Believers Battlecry

Looks like we win 13-5. Good night everyone!

Wrong. Isiaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: This tells us that the Earth is round, man discovered this fact 2,400 years later. Also, in a time when science believed the earth was flat, it was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world.

I mean no offense, but this reply reveals you're really not educated enough on this issue to be attempting to take a definitive stance for or against it. I'd highly encourage you to read/study some sources outside of AIG. For instance people like Phil Johnson, Bill Dembski or Michael Behe. I agree, I don't know enough about ID, except it is better than evolution, but I believe in a literal Genesis interpretation, you believe in an Intelligent Designer. You do too and you don't even realize it. The problem I have with ID is that it does not clearly define who that IDer is. I believe the God of the Bible created the earth, ID does not name a designer. You don't know anything about it, haven't studied it...and yet you're qualified to state your "problem" with it? You are apparently the ID expert here, answer the question, does the ID theory clearly state who the IDer is? Why as a Christian would we want to disregard the true ID, aka God, in Genesis 1:1-11 but accept Him everywhere else?

Honestly, I've never understood why some believers use the interpretation of "day" in the creation account as a litmus test for fellow believers. It's like, if you don't believe in 6, 24 hour days then you must not believe any of the bible. This is absurd, and frankly graceless. There are numerous well-educated, believing scholars on both sides of this debate. So obviously, there is enough ambiguity to allow for some grace. Just because someone holds a different interpretation of "day" does not mean they disregard or "undermine" the totality of Scripture. Instead of using this as a reference for judgment, we should appreciate that we at least agree that all things were created by God, and God alone. Believer's Battlecry, did you agree/disagree with this post or just ignore it? I was just curious because topics like these can tend to get ugly real fast if each side doesn't allow for some grace when it comes to interpretting the word "day". I apologize I did not see it. To me the Bible is so clear that it was a literal 24 hours. It says Day/Evening. When have you ever heard someone use day and evening to talk about a week, year or 10 years. The Bible has such simple truths if only we will allow it. If Genesis 1:5 stated "And the evening and the morning were the first 1,000 years, do you think anyone in their right mind would deduce that maybe "1, 000 years" really meant one 24 hour day????? God help us! I stand on 2 Timothy 3:16 -All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: and Hebrews 4:12 -For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Mate...will Jesus literally have a sword coming out of His mouth...and will He literally look like a lamb? You will find out on Judgment day. What a clown! You're avoiding it. Will He literally look that way? Or, how about, was the tree in Nebuchadnezzar's dream literally seen around the world? To me Day and Evening is about as clear as you can get. Yes, Jesus used parables, not everything is literal. Your point is taken.

Honestly, I've never understood why some believers use the interpretation of "day" in the creation account as a litmus test for fellow believers. It's like, if you don't believe in 6, 24 hour days then you must not believe any of the bible. This is absurd, and frankly graceless. There are numerous well-educated, believing scholars on both sides of this debate. So obviously, there is enough ambiguity to allow for some grace. Just because someone holds a different interpretation of "day" does not mean they disregard or "undermine" the totality of Scripture. Instead of using this as a reference for judgment, we should appreciate that we at least agree that all things were created by God, and God alone. Believer's Battlecry, did you agree/disagree with this post or just ignore it? I was just curious because topics like these can tend to get ugly real fast if each side doesn't allow for some grace when it comes to interpretting the word "day". I apologize I did not see it. To me the Bible is so clear that it was a literal 24 hours. It says Day/Evening. When have you ever heard someone use day and evening to talk about a week, year or 10 years. The Bible has such simple truths if only we will allow it. If Genesis 1:5 stated "And the evening and the morning were the first 1,000 years, do you think anyone in their right mind would deduce that maybe "1, 000 years" really meant one 24 hour day????? God help us! I stand on 2 Timothy 3:16 -All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: and Hebrews 4:12 -For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Mate...will Jesus literally have a sword coming out of His mouth...and will He literally look like a lamb? You will find out on Judgment day. What a clown! You've been a member here one day, and you have already begun to insult people here. Tsk, tsk. Your aim in this is. . . what? Is calling people clowns your idea of acceptable behavior? Are you the Forum Police????

