ollkiller

Ah yes, child abuse. Like forcing kids to learn the times tables in math? Those who believe in creationism do not have a simple scientific misconception. Creationism has no relation to science. It is theology. Creationism is the truth. Science bears it out. Always. this thread was meant to get thoughts on what ye think of censorship on both sides. i'm not having a go at any poster but the above is indicitive of how each thread starts going towards creationism vs science. start a thread with that title if ye please. i'm just tired of each thread getting bogged down with this one topic. i could have picked any post, i'm not having a go at any of the users in this post, it was just a good example to use. or maybe i'm way off the mark

no your not. it's not just in america. it's coming in all over the world. britain has the most cctv cameras in the world .smoking ban comes in in ireland and england. licensing laws in ireland are now restricted in ireland. it's the same as always, 1 to 2% of the population cause trouble when intoxicated and the rest suffer. also referring to nanny states. pc correctness. why is everyone so easily offended nowadays. muslims in ireland complained about the nativity scene in our hospitals at christmas. hey mate if i go to dubai or saudi arabia i'm not going to feel offended when i see tributes to allah and i won't get offended when i can't buy a beer because it's the customs of the land. if you don't like it here we didn't ask you over.

by nanny state i mean when government censors something or when laws are passed that serve no purpose. By wicked nation do you mean turkey. If you do all i can say is i've been in turkey and the vast majority are the nicest people you will ever meet. They would do anything for you. I don't agree with americas foriegn policy but i don't view it as a wicked nation. When you say stumble on something right now and then what if your government censored this website because someone disagreed with the views on here how would you feel about it.

I know i can't post a link to the article because it's on richard dawkins website so here's the jist. Turkey has banned all internet users from accessing the Richard dawkins website following a court order. The order was brought up by Islamic creationist author Adnan Oktar who claims he was defamed by dawkins in his book the god delusion. Incidentially Oktar was found guilty of creating an illegal organization for personal gain and sentenced to three years imprisonment. He is now appealing that. I don't like the Jesus Camp docunmentary but that doesn't mean people should not be allowed to look at it for themselves and make a rational decision for themselves on the content. This character seems like a nut job but the court is probably more at fault for not throwing it out. It's like me trying to get this site closed down for people having certain views that are different to me. I really do think all over the world governments are bringing in nanny states. What's yer views lads and ladies.

Sorry for flagging this again. Theory of evolution essentially means facts of evolution. I have no problem if you dispute these facts. Everyone has to evaluate the information in front of them and choose what they believe.

Can i ask exactly what you mean by this?

no care to elaborate a bit more? I don't have to go out now so, my answer is no. Whether abiogenesis occured or not i believe we evolved. I was going to write a big spiel but that's it in a nutshell.

I have to head out for a bit so i'll deal with the abiogenesis a bit later if that's okay. Seems one takes a leap of faith and one does not... Your first idea... We are here, that we know. The universe has a begining, that we pretty much know. Agreed. Things may looked designed but it would be an imperfect design. Why do we have a blind spot in our eye. I don't logically assume a creator was at work. I don't know how the universe started. If you invoke a creator then who created the creator etc. In branches of mathematics extra dimensions seem to logically exist. In the future who knows what we can detect. For the moment you are right. At the moment i'm interested in the theory where two other universes collided and formed our universe. That invokes more universes and we're still left with the what created them question. I don't see either as the most logical because i haven't a clue how the universe started.

Why do you think he is so openly and enthusiastically hostile to religion? Christians are often told to not "push" their beliefs on others, and yet here is a guy that is more zealous than the vast majority of Christians in the world, and it is seen as a good thing for him. I thought christians were told to spread the word. Is that pushing belief or just informing. One for another day. Anyhow, there are many answers to your first question. Firstly anyone religious person who says the earth is less than 10,000 years old he is going to be hostile to. He fervently believes in evolution and dosen't take lightly creationism trying to be pushed in schools. From watching his documentaries he really dosen't like religion being taught to kids. It's the labeling of children as christian children or muslim children he abhors. I think he is being openly hostile to get the issue highlighted for debate, and in today's media the more outspoken you are, the more air time you get. Also he seems to really believe the world would be better without religion. I do agree if i was still christian i would see him as very abrupt. Hope that helps. I like his books and documentaries because they give the layman a good idea of good science. Anyone see the documentary.

would you agree with this statement then... to have the "fact" of evolution you have to have also the "fact" of abiogenesis? no As for your question to jukia about design. I see it as one of two things. One, It's designed by a creator hence, hey we're alive good design. Two, many universes exist and ours is one of billions that exist so in one the constants we see needed for life exist in one (maybe more) of these universes. Who's right, you decide.

would it be ok to comment on Richard Dawkins himself if we have not seen the show? no hassle at all dude, fire away.

This has been said in the thread before but i'm going to emphasie it so hopefully we will not encounter this mistake again. Theory of Evolution does not mean it's just a theory. When something has amassed enough evidence it's called a theory. It should be called the facts of evolution. Anyway, to the original question in the thread, it's a nice thought but it's not the way evolution works. Thankfully not anyway, i don't want to be fully functional when i'm born, i'd like a few years to relax and sit back before the stress of life takes hold. Are you suggesting the there is not enough evidence to allow evolution the status of a scientific theory?? No, quite the contrary, i meant that saying it's only a theory is false.

