turtletwo

Where do you live TT? And what is your name? I still don't know your name yet

A big thanks to ALL of you who took the time to try to reassure me I should stay at Worthy... For each one of you has added your unique caring input to this post of feeling that I don't fit here.

You see, this particular time of year only intensifies my sense of not belonging. It is extremely hard to feel unwanted by your entire family...just because some stupid illness changed me to a shadow of my former self. Apparently, my unsupportive family views me as 'damaged goods' now and has no desire to associate with me ... But I can't comprehend the heartlessness of just 'up and throwing a family member away' simply because they fell victim to something awful... namely, a disease which they can't even control... I guess that my severely deteriorated looks from this and my needing help with so much now is a repulsive combo.

Christmas is by far the hardest holiday of all, because I am unable to even be with anyone who loves me. Unfortunately, I still can remember our ancient get togethers... that were once so special to me, but now bittersweet. They gnaw at me in a brutal way, which mere words can't describe. Other than intense breaking of the heart or perhaps an ongoing churning in the pit of my stomach. The long gone memories of my happy pre-dystonia life haunt me like a distant dream that I honestly wish I could just forget. Because they only bring on confused tears...

And of course, the thought of this possibly being my dad's last Christmas ever, due to the liver cancer and I can't even be with him, seems especially unfair! I hope that this sheds some light on why I feel exceptionally down lately...

I am just weary of this life and long for Heaven. If I have been a blessing to some of you here, then perhaps my life hasn't been entirely in vain????

Thanks for your many kind replies here on the open forum. And being so lonely, I am always touched and glad to welcome any invitations from those who TRULY desire to pm with me. But so many times I would pm at length (with much effort and type one fingered), only to get no pm in return. That would hurts and puzzle me. So if you do offer to be my pm pal, please be sure you really want that... ( Unfortunately- I can't do the chat room, because any scrolling of words bring on eye spasms. )

Thanks again. And as soon as I'm physically and emotionally able, I will be in touch with those of you who say you actually want my pms. God bless, TT (turtletwo)