I mean no offense, but this reply reveals you're really not educated enough on this issue to be attempting to take a definitive stance for or against it. I'd highly encourage you to read/study some sources outside of AIG. For instance people like Phil Johnson, Bill Dembski or Michael Behe. I agree, I don't know enough about ID, except it is better than evolution, but I believe in a literal Genesis interpretation, you believe in an Intelligent Designer. You do too and you don't even realize it. The problem I have with ID is that it does not clearly define who that IDer is. I believe the God of the Bible created the earth, ID does not name a designer.

Honestly, I've never understood why some believers use the interpretation of "day" in the creation account as a litmus test for fellow believers. It's like, if you don't believe in 6, 24 hour days then you must not believe any of the bible. This is absurd, and frankly graceless. There are numerous well-educated, believing scholars on both sides of this debate. So obviously, there is enough ambiguity to allow for some grace. Just because someone holds a different interpretation of "day" does not mean they disregard or "undermine" the totality of Scripture. Instead of using this as a reference for judgment, we should appreciate that we at least agree that all things were created by God, and God alone. Believer's Battlecry, did you agree/disagree with this post or just ignore it? I was just curious because topics like these can tend to get ugly real fast if each side doesn't allow for some grace when it comes to interpretting the word "day". I apologize I did not see it. To me the Bible is so clear that it was a literal 24 hours. It says Day/Evening. When have you ever heard someone use day and evening to talk about a week, year or 10 years. The Bible has such simple truths if only we will allow it. If Genesis 1:5 stated "And the evening and the morning were the first 1,000 years, do you think anyone in their right mind would deduce that maybe "1, 000 years" really meant one 24 hour day????? God help us! I stand on 2 Timothy 3:16 -All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: and Hebrews 4:12 -For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. You didn't really address what I said. I stand on the same Scriptures you do, I worship the same God, and believe His Word is inerrant. But you and I hold differing interpretations of one word ...yom. If we agree on the important issues, my question again is...why do you feel the need to question my faith or trust in the entirety of God's Word based on this one difference? Again, there is enough ambiguity in these verses it is nearly impossible (at least at this point) for either side to claim which is right. The very fact that you don't even understand the ID theory shows that you haven't even looked into the evidence to support the theory. So, even though you responded (sorta) to what I said...I'm still left to wonder why you think you're in a position to judge those who hold a differing view? Where am I judging you? We disagree on the interpretation of the words Day and Evening. Can you answer this question: If Genesis 1:5 stated "And the evening and the morning were the first 1,000 years, do you think anyone in their right mind would deduce that maybe "1, 000 years" really meant one 24 hour day?????

Honestly, I've never understood why some believers use the interpretation of "day" in the creation account as a litmus test for fellow believers. It's like, if you don't believe in 6, 24 hour days then you must not believe any of the bible. This is absurd, and frankly graceless. There are numerous well-educated, believing scholars on both sides of this debate. So obviously, there is enough ambiguity to allow for some grace. Just because someone holds a different interpretation of "day" does not mean they disregard or "undermine" the totality of Scripture. Instead of using this as a reference for judgment, we should appreciate that we at least agree that all things were created by God, and God alone. Believer's Battlecry, did you agree/disagree with this post or just ignore it? I was just curious because topics like these can tend to get ugly real fast if each side doesn't allow for some grace when it comes to interpretting the word "day". I apologize I did not see it. To me the Bible is so clear that it was a literal 24 hours. It says Day/Evening. When have you ever heard someone use day and evening to talk about a week, year or 10 years. The Bible has such simple truths if only we will allow it. If Genesis 1:5 stated "And the evening and the morning were the first 1,000 years, do you think anyone in their right mind would deduce that maybe "1, 000 years" really meant one 24 hour day????? God help us! I stand on 2 Timothy 3:16 -All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: and Hebrews 4:12 -For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Mate...will Jesus literally have a sword coming out of His mouth...and will He literally look like a lamb? You will find out on Judgment day. What a clown!

I mean no offense, but this reply reveals you're really not educated enough on this issue to be attempting to take a definitive stance for or against it. I'd highly encourage you to read/study some sources outside of AIG. For instance people like Phil Johnson, Bill Dembski or Michael Behe. I agree, I don't know enough about ID, except it is better than evolution, but I believe in a literal Genesis interpretation, you believe in an Intelligent Designer.

