Enquirer

I have always found this topic interesting. Personally I feel the betrayal was the will of God. The betrayal had to happen in order for Christ to die for our sins. Judas' fate was decided when Christ announced "one of you will betray me." How can Judas be blamed for something Christ himself said had to happen? Another interesting perspective on the betrayal is the recently discovered gospel of Judas. Yes I acknowledge it is a gnostic gospal but it is interesting non the less. I have a translated copy, in it Christ ASKS Judas to betray him telling him that by doing this he will be his greatest apostle. "But you will exceed all of them, for you will sacrifice the man that clothes me." If any credibility can be given to this gospel then the betrayal can most definately be seen as God's will, as God the son asked Judas to carry out the betrayal. All Jesus had to do to spare Judas the ignomy of "betrayor" was turn himself in to the Jewish leadership. If you recall, he continually dodged their best efforts. And much of the time they were attempting to kill him; so just dying was not the plan of God to be carried out by a willing saviour. It required the betrayal by the Jews, in this case represented by Judas, so the gentiles could be brought into covenant relationship with Jehovah. And God's wrath had to have justification when he finally expressed it upon those same Jews. God is a God of vengeance, not oppression. He is longsuffering, which indicates he used the Jews in their rebellion, not in obedience to his will. No, I do not think Judas' act was an act of obedience, just as David's numbering the people was not an act of obedience, but both were the will of God. When one disobeys God enough to bring God's wrath upon them, they still have opportunity to repent. It is only when God determines one is beyond salvaging that he will use them in their evil to carry out his will that requires some evil expression or other. Sometimes God is near the last straw of his patience, and sends someone to go ahead and finish the acts of disobedience so his wrath is justified, as in the case mentioned with David numbering the people. Judas was a thief, otherwise possibly a good man. We could say that about each of us I suppose, a good man but a liar, a good man but a fornicator, a good man but... see what I mean? If we do not overcome the natural man, in time God will use us in our weakness for his ultimate will; just as he did in the case of Judas.

Hey George. I'm New here and enthused by what I am reading. How does one locate these "appropriate forums?" I disagree with the concept that Jesus is God, coequal with the father, coeternal, and etc., however, I am not "set in stone" about it. I would like to be able to express my reasons with scripture, and see if anyone can "reason with me" about it.

As far back as the old testament there are also examples of how God saved his people, and they ALWAYS involve repentence. When the people forgot God and fell into rebellion, God would send them a conqueror; they would serve for a generation in slavery; They would then remember God, and pray and repent; God would then send them a deliverer. This went on for over four hundred years, cycling again and again, and can be read about in the book of Judges. Nehemiah 9:25b-27 tells us "..so they did eat and were filled and became fat and delighted themselves in thy great goodness. Nevertheless they were disobedient and rebelled against thee and cast thy law behind their backs and slew thy prophets which testified against them to turn them to thee, and they wrought great provocations. Therefore thou deli veredst them into the hand of their enemies who vexed them; and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. And in verse 28 "But after they had rest, they did evil again before thee; therefore leftest thou them in the hand of their enemies so that they ahd the dominion over them: yet when they returned (repented), and cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and MANY TIMES didst thou deliver them according to thy mercies..." And the account continues to expand on the subject through verse 31. And Acts 5:30-31 tells us "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom ye slew and hangded. Him hath God exalted with his right hand TO BE a prince and a saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." It was always God will that Israel repent. It was also always God way to give man the choice as reflected in "Choose YE this day whom YE will serve" as recorded in Joshua's record of events. It has ALWAYS been a matter of God's grace, man's choice, and God's judgment; man's repentance, God's mercy, and God's love.

. He may have been remorseful no worries, but even before Jesus was put to death, Judas was only sorry that he had betrayed Jesus, and he tried to return the money, hoping they might let Jesus go because Jesus was innocent of all charges against Him. The chief priests and Elders said, "What is that to us?" Matt. 27:4). They didn't care, they finally had Jesus who had escaped many times before ("Therefore they sought ""AGAIN"" to take him: but He escaped out of their hand," John 10:39), and thats all they wanted! When Judas saw that Jesus was caught and condemned to death, INSTEAD OF ESCAPING AS HE HAD DONE SO MANY TIMES BEFORE Judas was sorry and he repented himself, (Matt. 27:3), that is, he only regretted what he had done. He never went out and wept in repentance, or even just simply repented, as Peter did, when he realized what he had done in denying Jesus three times as Jesus had prophesised???? Judas, instead of repenting, brooded over his sin, he gave in to Satans temptation and committed suicide. He did commit suicide and to commit suice is to refuse Jesus Christ's death as repayement for sin. You see, Judas believed Satan, he assumed his sin was too great and just unforgivable, but not so!!!! God forgives all sin repented of in Jesus Holy Name because Jesus paid the penalty for us. The penalty for sin is death thats for sure, but Jesus paid the penalty. He does not require us to pay it. All Judas had to do is repent which he did not do, he killed himself instead anmd thats copping out even in these end times. Only a coward goes down that road. There are two different words that are translated from the Greek to English "Repent." One of them is strictly passive, indicating no action whatsoever on the part of the "Penitent" and it is a word that should have been more correctly translated "remorse." The other is active and reflects acts of a contrite and penitent heart. Judas was sorry for his action, but did not act upon his sorrow. He rather acted upon self destruction, which is not a reflection of repentence, but further rebellion agaisnt the God who made him.

So God is just teasing us when he said he "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance?" [2 Pet 3:9] Or how can God will something, but not provide the grace by which it can be accomplished? No, my friend, I perceive that to be doctrine, not scripture.

I do not believe it is God's will that any man perish, but that all men come to repentence. I also believe that God will eventually use every man in some fashion or another. Those who will willingly do his will, he will use for good. Those who oppose him, he will give adequate time for repentence, and if the opposer refuses to repent, God will use him in his evil, for evil. And I think Hazard has done adequate research to prove his point. And it is well iterated. Enquirer