USA than in the rest of the world. I think it is like 1/3 of the population of NYC that has been aborted, or something really close to that. We don't know all the things that are going on in the government, either, but God does. There is so much going on in America and in the Church in America that we don't even realize, but God does, and he is willing to show you what he sees through his eyes if you will let him show you.

You see, my knowledge of what God thinks about America does not come from my own thinking, it comes through His revealing it to me through time spent with him at his feet daily. The Bible says we have the mind of Christ, and God is willing to show us what is on his mind if we will just ask him. Why not take some time with Him and ask Him what he thinks about all of this?

Ok I went through a lot of passages and found where God lets the Midianites rule Israel for 7 years because the Israelites were worshiping the god of the Amorites (the god of the people whose land the Israelites were inhabiting.) I think that applies to us when we start worshiping the god's of the Native Americans. I don't understand what you mean when you say we follow the gods of our stomachs so I can't really reply to that.

I learned the method's of prayer from the teachings of men who have studied the word of God. Then when I find these methods I look for evidence in the bible that backs them up and I found nothing saying how to pray so these method's should be fine. If these methods are wrong, please explain why.

The U.S. has a low abortion rate compared to other countries in the world. There are a little under 23 abortions for every 1,000 women. In Vietnam (the country with the highest abortion rate) that number is 83 for every 1,000 women. I found the numbers from this website - http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2504499.html

If you truly believe I've been asking God his opinion of this nation incorrectly, please explain the proper method as I have not found it anywhere in the bible.

Bob Dole said

Shouldn't judges have some right to say what they'll allow in courtrooms?

No. It is the judges job to enforce existing laws on the books, and not rewrite the laws

My Web Blog

You mean the laws that say the government should not show preference to one religion over another? The kind of stuff that would prohibit putting the 10 commandments in a courtroom (which would show government preference of a particular religion.)

Show me where THAT law is please.

I think you are referring to the 1st Amendment which states the following:

Amendment I: Freedom of speech, religion, press, petition and assembly.

Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an "ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION," or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It says NOTHING about separation of church and state!

IT SAYS "CONGRESS" NOT THE SUPREME COURT, which made the law of separation of church and state. The supreme court is to interpret the constitution not MAKE NEW LAWS!!!!

You have to understand the history behind the first amendment to understand what it means. Preferential assistance to a church would have fallen under establishment of religion in the United States back in 1791. That's why today the government won't post the ten commandments in a courthouse, it'll obviously show preference to a particular religion. It was originally going to forbid establishment of a national church, but in forbidding that you allow the government to still give preference to a church, they wanted to make sure that wasn't possible.

The supreme court interpreted the first amendment correctly and made no new laws.

That peace of Judicial garbage came from a private letter written by Thomas Jefferson to some preachers.

Here it is:

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter

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Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them written in October 1801. A copy of the Danbury letter is available here. The Danbury Baptists were a religious minority in Connecticut, and they complained that in their state, the religious liberties they enjoyed were not seen as immutable rights, but as privileges granted by the legislature - as "favors granted." Jefferson's reply did not address their concerns about problems with state establishment of religion - only that on the national level. The letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the Establishment Clause that we use today: "Separation of church and state."

The letter was the subject of intense scrutiny by Jefferson, and he consulted a couple of New England politicians to assure that his words would not offend while still conveying his message: it was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion.

Note: The bracketed section in the second paragraph had been blocked off for deletion, though it was not actually deleted in his draft of the letter. It is included here for completeness. Reflecting upon Jefferson's knowledge that his letter was far from a mere personal correspondence, he deleted the block, he says in the margin, to avoid offending members of his party in the eastern states.

This is a transcript of the letter as stored online at the Library of Congress, and reflects Jefferson's spelling and punctuation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson

Jan.1.1802.

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So you see that "separtation of church and state" was NOT THE INTENDED INTERPRETATION of the 1st Amendment!!!!

To further elaborate about it, here is an article from Wallbuilders.com

I don't see how that letter shows "Separation of church and state" was not the intended interpretation of the first amendment. I don't see any mention of the first amendment at all, but I might not be looking in the right spots.