Honestly, I've never understood why some believers use the interpretation of "day" in the creation account as a litmus test for fellow believers. It's like, if you don't believe in 6, 24 hour days then you must not believe any of the bible. This is absurd, and frankly graceless. There are numerous well-educated, believing scholars on both sides of this debate. So obviously, there is enough ambiguity to allow for some grace. Just because someone holds a different interpretation of "day" does not mean they disregard or "undermine" the totality of Scripture. Instead of using this as a reference for judgment, we should appreciate that we at least agree that all things were created by God, and God alone. Believer's Battlecry, did you agree/disagree with this post or just ignore it? I was just curious because topics like these can tend to get ugly real fast if each side doesn't allow for some grace when it comes to interpretting the word "day". I apologize I did not see it. To me the Bible is so clear that it was a literal 24 hours. It says Day/Evening. When have you ever heard someone use day and evening to talk about a week, year or 10 years. The Bible has such simple truths if only we will allow it. If Genesis 1:5 stated "And the evening and the morning were the first 1,000 years, do you think anyone in their right mind would deduce that maybe "1, 000 years" really meant one 24 hour day????? God help us! I stand on 2 Timothy 3:16 -All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: and Hebrews 4:12 -For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

"Answers in Genesis really isn't a reliable site." Please back this up with some evidence. Thank you. None of them are legitimate scientists. Is this just your opinion? Please back this up with some evidence. Thank you. Go look at their site. Ken Ham is their main guy. The guy has a bachelor's degree in applied science, with an emphasis on environmental science. The two doctorates he holds are both honorary, and non-scientific. Compare this to proponents of the ID movement who almost all hold doctorates in scientific (or scientific related) fields. Who is the Intelligent Designer, if it is not the God of the Bible?

"Answers in Genesis really isn't a reliable site." Please back this up with some evidence. Thank you. None of them are legitimate scientists. Is this just your opinion? Please back this up with some evidence. Thank you.

Why do you believe that the earth is much older than 6,000 years old?

"Answers in Genesis really isn't a reliable site." Please back this up with some evidence. Thank you.

"Answers in Genesis really isn't a reliable site." Please back this up with some evidence. Thank you.

Here is the problem, either the creation accounts in Genesis are metaphorical, or its literal and the earth is but 6000 years old and thus God's creation, meaning the entire universe and all life in it, is a lie. Actually, there's even another option. You can still hold the 6 days as "literal" but hold that "day" (yom) represents an era (or epic of time). Just as "day" in English can mean several things, for instance: 1. 24 hour period: "We went to the store that day". 2. Period of light during the 24 hours: "Tomorrow we will talk during the day". 3. An indeterminate period of time: "Back in the day, we used to walk to school". The word "yom" can be used to express these three different concepts, just as the word "day" does in English. Therefore, a person (such as myself) can still hold to the biblical creation account, still hold that it is literally true (and a literal 6 days), and yet embrace the concept that those 'days' represented billions of years instead of a 24 hour period. To understand the meaning of

The Genesis account is not 6, 24 hour days. This thing has been hashed out so many times that it is almost getting old. Six literal day creation has scriptural problems it simply can not reconcile. Can you explain Genesis 1:5? Yes, that is simple. The evening and the morning were symbolic of ending and beginning. 24 hour days, the sun and the moon, were created on day 4. Please explain how 1:5 is reference to a 24 hour day, considering the 24 hour day was created on day 4. Please read the following and check out Answers in Genesis for more study. According to Genesis 1, the sun was not created until day four. How could there be day and night (ordinary days) without the sun for the first three days? Answer a) Again, it is important for us to let the language of God

What is amazing is that you have a book that clearly defines what we consider one whole day " morning, evening" and we totally reject that it could remotely be possibly, maybe be 24 hours like what we know now, but we will take a "man-made theory" of one million years, WOW that takes faith. I guess I will stick to the Book that has been around the longest. When you throw out the Genesis account of Creation you undermine the rest of the Bible. Like it or not!