I have been wondering why I still don't fit in here very well, even after all this time... ( And yes, I have made genuine attempts to write people and reply to posts. So please don't say it's that. Only a couple folks have even noticed.... I praise God for them!) I feel like an outsider. 'Always on the outside, looking in'. Even my topics are unpopular and barely replied to. When I have ventured outside of just the prayer request forum. Ex: prophecy. Which really does interest me. Some said they thought discussing parables was pointless. Though I obviously disagree...especially when they have to do with the end times. ( Others acted like I was a moron for even bringing up the subject of the Ten Virgins parable... Like it is self explanatory. All I am trying to do guys, is become more actively involved in discussions. To be more a part of this ministry...Isn't that commendable? I wish I were healthier, because then I gladly would have participated in the prayer week. But I didn't think my being unavailable on my sickest days would have been fair to the partner I'd be assigned, so I opted out. (How did that prayer week go, by the way? ) Anyway, I hope my usual transparency isn't making anyone angry. But coupled with so many diseases (between mine and my family's), this is another source of depression for me. Rejection. My feelings are fragile and raw, so please do be "gentle as a dove" as Jesus put it. I ask nicely that you don't blow me off or be harsh. Okay? Because I seriously can't handle that treatment right now. I am too much feeling I wish I could just die. And I'm not being a drama queen. I mean that. I am deeply depressed. I don't even have anyone who wants to spend Christmas with me and am feeling sad enough about that. That's why I at least wish I could fit in better at Worthy somehow. I base my question about not fitting in here on the way that many of the folks at Worthy are 'tight with' each other and hit it off so well. They are comrades and true pals...something I long for! But I, on the other hand seem to 'rub people the wrong way' a lot, honestly not meaning to! I am just being myself. Had I come here years back and acted totally different than my true personality...would I have found my niche at Worthy by now?? But then that wouldn't have been real, would it? Not to mention that it is a form of lying and deception. (Shallowness, at best...) The problem with forums is that people can always put on acts and bravados and basically be whoever they want to be. Or who they think others might want them to be...I guess I just don't know how to do that. Nor do I have the energy to, being ill as I am. Besides which, I feel if people don't accept me for who I am...then what's the point? That's not a TRUE friend. Sorry. But the bottom line is that this is the way God made me. ( I wish I could be liked, even though I am more serious minded than most of you are probably used to on forums. Sorry if that makes me a drag to have around. Maybe someone should take a poll here and see how many would prefer me to stop posting at Worthy. A well meaning person said that coming to Fellowship Hall might help. And I really wanted to give it a go... So I went over there to read a little of the interaction. But I just can't get into the giddiness that often is engaged in there. I would be speechless. Because it's simply not who I am...The Scriptures say God made the members of the body of Christ to be different, even as parts of the physical body are. Think about how unique and very different from others some of our physical body parts are... So why can't that be understood in the case of me? So what if I stand out a bit because few here post about struggling with chronic illness and having constant trials? Sure, that's not pleasant. A bummer or downer to read... But I still need to be loved! And all the more, really. The history? I first came to Worthy after battling a sudden and terrible physical disease, all alone...Because I thought it would help me cope to seek out fellow believers. I naively thought they would gladly embrace me, pray with me and offer words of comfort. And some did, thank God! ( But many ignored me, as though I were raining on their parades or something!) Because of the barrage of severe trials befalling my family and I, it is only human to feel depressed. For me to be joking around is a real stretch which I have much trouble doing...especially NOW. In the face of people I love at risk of dying and the doctors having given up on treating my own disease. How do you sincerely 'put on a happy face' when you are in excruciating pain daily? I can't seem to master it. And I have tried last month at Worthy to do this. To get outside my own problems and minister to others hurting here. But few wrote back to even acknowledge it. So I shrugged my shoulders and figured it must not have made a dent. Because when some have ventured out to be compassionate to me, I definitely make it a point (sick as I am) of thanking them either openly or via pm. I realize I tend to post negatively a lot and maybe this has 'turned people off' to pursuing friendships with me... Not just superficial, open forum ones. But deeper, pm ones. I have even noticed some of you here saying to others "call me up." Nobody sure ever cared enough to offer me their number! So obviously those who have exchanged their personal phone numbers here have the magic touch. They have found the secret on how to form friendships. God knows I have been kind and sent encouraging messages both on the open forums and through pms. They say 'to have friends, you need to be one'. I really have tried, whether you believe me or not. Those of you who have been the recepients of my caring messages know I am telling the truth. Why have I stayed this long? Well, I need a safe place to vent, fellowship and am physically unable to attend a local church. My goals in joining back in 2007 were to be ministered to and minister to others by encouraging. To be prayed for and to pray for others. I still have those same goals. But am I even WANTED here? Be honest. I am afraid to leave because of the extreme matters that need prayer...like dad's liver cancer.

I appreciate you sharing with us these thought provoking and touching ideas. I personally think that # 2, #6 and #8 are especially poignant...all excellent ways to honor Christ's Birthday. Back in the olden days, some of these things actually were a regular part of many people's celebrations... For in those times, Christmas was more about showing the less fortunate that they really DO matter...before the 'trappings' and 'glitter' of materialism took center stage. JESUS would shine above Santa! I miss that. I am actually old enough to still remember those good old days... So let's ALL do our best to bring Jesus the gifts HE deserves this year... Afterall, it is HIS birthday...not ours. (There are so many ways to please Him, as is well pointed out in the LETTER FROM JESUS.)

Remember, Christ gave to us the greatest present of all time. To those of us who will reach out to recieve it thankfully...namely, His Sacrifice on the cross and the gift of Eternal Life!

Turtletwo....I wish you could see how much the Lord rejoices over you CONSTANTLY.

He is so pleased and proud of you. YOU are a princess in His eyes! He sees who you are and not what you think you are.

Humans can be disappointed (and disappointing)..... but Him? No way!

Your father in heaven loves it when you call Him...and He never slumbers nor sleeps!

My advice is to forgive those people who are treating you badly with their petty arrogance or their grumpy dispositions. They don't know that you are one His favorites.

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement.

Turtle, I want to share these lyrics with you. I posted these eons ago, I hope the link works for you:

For the hurting

I am particularly thinking of the song "We Will Rise" and a line in there about "our failures". I wish I could get the music for you to go with the lyrics, but the lyrics will have to suffice.

I hope these minister to you.

The link did work and the words were a blessing! Comforting, encouraging lyrics... I could hear the tunes in my head as I read the ones by the Talbots and Al Denson ...So I know I heard them years ago. But somehow the words never hit home in the way they do now. Thanks.