I have no choice but to cry out to God for mercy whenever I see someone claiming to be a Christian siding with those who wish to bring Christianity to its knees. Those who want us Christians to go back to secret meetings and hiding who we are so we can further the spread of God's word at the price of our lives.

The simple facts of the article are this, and NEVER forget it:

Congress does not have the right to make any law concerning the way any person practices, or does not practice, their religion with the notable exceptions of breaking standing laws such as murder (sacrifice of a living human), theft of property, or such. It is a fact that most of the founding fathers were Christian, and all did acknowledge God.

The fact is, this judge knows and understands what the first amendment says and means. As such, he has left the decision up to the people. It is for the people that this law will affect to decide. It is up to the Christians of the area to work to keep God from being trampled under the feet of heathens and unbelievers.

History shows us one thing. We as Christians lose our rights to worship slowly buy taking little things away from us at a time. First we lose the right to display in "designated" places or to pray in public (take note of government buildings, schools,). Next will be limitations on where churches can be built. Next it could be as simple of legislation of times when services can be held under the auspices of traffic, or noise controls. The inevitable ending is that the church is legislated out of existance. Think it sounds unreal, and cant happen? Look at smoking, 30 years ago who would have thought that there would be debate, let alone laws against, smoking in public places.

Smoking isn't a right given to us in the first amendment, freedom to practice any religion we'd like is.

If we look at scientific evidence; The big bang, fossils, any sort carbon based dating that reaches older then the bible. We find that everything accustoms, and is adjusted to the laws of Nature, Physics, and Science. If that is so, why isn't God? Everything in the world is forced to comply. Does this mean that the magical mystery man does not have to? The more and more I think of it, the more and more convinced I get that God is just a figment of peoples imagination. To be used when in fear and Sundays. And forgotten the rest of the time.

There is no scientific evidence of evolution though, fossils, whats funny is that in fossils dates you will find older fossils on top of the newer ones with carbon dating, Evolution is not based on science, but the philosiphy of man, and mans word, everything in the bible is accurate, and as far as carbon datings predating the bible, really search it, cause the carbon datings just prove moreso that the bible is accurate, but from an aithiest point of view, take God out, and you get we came from monkeys, Hey God is real, not just our minds, if your doubting, and falling away, ask him yourself.

...there's no scientific evidence of evolution? There are the fossil records, any situation where an older fossil is above a newer one has been explained (if you doubt this, please point me to an older fossil above a newer one, and I'll do my best to explain how that happened.) Evolution is absolutely based on science. The theory was developed with the scientific method, it has plenty of evidence backing it up, and it explains so many things we see in nature. Stuff like organs or bones that exist in animals that aren't used, because they're left over from whatever creature the animal evolved from. I haven't seen how carbon dating proves the bible at all, could you please show me where you get that idea? We can still come from monkeys and God, God could have started life and the process of evolution, why must the two be seperate?

Homosexuality breeds anti-Christian bigotry as much as Judaism breeds anti-Nazi bigotry.

Elton John is proof positive that homosexuality does breed anti-Christian bigotry. His whole argument for banning religion is that it breeds hatred for homosexuals. In addition, I am very much pro-Jew and anti-Nazi. While I disagree with their political beliefs, a large part of my hatred for Nazi-ism is the way they treated the Jewish people.

There is an old song Elton John sang called "Tiny Dancer." One line says, "Jesus freaks, out in the streets." I have said they need to change the line to say, "Homosexual freaks, out in the streets," and see how they like it.

His argument is that because of organized religion there is bigotry and hatred towards homosexuals. I'd have to say that's true, they can't marry, it's hard for them to adopt, they're often tormented and sometimes there's physical violence against homosexuals just for being who they are. He's not against all Christians, just the ones that want to dehumanize him and organized religion helps breed those people by telling them homosexuals are wicked evil people who should be punished. Even if you believe that they are evil, it doesn't give us the right to punish them, it's up to God to pass judgment, not us. You also seem to mention that you're anti-Nazi and the reason why as it is some sort of surprise why anyone would hate Nazism? Just thought that was kind of weird.

