Soul_Searcher50

Hi Jorge, "I agree totally with you in that sometimes we see and believe what we want and not what is objective." Sometimes? "Everyone could be right about everything everytime unless there was a standard applicable to everyone on everything all the time. That is what The Bible is to me." True, but that doesn't mean the Bible is objective. Taken at face value, it is a traditional history of the Jewish people, written FOR the Jewish people BY the Jewish people. There is really nothing objective about it. "God inspired the Bible, amognst other things, to give us an objective way of knowing Him the way He Is and not as we want Him to be." As I said... When you look at the God the Jews constructed you can see just how 'human' He is. They have taken what cannot be understood and created a God that is barely above us in knowledge or love, just power. "You depict a God that is impersonal, neutral, powerless, lethargically detached from the world and lovingly unidimensional." Hardly impersonal as God is within each of us, but yes, neutral, as in God loves each person, each being, equally. Powerless? In what way? Detached from the world? Not at all. God IS the world. Nor uni-dimensional, but infinitely dimensional. "We are partakers of his very essence; he is in us, we are in him: we are divine." This is true. Did not Jesus say this? "Is it not written, ye are gods?" "We don't need moral standards, authority, justice, grace, salvation." Did I say we don't need moral standards? No. What authority do we need? Do we require the threat of Hell to do what is right? What of justice? Isn't that just saying, "Fear God, fear Hell"? And please define Grace in this context. As for salvation, what we need is salvation from ourselves, our own fears. This too is what Jesus taught. "Sin is an illusion." True, for if our existence is but and illusion, a dream, then the 'sin' does not truly exist. "It is all about our level of spiritual enlightenment, which can be achieved by self-awareness. We are divine sparks that fell on earth for no apparent reason and must make our way back up to rejoin the Supreme Being." We didn't 'fall' anywhere. We are aspects of God in a game of illusion, believing we are separate from God, and each other. We are exploring existence separate from God, yet in reality we never left home, much like Dorothy in Oz. So while we do some horrible things, we also learn that Love is the only answer, the only thing that truly brings us joy, and the only thing that truly connects us with God. "In Scriptures God reveals Himself as a distinct Person (triune, for that matter) Who created the universe out of nothing (not of His Own Nature) and actively sustains it." Yes, the Jews saw God as a person, and so defined God as a person, with human traits, fears, foibles and emotions. Do you really believe the Creator of the Universe would act as YHWH did, with such anger and regret and wrath towards His own children? Honestly? "He commands history, has standards, teaches what is right and what is wrong, judges our actions, and declares in advance what He is going to do." This declaring in advance, does this include creating Christ before creating the universe, knowing full well His creation of man will cause Him untold pain, will cause God to regret even creating Man, and knowing full well He will be sending the Christ as a 'sacrifice' to placate Himself for the mistake of creating a sinful Man? "He created us in His image and allows us to exercise choice." Yes, life is choice, life is creation. "He knows we are fallible and dependant on Him for grace, forgiveness and remission of sins." We are fearful, yes, acting as if we are separate entities. "That is why He offered Jesus as the perfect atonement for our trespasses." But we were created this way; this is how God wanted us, or we wouldn't have been created this way. Jesus didn't come to atone, but to enlighten! Jesus came to show us our fears are baseless, and only love can wake us up to the divine within. "We just need to acknowledge Him and abide in Him to avoid the condemnation that sin and lawlessness deserve." In other words, to avoid Hell, correct? Why in the name of all that is Holy would an all-loving God have a Hell? "He is not only perfect Love, but also perfect Justice, Righteousness, Peace, Knowledge, Power, Sovereignty, etc." You forgot anger, jealousy, wrath, condemnation--all aspects of fear, yet we read Perfect Love casts out fear, so how can God be both? "Love that does not teach, correct, inspire, transform, elevate and liberate is not Love but darkening and vicious permissiveness not in line with God's Nature." Love that does not teach, correct, etc., is not love, correct, but love does not condemn either. Love does not send it's children to Hell, however you define it. "He perfectly exercises all His Attributes harmoniously and eternally. We cannot be like Him, for we are His 'Handiwork'." Did Jesus not say with faith we can heal, we can move mountains? Did Jesus not instruct us to love each other as He loves us? Are these not the actions of God? If we cannot be like God, then Jesus coming to us and teaching us was a waste of time, and I certainly don't believe that. Love and Peace, SS

