John Lennon

The morals and values that this country was founded upon were by far the norm in america until after the 1960s with contraception being accepted and then abortion. Since these two terrible sins have been allowed to freely take place, we see the family being broken up, first by the use of contraception and the sex on demand mentality, sex with no responsibility, and then with that causing the legalization of abortion. Once you have made it clear that women are to be used as sexual objects by using birth control, then you diminish their dignity and importance and the sacredness of the marital act. The moral norm then gets foggy and you decide that killing your baby before it can be born is okay also. The root of abortion is contraception, and the root of both is sin nature. Divorce is what follows both of these, as we can readily see in the western world, since these two sins have been accepted, even by christians, the divorce rate has gone from less than 10% in this nation to almost half in 50 short years. Do you think people colletively will choose abstinence? In a perfect world maybe, but not this one!

Comparring the Christian coalition to Nazis?? Boy thats a real stretch. You might recall the Nazis killed millions and millions of people. They also were no followers of Jesus Christ or any religion for that matter. Why do Christians have to get involved with politics? That a real simple question to answer, because our politicians create and pass laws that are against the moral good of society. Abortion is the easiest example to show but there are others. We live in a country where a women can walk into a clinic and kill an unborn human life in the third trimester. We aren't talking about killing a unborn baby 12 weeks into a pregnency but rather talking a human life that is minutes away from being fully born and sticking a pair of scissors in the back on the neck of the baby and terminanting a life. (This is clearly murder and if that same pregnant women walked into a gas station and was killed during a robbery the robber would be tried on two counts of murder, so you tell me wants the difference?) When put in these terms, most people would say thats sick and might add very Nazi like. So what do we do as people of this great country, sit back and say hey keep killing babies we aren't going to get involved. No we vote for pro-life politicians who have the common sense to realize that killing babies is very bad. Groups such as the Christian coalition are leading the fight on such moral issues. [/quote/ So just answer this one question are you o.k. with a doctor killing a perfectly innoncent child in the third trimester (or any trimester for that matter) because this is what the mother wants? The good mommy should have taken birth control measures before getting pregneant! "sigh'...this is such a deep socio-econimic issue.But there 'are' liberals against abortion-I'm one of them.

What I see is a fear of dying. I know that sounds simplistic but it's true..we are afraid of the unknown. So we invent this place where life is everlasting as a security blanket thru our lives to give it this glimmer of hope at the end. But,..it could be we get one chance at life and that's it. I'm afraid too sometimes..how and what is life all about-we want it to have purpose. Maybe all that awaits is a peaceful sleep that we don't wake up from-and in reality, only the dead know, but they can't come back and tell us the real deal can they?

Comparring the Christian coalition to Nazis?? Boy thats a real stretch. You might recall the Nazis killed millions and millions of people. They also were no followers of Jesus Christ or any religion for that matter. Why do Christians have to get involved with politics? That a real simple question to answer, because our politicians create and pass laws that are against the moral good of society. Abortion is the easiest example to show but there are others. We live in a country where a women can walk into a clinic and kill an unborn human life in the third trimester. We aren't talking about killing a unborn baby 12 weeks into a pregnency but rather talking a human life that is minutes away from being fully born and sticking a pair of scissors in the back on the neck of the baby and terminanting a life. (This is clearly murder and if that same pregnant women walked into a gas station and was killed during a robbery the robber would be tried on two counts of murder, so you tell me wants the difference?) When put in these terms, most people would say thats sick and might add very Nazi like. So what do we do as people of this great country, sit back and say hey keep killing babies we aren't going to get involved. No we vote for pro-life politicians who have the common sense to realize that killing babies is very bad. Groups such as the Christian coalition are leading the fight on such moral issues. [/quote/

It's really not being right or wrong thats the issue. The Atheist proclaims there is no God, The believer proclaims there is a God, But it cannot be proven in either case. Hence,.Who is right-who is wrong and you debate endlessly. It is mankind's huge question!

If all these religions would truly allow diversity and not be so judgemental of different faiths, and at the same time have the freedom to worship within their own cultures-coexistence could be a lot more attainable. We all have to allow other people of different faiths, race, sexual orientation and so on the same basic liberties if we are to live in a free world.

Here we go again with the voodoo = Islam = Christianity = Taoism argument. Isn't it obvious this is just not true? While that may "sound" appealing, history itself ought to be enough to show you that its just wrong. "good" is not within us, unless we have Jesus, and even then it isn't of ourselves. [/qoute/That's YOUR we're born condemned belief; because all roads lead to Jesus-for YOU.

Well, you're right that all our religions are manmade. Christianity is of course a religion, what else coud you call it? You think that undermines what Christianity means to all it's followers=because you feel that all those other 'Religions' equate to false teachings. Muslims call all other religions false and they feel just as much conviction as you. So you have a world of 'conflicting' religions breeding this kind of intolerance. Who's right?- who's wrong? It's just sad that the 'intolerant religions' cannot grasp the idea of freedom to worship should apply to all other faiths outside of their own. This notion of converting the world to one religion, or 'all those other pagans are going to hell' can do nothing but further divide people to say the least! September 11 is a tragic example of the road we are on.

You're so right. Anyway, I can't even get my dog to do what I tell him to.