Homosexuality breeds anti-Christian bigotry as much as Judaism breeds anti-Nazi bigotry.

The lesbian/gay community has God to blame for their discontent, not Christians.

We didn't make the rules...we just follow them.

The Jews have every right to feel animosity towards the Nazi's given their treatment by them.

Your comparison is ridiculous. I don't remember any compassion being shown by the Third Reich?

At least we attempt to have compassion for these societal deviants.

J.M.O.

We don't make the rules, but sometimes we follow them a little too extremely, the people who do are the people he has a problem with. Plus the rules say nothing about denying equal rights for gays, but we still do it.

quote bob: "Homosexuality breeds anti-Christian bigotry as much as Judaism breeds anti-Nazi bigotry."

Just what point are you trying to make? That anyone that hates and despises nazism is a bigot?

Homosexuality does breed anti-Christian bigotry. Just look at the war at home. Merry Christmas is an offensive phrase in this country, we are called right wing fanatics because of our faith and now we have a homosexual that believes religion should be banned from the world. EJ is on treacherous ground right now, the same path that the likes of Hitler and Stalin have gone down before.

The truth is, EJ hates Christianity because he is gay and wants to remain gay. He sees Christianity as a threat to his continued reprehensible lifestyle. Does he really think that only Christians hate homosexuality? While we are vocal about it, it's the behavior we hate, because it's disgusting and it serves no purpose except for sexually deviant self-gratification. Gays can't reproduce nor contribute offspring assexually. While I think it is a great idea that immoral people do not reproduce, who am I to say no to the birth of a child?

By condemning Christiantity and lumping all Christians together as "homophobes" he is doing a greater injustice to me (by generalizing my beliefs and assuming I hate him) and proves hisself to be a much greater bigot than I or millions of Christians have ever been.

What is a homophobe anyway? I don't know about you, but a gay person doesn't scare me at all, I just get disgusted and pray the person gives that lifestyle up and makes peace with God.

My point was that many Christians show hatred against homosexuals because they were taught to do so in church. Homosexuals are going to naturally dislike people who are against them.

Elton John knows that Christians aren't the only groups against homosexuality, he says "I would ban religion completely" not "I would ban Christianity completely." Elton John actually agrees with the teachings of Christ, he doesn't like the church or organized religion though.

A homophobe would be someone who is afraid of homosexuality. A gay person may not scare you, but if the idea of your children being gay scares you, you're a homophobe.

Homosexuality breeds anti-Christian bigotry as much as Judaism breeds anti-Nazi bigotry.

I'm confused, are you actually saying your scientific process is really to call something a fact, then change the rules to fit that "fact"?

Why was there radiation in the perfect world that existed before Adam sinned (although, Eve did sin first)? For the half life of radioactive materials to have changed, there must have been radiation that was decaying. Eden had no death, so radiation couldn't have decayed, if it couldn't have decayed it couldn't have had a half life. Maybe after sin destroyed the world it could have decayed with a very short half life, eventually becoming longer and longer as years past. That would mean in 1,000 years if the half life of carbon-14 hasn't changed then the half life had always been the same and carbon dating actually does work. That is a long time to wait, although for now I'll assume it works because there are so many problems with a changing half life. There would be some method of detecting the change that someone would have been able to prove it by now.

Bob Dole said

Shouldn't judges have some right to say what they'll allow in courtrooms?

No. It is the judges job to enforce existing laws on the books, and not rewrite the laws

My Web Blog

You mean the laws that say the government should not show preference to one religion over another? The kind of stuff that would prohibit putting the 10 commandments in a courtroom (which would show government preference of a particular religion.)

You seem to ignore a lot of things I write so I'll keep this short. The bible shows us cases of God sending down his wrath on nations that are primarily unbelievers and sinners. There isn't one case of him sending down his wrath on a nation where such an overwhelming majority of people are innocent believers.

