anti-hillbilly

Hold on there just a minute, I do not condone homosexuality; I don't commit homosexual acts; I think those are gross too. BUT, I don't obsess on homosexuality any more than I obsess on the old guys, young chicks thing either. Both bring rather unpleasant images to mind. I only mentioned that because of the bigoted anti-black statements while producing a child in secret of mixed race; the hypocrisy was my point but you obviously didn't get it. However, I think I was thinking of Strom Thurmond and got him confused with Jesse Helms; did I? I point it out because the republicans are suppose to be the party of family values and christian morals; they point the finger at homosexuals and abortion (which the bible doesn't even forbid) but do any darned thing they please in their own lives. Helms did make the following bigoted quote: I've been portrayed as a caveman by some. That's not true. I'm a conservative progressive, and that means I think all men are equal, be they slants, beaners or niggers. -- Jesse Helms, North Carolina Progressive, February 6, 1985, quoted from the Democratic Alliance, Didn't Randall Terry abandon his wife of 20 years for that second wife? He's another one that like to tell others to "do as I say not as I do". Randall Terry is not someone I'd want as my representative but we've been getting solicitations to contribute to his political campaign for congress (I think) down in Florida. Randall Terry quotes: "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." --Randall Terry, The News Sentinel, (Ft. Wayne, IN.), 8/16/93 "America is under the judgment of God. And if we are ever going to rebuild this country, it must be under God's law. Our goal must be simple: We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the Ten Commandments. No apologies." --Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, address to "Cities of Refuge" campaign, Willoughby Hills, OH, July, 1993 "What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church." --Randall Terry, Operation Rescue, speech in Jackson, Miss., 4/92, "When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed." --Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, speaking of doctors who perform abortions, in an address to the U.S. Taxpayers Alliance, 8/08/95 Sorry Randall, you won't be getting any cash from me. Find somebody else to beg it off of. Oh you said Tony Randall and Art Bell. Are they always acting "more moral" in public while doing different in private too?

I liked Kerry a lot. He surprised me because via the husband's choice in radio stations I'd heard absolutely nothing good about him on the Christian airwaves. We're veterans and we both thought it would be better to have someone in charge of a war that had actually fought in one. In 2000 my sister and I talked our father into voting for Bush and it wasn't easy even though he was a republican. He kept saying Bush was a coward and we poo-pooed it and talked him into it. It became apparent soon after that he regretted it because he kept saying he thought they were cheating Gore out of the Presidency down there in Florida with Jeb being govenor. I wish I'd voted for Gore; he'd have been better choice than Bush and you never know, we might not have been attacked at all. Have you ever wondered if there was some personal revenge in the 9/11 attack? Because of Osama bin Laden's brother's financial dealings with the Bush family? My husband's uncle had some big position with the republican party in his state and he couldn't stand the elder Bush and said that was Reagan's biggest mistake because the Bush family was like some sort of political mafia family or something; and some more stuff about his running the CIA. He always thought Bush Sr. was orchestrating a lot of things behind President Reagan's back but I don't know the particulars of that. I wasn't that interested in politics way back then (that was in 91 when he was saying all that). I did read somewhere that more people had been convicted of crimes in the Reagan administration than in any administration in American history. That doesn't speak too well of Reagan but I now see that a lot of the admiration we all had could have been photo-ops and charisma. Everybody loves a charasmatic person. I couldn't stand Clinton but at least he did apologize for his adultery and I think he and his wife were cleared of any wrongdoing in all those things they were accused of doing. Maybe a lot of that was just lies to keep them from getting universal health care or doing other things the right opposed. I think the people at Guantanamo Bay are being mistreated' the ones at Abu Graib were and they had the pictures to prove it. I don't think everyone at GB has been a terrorist. I think they made a big mistake by not letting humanitarian groups come in there in the first place. At the very least it would have prevented false accusations of abuse against our soldiers. When WWII was going on the German POWs that were imprisoned here were treated so good that many of them have returned with their families over the years on vacations. I've seen many stories about this in Reminisce Magazine and just local papers from time to time. That's how you win hearts and minds and it depresses me that this generation has fallen so far below that of the WWII generation. Have we really become so barbaric that we condone torture....while claiming to be Christian??? It's wrong and all the 'political speak' in the world is not gonna make it right. MIGHT does not make right; we're suppose to be the good guys. Just so you know Butero, not all Christians are evangelicals and as that preacher in your part of the country learned not all Baptists are republicans. Last I read he's an ex-preacher working at a fast food joint. (I'm referring to that minister that kicked the democrats out of his church during the last presidential election). The democratic party is not the worse one; the republican party is. You'd better wake up quickly and realize that the democrats depite their faults are the best bet we common people have of maintaining any freedom or political voice in this country. The republicans have broken their contract with America and it's time to vote the bums out. It is okay for Christians to vote democrat. I did it last time and I'm voting a straight democratic ticket this time as is my husband and I can name two other republican family members who are doing the same. It sounds to me like you are much more impressed with republican jingles than the democratic ones that you keep mentioning; the republicans do have the better marketing I have to agree. I don't remember those two religious instances you mention with the Clintons but why would I, obviously they didn't make a habit of throwing God's name out there like a baited hook. But Clinton isn't President anymore and hasn't been in years; Bush is and he does it all the time; it's almost like code with the bible verses and such; quite unscrupuluous. Some people will stoop to any level I guess.