Zealotry out of control can 'lead' to fascist control over people. In my original topic I said " I fear the rise of Fascism in Christianity. Don't think it could'nt happen here! Can lead to-is not saying we live under Christian rule....Yet.

Wasn't it you who mentioned he was born again? It seemed like you were saying he was a christian who killed Lennon "for God" or something? What say I? "Ye shall reap what you sew" He can find forgiveness for his soul but he will still have to pay the price for sin in this life. Well, Chapman has given that as part of his reason, it could have come down to jealousy. So many zealots who claim to kill in the name of God have underlying true motives-Jealousy is a powerful negative force! I had a lot of anger over Chapman killing Lennon, But Lennon probably would not want people to hate Chapman. I do think he said he felt remorse for what he did to Barbara Walters.

Wasn't it you who mentioned he was born again? It seemed like you were saying he was a christian who killed Lennon "for God" or something? What say I? "Ye shall reap what you sew" He can find forgiveness for his soul but he will still have to pay the price for sin in this life. Well, Chapman has given that as part of his reason, it could have come down to jealousy. So many zealots who claim to kill in the name of God have underlying true motives-Jealousy is a powerful negative force!

Also, it's words being exchanged-not violence! And by the way..if the majority of members here wish that I change the username, I will. Some of the Christian usernames are kind of odd..but it's their thing! I joined a CHRISTIAN discussion forum and I will abide by it's rules. This outer-court forum is an excellent idea, whoever thought of it has really got something started here. Respectfully-JL.

This forum isn't about John Lennon and Paul McCartney. And did I say again that your use of his name is disrespectful? You seem to be upset. And about what? Something someone said about Paul McCartney? There are message boards for that and this isn't one of them. Fair enough..I was indeed defending John Lennon being demonized. I mean, that is ridiculous that's all. This is just people debating something they don't agree on. To state that John Lennon..for all his faults,equates to Satan is a bit extreme. Don't you agree? Firstly, you have not once addressed the use of his name being disrespectful. I agree only that JL had a gift for music and in the music industry will go down as a legend as well as the rest of the Beatles. I don't judge the living or respectfully the dead so in a way, yes I can agree with you that we have some very enthusiastic Christians. Perhaps it was extreme without any back up but let's not let this thread turn in to whether or not JL was a satanist. I don't really care. He is dead. I'm alive, you are alive, why waste your energy in getting angry on a theory? Now, are you idolizing him by using his name or is it some kind of joke? I'm seriously curious and wish you would address that question. I also need to add that his love for yoko was amazing kind of love as if they truly belonged together. I always admired that about the couple. spreading the love! Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace If you go to that website and see what I'm describing you would understand why I fired back in response to it. It's ridiculous! As Lypse pointed out clearly-many Christians feel a deep conviction about their faith and defend it with a vengeance! They will go to a lot of trouble to make their point..that website is an example! Look, these veiwpoints turn into a heated exchange without anybody having to give it a shove.

Well, alright. Would I find that book at a Christian book store?

This forum isn't about John Lennon and Paul McCartney. And did I say again that your use of his name is disrespectful? You seem to be upset. And about what? Something someone said about Paul McCartney? There are message boards for that and this isn't one of them. Fair enough..I was indeed defending John Lennon being demonized. I mean, that is ridiculous that's all. This is just people debating something they don't agree on. To state that John Lennon..for all his faults,equates to Satan is a bit extreme. Don't you agree?

What's Baloney? Mark Chapman is a nut case=You BET! He wanted Fame...He got a prison cell! Am I missing anything? Where does the devil come into this?

That hilarious website "Demonizing" John Lennon was the funniest thing I ever saw!!! I only have one response to it.....The goat is just a symbol of the "devil" like so many others..How do you connect that to an album cover with Paul McCartney?

No..a lot of us don't practice what we preach. We are human, I think some of those partying antics Lennon pulled were a simple example of substance abuse, something he had to grapple with and overcome. Look what Jim Morrison did to himself! And that Christ statement=all the Beatles paid for-they lost millions over that! My origional topic was the song Imagine itself..not anyone of us is perfect! He who is without sin, cast the first stone..The Christian Mantra! Maybe the imperfect man invisioned a perfect utopia..after all the Christian "HEAVEN" is also an invisioned utopia!!! IMAGINE.

He just couldn't get along with Paul. Peace, Dave Good point. Yeah, Excellent point Matthitjah! A classic case of 'didn't practice what he preached'!

Yes, indeed, John Lennon is dead. I knew he was in trouble the MINUTE he said that the beatles were bigger than Christ! John Lennon is dead "He lives for ever and ever" His comment that you qouted-was part of the basis of Mark Chapmans' supposed reason to murder him. Chapman claims to be a born- again Christian. One small example of murder in the name of your God! And listen Christians.....The man is dead but the ideas are not!

And did I mention Voodoo? I think you have me confused with someone else!

Here we go again with the voodoo = Islam = Christianity = Taoism argument. Isn't it obvious this is just not true? While that may "sound" appealing, history itself ought to be enough to show you that its just wrong. "good" is not within us, unless we have Jesus, and even then it isn't of ourselves. [/qoute/That's YOUR we're born condemned belief; because all roads lead to Jesus-for YOU.