The programme Richard Dawkins "The Genius of Charles Darwin" was shown over this side of the atlantic on Channel 4 for the last three weeks. I was wondering did anyone here see it and if they have any views on the programme. I you haven't seen it its on the channel four website and various video websites(google it and you'll find it easily enough). My own view is firstly it didn't go as in-depth as i would have like but then again it was for a general viewing audience. He once again sought to put evolution against religion, i'm not really for this but on the other side if something is being taught in schools that isn't fact then as a scientist i think you have a duty to ensure that correct syllabus of the chosen subject is taught. The part about dna and how it corresponds to all living organisms and about how the reptillian jaw evolved from 8 bone parts into the human jaw with a fused bone was very interesting. So any thoughts. Disclaimer : if you want to say something about the documentary please at least have seen the documentary. I wouldn't comment on Jesus camp unless i had seen it.

This has been said in the thread before but i'm going to emphasie it so hopefully we will not encounter this mistake again. Theory of Evolution does not mean it's just a theory. When something has amassed enough evidence it's called a theory. It should be called the facts of evolution. Anyway, to the original question in the thread, it's a nice thought but it's not the way evolution works. Thankfully not anyway, i don't want to be fully functional when i'm born, i'd like a few years to relax and sit back before the stress of life takes hold.

Sorry my mistake, came up as the rolling eyes gif instead of the smiley gif for some reason. Later.

I see that you are a non-believer so you view makes sense to you. But as a Christian I would disgaree, because any sin that we do that affects us is wrong. You said as long as you live without harming other people that you are tolerant of that, but according to Scripture we don't have the right to harm ourselves either (harm as in sexual sins or any sin for that matter) because we were bought with a price, the blood of Jesus. as a christian i see why you would disagree. I understand how as a a christian it is your duty show people the way if they are doing bad things. I get it. We just differ on the what might lead to destruction in the end. I too respect your right to share. Difference is i won't tell you your wrong and i won't roll my eyes at you. It's bad manners.

I wouldn't be too bothered about arguing with them. The usual response is **** you, you douchbag. No intellect or intelligent argument going on just who can slag each other more. With every different topic in life you'll get one or two forums that have intelligent debate and a host of other forums where everyone slags each other or everyone agrees with each other(where's the fun in that haha). Just avoid the latter. That's why i post here. On the topic of christianity there is good reasonable debate.

From my view being a christian means you would probably be intolerant of things like homosexuality, abortion and general sin. Is that being intolerant or just following one's religious guidelines? My own view is i am a live and let live person. If you live and enjoy yourself without harming other people then i am tolerant of your lifesytle. Its when people do things that badly affect others is what i'm intolerant of. So regards christianity if you disagreed with homosexuality i would have no problem. That's your opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. But if you protested against homosexuality where you would be affecting the life of a homosexual person to a detrimental effect i would be intolerant of that. I'm only using homosexuality as an example.

As i've said before i opened myself to god many times. Laid myself bare for jesus and never felt one bit of difference in my life. Never felt his presence, holy spirit or anything that i could attribute to god having an influence in my life. I have always said i am open to god. Always. So in the end what more can i do. Should i blindly follow like a fake? I am a christian, and I think I can relate to the way you feel, because I have certain personal issues that would seem to be much in common with what you describe. Not gonna quote Bible verses at you, because I can't stand it when other christians do it to me. Well, maybe a paraphrase or two... I am a man, so I don't really know for sure, but I think you are essentially describing some things that a barren woman must feel when she cannot have children. All that trying and crying, and nothing ever happens. No fruit. But a barren woman still loves her husband, even though she has no children, and he loves her. Things don't work the same for all believers, if they did, we'd all be clones I guess. Do you blindly follow like a fake? Well, we should "examine ourself whether we are in the faith". WE shouldn't follow feelings, but feelings should come eventually. I don't think any of us truly know the Lord like we would like to. All we really have are glimpses, usually when we are deep in prayer or in deep necessity, or when someone else is. Being a christian is not easy. But if you keep seeking and keep believing, then one day you will be concieving. Its a test, you see. Will you give up just because your "sister" had one more child than you? Or because the handmaiden got a child before you? Will you give up because you don't "see" or "feel" results? Will you laugh at God because the promise seems impossible? I hope not. God will answer you, if you are sincere, and he will give you faith to believe and recieve. Jesus really does love you, so do not give up seeking him. I get what your saying. I'll leave it with this. I will always be open to god in my life. Whether i ever feel that connection, i'll just have to wait and see. All i can do is enjoy life as much as possible and see where the journey takes me.

As i've said before i opened myself to god many times. Laid myself bare for jesus and never felt one bit of difference in my life. Never felt his presence, holy spirit or anything that i could attribute to god having an influence in my life. I have always said i am open to god. Always. So in the end what more can i do. Should i blindly follow like a fake?

no just here for interesting debate. I don't think i get a degree of comfort from athiesm. Hey i wish i could believe that god created everything, i just don't find it plausible. Then again in years to come who knows what life's trials and successes will have on my outlook. Too true, they all agree so there's no debate, hence why i'm here. Have to disagree, i'm not insecure, i know you don't know me but i'd like to think i'm a pretty well rounded guy. I do get the feeling that certain people on this site have a certain view of what athiest people are like. As i've said here many times before don't judge all athiests on what a few say just as i won't judge all christians on what a few fundametalist christians would say. Have a good one.

ok here's my take Not all athiests join and immediately argue against god. I didn't. I'm just interested in other people's views. You don't get christian viewpoints on athiest boards. I lump them all in together. I see it as people having a belief, different religions yes but all looking for a creator. As id said i like to hear other people's views. I am on a few athiest boards but it's the same stuff that comes up, christian bashing with little debate. That's why i like coming here, good debates that make you think. Good. I feel great too. Later

Can I ask your point. Do you think they are wasting their time?