Hi Dave, If I may... "Mankind is not a god, not even close." True, we are OF God, but not separate Gods; One with God, never parted except in our own minds. "We are a marred image of our Creator. Soiled by sin." If this is so, why did God create us this way? If sin is so bad, why did God allow it to happen? "You see Him in the way of your own acension. When He is the only way really to your acension." People see what they want to see. People believe what they want to believe. You see a God of anger, vengence, judgment and condemnation, yet somehow you call it love. I see a God of Love, and nothing more--no anger, jealousy or judgment. Why? Because Love is none of those things, Love DOES none of those things. "He is not some meglomaniac in the sky demanding your allegiance." If Hell, eternal burning and suffering, is the end result of not stating our allegiance to God... "He is quite the opposite. He is a Loving Father reaching down, shedding His Robes of Glory to reach you. Manifesting Himself as a man, taking on your meglomania so as to Bridge the gap and Love you just the way you are. Meeting you right where you are at." And what this shows me is God IS Love, sending us messengers and messages to awaken us to His love and constant presence in our lives. "Ps 94:11 The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity." But where does vanity come from? Fear. What casts out fear? Love and Peace, SS

Hi Michael, "Before we go any further with this 'discussion', I would like to know a few things about Lepaca and Daniel Dennett and also Troyboy . What do you believe happens to you when you die?" I hope you don't mind if I interject myself here, as one who believes in God, but not in Hell. When we die to these bodies we move on to the next level. It is a level of greater beauty, greater knowledge, but not yet the "God" level. OR, we do return to the origin, to God, until such 'time' as we choose to return to corporeal existence to experience the illusion of being separate from God. "What do you look forward to as you get older and closer to death?" I'm already older! I look forward to each day, each moment. I look forward to learning more about myself, about others, about God and what we're here for. "Do you believe you will see your parents ever again after they die?" Without a doubt. Not in a physical sense, but in essence. "I would like to "sit down" and talk about what you truly believe the 'meaning of life' is for you." What, to you, is the meaning of life? "Why do we humans (intelligent beings, separate from the rest of the animals) even exist?" To experience being. What do you believe? "What happend to the rest of the animals? Did they just happen to not get "selected" by nature for this?" The rest of what animals? Speaking of animals, how did Noah get animals from all over the world, thousands of species, onto that little boat? Love and Peace, SS

Hi CellShade, "I would buy they will ask the same question over and over since they don't understand sin, so they don't know what consequences it brings." It matters not what they ask in response, this is the answer. It's plain to see, simple to explain. I wouldn't even bring up sin, just ask, "What have you done to stem poverty and hunger and disease today?" (It's something we should ALL ask ourselves.) Love and Peace, SS

Hi CellShade, "To atheist here's an input I would like to give you, because I am honestly tired of getting your question, ''If there is A God, then why do all those poor people dying of hunger each day, or all those disasters happening in the world."" It's even simpler than your parable. All these people die because We, the human race, allow it to happen. As Jesus said in Matthew 25, we should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless--but we don't. God gives us the means--good land, clean water, and we have the transportation capabilities to move tons of food around the world quickly. Instead, we in the USA throw away enough food weekly to feed starving cities if not nations. We send food and supplies to the poorer nations, knowing that their corrupt governments will stall them, or sell them, or hold them for themselves. We have diseases that are curable, or would be if we had the resources, but instead we pour our money into wars and weapons, holding onto the illusion of power. No, Cellshade, it's not God's fault that we're in the shape we're in, it's our own. Tell them that.