I haven't ignored anything you write here, Bob. But let's be realistic. The Word of God is a double edged sword, and you seem to look at it through rose colored glasses, and only see one side of the sword.

Plus the bible teaches us tolerance -

No where does God teach us to tolerate sin in the Bible. While God is a loving, kind, patient, compassionate and merciful God,

and true to His Word, without repentence and a turning away from sin, God gives stern warnings in His Word of what will happen.

It is written Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction. Gal. 6:7

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Again, gonna just make this quick, here's a quote from the bible (the one you don't quote, that follows "Plus the bible teaches us tolerance -" -

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

You seem to ignore a lot of things I write so I'll keep this short. The bible shows us cases of God sending down his wrath on nations that are primarily unbelievers and sinners. There isn't one case of him sending down his wrath on a nation where such an overwhelming majority of people are innocent believers.

I looked up "Methods of prayer" and found info on St. Simeon who wrote on three methods of prayer. There are plenty of websites on it too.

If the Spirit of God dwells within, He witnesses to our spirits, confirming to us that we surely belong to God. I know this witness, I receive it daily. (Unbelievers just don't get that one) So, having been confirmed by God as belonging to God in eternity, I cannot reject His description of the origin of all things. A day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and He took six days to make all of creation, or six thousand years as we mark time, and we have been here on the planet for about six thousand more years for a total of roughly twelve thousand years.

The four hundred meters missing from Mount St. Helens since the big blast in the eighties, if mistakenly attributed to normal erosion would indicate that it took millions of years to wear off the missing height, when in fact it took about a second to blow it off.

Similarly, when Adam sinned he threw all of creation into decay. This did radical damage to all things. The rate of carbon decay does not in any way indicate the true depth and reach of that damage, nor can it therefore indicate the true age of the earth or anything on the earth. Carbon dating reveals the current rate of decay, but not the day that decay actually began, nor the amount of damage accomplished in the original catastrophic event.

Do you make this up as you go along or is there some science to this all? I hope the scientific process isn't just -

Step 1 - Come up with fact

Step 2 - Change the rules so science supports the fact

Step 3 - Profit!

Ok, perhaps you leave out Step 3. Also, geologists take into account natural events (such as a volcanic eruption, of which there is plenty of evidence.) They can tell you if there was an eruption, when it occurred, how powerful the eruption was, just by studying the area around a mountain. If the universe was really as young as you say it is, scientists would actually have really good evidence to show it.

The people who wrote the Mayflower Compact weren't the founders of this country, they're loyal to the king. Also, George Washington was probably a deist, not a Christian. Most of the founding father's (the real ones, that wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution, bill of rights, that stuff that made America what it is today) were deists.

Deists, now that's funny!!

If you were to actually read the articles themselves instead of quoting what other people have said about them, you will find that they weren't "deists," but Christian.

The definition of Deism is as follows according to Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

deism

: a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe

Here is the article about the Thanksgiving Proclamation:

By THE PRESIDENT

OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

A PROCLAMATION

Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me

undone, is it breaking the third commandment because I'm posting it on Saturday?

Bob,

The truth of the fact is, we live in a nation today, that is covering up our Christian heritage. If you check out the "Mayflower Compact," (written by the way this day in history) you will see that this country was founded on Christian principles. The following is the Mayflower Compact.

The Mayflower Compact

We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken, for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith and Honour of our King and Country, a Voyage to plant the First Colony in the Northern Parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, Covenant and Combine ourselves together into a Civil Body Politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape Cod, the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France and Ireland the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini 1620.

For more information on the founding of our country and what our forefathers believed, go to www.wallbuilders.com

Here is a link also to a news paper clipping from 1789 where George Washington is issuing the Proclaimation of Thanksgiving.

The people who wrote the Mayflower Compact weren't the founders of this country, they're loyal to the king. Also, George Washington was probably a deist, not a Christian. Most of the founding father's (the real ones, that wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution, bill of rights, that stuff that made America what it is today) were deists.