First off, don't be so hard on yourself. As far as I can see you did nothing wrong. You have every right to know if your daughter arrived home safely! And as far as her boyfriend in concerned, it's a very bad situation when a man gets that possessive (when he gets angry when she wants to see her own family) He's just a few steps from not letting her out of the house. It wouldn't hurt to keep a journal of how this guy acts in regard to your daughter. I would go so far as to say, make plans to get her out of his house and to a safe place - just in case. Possessive relationships NEVER last. And they usually end BADLY. Your daughter's safety is your main concern.

Even if you have done no wrong, if your father is offended, you should apologize anyway. Let him know all about your concerns for him, both for this life, and the next. Do not be fearful when presenting the gospel. Keep in mind, you would not hesitate from pulling someone out of the way of a speeding train - and the second death is FAR worse than that! The Lord will give you the right words to say.

ALWAYS keep your family in prayer. Keep them before the throne - storm heaven with your prayers! God can keep Satan at bay easily.

And don't be so fearful. The Bible says there is NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. God knows we are but dust. We make mistakes, and will always make mistakes as long as we are mortal. Paul called himself the "cheif" of all sinners, always doing what he shouldn't do, so you are not alone in your struggles.

Praying for you...

I appreciate all your helpful advice. Starting off by telling me to cut myself some slack (that being concerned my daughter arrived safely in an unsafe vehicle is normal and okay...) That was so important for me to hear, because I do have a problem blaming myself for everything that goes wrong. The precious Scripture verse about there being no condemnation to those in Christ is one I'd forgotten for awhile, until God brought it back to me again just now through your post... God's Word is so comforting! As for my dad, I will definitely apologize and be bold in my sharing of the Gospel with him. You are right about my daughter. Her safety is a huge concern of mine. She did call the police on him once and even moved away from him for awhile. She came back to the area where my family lives. I was elated. And we were finally able to talk freely! (on my dad's phone.) But the house is so full over there she said she felt she needed to get a little apartment of her own. So she did for awhile. But she became so depressed and lonely. Sadly, she went back to her boyfriend. I don't know what kind of powers he holds over her! He must be a smooth talker with her and deceptive, but I see him as a wolf seeking prey to devour. Thanks for your prayers.

Turtle

Lord Jesus, I ask for Turtle to feel Your presence surrounding her, leading her, and guiding her. Grant her a new vision, a new revelation of Your love for her. Break through the clouds and strongholds of fear, confusion, doubt, self-hatred, despair, and depression. Bring her into a newness of Your life. Bring healing to her faith, that she may know in her heart as well as her head that her hope is You.

Thank-You Jesus for hearing this prayer

Amen. Thank you for this prayer, nebula... I really needed that. And I prayed it along with you, as tears streamed down my face. You listed strongholds I do battle against frequently. I know this is a spiritual warfare. Because Jesus wants my family to be His, (which naturally means that Satan is doing all he can to see that this does not happen.) What saddens me the most is that some progress was finally happening both in their lives and mine...Like the blessing of the phone conversation my daughter and I had when she called me from my dad's house. It was so exciting that God was opening up doors for me to talk with my family about Him. And He was dealing with all of us...drawing us closer to Himself both spiritually and through circumstances. So God has been faithful. Praise His Name! But Satan has vigorously counter-attacked these victories...if that makes any sense.