Hi Thomas, "What is true Joy and happiness?" Total acceptance of who we are. "What is total peace and contentment and where does it come from?" Again, acceptance, and also living without fear. It comes from within. "Let's explore that together in this thread." I'm with ya.

Hi Dave, Peace be with you. "I would venture a better way to Live would be to have Faith in God's Word. To measure everything by it. Emotions are tricky things at best. Yes Love and Joy are good angles." I'd say it's better to have faith in God than what you believe to be God's Word. God speaks to all, not some. God uses many devices to speak to the world and us, not one. The Bible is no more God's Word than is the Bhagavad Gita or the Qu'ran--but it is no LESS so either. I cannot believe the Creator of the Universe would use one book to explain itself to Man--especially when I believe God speaks to us all all the time (the listening part is up to us). To say Live by what is Right, you must first have a definition of what is indeed Right. This is true, but what it Right to you and what is Right to me may be different, even if we both believe in God and Jesus. To use an exaggerated example: Man X and Man Y are Christians. Both believe abortion is wrong. Man X believes so strongly he supports the murdering of abortion doctors. Man Y is horrified at the thought of killing anyone, even a person who kills fetuses. Who is right? "Faith in Science is no good. It is an ever changing yardstick with which to measure." It is everchanging because it is always seeking proof, and as our measuring sticks improve, theories change and evolve. Still, it's basis is evidence and provable facts--provable in the sense that experiments must be able to be recreated. This cannot be done with religions and faith. What I've experienced in my life that led me to God and what you've experienced to lead you to your faith may well be polar opposites, yet we both have a deep and profound love and faith in God; we just view God differently. What science shows is that the universe as we know it is 14 +/- billion years old. Bible literalists would have us believe the universe is 6,000 years old. Who is right? Which side has the evidence to back up its claim? Science. Does that make the Bible irrelevant? No. What it does is show that the stories are mostly allegorical, not literal fact, and there is nothing wrong with that. It does not negate the central idea of the Bible that if we have faith in God we will be provided for and protected. "Ah' But God's Word doesn't change because God does not change." God's Word (the Bible) doesn't change because it was canonized 1600 years ago. God does not change; what changes is our definition of God from person to person, religion to religion, and even denomination to denomination. I don't believe any one of us has it right, no matter what we believe or what we use for reference. We all seek God; we all seek Truth. You found it in the Bible and that's wonderful. I find much in the Bible to love and strengthen my faith, I also find much in the Gitas and the Upanishads and the writings of Buddha and Lao Tzu and others, for when I read (some of) their words, I can hear God. The next time you hear a poem that touches you, or a song that speaks to your heart, or a child speaking a universal truth, know that that is God speaking to you. Take heart in the message you've received this day and rejoice, for God is showing that He is always with you. "Heb 13:8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever." Now this is different. Jesus is not the Bible, and the Bible is not Jesus. Yes, Jesus is the same, for Jesus is God. Love and Peace, SS

Hi Troyboy, "I'm a christian, but right now, I'm questioning it." What exactly are you questioning? The Jesus story? God itself? The biblical God? The Resurrection? All of it? "I was even thinking about being a pastor for a bit, but now, I'm finding tons of things that support an antichristian view almsot without flaw." Anti-Christian how? What? Again, please be specific. "What do i do?" A couple of things. Read the Gospels (only) and think about the things that Jesus said. Do they make sense? Do you see yourself living as he taught? Think about the universe. What is it comprised of? How did it get here? Could it have been 'created' or was it just an accident? "I mean, I'm a very scientific person, and very intellectual if you will, so I'm looking for some 'proof' of God's existence." There isn't any. If you want a couple of suggestions on reading or watching, I can provide that. They may not give you answers, but they'll make you think! Remember, even science has its limits. "HELP ME! I know they say live by faith and not by sight, but please help, cuz im finding it hard to." You have to have faith of some sort, even if it's in science. Live by what is right; what is in your heart? What gives you joy? What does love produce. Start there.

