Vickilynn

Shalom Dennis, I thank you for your gracious reply and I too love to discuss the Sabbath with Christians who have an open heart to hear the truth. I don't mind if we don't agree on all points! I am open to learning from you! I apologize on behalf of those who have wrongly accused you and not taken your word as truth. The L-rd will judge. For now, the issue is not whether someone is an SDA or not, since everyone in this thread has said that they are not, we should simply discuss the issues of Sabbath and not let others try to derail the thread into an SDA debate. I too love my SDA brethren and have found them to be wonderful Christians. I agree with many of their teachings, but there are some that I do not agree with. And that's OK. I do know fundamentally, they are a Christian denomination (at least those SDAs who do not place their foundation on Ellen White as a prophet). That said, let us leave behind the SDA discussion and simply continue on regarding what G-d says about Sabbath, may we? I agree. That's OK, I'll seek out your posts! Exactly. Did you read my responses on this issue? I believe that we are to walk in G-d's commands and the perfection is found in Yeshua. Shall I repost what I wrote in response to Shiloh or did you see them? I believe we were talking about the Sabbath being one of "rest" and you stated it had to be one of "gathering." I would like to explore that more if you don't mind. OK, I was with you up until the last sentence, which I have bolded: Yet disobedience is still sin, and the wages are still death. Can you expound on this a bit more please?

Shalom Y'all, Shiloh has tried to make this thread about Seventh Day Adventists and accused someone here of being one, when Pilgrim7 states that he is not. No one here is an SDA, so please, let us return to the topic at hand and ignore the attacks and false accusations that are seeking to derail this thread and threaten the grace that we've been discussing this issue with. Thank you all!

Shalom Smalcald, That's not. I highly encourage you to check things out for yourself and not get your information from Shiloh alone for what he posted is misinformation. I won't respond any more to his posts since he refuses to be gracious, but I see that you believe what he wrote without checking it out and I must post the truth, which is NOT what Shiloh posted. First off, I am not an SDA, but Shiloh's posts are incorrect about them. Again, this thread is NOT the place to debate what SDA's are or aren't, but Shiloh has publicly posted false accusations that need to be rectified publicly. Especially concerning the Jesus as G-d accusation and the Trinity, both they DO believe in: Please read their statement: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

Shalom Shiloh, You are incorrect. Not all SDA's acknowledge the teachings of Ellen White, in fact, many have rejected her. What I know of SDA's they are not a cult and are in fact, Believers in Messiah.. However, that is not the topic of this thread and should be explored elsewhere, more appropriate. . I disagree. As i said before G-d is pleased when we surrender to Him and walk in His ways. It is a HEART thing, not a works things. And Jesus calls us to walk out our faith: John 14: 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. John 14: 23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. James 2 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that

Shalom Smalcald, This article may help you with your question: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/...am_hatorah.html Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. - Jesus Introduction In the Hebrew Scriptures, the law of the Lord (torat Adonai) refers to the revelation of God

Shalom, I agree with you and disagree with Shiloh. I do NOT believe that SDAs are a cult. Our works are done out of loving gratitude and it should never be assumed that God is pleased with us because we did this or that. I disagree. G-d is always pleased by our surrender to His will and our obedience to His instructions. That is a topic for another thread. This one should be about the Sabbath. It sounds like a good topic though, I will look for you to start it.

I like to try and understand the reasoning behind this, in view of the fact that the OT penalty for breaking the Sabbath is death. Thanks. Shalom Yaqub, The Mosaic law no longer carries the punishment it once did since we are under Yeshua now. So no, breaking the Sabbath is not a sin, nor is death a penalty for any sin that is forgiven by Yeshua.

Shalom Dennis, If this is true that you are an SDA, I appreciate you being here and so graciously discussing with us. Would you please let us know though if you ARE an SDA? For the record, I don't consider SDA's as a group to be a cult, but there are some theology and doctrine that I disagree with. Again, thank you Dennis for being so gracious when others around you have not. If you are interested, I still would like to dialog with you concerning this issue of Sabbath.

Shalom Smalcald, We have been over this SO many times, yet you still say the same things that are not correct. It has been explained that working on a Saturday is not a SIN. Adultery IS a sin. So, you see, you cannot say that working on a Saturday is not different than adultery, it is simply not true, and certainly not Biblical. Your understanding seems to be limited to Law or not and Sabbath does not fit into the Law box since it PRE-dated the Law and was never rescinded. No, observing the Sabbath is a Biblical conviction borne of a desire for obedience and glory to G-d. It is not a sin to work on Saturday if one must. However, once someone understands how important the Sabbath is, most times they can re-arrange their schedules to get Sabbath off. For those that cannot, or those in public service such as drs, hospitals, police etc.,, they are "doing good" on the Sabbath, which is a good thing. I hope this helps. I realize that you prolly wanted the answer from someone other than me since we've discussed it before, but I'm always ready to share.