I am notorious for making wrong decisions! I blunder a LOT... I would even go so far as to say it's more often I do mess up than I don't. I'm under guilt and fear much of the time, due to this. ( Satan sure knows our vulnerabilities. And plays on them, every chance he gets. ) Friday, I made a call to my dad to see if he was feeling better and keeping any food down. That in itself was stupid, because I, of all people should know that when ill...sleep is a must. Anyway, I apologized for waking him. Then, I asked if my daughter had called there at all to say she had got back home (quite a distance ...to her town, safely.) You see, her car was acting up real bad and I was concerned she may have broken down or got stranded somewhere. ( She had spent Thanksgiving with the family, stayed overnight there and was heading back sometime Friday.) My dad said no, seeming slightly perturbed. Maybe still disoriented from his disturbed sleep or from his dementia... I would have called her myself, but her boyfriend - who has serious mental issues and was furious that she'd spent Thanksgiving with her family ( he wants her all to himself! ) had sent me a very nasty email. The final words being, "Never call my house again!" He pays the phonebill, as she has no income of her own to have a separate phone... So I was cruelly forbidden to have any contact via phone with my own daughter! Just because he has issues of both paranoia and possessiveness! So next I did something even WORSE... I asked dad to talk to my brother's girlfriend. I told her I was wondering if my daughter had maybe called her ( to let her know she'd arrived home okay.) This led to my explaining I'd been banned from calling her up anymore ... To which she said she "wanted to give him a piece of her mind." But I begged her not to... Because I wanted NOT to cause any stress for my very ill DAD (who lives with my brother's girlfriend and brother) nor any problems for my DAUGHTER. So then she promised she would just nicely ask to speak with my daughter, saying we were both concerned if she'd arrived home okay. And that I'd been harshly informed by the boyfriend that I could no longer call her there, so wondered if there was any other way of reaching her. Well, my dad must have caught on ( and viewed me as troublemaking. ) Because at the end of the talk between me and my brother's girlfriend, she asked dad if he wanted to talk to me. I heard an angry "NO" from him in the background! Dad is very protective of my adult brother, still looking upon him as a child...( and not wanting this to cause friction between my brother and his girlfriend. No quarrels.) Yep, it sounds like a soap opera I know. But the saddest parts are that my daughter and i had a nice, long conversation on the phone on Thanksgiving. I felt closer to her than I have in ages. And now this will probably cause her to be mad at me! ( I'm sure it likely led to a big fight between my daughter and her boyfriend, once she realized he said I was not to call there ever.) And I certainly don't want to upset my dad, who has heart troubles and now liver cancer. Knowing that dad's time left on this earth may be short, I've been extra loving to him via phone. And planning to mail him letter soon to express how much he means to me, along with a Gospel presentation. So of course Satan doesn't want this and won't just stand by idly...assigning demons to cause a rift between me and dad. As well as another between me and my daughter. What do I do now?? What started out as me just concerned that she was safe due to a dangerous car ended in all this turmoil. But God is bigger and I must believe He will somehow work this all out! Please pray with me on this? Also, how do I forgive myself? I have a harder time forgiving me than even my enemies. I am so tired of botching things and making wrong decisions! Even when I mean well... Sigh. Sometimes it really seems like I do more harm than good in this life. If any of you have this same struggle, how do you handle it? Any advice would sure be appreciated. God bless all you who were patient and waded through this long post... ( I stink at keeping things condensed.)

God is truly great and He is so amazing in ALL He does.

Well said! It's like that classic Christian song,"Our God is an Awesome God."

How true, AnotherTraveler! I will definitely be praying for Netanyahu ( who I always found sincere, likable, respectable and believable) as well as for the peace of Jerusalem, of course.

my sister's sister in law Dee had two liver transplants a few years ago. she was young and healthy and it was touch and go for quite a while for her but she is doing okay now. i do not know if this is a possibibilty for your dad or not but you can check on it.

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

Dear Rebekah, Thanks for the suggestion. I am happy that the transplants worked out for Dee. Praise God that she is doing fine! My two concerns for my dad, though are: that he is so elderly and he has a fragile heart (due to multiple bypasses over the years. So the doctors saw this as a big risk and were opposed to cutting him open for his other cancer...the lung one. ) But transplants are something worth considering, if need be. Hopefully, he can be re-evaluated for a second opinion soon! Right now I guess that the biggest determining factor is if the cancer spread into the bloodstream or remained contained within the liver. Once in the blood, it is really serious because the cells multiple rapidly and affect other organs! ( Especially if it really turns out to be phase 4, which is one of the worst...) Keep praying, everyone. God bless.

Israel needs to make their own decision about their future. Washington has been dictating to them for decades, mostly because of the oil producing countries, and they need to back off.

I agree totally with Morning Glory. I personally wish everyone would give Israel a breather and stop ganging up on her. Netanyahu is possibly afraid right about now, because Israel desperately needs allies to offset all the nations bent on destroying her. The United States used to be her friend (or at least did a good job of pretending so for years...) And I believe that is one of the main reasons God blessed America and is starting to pull back His Hand of blessing now! That, and our current rebellion towards God by few truly seeking His Face intently, the ongoing slaughter of unborn babies, many embracing so called 'alternate lifestyles' and the churches themselves even letting elements of the New Age Movement creep in. I have watched Netanyahu a bit and was convinced he was 'one of the good guys', deeply loving the land and diligently fighting for it to remain Israel's God-given birthright... But now, if he starts to buckle like this...what shall become of Israel? ...Is all this prophecy coming to pass? I wonder. Is this eventually the lead-in to the signing of that Scripturally warned peace treaty with Antichrist and the 7 year Tribulation? (The time of Jacob's Trouble? ) Thanks for sharing this important information with us, HIS girl.