Hi Spherical Time, "I hope you'll forgive the simples questions, but dialogue can be a problem if the terms are vague. What is a Christian? Are people that disagree with your theology still Christians as long as they follow the path that they think that Christ has set for them? What are your requirements?" A Christian is someone who follows and lives the teachings of Jesus, loves God, loves his/her neighbor, lives spiritually, does not care about material possessions, forgives, does not judge, loves his/her enemies, etc. "What is an atheist?" A person who finds no evidence for and so rejects the idea of deities and the supernatural "and also: What is an agnostic?" Someone who questions whether or not a god or gods exist, but does not deny nor confirm said deities. Finally, are the majority of Christians here members of a specific denomination? Evangelical Protestants, most likely? I don't know. I do not belong to any denomination or church, of any religion.

FINALLY, someone makes sense!! Thanks Raina! I read the book AND saw the movie. Both are basically thrillers, and the underlying theme, the possibility of Jesus having been married and produced offspring, is just that, a possibility, a theory. Why is this idea so horrible to contemplate?

Okay AK ~ but for the record when God

Hi Mike, How does one show one's faith but through action?

Hi apothanein kerdos, "If there is no hell and literally no consequence in the afterlife, what does it matter how I live?" Why do you need Hell and consequences to live a life of love and forgivness? What kind of life brings you joy? One of love, or one of fear and paranoia? "If there is no consequence, then why did Jesus come to earth to die?" To show us that our fears are unfounded. To show us that death has no meaning. To show us we are one with God and with each other. By the way, He didn't "die," He allowed his body to die, but He knew he was of God and therefore immortal. "If you do not believe He died, then why did He come to teach us?" As I said above... "Why did God create us, especially if He knew we would kill each other?" You tell me. Why did God kill everyone in the world (including innnocent people), except Noah and his family, knowing man would be just as depraved afterwards? Why did God create the world knowing He'd have to send Christ to save us? (John 1:1-10) Why did God allow the serpent into the Garden to tempt Eve and Adam? Why did God put the forbidden tree in their reach? Tell me, is God omniscient? To answer your question, God created us so that we could experience being apart from God--even though that separation itself is an illusion. And in our experiencing being, God TOO experiences life as we do, being that we are actually one with God. "Your theory, though it might feel good and provide a warm feeling concerning the afterlife, leaves so many logical questions that someone who is intellectually honest with himself cannot possibly believe what you are teaching." I could say the same about your beliefs, as my questions above point out.

Hi Chou, "i got a question... what are atheists doing on a christian bulletinboard? " Giving you another perspective on God and the universe? Testing your faith? Making you think and ask questions about your faith? Mixing things up so you don't stand still in your belief, but work on it constantly? These are good things. We should always question what we think and feel. You may just find your faith gains strength as you debate others about what you believe--even other Christians or theists.

Hi CellShade, "Like it or not, one day you will bow down and confess Jesus is God, so you better do it now so you don't have to do it when it will be no good to you. (Judgement Day)" While I believe in God, and Jesus, I don't believe in judgment day (let alone Hell), nor do I believe Jesus wants nor desires worship, but wants us to see God within each of us (as in Love your neighbor as yourself). "God loves you, like it or not, He has patience but you have to act quick,you never know when it's gonna be too late ." Too late? Why would a loving God not bring all His children home when our time here is done?

Hi Observer, "What is life? Can you name it? Feel it? Smell it? Taste it? Do you even want to?" I can experience it! "What happens when the mold of our ancestors is broken and we must decide, not on which paths to take, but where to start a path of our own?" Don't we do that when we graduate from high school or college, start our own paths? "The road to salvation is paved with broken glass and false hope. Salvation itself however is the driving factor of our very soul." It is? How? "Our work will always go unanswered and flawed. It

Hi Thomas, It is a great testament to faith. You know the singer Cat Stevens? He was swimming in the ocean and got caught in a current or something, and prayed to God that if his life was spared he would devote the rest of his life to God. Cat survived, changed his name to Josef Islam and is a devout Muslim, doing wonderful things for children.