jackie d

<snip>The United States also enjoys unprecedented wealth and prosperity, but as a nation we have turned our back on God. So why hasn't God judged America? Is it too late? Or is there still time?

who says God hasn't judged America? seems to me that the further debased and the more abominations that this country commits that we can visibly see the results of desolations caused by seared consciences and abominations throughout our country....so again, who says God hasn't judged America?

a few years ago I had landed a job that was f/t and it "appeared" to be exactly what I needed. I had been in recovery from drugs and alcohol, had a baby, and lived on state funds for over a year when I got this job.

Oh it was great, I had never done it before and picked it up so fast that within less than 6 months I was promoted to management! God's hand had to be in it. Well one morning while getting ready for work I heard "quit your job"...I said "Lord is that you?"...I received no reply. So I decided that could not have been God because why would He tell me to quit a job that had landed me the ability to have a bit of financial freedom that I was so good at. I decided it was the enemy who said that and I dismissed those words and went to work....

It took about 2 months for my entire life to fall apart again. I lost my job, relapsed back into drugs and lost custody of my child because of the relapse. The job was debt collecting. It was the most stressful job I had ever had. The ethics and morals of the work place were horrible. I believe that because of these factors and not listening to the order to quit my job, I ended up in the mess I was in. Today I do believe it was the Lord who told me to quit. Today I believe that if the Lord told me to quit a job that I would and that He would provide something that is better not only by the standards of ethics and morals but also by the standard of better prosperity.

So, in lieu of that, if God says to quit...then quit. Whenever one door is closed another door will be opened.

You are so right jackie d and your testimony shows just how strong the devil comes into our lives to decieve us out of the way. Many times I have been tricked myself. But we must keep our ears open only to the still small voice and let it guide us. The devil has a loud voice as he comes as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. Once again jackie d you have a wonderful testimony.

blessings

OC

The yucky talk to me is the OP - one's view of women.

???what's op?

I believe it is Original Post

okay, so here's my question....

when its good and it's easy, you know for sure it's God talking to you.

but, when what you're feeling and thinking you need is difficult and could lead to hard times (i.e. walking away from your job), how do you know for sure it's God leading you to do this, or if it's Satan, and his band of demons trying to destroy your life?

i posed this question last night at bible study; our leader said, obviously, to pray about it. well, the more i pray about it, the more my heart wants to do what my head is screaming not to do.

any comments?

a few years ago I had landed a job that was f/t and it "appeared" to be exactly what I needed. I had been in recovery from drugs and alcohol, had a baby, and lived on state funds for over a year when I got this job.

Oh it was great, I had never done it before and picked it up so fast that within less than 6 months I was promoted to management! God's hand had to be in it. Well one morning while getting ready for work I heard "quit your job"...I said "Lord is that you?"...I received no reply. So I decided that could not have been God because why would He tell me to quit a job that had landed me the ability to have a bit of financial freedom that I was so good at. I decided it was the enemy who said that and I dismissed those words and went to work....

It took about 2 months for my entire life to fall apart again. I lost my job, relapsed back into drugs and lost custody of my child because of the relapse. The job was debt collecting. It was the most stressful job I had ever had. The ethics and morals of the work place were horrible. I believe that because of these factors and not listening to the order to quit my job, I ended up in the mess I was in. Today I do believe it was the Lord who told me to quit. Today I believe that if the Lord told me to quit a job that I would and that He would provide something that is better not only by the standards of ethics and morals but also by the standard of better prosperity.

So, in lieu of that, if God says to quit...then quit. Whenever one door is closed another door will be opened.

blessings

blah blah blah...18 pages of re-runs from every other thread that is started about women, modesty and what they should or should not wear and still(just as always) there has not been a middle ground reached....why am I not surprised?

Sometimes it is best just to keep out of these places. And this thread is a perfect example of lack of meat being fed to each other in this place. I'm sick to death of milk!

oops...I think I misunderstood one of the posts. If I offended please forgive me.

Get with the program Jackie.

I'm trying artsy...truly I am!!!!

oh woe is me...I'm never gonna fit in here Even if I do switch to skirts and overcoats!

oops...I think I misunderstood one of the posts. If I offended please forgive me.

What this world needs

Is for us to care more about the inside than the outside.

Have we become so blind that we can't see?

God's gotta change her heart before He changes her shirt.

What this world needs

Is for us to stop hiding behind our relevance.