A few more things that caused me to "switch sides" embryonic stem-cell research -- I'm all for it; I think it's inhumane not to do it since those embryos will be thrown away anyway, they're not viable they stall out after two weeks in a petrie dish -- no pregnancy involved at all. I don't think the "soul" begins at conception (another man-man marketing phrase) everytime someone had a miscarriage it would be another soul killed and I just don't believe that God is killing a soul when somebody miscarries. I don't think it's right for people to push their religion on other people using the "law" to do it. It's suppose to be a free-gift but the religious right is shooting for a theocracy. I don't care about gay-marriage. I'm not gonna do it; it's not gonna hurt me or my family. Abortion - not at the top of my list of "things to gripe about" for reasons already listed. I'm against tax-payer funded faith based iniatives -- as already stated. I'm against wars of aggression. I'm against world domination. I'm against "squashing" all opposing viewpoints by manipulating the law or by demonizing or villifying those voices. These are all things that the republican religious right represent for me today; the republican party isn't "what I thought it was". Now that I know that I don't want to be a part of it anymore. I think every person in this country, whether they're a believer or not, has the right to choose their own path. I realize and accept the fact that some people do not believe in God and I think those people should not be mistreated because of that. They have morals and ethics too despite the way they've been portrayed. I too think your side will win the "under God" debate but I don't think it's right. To me that means the majority can bully over the minority and it will embolden the far-right to do just that and we'll see court case after court case pushing the envelope on these matters. As for Jesse Helms, why does it not surprise me that you'd like him Butero. I think that man was awful, in word and deed. Disgusting all around. A bigot but with a secret half black illigitimate daughter; then marries some sweet young thing when he's old enough to be her grandfather; gross!