I praise God for every breath! It is truly a miracle my dad is still alive, after all that he has gone through physically throughout the years. God has been so Merciful and it is this that I cling to at this critical time when my dad's life is hanging in the balance... For I believe one of God's reasons for prolonging his life has been so he will give himself to Jesus (and go off into eternity as a Christian.) The Lord is so GOOD. To God be the glory!

Hi. Does anybody out there know about liver cancer? My dad was just diagnosed with it at one medical facility and he is going to another one for a second opinion. And a biopsy. If you or a loved one has been through this cancer, I'd sure appreciate hearing your personal experiences. Also, anyone who works in the medical field and has knowledge that way. Links to good medical sites are always welcome too...Thanks.

Praise God! How exciting for these brothers and sisters finally going to their home where they belong! How true, mg and elizabetht...no tribe is lost to the Almighty One who chose Israel as his beloved. In the Lord's perfect timing all His prophecies shall be fulfilled. It is Israel that is always in the center of His plan, for one day Yeshua shall rule from the throne in Jerusalem. How awesome! Maranatha...Come quickly Lord Jesus. It is Israel that is the apple of the Lord's eye...and it is good for us to remember her in prayer.

Thanks mg. You pose a very good question. My guess is that people refuse to believe in Hell being a real place because it gives them this false sense of ease that they can live however sinfully and selfishly they choose! Deluding themselves that there will be no future consequences to face...Other people who might actually believe in Hell somewhere deep down inside are blocking the thought out of their mind... ( for the same reasons. Worldliness, vanity, etc.) But Scripture warns that, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of a living God." I would add my comment that it is also a glorious thing to fall into the Hands of the Loving God, who loved us enough to die for OUR sins. There are nailprints for these unsaved people in those precious Hands of Jesus! I have no idea why this does not move them. I can only suppose that those so hardened to His act of supreme Love don't want to think they will one day give an account for the way they rejected Jesus ( and basically were their OWN god! )...I also think that they love this present life too much to even stop and think about the afterlife. For example: the younger generation. They often feel they are indestructible and invincible. Want to 'whoop it up' and 'have fun while they can.' Some have expressed how they will repent 'someday,' while on their deathbeds... But statistically I wonder just how many folks are fortunate enough to ever get that chance? Death is not JUST for the elderly. There are always drunken driving accidents and overdoses of 'recreational' illegal drugs that can cause premature death to the young. MorningGlory, I definitely empathize with you about the stubborn unsaved ones! I share your frustration in witnessing to those who will not budge spiritually, (sometimes for years! Even though we keep right on praying for their hearts of ice to melt.) As for your sadness in your comment about how maybe some really CAN'T get Saved, I have had that same thought... Including pertaining to my own family, who keeps running and 'putting Jesus off'. So I can only cling to the Scripture verse in 2 Peter 3:9 about how "God is not willing that ANY should persh, but that ALL should come to repentance." To me, that means everybody He created. I call that my verse of hope So I hope it helps everyone who struggles ( like I myself do, at times ) with wondering if some folks truely just CAN'T accept God...

The Bible warns of a One World Church that will exist during the Tribulation. A popular teaching already is spreading like wildfire that 'all roads lead to God.' This is, and will be embraced by many people. But it is a trick of the enemy of our souls! Because Jesus Christ emphatically said regarding Himself, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life... No man comes unto God the Father except through ME." He is the Door we must enter in, in order to be Saved and enter Heaven. I think there is a mass deception by Satan going on right now, in preparation for the eventual One World Church, that will rule the world. I've noticed how compromising ones once-held firm beliefs in ALL OF the Bible today is popular. Because standing by those 'old fashioned' ways...such as proclaiming the entire Gospel boldly and calling sins sin are often termed as unloving and arguementative. The devil is shrewd and knows it is easier to just tone things down in the name of peace. But it is ultimately false 'peace' that will usher in the Anti-Christ! The lifestyle of holiness God clearly instructs us to pursue in His Bible will be forgotten in the name of unity...And I believe that the only way that this can be accomplished is by watering down the Word of God. In other words: to avoid preaching on anything offensive, to twist the verses to your own meaning, use only the pleasant passages that would be in the ear tickling style or sometimes avoid using the Scriptures altogether!... Reading out of books men authored rather than the Bible, which God authored. It is sad, but true. But I deefinitely see it as a sign of the times. As the soon return of Jesus. We were warned in Scripture to be ready at all times...to stay right with God. There is the verse that says, "When these things begin to happen, LOOK UP...for your redemption draws near." We are told to take comfort in this and it is called our 'blessed hope'. I know that on the one hand, it is definitely troubling and unsettling to see people turning away from the truths they once knew...I do feel the same way about that. It is somewhat scary and truely sad. That is why we are told by God in Scripture to "Hold fast to that which you first believed." and assured by the Lord that, "He is able to keep you from falling." I hope these verses are of some help.