So you're saying you don't know how carbon dating works? I'm hoping someone will be able to shed some light on this. So you aren't the guy, that's okay, leave it alone. You probably didn't mean to come across as ignorant as you did.

I'm saying your question doesn't make any sense. I ask about the paint because carbon dating tells you how old organic material is. Paint using crushed berries as a transfer medium would affect the results of the carbon dating. I ask you where the sample is being taken from because the paint may affect the results depending on what the paint is made out of. Carbon-14 is constant through the entire organism so carving the wood won't affect the results (unless you contaminate the sample to be dated with organic material on the blade.) Basically, if you have a pure sample of just the wood you're trying to date with no contaminants at all, you'll find out how long the wood was dead for (it won't tell you how long the tree lived because the carbon-14 doesn't start to break down till after the tree dies.)

The main reason I say your question is confusing (other than some required information being left out), I just don't understand the relevance of the question. Were you just curious or does this actually pertain to the thread?

Carbon dating works

Carbon dating is flawed. Many samples are thrown out for having dates that dont meet their expectations of the age of a site. Moreover, I know of sites in Alaska that carbon date to 50,000 years in the future. (That was told to me by the site researchers and is not in any report.) Read any archaeology report, and they should list the carbon 14 samples and the dates they got. They should then state why they discarded the samples that didnt match their preconceived notions.

Dont believe me? Here is a portion of one article I found online quickly.

Measurements of the marine reservoir effect on radiocarbon ages in the eastern Bering Sea / Dumond, D.E. Griffin, D.G.

Arctic, v. 55, no. 1, Mar. 2002, p. 77-86

The marine reservoir effect is known to skew radiocarbon dating (marine samples appear "older" than terrestrial samples of equivalent age), but the magnitude of this effect is not the same in all locations.

Dating of marine samples from the Bering Sea should thus either proceed with the expectation that age determinations may not be accurate within several centuries, or be approached through experimental measurement of reservoir effect among restricted faunal species in limited areas.

Didn't I just say exactly that?

Shellfish remains are common in coastal and estuarine archaeological sites, but dating these samples require a correction for the

God doesn't care if the ten commandments are in a courtroom

How do you know this?

Because the bible doesn't tell us to post the ten commandments in courtrooms?

No cheating (I'm assuming you mean adultery) isn't a law, neither is no lying. No lying isn't in the ten commandments either. So you have two commandments that are laws out of ten. Plus, these are God's laws, not the laws of the nation. The punishment for breaking most of these laws (like working on the sabbath, or disrespecting your parents) is death. We give out the death penalty for murder, and even then it's rare. I'd rather not be stoned to death for arguing with my father or responding to an emergency call from one of my client's on Sunday.

One more point, I'd rather have the ten commandments posted at places where sin occurs (abortion clinics, a billboard in Las Vegas, places like that) where it's appropriate and can act as a deterrent (can you imagine a girl going through with an abortion while reading "Thou shalt not kill".)

In a divorce, who gets custody of the kids?

Not the one who commits adultry usually.

The one who wasn't abusive, the one with the job, the one with more money, it depends. The court doesn't generally look at who committed adultery when deciding who keeps the kids.

Lying under oath is too against the law.

Where do you think the laws of the nation came from?

Hmm just checked the ten commandments, it actually does say you shouldn't bear false witness. The thing is the law just says lying under oath is wrong. It says nothing of lying to your mother about who ate the last cookie. Or lying to your neighbor and saying someone else's dog relieved itself in their yard.

The laws of the nation came from the elected people in the nation and are sometimes voted on by the people of the nation. However, this includes all people, not just Christians. A satanist can make a law just the same as a Christian.

The Idaho Supreme Court has authorized an election in Boise for voters to decide whether they want the Ten Commandments displayed in a city park, and supporters of the plan say it could have national ramifications.

As more and more Christians wake up and see the moral decline in America, I see great potential with this ruling for Christian issues in general in America. Instead of the anti-God ACLU intimidating people all across America, and taking away the rights of Christians here, other Christian issues can in the future be put to a vote by the people, and let the people decide instead of left anti-God judges and the anti-God ACLU.