Hi I'm back. My transformation wasn't over just one thing but a lot of things. I think this administration is the most corrupt one in history, Cheney and Rumsefeld are worse than Bush and when you start really tracking down their connections it's so disturbing I just can't stay in that party; they're just too immoral for me. I've always been a liberal Christian but where politics were concerned I was conservative, small government, right to own guns, against govt waste, I'm an isolationist too...don't like the UN and am sick to death of getting involved in foreign problems and even sicker of the fact that our govt has stirred up or instigated many of those foreign problems to begin with. The more I became aware of that last part the more I began to loathe my precious republican party. Basically I think they've tricked us all with their "conservative talk" and as I've grown older I've started to compare "idealogy" with "reality". I'm very, very disillusioned with Ronald Reagan too; I wish I'd paid more attention when he was President, I thought he was wonderful but now the bloom is off that rose for me too. Anyway I don't think the republican party is conservative; they're on a mission of world domination I think. I don't think they care about the rule of law and I think their motto is "might makes right". It is apparent to me that Christianity is simply a tool for them to use to achieve it. If this were a Muslim country or some other religion was in the majority that would be the religion they'd "court". Whatever it takes. They'll ruin or bankrupt the country in this endeavor and if you get your wish with that theocracy thing this could turn out to be a repeat of the dark ages. The Christian angle; like I said I've always been a liberal Christian but my husband was an evangelical and I had to suffer thru listening to James Dobson and watching the 700 Club. I can honestly say that when I hear James Dobson's grandfatherly voice I think of the wolf dressed up in grandma's clothes trying to get little red riding hood to come closer so he can devour her. I told my husband back in the 1980s to just look at Pat Robertson's eyes, I think the man is nuts and a crook. Jerry Fallwell, why on earth anyone would take him seriously is beyond me. They tell so many lies and mistruths, some obvious and some subtle. That one guy they used to have on all the time named David Barton, the one that writes about the U.S.'s "christian history", has been caught on SO many lies and yet the Christian leadership continues to quote him even though he's been "called out" on his lies. Now you have these two entities combined so God help us all. They'll steal all the money they can, and discard their supporters when they no longer need them. And don't count on the church to help you when you're starving or need medical attention; they'll pray for ya but that'll be about it when you find yourself down and out. This is just scratching the surface, but more reality and I've covered some of that already. We're being taxed against our will, it won't change, so spend it on programs to take care of Americans, not military contractors or corporate welfare, they've got enough already. I have to say here that old people have had a big influence on reshaping my world view. Many used to come into the place where I worked and during the 2000 election many, to my surprise, vocally said they'd never vote for anyone but a democrat...they were all Christians too. That reminded me of my grandparents and my great-grandparents saying that if it weren't for Roosevelt they would have starved to death in the 1930s. That got me to thinking, you can't always just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and money isn't necessarily a "blessing" or "punishment" from God. I also started noticing from the am radio that all the talk was geared toward defending the rich and pitting the middle class against the poor. But when you start to read it becomes apparent that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and the middle class is disappearing. But look at how it's the poor and the powerless that gets blamed. Some people are on welfare but those welfare checks aren't that big, neither are social security checks.... so where is the money going......it's going in the pockets of the rich; it's going to foreign aid; it's going to faith based iniatives. Sorry but I think that's just wrong. I don't even think they're spending much on science these days. If you mention science the "pundits" start putting the word "out there on the airwaves" that science should be privately funded. The only way they can get people to go along with this massive theft is to convince them that they're the "good people", the people who are on "God's side". Neither political party is perfect and you're gonna have some crooks but at least the democrats don't make hypocrits out of themselves by talking about God all the time then being crooks and adulterers and theives; the republicans talk about morals, family values and God all the time and get caught stealing, lying, cheating, and killing just like everybody else only worse. Better to leave God's name out of it cause nobody likes a hypocrit. Is there anything specific you want to ask me?

I explained why I'm called anti-hillbilly on another thread. I'm a hillbilly that doesn't like GWB anymore and someone on another forum called me an anti-christ for that view. Then another poster said they'd never heard of a hillbilly that didn't like Dubya and did that make me an anti-hillbilly (making a joke because of the anti-christ remark). SOooo, it's a joke not a jab. Until the 2004 Presidential election I'd only voted for a democrat one time and that had been for a senate race in the early 1980s. I voted for Bush of Course and Dole and Bush Sr. twice, Reagan twice...and every other office always republican. I switched parties a few years ago when I woke up and realized what was happening. I thought Carter was a terrible president but in retrospect I think he was truly an honest Christian man. I have to stop here and get supper ready.

First you say this: Then you say this: And that my friend is why our Founders gave us a Constitution and a Bill of Rights so people like you can't take it upon themselves to force everyone under a theocracy of YOUR making; not God's making. So much for patriotism and acting Christ like. So much for that "free gift" of salvation. May I suggest that you leave our Consitution alone and spend more time on getting your theology straightened out. I don't think you know nearly as much as you seem to think you know. Maybe you should visit their websites. Now that one could really be used in a number of ways in this day and age but I don't have time to go into detail there right now so I'll put it in a nutshell for you; Iraq, Iraq and Iraq; excuses, excuses, excuses; God, God, God; evangelical base of support. Praise God and pass the ammo. You thought that stuff up all on your own? That's even worse than copying it from somebody else; I sure wouldn't be bragging about it if I were you. I do think you hit upon one thing though, talk radio just reinforces what you already believe.....and it's scary. Hatred draws some people like a moth to a flame; it's always been that way. I think you'd have fit into the Roman Catholic inquisitor's robes quite well Butero; if you had lived then and not now.