Does any body knows where hell is ?

Just start in the state SEPARATED FROM GOD, take the exit to NEVER RECEIVED CHRIST AS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOR, this should lead you to a sign with DEAD-END (arrows pointing left or right) turn either way, it will still bring you into the town of EVERLASTING..you will know you are at the right place, cause all the streets start with EVERLASTING...FIRE, PUNISHMENT, OUTER DARKNESS, DESTRUCTION, etc...jotful

I agree with jotful's vivid description. It is very biblical. There are plenty of verses that make it clear that Hell is real, everlasting punishment. Jesus must have found this a very serious topic. Because He spoke about it more than even about Heaven. To me, this says He does NOT want anyone to go to this horrid place. But sadly, they can (and they will) if they so choose... by spurning God's amazing Grace. He offers the free gift of Salvation to anyone who asks in faith and recieves it, repenting of their sinful ways. Surrendering their heart to Him and wanting to live the rest of their life for Him.) To me, that is a given. Not only would I serve Him to escape Hell, but I delight in the thought of worshipping forever such a loving Savior who died for me and rose triumphantly up in Heaven.... And up there in Heaven, there will be no limitations. No distractions, no time restraints, no quarreling, no sin, no devil, no sorrow and no sickness. We will no longer have ANYTHING that can come between us and our blessed Lord! So as wonderful as praising Him here on earth is, just imagine the sheer bliss of the highest form of worship... in eternity!

Such a stark contrast to the futures of those who go to Hell.

Makes sense. This example brings we humans, the Lord, plus Satan all together in one event! That is one that would never have occured to me until you pointed it out... So EricH, I appreciate you bringing it to our attention. How I praise God for the enlightenment that He brings through His "Holy Spirit, who leads us into all truth"! These next remarks are just thoughts that popped into my head and could be offbase. So if I am, I apologize in advance. Because I sure don't want to offend or mislead anyone. But I'm curious if these ideas make sense, in light of all this. And I am putting them out there, just in case they are of any help. And if not, please disregard them. Either way, opinions on them would be welcome...First, the Old Testament. I wonder if Pharoah and his heart hardening would fit in here at all. For there are some verses that specifically say God hardened his heart. Yet there are others that seem to imply that he was a hard hearted man, anyway. Even after the horrid plagues and finally the death of his own son, Pharoah chased down the children of Israel...obviously never having learned his lesson about the power of the one and only true God. This proves he had a wicked heart of ongoing rebellion, yet God used just that to deliver Israel from the Egyptions! Since God is timeless and knows all things, he knew this Pharoah was one to play a role in this monumental deliverence. So did God make him do it or would he have anyhow, being a prime candidate and so abusive by nature? Could it not be both things working together at play here?... And in the New Testament, there was the need of someone to betray Jesus ... in order for Him to die upon the cross (and rise again) on behalf of our sins. God could see into the future and into the heart of this greedy man Judas, who pretended to love the Lord but then sold him out for mere silver! So did God cause Judas to do this act? Or was Judas just the type of man suited for the job, anyway? The two can be compatible and make sense, in my opinion. Well, that is my humble opinion anyway... My examples are not as good as EricH, but if anyone has thoughts on these two persons (Pharoah and Judas), I'd like to hear your input on it. Feel free to correct me, if I need it... God has been showing me that we Christians must all be open to 'constructive criticism' ... as we call it. ( The equivalent of the biblical "speaking the truth in love.")