The Genesis account is not 6, 24 hour days. This thing has been hashed out so many times that it is almost getting old. Six literal day creation has scriptural problems it simply can not reconcile. Can you explain Genesis 1:5?

I follow this directive. As someone else pointed out, we are all called on to witness, we are not all called on to be evangelists, that is a special gift. Witnessing to someone without being led by the Holy Spirit does more harm than good, and you run the risk of building up a wall that may never come down for anyone else that trys to witness. I don't think anyone has said that you advocate screaming and yelling at people, but you are coming across as someone who thinks we should just go up to someone cold and start witnessing to them no matter what. You can't do that. In most cases, people will brand you as a nut, and again, you do damage that might be irreversible. Just telling someone you'll pray for them or some other polite statement will go more to plant a seed, and perhaps result in a sprout for someone else than anything else you can do. We try and take on too much sometimes thinking we are the be-all, end-all and forgetting that maybe we are just starting something that God is going to have someone else finish. . . What if that person that you did not walk up to cold would get hit by a car and die in the next 5 minutes. Kowing that would you put off your fear and approach that person and share the love of Christ. Paul said we are to be instant in season and out of season. So God needs us to save people? He is completely dependent upon whether or not we evangelize? Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel. We are His servants.

I follow this directive. As someone else pointed out, we are all called on to witness, we are not all called on to be evangelists, that is a special gift. Witnessing to someone without being led by the Holy Spirit does more harm than good, and you run the risk of building up a wall that may never come down for anyone else that trys to witness. I don't think anyone has said that you advocate screaming and yelling at people, but you are coming across as someone who thinks we should just go up to someone cold and start witnessing to them no matter what. You can't do that. In most cases, people will brand you as a nut, and again, you do damage that might be irreversible. Just telling someone you'll pray for them or some other polite statement will go more to plant a seed, and perhaps result in a sprout for someone else than anything else you can do. We try and take on too much sometimes thinking we are the be-all, end-all and forgetting that maybe we are just starting something that God is going to have someone else finish. . . What if that person that you did not walk up to cold would get hit by a car and die in the next 5 minutes. Kowing that would you put off your fear and approach that person and share the love of Christ. Paul said we are to be instant in season and out of season.

Actually, shouldn't we do these things because we love? (1 Cor. 13) Of course, they are expressions of love. His point was that we don't do them in order to reach a goal or get anything in return. We should be motivated to do these things because we love God and love others. Not because we are trying to to manipulate them or gain something. God gets the glory when we do these things, whether they ever come to faith in Christ or not. Does it concern you Kabowd that someone you know personally may die and go to Hell and you didn't talk to them about it because you didn't it was your job to speak to them out of love about their never-dying soul? Does it concern you that approximately 40 million people are infected with HIV, and 5 people die from AIDS every minute? Does it concern you that approximately 15 million Americans can be classified as living below poverty level? We are not only called to care about those who are dying and their souls, but also those who are living and the quality of their living conditions. I can't cure AIDS in the world, but we can teach abstinence. Most of the spread of AIDS is through illicit sex and IV drug use. We dont have the cure for AIDS, but we do have the cure for sin...the blood of Jesus Christ!!!

Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler (Matt 19:16-22)NKJV 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him,

Actually, shouldn't we do these things because we love? (1 Cor. 13) If we love Him we will keep His commandments and if we truly love our neighbor we dont want to see them go to Hell...Do we??? We don't want people to go to Hell, but merely screaming at people to follow the word of God and repent won't convince anyone, it will just make them angry. I compare it to the Aesop fable about the sun and the wind making a bet to see who could remove a man's coat. The wind tried to blow the coat off the man, and push him over, but it only made the man grip his coat tighter. The sun however just made everything nice and warm, and the man eventually sat down underneath a tree and took his coat off. If we try to make people believe in God, we will encounter resistance. But if we act as an example of God's love in our everyday life, more people will want to be like us, and we will convert more people. Who has said anything about "screaming at people to follow the word of God and repent " We must follow the direction of the Holy Spirit and bypass their intellect and speak directly to the conscience by using Gods Law. Dont categorize speaking to someone about Hell and their eternal soul with some fanatical dooms day prophet. I dont think you are being fair.