In my opinion that verse is the word of lustful, greedy men who needed to blame their misdeeds and perversion on God to try and justify it with the people. In other words, I think they did it but that they're lying when they say it was kosher with God that they did it. Since I probably just put myself out on a limb by saying that I might as well go out a little further lol. I think it's wrong for people to try and rationalize "away" these barbaric murders and rapes (yes we know those women were raped). We don't know if the Cannanites did all those things, the victors get to write the history. Also I find it ironic that people say it's okay that the Cannanites were massacered in such a way because "they were making their children pass thru the fire" , a horrendous thing if it is true yet at the same time we're taught that if we don't make the final cut on judgement day we'll have to "pass thru the fires of hell" eternally but that's okay. -- I see a double standard here. You ask some very head-scratching questions Sylvan3. In my opinion, your views are heretical and they explain how come you believe what you do when it comes to politics. They also show I was correct in my assessment of liberals. You do not view the Bible as the innerant Word of God. I do. I believe every word from Genesis to Revelation is the Word of God and that God did order the destruction of the Canaanites. You're very tyrannical. I think you enjoy these brutal verses that in my 'heretical' opinon insult the divine, loving nature of God. A lot of people these days seems to derive joy from a "serial rapist/killer" kind of tribal God; I'm not one of them.

Examples: You say you're opposed to activist judges (another marketing jingle btw) yet you support the republicans. They're picking activist judges and making no attempts to hide the fact. In reality you must favor activist judges as long as they judge the way YOU want them too; nevermind the constitution when you get right down to the nitty-gritty. You oppose the democrats because of their positions on abortion and gay rights yet you don't mention their positions on the poor and powerless. Nor do you seem to notice or consider that perhaps these two issues are simply republican tools only to be used during an election year. Which issue did Jesus focus on during his tenure here on earth? It certainly was not abortion (which he never mentioned) nor was it homosexuals (which he didn't bother to address, that was Paul). It'd already been covered as "sin' in the OT but Jesus didn't put it at the top of the list as far as what He preached did He? If neither of those was at the top of Jesus' list then why is it at the top of yours? Seems to me that James Dobson, Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson have more influence among evangelical Christians than Christ; pathethic! Overall you imply that you support the Consitition yet you turn around and say you support a theocracy; big contradiction. You can't have it both ways Butero. I've got news for you, the ACLU and People for the American Way are not out to destroy the country; more demonization from the right on that score. The ACLU represents churches and religious organizations too when their rights are being infringed upon. That doesn't happen nearly as often as you think; it happens much more frequently the other way and that's why those authoritarians in leadership positions in Christianity hate them so much. That ONE verse was specific to Jeremiah. The bible defines life as "breath" in several significant passages, including the story of Adam

In my opinion that verse is the word of lustful, greedy men who needed to blame their misdeeds and perversion on God to try and justify it with the people. In other words, I think they did it but that they're lying when they say it was kosher with God that they did it. Since I probably just put myself out on a limb by saying that I might as well go out a little further lol. I think it's wrong for people to try and rationalize "away" these barbaric murders and rapes (yes we know those women were raped). We don't know if the Cannanites did all those things, the victors get to write the history. Also I find it ironic that people say it's okay that the Cannanites were massacered in such a way because "they were making their children pass thru the fire" , a horrendous thing if it is true yet at the same time we're taught that if we don't make the final cut on judgement day we'll have to "pass thru the fires of hell" eternally but that's okay. -- I see a double standard here. You ask some very head-scratching questions Sylvan3.

Yes God has free will; he changes his mind and expresses regret in some verses in the bible. Man was made in God's image so I'd say that's the connection, both have free will, both can change their minds, both can express regret.

Butero you are wrong on almost everything you had to say there and even contradicted yourself several times. I'll only bother to address the very end because it's so glaringly obvious that you don't have a clue.: The religious right doesn't believe in the innerrency of scripture; LOL, that too is just talk. The religious right believes in the innerancy of a few nasty people in positions of leadership who are calling the "shots" and saying it's all biblical. This is evident when you examine the scriptures. For example, In some scriptures God says life begins when one breathes not at the moment of conception. In some verses God instructs "killing of the unborn" and the "born"; scriptures are full of such mandates by God to rip the unborn from their mother's wombs. Barbaric I know, yet, it's condoned in the bible and yes I do think that type of thing is "outdated" and shouldn't be done......as do you since you oppose abortion. The bible also condones putting homosexuals to death; do you think that one is outdated? I certainly do think it is even if homosexuality is a sin. As far as "gay marriage" being a threat to me... I don't feel threatened. I'm not a homosexual nor is my husband; I'd be more threatened by some floosy who had her eye on my man than some gay guy. Jesus didn't even bother to mention homosexuals but he sure has a lot to say about divorce yet the church pews from sea to shining sea are full of unbiblically divorced people who've remarried...and the "leadership" not only allows it but makes elaborate excuses for it to boot. So much for a "black and white" thing there......looks gray to me. So no, the religious right isn't right or more into biblical inerrancy than those of us on the religious left. Obviously the republicans have you bamboozled so there's nothing else I can say to explain "how" they've suckered the taxpayers and their religious base without writing a book and there's plenty of those already. As for the pledge, it is important for reasons I've already tried to explain. The left is right, the pledge should be secular; it's the right thing. The 10 commandments absolutely should NOT be in courtrooms either. We as Christians don't even recognize the one about the sabbath and only 2 of the others are against the law (murder and stealing) and under certain circumstances a third one (bearing false witness, perjury). Just more politics to keep our eyes off the real issues and off of whose stealing the treasury blind. To wish for a theocracy in this great country is pure foolishness; don't you know anything about church history?