Blendin` in so well that people can't see the difference

And it's the difference that sets the world free.

What this world needs

Is a Savior who will rescue,

A Spirit who will lead,

A Father who will love them in their time of need.

A Savior who will rescue,

A Spirit who will lead,

A Father who will love,

That's what this world needs.

-Casting Crowns

I love Casting Crowns music!

I'm sorry everyone, but I get such a hoot out of seeing the same old conversation over and over again about such mundane "issues" as whether or not wearing pants is immodest. Here I am reading through the thread and there is one person here who spoke of her size and describing what she wears in a way that takes from her proclamation of modesty and another speaking of the wind catching her skirt and bringing it up so high that the world can see nether land, and then claim modesty!!!! That is so laughable I'm rolling!! Aint nothin like contradicting ones self.

As for those who think that a woman must wear a skirt to maintain modesty vs wearing pants all I have to say is this. When I go to church I am not going to church to get the approval of people, I go there to glorify the Lord and since the Lord knows what I look like inside and out, He isn't too concerned if I am wearing slacks, jeans, or a skirt....

Like many others here you all pretty much know my POV on this subject.

Thanks it was entertaining to say the least

what is wrong with people!! this makes me angry the woman did the right thing and she gets fired for it. How could anyone sleep at night knowing something like that was going on and not do something about it except to wait for someone else to step up to the plate when they are darned good and ready! And what if that man had hurt a child during their "investigation"....GRRRRRRRRRR!!

We don

i started to read your response and dont understand that after decades of studying you

havent placed some simple pieces together.

you do know that EVERYONE saved will receive "heavenly" rewards for their deeds right?

No it is not salvation because salvation is what qualified you to receive rewards.

Anyone saved will be eligible and all that are not saved will not.

youre quoting Math 16:24-27 and place in bold "rewards." So im thinking that you think the "reward" is slavation?

I think Mat 20 describes the benefit of reward, who will receive and how much. ....from this parable it appears that there is no differentiation of who came first and how much work they performed. I think......

Mat 20:1 "FOR the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.

Mat 20:2 "Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

Mat 20:3 "And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

Mat 20:4 "and said to them, 'You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.' So they went.

Mat 20:5 "Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise.

Mat 20:6 "And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle,[fn1] and said to them, 'Why have you been standing here idle all day?'

Mat 20:7 "They said to him, 'Because no one hired us.' He said to them, 'You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.'[fn2]

Mat 20:8 "So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, 'Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.'

Mat 20:9 "And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.

Mat 20:10 "But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received

each a denarius.

Mat 20:11 "And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,

Mat 20:12 "saying, 'These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.'

Mat 20:13 "But he answered one of them and said, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?

Mat 20:14 'Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.

Mat 20:15 'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?'

Mat 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."[fn3]

I believe scripture shows that indeed some who have faith will later not have faith. This may certainly be evidenced by their sinful lives which are not truly repented of. Consider the parable of the sower.

However, all Christians sin all of their life and these sins are forgiven as we have faith and that faith which give us access to grace, which actually saves us; leads us continually to repentance and a desire to do better. But I think some of this discussion is now leaning dangerously close to a salvation by works. If we cannot earn our salvation through our works, we cannot lose it either. All works can do is evidence who we are as believers, or evidence who we are as non-believers. We should WANT to do what pleases God, when we do not want to do this we have lost our faith. But some of the worst sins cannot even be seen by men, a brittle self-righteous pride that feels the need to condemn others instead of looking deep inside them is one. The other is being jealous of the sinner

But, that does not mean that we stop heeding the warnings given. They were given for a reason.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I don't think that there is any here that believes we should not heed warnings.

I think I'm hearing you exrockstar...I don't think you are saying that deeds are not necessary but that they are not what gives us our eternal salvation. Work is as you stated regarding having faith in our parents and living by their guidelines and rules in hopes of pleasing them because we love and respect them. Not because it will make any difference regarding the fact that they are still our biological parents and nothing can change that.

I'm wondering though, what is the definition in the minds of others regarding works and obedience? Is it as some have said doing a good deed out of love for God and mankind or is it works that strive to show perfection to man and false piety to God, like the Pharisees. There is a fine line. Has it been defined in this thread?

i think some people here are saying that works and obedience are dependant on eternal salvation.

that is a huge debate. i just had to correct tsth OP about her using Heb 3 and 4 to support her point.

She can have her personal view but those Hebrew chapters talk about something different.