What I mean by Sabbath keeping, is keeping it as Jesus taught it, and to me that is by Not working on the Sabbath,because I do need a rest at the end of each busy week,And if I could find a church that went on the Sabbath I would go to worship Him, but I can't, so I read alot of my Bible,I pray alot, I listen to my gospel music. By helping people as Jesus did,I might not be able to heal, like He did on the Sabbath, but I can help them if needed. I don't keep the letter of the law like the Israelites did,I light fires,Jesus doesn't want us to go hungry,or be burdened by the Sabbath.He wants it to be a joy to us. Jesus showed us the meaning of the Sabbath and That was to do good, Not that I don't try to on every other day of the week ,but every other day I'm busy working and cleaning,I don't have time, to think of Jesus all day while I'm busy doing other things.On the Sabbath I think of Jesus ,and what he did for me,and what will please him not because I have too, but because I love to do it. For the same reason I wouldn't go disobey any of the other commandments.When we do something we know is wrong we come under conviction,and repent,at least I do,it's not because I'm afraid I won't go to heaven, but because I feel awful,as we all should. There is no difference in keeping the other nine commandments,don't we obey them because we love the Lord with all our hearts,and that's what he told us to do,or is it because we think by keeping them it will help us get in to heaven? I know for a fact that I am a sinner,and no amount of commandment keeping will save me, but I keep them for the same reason every one else does ,because I love Him,and the only way I will ever make it to heaven is by the blood of Jesus,and the grace of God. Shalom Sister, AWESOME POST!!!!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!

The Fourth Commandment Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture...fourth_cmd.html Shabbat begins at sunset on Friday evening and ends Saturday night when three stars are visible in the sky (25 hours). On Shabbat we remember that God created the world and then rested from His labors. The commandment to observe the Sabbath comes from the Fourth Commandment, of course, which actually spans three pesukim (verses) and is by far the longest of the Ten Commandments. In its entirety the commandment reads: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Ex 20:8-11) The Meaning of Shabbat The word shabbat ("Sabbath") is clearly connected to the verb shavat, meaning "to cease, desist, rest." The root first appears in Genesis 2:2-3 regarding God

Shalom Smalcald, No, this is not the issue. And yes, indeed going to church on Saturdays is a perfectly acceptable way to observe the Sabbath. The real issue is G-d's Word in Genesis 2. This has nothing to do with observing the Sabbath. We are "really doing it" when we do as unto the L-rd. And on this point, another Believer cannot judge. Again, not true. The Sabbath observance is between a person and G-d. The way that WE do it is certainly a Sabbath observance as unto the L-rd and you are not in a position to judge otherwise. You must understand this. To keep repeating that someone who keeps the Sabbath as unto the L-rd, but doesn't meet your understanding of the OT Law is sinning, is quite in error. The Fourth Commandment reads: There needs to be understanding concerning what constitutes "work." It is "common" work, daily work and work that distracts one from fully focusing on the L-rd. Please read this, I posted it before, but it has SO much great information that rebuts the arguments: I'll post it in the next post.

Shalom CW, Back atcha! Apply it to your post here. What happened to " Let it go dude, that's what the Scriptures above say. Show love. Talk about the issues, OK?

Shalom Sister, What an excellent question. Here's my take on it. When we find something that blesses us, enriches our walk with the L-rd, brings us closer to Him, makes the Word come alive, why WOULDN'T we want to share it with our Brothers and Sisters in the L-rd? I want them to experience the wonderful blessings in the L-rd that I have! Because I care about the Body and I want them to experience Yeshua in this special way as well. And yes, it is my heart's desire to tell church people who have been brainwashed by the church saying that the 7th day Sabbath is not important (which we know is a lie) and I desire to offer the truth for people to see and then THEY can take it to the L-rd and decide for themselves. I have a heart to refute the wrong information that the church has been feeding its people for too long and to show them what the Scriptures say, not what a preacher says. Isaiah 58 is such a beautiful verse! Isaiah 58:13-14 If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the LORD has spoken. I do not believe sharing our experiences and beliefs concerning the Sabbath is a stumbling block or what Paul was referring to, HOWEVER, let me say here that according to Romans 14, if someone is OFFENDED by MY observance of the Sabbath as unto the L-rd, I should not do it in front of them, or THAT will be a stumbling block. Does that make sense to you? We must bear with those who disagree and not act in a way that causes them offense, or that will be a stumbling block. Our love is more important.