I think a.m. radio is a lot to blame (including christian radio). I quit listening 5 or 6 years ago because it just became so LOUD and so negative and so divisive, not to mention one sided. People start to act like that in real life when they hear it hour after hour, day after day, year after year.

I agree with some of the explanations already given as to what Jesus meant. But, In real life, put into practice, I've never seen anyone turn on a family member for believing in Jesus Christ. Unfortunately what I've seen has worked the other way around. I have seen several instances of people turning on family members for not being zealous enough, attending the "wrong" church or for going against something in the bible. I've known of family members shunning a daughter or son who divorces and remarries. I know of one instance where a family member won the lottery with some co-workers and the person's parents threw a fit and told them they had to refuse the money or they might go to hell for gambling; the guy told the parents to go to hell and he took the money. The saddest instance I know of is a homosexual co-worker my husband had whose parents (the father primarily) told him he never wanted to lay eyes on him again and hasn't in almost 20 yrs. I think his brother and his mother met him at a hotel once or twice without the father knowing but that's not much in 20 years. I don't think those things are what Jesus had in mind but I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me. I've been thinking about this one: 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. I guess I'm not worthy of Jesus because if I think about that sentence seriously, really seriously, I love my kids more than I love myself, more than I love my parents or husband; I love my kids more than I love Jesus to be brutally honest about it. How do you love Jesus more than your babies? As much as I know I'm suppose to love Jesus more I just can't seem to do it and I don't want to just say I do.

Boy I'm glad I didn't live back then; I'd be one dead anti-hillbilly lol.

No, but I do remember hearing about the Tucker Torpedo in the 1950's. The Big Three back then ruined the inventor's life because his Torpedo as he called it was so superior to what they were producing. I am not a conspiracy nut, but the Tucker story is a historical fact. My mom was telling me something about that a while back. She'd watched a movie about it but I don't remember the name. Do you know what it is cause I'd like to get it from Netflix?

What kind of rope are you smoking? Do you think we all just drive around all day with nothing better to do? Has it ever ocurred to you (and people of the "drive less" mentallity) that America is one honkin' big country and that some of us have no choice to put a lot of miles on our cars just to buy groceries, let alone work? Or how about the necessity of flying once or twice a month in our jobs? This isn't Europe were we live in teeny tiny houses real close to one another and close to our factories or offices! We don't have trains running right and left all day every day around my neck of the woods, either. Good point Marnie; that's true.

