Azathoth

Because if the Greeks were unbelievers under the sway of Satan, and Satan granted them knowledge and understanding while most of the rest of the world wallowed in ignorance, the possesion of which allowed them to live healthier, more intelligent lives, leads me to think Satan is the one granting true wisdom. Comparing the Greeks to the people living under the biblicle god at the time wouldn't you agree? After all the greeks built 5 of the 7 wonders of the world. What were the hebrews doing? on a lighter note, I want to ask Brandi what version she is using (of the bible).

I'm not going to call anything you say a lie. What matters isn't weather or not it's true (since these are philosophicle and theological points) but weather or not you believe it. If you do, thats all that matters. That being said, you just completely and utterly belittled over 6 thousand years of human achievment in the fields of science, medicene, literature, architecture, art, and a dozen other mediums. You say no one gets his knowledge on his own. I guarentee you that millions of scientists around the world would be offended by that. A child that masters the multiplication tables does so by his/her own hard work, determination, and intellect. The ideas aren't planted in their mind by a divine being. In fact, I am disturbed by your claim all knowledge comes from god. All evidence? Sure. But to attribute all human success in the endeavor for greater understanding to GOD is just strange. And to suggest pagans (like the Greeks) were given their incredible ideas through satan is also strange. You are telling me the culture that invented democracy, modern mapping, the thermometer, the astrolabe, and hundreds of other things got all that from Satan? If this is the case I'd much rather worship Satan. He doesn't seem like such a bad guy if he enabled a civilization to gain a level of technological mastery unparreled until as late as the 17 or 18th century.

Nobody has answered my question. Prove to me that their is a malevolent being bent on ruining my life. As far as I can see, the Christian Church has comitted worse crimes than satan every has.

So often is it heard that Satan is evil. That he wishes only for the downfall of mankind, and that he acts accordingly. And yet, history seems rather empty when it comes to examples of satans malevolence. In fact, I can't seem to find a single act of mass murder, torture, war, genocide, or just general unpleasentness conducted in the name of Lucifer. On the other hand, you have the Crusades, The Inquisition, The Salem Witch Trials, wars between catholics and protestants, intellectuals condemmed by the church, book burnings, censorship, brainwashing, assasination, injustice, all conducted in the name of the Christian god. Why. Please, convince me that Satan is a threat in my daily life.

bump, I'd like a reply from brandi

In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it often does in other contexts. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from and/or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations that is predictive, logical and testable. In principle, scientific theories are always tentative, and subject to corrections or inclusion in a yet wider theory. Commonly, a large number of more specific hypotheses may be logically bound together by just one or two theories. As a general rule for use of the term, theories tend to deal with much broader sets of universals than do hypotheses, which ordinarily deal with much more specific sets of phenomena or specific applications of a theory. Taken from wiki. A theory has not been fully proven

But this does not mean that I cannot rationally hold the position that the rock will not fall. Like I stated earlier, if the rock were to miraculously fly up the next time I dropped it, I would modify/change my belief that the rock will always fall. So, while I cannot state that it is a FACT that the rock will fall, I can rationally hold the belief that it will, based on repeated empirical tests and observations. If I could not do this, then every claim would be of equal weight. "Elephants can sprout wings and fly" would be equal to "Elephants cannot sprout wins and fly", because there is a possibility that somehow, miraculously, elephants will start to sprout wings and fly. However, until the elephant actually DOES sprout wings and fly, it is completely reasonable to believe that elephants do not have that ability. (Edit: Spelling) That, in essence, is the idea behind the Dictum.

While you are right, believing in the fall of the rock doesn't even compare to religion. You are right, but I'm not going to sit around and try to explain a complex philosophical/scientific concept. Go look up Hume's Dictum and you will see.

Nitpick: It is a scientific theory, which, as you know, is very different from the common usage of the word "theory". Still, it is not a scientific law, meaning it has not been proven. It merely has sufficent logical infrastructure that we can assume it is true.

The reason this story is humorous is because you actually believe it happened. ::bows at the feet of Redeemed:: Oh yes, master...you know all. You are of superior intelligence and understand the cosmos. You have the ability to tell me what I do and do not know...what I can and cannot fathom. All hail Redeemed! [/sarcasm] If I drop a rock 1,000,000 times consecutively (on Earth), I guarantee that it will fall each and every time. Based on what I can empirically test and observe, I have reason to believe that the rock will always fall when dropped (on Earth). If I am proven wrong someday, then so be it...I will modify my belief. But until that point, it would be silly of me to assume that the rock is NOT going to fall when I drop it. As for the existence of an omnipotent, supernatural being, I cannot conduct these empirical tests. Actually, if a being is truly supernatural, there is no need to even ponder the concept. If he/she/it is outside of nature, I cannot comprehend its existence, and have no way of knowing if the entity exists. No one does. Not even those who read an ancient "holy" book that allegedly contains the word of this supernatural being. As a result, the concept is of no meaning to me. There is no reason for me to base my entire life/existence around this entity, if it is completely beyond comprehension. Do you have an account at IIDB as "phoenixthoth"? Nope to the IIDB question. Hume's Dictum (part of the basis of all scientific research and law) states that you CAN'T prove the rock will always fall. You can prove that the rock has always fallen, and that it might fall the next time you drop it, but not that it won't miraculously fly up next time you release it. You cannot prove a matter of fact (observation of the world) with a relation of ideas (2+2=4, that sort of stuff)

And that article brings up very few valid points. Nobody has ever been killed in the name, nor for the sake, of Athiesm. Mao did not go around saying, "You must die for the sake of athiesm". Misguided economic and social plans brought about the death of 20 million people, not a man standing up and aserting that they must die in the name of Athiesm. It's comparable to saying that the millions of peasents that died due to famine in the middle ages died in the name of christianity, simply because their rulers were christian? I myself am an athiest. I would never consider murdering my fellow man unless I had too (in self-defense). And why? Because LAW created by man as a MORAL code tells me it is wrong. Man made law is just as meaningful and divinely inspired law.

You bet it is. Its a total lie. THere is no proof at all for one. Another is that God created the world. Satan and his followers will try and trick people into thinking there is no God. Sadly enough it is working in some peoples lives. When a person accepts Jesus Christ they see what Non believers can't see. A person who has accepted Jesus Christ as thier personal savoir do they know what a Non Believer sees?? Yes, because we were all once a person who did not know Christ. The agurements on this thread about Buddia, and all that other Human kind smoke screen junk to get God out of the picture is just plain unnessary. God created, he is working still on this earth. He opens peoples hearts when they let him. Yes Evolution is a lie. Totally. It's incorrect to label Evolution as a lie. It's merely a theory. Were a better, more plausible explanation to come along scientists would begin to research it. To be a lie, evolution would have to be accepted as rock solid fact, which it is not. It is merely a theory.

If you are looking for a scientific explanation, the existance or nonexistance of any ominpotent being cannot be proven by science. It's simply a matter of faith. Science cannot prove that a rock will always fall down when dropped. You gotta take it on faith. p.s. I'm an athiest.

Thats not truth! God gives man his wisdom! We do not have any. We have free will. We can take the information given as truths, or false. Its our choice. I'm sorry, I find that highly insulting. If it was true that all wisdom came from God, how do you explain people that create in the name of athiesm, or other religions? Or even better, how could pagan cultures (such as the greeks and romans) invent the incredible things they did? And the point of the original post was that man, through competition, often tries harder than he would if he was in a passive activity. Athletes train harder, business better their products, etc. etc. Not trying to flame you, but you're statement has no basis in fact whatsoever.

I believe the most common argument against your points is to simply keep faith.