Shalom!! You are not butting in! All comments are welcome here. And I really like yours!! You are correct, to those who believe it is sin, it is.

Shalom CW, Absolutely not. I challenge you to produce such a post. Let us consider the term you used "loving admonishment" in relation to my posts. There has been no criticism or condescension in my posts at all.

<sigh> Shalom CW, And so much for grace. There is none. That is what is very sad. And grieves the Holy Spirit. And do you think that what MAN does supersedes G-d's Word? Sunday gathering for worship does not negate the 7-th day Sabbath in any way, shape or form. G-d created the Sabbath at CREATION as the 7th day and He never changed it. Men who call Sunday the "Sabbath" are incorrect. The Sabbath Biblically is always the 7th day. However, there is nothing wrong with gathering on Sunday or any other day to worship. Your argument that men meet on Sunday does not change the Biblical truth that Sunday is not the Sabbath, but it's a fine day to worship. If one truly cares for the eternal soul of someone they are talking with, love and grace will be evident, not condescension and criticism.

Shalom Dennis, I agree, one must repent of their sins. I am sorry that I did not make that point clear in my previous post. I have no argument with that. I did say it, but I said it as this: The Scriptures regarding repentance indicate a person's desire to turn from their sin and serve Yeshua to be saved. I believe I said the same thing, but did not use the word "repentance." Do you agree or disagree? I do not believe though that the Scriptures says that baptism is required for salvation and if you do, we may discuss that in a different thread. I don't want to get this thread off the topic of the Sabbath observance. So, let's see where the SABBATH is required for one to be saved if we agree on the other points of salvation requirements.

Shalom Brother Dennis, Thank YOU for your gracious reply and for taking the time to share your position that I might understand where you are coming from. I'm not really sure I understand though because you are using terminology that confuses me. So, please bear with me as I try to break down your reply into smaller chunks that I can understand. If I get it wrong, please correct me!! OK, point one: I'm not sure I get what you're saying here. Let's firstly establish an understanding on what is needed to be saved. What I read in the Scriptures says that to be "saved", that is "born again" is this and it is very simple: Many many others as well that I can provide if you like that support this stand below: So Brother, basically what I see to be saved, to be born again into Yeshua and into His Family and have the Holy Spirit indwell me and to have eternal life in Heaven is that by faith, I acknowledge that Yeshua is fully G-d, and the Son of G-d, and that HE as the Sacrificed Lamb died for MY sins. I acknowledge my sins and my need to be forgiven and I ask Jesus to come into my life, forgive my sins and be my Savior and L-rd, and by His grace, He forgives my sins and makes me a new person, cleansed from all unrighteousness and filled with His Holy Spirit and will live forever with G-d in Heaven. By His grace gives me a gift, all I need do is recognize it and accept it by faith. Are we on the same page concerning how one is to be saved (born again)?

Oh please, call me PreciousRubi. Shalom PR, Precious RABBI????? Oh my, that's too funny!!!!!!!

Shalom Dennis, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but I wish to remind you that the Sabbath was instituted at Creation and was set aside as a day of rest. Now, within that rest we are to focus and worship the L-rd, but it is not a commandment to gather for worship, it is a day to set aside to rest, physically and spiritually from the rest of the week and focus on G-d.

Shalom Y'all and those keeping score at home Well, back to topic, ignoring the unBiblical personal attacks from Shiloh. Pilgrim 7, I appreciate your posts very much. I would like to discuss some points with you. I would like to ask you straight out, do you believe that keeping the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation? And if so, can you show me Scripture for that please? Thank you.

Shalom Shiloh, Dear oh dear. Where is the grace? It is not to be found. Grace should be evident in someone's life who wishes to have people listen to him. No one can hear you since your words are so rude and hostile. The lack of grace is drowning out everything else. Your concerns are the non-issue here brother. The scriptures tells us plainly that the Sabbath is Biblical, whether you agree or not.

Shalom Shiloh, And you need to work on your hostility, rudeness and lack of grace. For no one will hear a thing you say because you cause offense by the way you say it. You can call it "whining" (which is another example of rudeness), I call it living by the Scriptures. Colossians 4: 6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. And no, Sabbath is not an non-issue, you are incorrect. It is an Biblical issue.