That's the rub; they've been trying to control it for years so they've kept trouble stirred up in a lot of foreign countries; they're instigators. Stir up trouble, go in and fix trouble, let the American taxpayer foot the bill for it (and have their kids die for it), then reap the profits. Of course they've been met with resistence where they weren't expecting any and you'd have thought they would have learned by now that when you mess with people's domestic policy you're gonna make enemies. Just look at what our govt did to Iran. They were on the verge of becoming a democracy in the 1950s until our CIA helped the British overthrow their democratic government and install a brutal dictator to be their puppet; because of oil primarily though they came up with a few other "excuses". [Operation Ajax] Of course the Shah was overthrown by Islamic militants in 1979 and we now have an enemy in Iran. Saddam Hussein, another brutal dictator, was "one of our friends" that was sold chemical weapons (or what was needed to make them) by American companies; it seems like nobody wants to acknowlege that now a days. It all revolves around the oil. On environmental policy, check out Cheney's 'classified' Energy Task Force [link]. It seems like everybody at the top right now is up to his or her eyeballs in either the oil business or the war contracting business. Even Condoleeza Rice is a former director at Cheveron; they were gonna name a oil tanker after her. But we're suppose to believe these people are interested in protecting the enviroment. I don't trust them to protect us from a terrorist attack (9/11 was on their watch) or the environment. I don't think we can do a thing about any of this. We're the little nobodys out here and we'll have to pay whatever they charge us. They even control whether or not any alternatives make it to the market for us to puchase. I'd like to see that movie about the Death of the Electric Car. Of course it'd probably just frustrate me too. It doesn't feel good to feel powerless. Brother, you've been watching too many conspiracy movies. Did you also hear the one about the car that ran on water that was invented but the inventor was killed by the big oil companies? You can verify everything in my post if you would take the time. I don't go to conspiracy sites and I don't have to, the encyclopedia, news clippings and documentaries are available and easy to access and track down thanks to the internet. There are enough real life dishonest business practices and dirty politics going on that I don't know who has time to waste on "conspiracy theories". Even if I am willing to grant everything you say is factual, it does not support your premise. For example, Condi Rice has been on numerous boards of large companies. ALL large corporations have famous individuals on their boards. Its an important position, but board members normally aren't involved with the daily operations of companies. It really is insignificant. sw Insignificant, are you kidding! OF COURSE IT'S SIGNIFICANT!!! It makes a major impact on our foreign and domestic policies when those at the top of our govt have held positions within OIL companies and war profiteering companies. Who do you think paid for putting them into office in the first place? Talk about buying influence. Not kidding. Being on a board like that is almost an honorary position. Do you think the other board members would allow one individual to act imprudently for their own self interest completely unrestrained? As I said, famous people literally rotate on and off boards of large corporations. It not that big a deal. Many serve on several boards at once. You are making something out of nothing. sw ps, I am being paid by Haliburton to post this stuff! No I'm not; you are attempting to make nothing out of something and it's no laughing matter. We're not talking about one individual either we're about several people who were not holding just 'honorary positions'. You should start verifying these statements you're making; you'll surprise youself. (Did you even read those links I gave you? They didn't come from the DNC either.) You don't have a problem with oil executives meeting to determine our environmental policies and keeping the particulars of that meeting secret from the public? Refer back to this [link] Here's another [link] Of course they're all insisting that they did no such thing. I don't believe them. If the oil companies are in charge of environmental policies then they are clearly acting against their own self interest because the government still does not allow much domestic drilling for new oil. So much for that. sw Well they're getting a lot of opposition; that's why they were having to testify before congress and deny, deny, deny.

That's the rub; they've been trying to control it for years so they've kept trouble stirred up in a lot of foreign countries; they're instigators. Stir up trouble, go in and fix trouble, let the American taxpayer foot the bill for it (and have their kids die for it), then reap the profits. Of course they've been met with resistence where they weren't expecting any and you'd have thought they would have learned by now that when you mess with people's domestic policy you're gonna make enemies. Just look at what our govt did to Iran. They were on the verge of becoming a democracy in the 1950s until our CIA helped the British overthrow their democratic government and install a brutal dictator to be their puppet; because of oil primarily though they came up with a few other "excuses". [Operation Ajax] Of course the Shah was overthrown by Islamic militants in 1979 and we now have an enemy in Iran. Saddam Hussein, another brutal dictator, was "one of our friends" that was sold chemical weapons (or what was needed to make them) by American companies; it seems like nobody wants to acknowlege that now a days. It all revolves around the oil. On environmental policy, check out Cheney's 'classified' Energy Task Force [link]. It seems like everybody at the top right now is up to his or her eyeballs in either the oil business or the war contracting business. Even Condoleeza Rice is a former director at Cheveron; they were gonna name a oil tanker after her. But we're suppose to believe these people are interested in protecting the enviroment. I don't trust them to protect us from a terrorist attack (9/11 was on their watch) or the environment. I don't think we can do a thing about any of this. We're the little nobodys out here and we'll have to pay whatever they charge us. They even control whether or not any alternatives make it to the market for us to puchase. I'd like to see that movie about the Death of the Electric Car. Of course it'd probably just frustrate me too. It doesn't feel good to feel powerless. Brother, you've been watching too many conspiracy movies. Did you also hear the one about the car that ran on water that was invented but the inventor was killed by the big oil companies? You can verify everything in my post if you would take the time. I don't go to conspiracy sites and I don't have to, the encyclopedia, news clippings and documentaries are available and easy to access and track down thanks to the internet. There are enough real life dishonest business practices and dirty politics going on that I don't know who has time to waste on "conspiracy theories". Even if I am willing to grant everything you say is factual, it does not support your premise. For example, Condi Rice has been on numerous boards of large companies. ALL large corporations have famous individuals on their boards. Its an important position, but board members normally aren't involved with the daily operations of companies. It really is insignificant. sw Insignificant, are you kidding! OF COURSE IT'S SIGNIFICANT!!! It makes a major impact on our foreign and domestic policies when those at the top of our govt have held positions within OIL companies and war profiteering companies. Who do you think paid for putting them into office in the first place? Talk about buying influence. Not kidding. Being on a board like that is almost an honorary position. Do you think the other board members would allow one individual to act imprudently for their own self interest completely unrestrained? As I said, famous people literally rotate on and off boards of large corporations. It not that big a deal. Many serve on several boards at once. You are making something out of nothing. sw ps, I am being paid by Haliburton to post this stuff! No I'm not; you are attempting to make nothing out of something and it's no laughing matter. We're not talking about one individual either we're about several people who were not holding just 'honorary positions'. You should start verifying these statements you're making; you'll surprise youself. (Did you even read those links I gave you? They didn't come from the DNC either.) You don't have a problem with oil executives meeting to determine our environmental policies and keeping the particulars of that meeting secret from the public? Refer back to this [link] Here's another [link] Of course they're all insisting that they did no such thing. I don't believe them.