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Shouldn't judges have some right to say what they'll allow in courtrooms? Leave the public institutions to themselves please. As much as I'd love to see a nation of Christians, I just don't want it to be THIS nation. If we all purchase an island somewhere I'd be glad to have the ten commandments everywhere, this nation wasn't founded for Christians, it was founded for everybody. If you really don't like the idea of sharing land and courtrooms with non-believers, you can always move someplace else.

I didn't ask God his thoughts on America and where it's headed because I never cared before (still don't really care now) God has always told me what he wanted me to know. I guess my form of questioning is different, I just kind of think to myself and God sends answers that way. I don't pray traditionally (hands together, kneeling before my bed making the signs of the cross and all that) it's more like a deep thought I suppose? Although I'm pretty sure the bible doesn't require us to all pray like that (I don't think it requires any form of prayer.)

Wow, just looked it up, apparently I'm praying properly :-D (yay) one of the methods of prayer is concentrating on a question to yourself, but God hears these questions, so it's asking God (which means I've asked God because I've thought hard about this question of his opinion in America before posting.) I mean, I could be completely wrong, I was never handed a guide to being a Christian when I converted (I was born to Atheist parents in NYC, so it's a bit hard knowing the proper way to do things.) I figured if I gave myself to God he would guide me on the correct path (seems to have done that so far, but then again I could be completely wrong.)

Oooo ooo I got one, how about we get a chicken, we kill that chicken with a hatchet, we cut it up with a butchers knife, coat the chicken meat in flour, a little salt, a little pepper, get a pan with 4tblsp of butter, cook the chicken for 5 or so minutes on each side, remove the chicken from the pan, place the chicken on a napkin on a plate, keep it warm while we add 1/4 cup of white wine (or vermouth) to the pan with 4tsp of lemon juice, put the chicken back in the pan, cook for another 10-15 minutes coating the chicken in the pan sauce, and then remove the chicken from the pan and carbon date it. Do you get the age of the chicken, the hatchet, the butcher's knife, the flour, the salt, the pepper, the pan, the butter, the napkin, the plate, the white wine (or vermouth) OR the lemons? The answer is, WHO KNOWS, and scientists rarely (as far as I know) carbon date their chicken francaise anyway.

Carbon dating works, whenever I hear a story about carbon dating being wrong it's always something like a clam, a crab, an oyster. I hypothesized that there was something that affected the carbon dating results on shellfish. Unfortunately I didn't have access to a carbon dating machine so I couldn't really test my guess, so I looked on google for "carbon dating shellfish errors" and found -

Shellfish remains are common in coastal and estuarine archaeological sites, but dating these samples require a correction for the

Well no I didn't ask God, all of my reasoning comes from what the Bible says about God's wrath, and the current global situation, taking into account different statistics on different topics. Normally when God disapproves of something I get strong feelings of doubt and anxiety. I don't feel that way about our country or the issues you have brought up. Even when I ask for guidance on joining the armed forces I feel that God will protect me. I think that would apply to the country as a whole (and not certain individuals) but I could just be wrong.

America tolerates killing of the elderly and the ill among us and calls it "compassion"

The only time a person will be killed for being ill (LEGALLY! Assisted suicide is NOT LEGAL) is in cases like that of Terry Schaivo. She was dead long before they pulled out her feeding tube, I'm surprised more people aren't upset that we're disturbing God's plan by unnaturally extending the lives of people.

America tolerates religious cults that deny God and calls it "denominationalism"

Again, God teaches us to tolerate others.

America tolerates pornography and exploitation of women and children and calls it "art".

There are international laws against child pornography. Adult pornography is legal but it isn't nearly as bad as it is in most European nations.

America tolerates vile and filthy brain washing of our children and calls it music or movies.

You're kidding... so we should ban all forms of entertainment? What about the Passion of the Christ? What about religious music? That's just absurd, we're the home of the brave and the land of the FREE. If you want to ban music and movies please move to North Korea, they already do that.