I agree that it is a huge debate. One I have unfortunately been involved in on both sides of the coin....the problem that I see with this debate is that if we leave out any aspect of the Doctrine of Salvation we no longer have the doctrine. It becomes soiled and confusing. And I agree it is belief in Him that saves us...as Paul stated, in the most simplistic manner describing salvation to man:

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This sums it up quite nicely. And as we all should know by now, this leads to the rest which is living by faith and obedience to God's Word.

exrockstar said"

Hebrews 3 has nothing to do with faith and belief in Jesus Christ. Hebrews 3 and 4 show how we reach spiritual maturity. We try to reach this point.

If you get it then great but if you dont then that's because youre convinced on your own interpretation.

I'll put this out here for anyone who sees what i am saying.

to expound on what you have said here

Hbr 5:5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him:

"You are My Son,

Today I have begotten You."[fn1]

Hbr 5:6 As He also says in another place:

"You are a priest forever

According to the order of Melchizedek";[fn2]

Hbr 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,

Hbr 5:8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.

Hbr 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Hbr 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Hbr 5:13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

Hbr 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. <spiritual maturity>

Hbr 6:1 THEREFORE, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

Hbr 6:2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

all one has to do is read Hebrews 3 and 4 and see how Paul says. That "rest" is acheived here in our lifetime and not after in death.

This "rest" is not heaven nor anything given to us after death.

You believe today and get paid today NOT when you die.

agreed

Hbr 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.

Hbr 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

Hbr 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Hbr 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. <I find it interesting that Paul emphasises being diligent to enter rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience>

So with these verses we can see salvation in a more complete way. As we are to enter rest, yet will not without belief, faith and obedience to do it. Paul also takes note that we should not continue feeding ourselves with milk but move onto the meat. The milk is what we received when we learned of salvation and the other basic principles of Christ.

You see, you believe you know who youre biological parents are. Through faith you know that this is true so you call them mom and dad. However, through faith you are following the rules and guidelines that are set to you by them in hopes that you will become

a successful mature adult n their eyes. But you believing in what your parents teach you has NOTHING to do with you believing who

youre biological parents are.

I think I'm hearing you exrockstar...I don't think you are saying that deeds are not necessary but that they are not what gives us our eternal salvation. Work is as you stated regarding having faith in our parents and living by their guidelines and rules in hopes of pleasing them because we love and respect them. Not because it will make any difference regarding the fact that they are still our biological parents and nothing can change that.

I'm wondering though, what is the definition in the minds of others regarding works and obedience? Is it as some have said doing a good deed out of love for God and mankind or is it works that strive to show perfection to man and false piety to God, like the Pharisees. There is a fine line. Has it been defined in this thread?

my point and intention of previous posts is this: faith and devotion lead me to obedience. Before I came to Him I was not obedient, but you see I had no faith and was most certainly not devoted to Him. As my life was changed by Him I desired and strove to be obedient because I love Him and wish to please Him. It is my belief and faith in Him that is the key to my being obedient....I have not taken works out of the equation because they are necessary, what I have done is emphacized faith over works as works cannot save me. As it is I fail miserably to be who He would have me be, if I had not faith in His promise and work upon the cross I would have given up long ago for my failure would remain my shame.

let's not forget that works without faith is also dead

I wouldn't consider marrying a man who would not kiss me before we were married. It would be just my luck he would be a terrible kisser and after the wedding would be much to late to back out. And yes, I mean it..... ...a person can still set boundries and be chaste until they are married even though they share a kiss.

Are you?

good question...

amen

all fine and good as long as we remember still that it is not our works that saves us but Christ! It would be oh so easy to leave that out and become like a Pharisee....it is the love for the Lord that leads me to strive to be good and obedient, and yet my obedience still does not save me.

Jackie,

<<<Our Father is oh so capable of revealing Himself to anyone at anytime, without them having to have the bible and other people to show them God. Truth is that God is the only One capable of bringing a person to a place of believing in Him and believing Him.>>>

AMEN! God can and does call us back to Him sometimes in very strange ways. I know I wasn't 'seeking' after God or Christ yet the direction I was going kept side tracking me to the bible, at every turn! Amazing to me how God shows Himself to each of us!

<<It really is quite simple. It is man who complicates the issue....IMO>>

I couldn't agree with this anymore if I had written it.

...welcome to Worthy mizzdy and God bless

thanks that was interesting

I second that amen, Alan.