That's the rub; they've been trying to control it for years so they've kept trouble stirred up in a lot of foreign countries; they're instigators. Stir up trouble, go in and fix trouble, let the American taxpayer foot the bill for it (and have their kids die for it), then reap the profits. Of course they've been met with resistence where they weren't expecting any and you'd have thought they would have learned by now that when you mess with people's domestic policy you're gonna make enemies. Just look at what our govt did to Iran. They were on the verge of becoming a democracy in the 1950s until our CIA helped the British overthrow their democratic government and install a brutal dictator to be their puppet; because of oil primarily though they came up with a few other "excuses". [Operation Ajax] Of course the Shah was overthrown by Islamic militants in 1979 and we now have an enemy in Iran. Saddam Hussein, another brutal dictator, was "one of our friends" that was sold chemical weapons (or what was needed to make them) by American companies; it seems like nobody wants to acknowlege that now a days. It all revolves around the oil. On environmental policy, check out Cheney's 'classified' Energy Task Force [link]. It seems like everybody at the top right now is up to his or her eyeballs in either the oil business or the war contracting business. Even Condoleeza Rice is a former director at Cheveron; they were gonna name a oil tanker after her. But we're suppose to believe these people are interested in protecting the enviroment. I don't trust them to protect us from a terrorist attack (9/11 was on their watch) or the environment. I don't think we can do a thing about any of this. We're the little nobodys out here and we'll have to pay whatever they charge us. They even control whether or not any alternatives make it to the market for us to puchase. I'd like to see that movie about the Death of the Electric Car. Of course it'd probably just frustrate me too. It doesn't feel good to feel powerless. Brother, you've been watching too many conspiracy movies. Did you also hear the one about the car that ran on water that was invented but the inventor was killed by the big oil companies? You can verify everything in my post if you would take the time. I don't go to conspiracy sites and I don't have to, the encyclopedia, news clippings and documentaries are available and easy to access and track down thanks to the internet. There are enough real life dishonest business practices and dirty politics going on that I don't know who has time to waste on "conspiracy theories". Even if I am willing to grant everything you say is factual, it does not support your premise. For example, Condi Rice has been on numerous boards of large companies. ALL large corporations have famous individuals on their boards. Its an important position, but board members normally aren't involved with the daily operations of companies. It really is insignificant. sw Insignificant, are you kidding! OF COURSE IT'S SIGNIFICANT!!! It makes a major impact on our foreign and domestic policies when those at the top of our govt have held positions within OIL companies and war profiteering companies. Who do you think paid for putting them into office in the first place? Talk about buying influence.