America tolerates God's Holy Name being blasphemed and calls it "freedom of speech".

Well the sin is in defiling God's name. If you wrote it on a piece of paper, and then crossed it out. Or you said dog instead of God. Although there are so few people who truly blaspheme I don't see this as an issue. The people who do it will already suffer God's wrath. Again, he's not going to punish the whole nation over the actions of a few.

America tolerates taking of innocent life, and theft of property and calls it our legal system.

I don't see where you're going here? The bible tells us to execute murderers (well it tells us to execute a lot of people) and we do (however, it's quite rare.) I don't know where the legal system allows theft though.

America tolerates the taking of prayer out of school and calls it freedom of religion.

Would you like it if during the prayer a group of kids sat in the corner and prayed to satan? Would you feel safe about your kids then? What about children praying to allah?

The list goes on and on and on...

America tolerates everything except the name of the one true God, irregardless of how many who call themselves Christians.

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I really don't see how God could single out the country that most praises his name as the one country to punish in this wicked world in which we live. He punished Israel for abandoning his beliefs, he allowed the barbarians to come over and take over their land. We're taking over Iraq, and Pakistan, WE are the barbarians God is allowing to invade the non-believers land. When a muslim country is sending it's troops here and enslaving us, then it's truly time to worry.

I don't think America kicked God out. America is 75% Christian. Plus God isn't going to punish all of the people in a country for the wickedness of a few. Even when he does punish a country with good people, he always warns them, I really don't think we've angered God as much as you think. The situation in Israel that you're referring to in the bible is far far faaaaaaaaaaar worse than anything we've ever seen in America.

We are not talking about Israel here, Bob. We are talking about America.

Sorry, I read this -

The God vacuum: America and the barbarian hordes

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Posted: November 9, 2006

1:00 a.m. Eastern

In the Old Testament of the Bible, God is shown time after time chastising the House of Israel, His chosen but often disobedient people, by allowing barbarians to invade and plunder their cities and put many of them to the sword.

That is what the Western World, including America, is starting to experience today, having likewise turned away from God............

..........When God withheld His protection from ancient Israel because of the disobedience and faithlessness of His people, there was only one possible solution: They had to repent of their pride and folly and come back to Him.

Do we somehow expect the Almighty to grant a different remedy to us?

and assumed when he said "Israel" he meant Israel and not America. Although America wasn't mentioned in the bible, perhaps I was correct in assuming he was talking about the punishment brought down upon Israel?

The handwriting is on the wall for you to see, and has been for a long time. How much more do you think God will tolerate?

America tolerates the killing of our unborn children and calls it "freedom of choice."

Abortion is legal in more than half of the world. We're one of the few (if not only) developed nations in the world that's fighting to make abortion illegal.

America tolerates homosexual perversions and calls it "diversity and alternative lifestyles"

Australia has the highest concentration of homosexuals in the world, they seem to be doing quite fine.

America tolerates paganism and immoral life styles and calls it "multiculturalism"

America has the highest concentration of Christians out of all the world's nations. Plus the bible teaches us tolerance -

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Carbon dating works, whenever I hear a story about carbon dating being wrong it's always something like a clam, a crab, an oyster. I hypothesized that there was something that affected the carbon dating results on shellfish. Unfortunately I didn't have access to a carbon dating machine so I couldn't really test my guess, so I looked on google for "carbon dating shellfish errors" and found -

Shellfish remains are common in coastal and estuarine archaeological sites, but dating these samples require a correction for the

I don't think America kicked God out. America is 75% Christian. Plus God isn't going to punish all of the people in a country for the wickedness of a few. Even when he does punish a country with good people, he always warns them, I really don't think we've angered God as much as you think. The situation in Israel that you're referring to in the bible is far far faaaaaaaaaaar worse than anything we've ever seen in America.

Well, he hasn't rained fire and brimstone on us yet so I'm almost positive we're not on his bad side.

Hehe posted this in the wrong place, I would really be shocked (and worried) seeing a Buddhist forcing anyone to do anything.