That's the rub; they've been trying to control it for years so they've kept trouble stirred up in a lot of foreign countries; they're instigators. Stir up trouble, go in and fix trouble, let the American taxpayer foot the bill for it (and have their kids die for it), then reap the profits. Of course they've been met with resistence where they weren't expecting any and you'd have thought they would have learned by now that when you mess with people's domestic policy you're gonna make enemies. Just look at what our govt did to Iran. They were on the verge of becoming a democracy in the 1950s until our CIA helped the British overthrow their democratic government and install a brutal dictator to be their puppet; because of oil primarily though they came up with a few other "excuses". [Operation Ajax] Of course the Shah was overthrown by Islamic militants in 1979 and we now have an enemy in Iran. Saddam Hussein, another brutal dictator, was "one of our friends" that was sold chemical weapons (or what was needed to make them) by American companies; it seems like nobody wants to acknowlege that now a days. It all revolves around the oil. On environmental policy, check out Cheney's 'classified' Energy Task Force [link]. It seems like everybody at the top right now is up to his or her eyeballs in either the oil business or the war contracting business. Even Condoleeza Rice is a former director at Cheveron; they were gonna name a oil tanker after her. But we're suppose to believe these people are interested in protecting the enviroment. I don't trust them to protect us from a terrorist attack (9/11 was on their watch) or the environment. I don't think we can do a thing about any of this. We're the little nobodys out here and we'll have to pay whatever they charge us. They even control whether or not any alternatives make it to the market for us to puchase. I'd like to see that movie about the Death of the Electric Car. Of course it'd probably just frustrate me too. It doesn't feel good to feel powerless. Brother, you've been watching too many conspiracy movies. Did you also hear the one about the car that ran on water that was invented but the inventor was killed by the big oil companies? You can verify everything in my post if you would take the time. I don't go to conspiracy sites and I don't have to, the encyclopedia, news clippings and documentaries are available and easy to access and track down thanks to the internet. There are enough real life dishonest business practices and dirty politics going on that I don't know who has time to waste on "conspiracy theories".

Thanks Leonard. I have a couple questions you might be able to answer; sounds like you're up to the task. Did the female slaves have any protection in Old testament times or just male slaves? I'm thinking about all those virgin slaves that the Hebrews took into captivity after killing all their fathers, brothers and non virgin mothers. And, for some reason I'm thinking even the Hebrews were allowed to sell their daughters into slavery if they wanted to? Is that true? I don't know if that is actually in the bible so feel free to correct me on that if it isn't.

No I can't defend that. I wouldn't be able to do that if I was a slave.

That's the rub; they've been trying to control it for years so they've kept trouble stirred up in a lot of foreign countries; they're instigators. Stir up trouble, go in and fix trouble, let the American taxpayer foot the bill for it (and have their kids die for it), then reap the profits. Of course they've been met with resistence where they weren't expecting any and you'd have thought they would have learned by now that when you mess with people's domestic policy you're gonna make enemies. Just look at what our govt did to Iran. They were on the verge of becoming a democracy in the 1950s until our CIA helped the British overthrow their democratic government and install a brutal dictator to be their puppet; because of oil primarily though they came up with a few other "excuses". [Operation Ajax] Of course the Shah was overthrown by Islamic militants in 1979 and we now have an enemy in Iran. Saddam Hussein, another brutal dictator, was "one of our friends" that was sold chemical weapons (or what was needed to make them) by American companies; it seems like nobody wants to acknowlege that now a days. It all revolves around the oil. On environmental policy, check out Cheney's 'classified' Energy Task Force [link]. It seems like everybody at the top right now is up to his or her eyeballs in either the oil business or the war contracting business. Even Condoleeza Rice is a former director at Cheveron; they were gonna name a oil tanker after her. But we're suppose to believe these people are interested in protecting the enviroment. I don't trust them to protect us from a terrorist attack (9/11 was on their watch) or the environment. I don't think we can do a thing about any of this. We're the little nobodys out here and we'll have to pay whatever they charge us. They even control whether or not any alternatives make it to the market for us to puchase. I'd like to see that movie about the Death of the Electric Car. Of course it'd probably just frustrate me too. It doesn't feel good to feel powerless.

I don't see how there's enough dead dinosaurs to have supplied all the oil we've used already. I don't think the oil companies should be allowed to trash the planet to get it either because (unless it's a renewable resource like water) eventually the oil will run out everywhere......then what? As for gas prices; it's greed more than anything I think and American oil companies want to control ALL of it EVERYWHERE because whoever controls it....gets to price it. [link]

Yes that sounds pretty awful. It sounds like you could kill a slave but if the slave died a slow death you wouldn't be in any trouble. When I was trying to find verses on this I came across this link and it sounds like the issue of slavery brought about a lot of biblical criticism durings the 1800s.