Thank you so much for clarifying this, EricH. I never heard the term duality reductionalism (before you mentioned it) ... But your explaination made sense and gave me some peace of mind. This is a doctrinal difference which I have struggled with in much confusion (and at times anguish, thinking that perhaps I was one created to never go to Heaven. That God did not want me. I based that on Him not healing me of my neurological disease, silly as that sounds perhaps. Because my denomination I grew up in was very anti-sickness. And the most radical offshoots of it make out that it is actually a sin to be sick! I'm sure you are aware of that Scripture which says God "does not hear the prayers of the wicked." So I figured that must be the reason for my disease never going away. God still viewed me as the wicked (because maybe He had never actually imputed Christ's Righteousness to me.) Or maybe somehow my sincere prayer to get Saved in my youth was still missing something important and had never produced real Conversion in me. Or my various times of backsliding had caused me to lose that Salvation I originally had as a girl. I even considered at times that I must have commited the unpardonable sin. Hope against hope, though ..I kept re-praying,"Lord- I do repent of ANYTHING that might be blocking me being genuinely Yours." I just wanted to make sure! Still, this verse about Him deafening His hearing of the prayers of the wicked haunted me and I kept assuming this was the reason I couldn't get healed either supernaturally or even led by God to decent medical care...It was a vicious cycle. The more I cried out to the Lord in prayer for my healing and the longer I remained so utterly ill, the more I questioned if I was not truely Saved or in fact one of the wicked or lost...And started to seriously wonder if I was doomed to spend eternity without Christ! That made me shudder and tremble. Such a horrible thought! It is bad enough to suffer terribly in this earthly life... With disease, serious family problems, etc. But it was absolutely overwhelming to think of me suffering true Hell (the place those not in Christ will go)...forever!) I was personally raised up in a church that taught only free will. So I never even knew that Calvinism existed. This (what my church taught...which was a form of Arminianism) was a more comforting position to me, in the way that everyone could know they were Saved because they had chosen to follow Christ. And I just knew deep down in my heart that even though I sometimes struggled with God's sovereign choices ( an example being His allowing intense sufferings )... there would never come a time I would not want Jesus. I gave my life to him when I was young. He (and wanting to serve Him ) are all I have ever known! I feel like Peter when the Lord asked the disciples,"Will you walk away from me too?" and Peter replied, "Lord to whom else would we go? For You alone hold the words of truth." But back to what EricH said...As far as pure Arminianism, I don't totally agree with it. Even though I had more peace with free will (until about a year ago, when I discovered Calvinism and started learning up on it. I rented a lengthy dvd on the subject, which in some ways gave me a headache as it seemed to make the sweet simplicity of the John 3:16 Gospel too complex... But it did produce nagging doubts about my own soul's destiny, which I did try over and over to resolve. Finally today I think I get it, praise God! Salvation is Grace, which I did nothing to earn. Even repentance is not a work. It is my response to God's gracious invitation... I would compare it to a man asking a woman he loves to marry him. She will either turn him down or she'll gladly recieve that love being extended to her. It is simply a response. Not a work. For God wants those who choose to love Him...not robots who HAD to say so no to Him, because God foreordained it. The Bible says He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. So we are ALL wanted. Praise God! I confess it frightened & deeply saddened me to think about an all loving God predestinying some to Heaven, others to Hell. Naturally- I didn't want my family, myself, etc to be in that unfortunate last group! That's why I got so angry with God for awhile. I thought,"Great! Not only does He want me to be in pain on this earth, but forever and ever...in pain FAR worse. " But now I see it was Satan trying to mentally and spiritually torment me with such dark thoughts. So if anybody would ask if I was an Arminian or a Calvanist, I would have to say neither...I am somewhere in the middle. Or better yet, a fusion of the biblical truths of both. If I am understanding EricH correctly, he is saying some spiritual matters are too deep to understand fully. They are God's mysteries and we can not wrap our puny human minds around them, to make them more logical to us. We must just accept them by faith. For after all, the verse that says we are Saved by Grace also says through faith. And the Scripture says that we are to come to Him like little children, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven. There are certain doctrines we simply find mind boggling. Like the Trinity. Yet we accept it by faith, because Scripture states it as a fact. Perhaps some things just aren't meant to be comprehended. After all, we are just creations whileHe is God. His mental capacities outweigh ours by a lot! "His ways are higher than ours." as Scripture declares. Sorry for such a long post, but had to share my relief and joy on God's helping me to see the light, through this thread. Plus, I hoped that my own struggles through the journey of spiritual struggle with this doctrine might help someone else.

This story about the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) returning and the virgins with their lamps has been interpreted in several different ways. Some believe that the ones who were left behind were never really Saved in the first place. ( But to that interpretation, others have said if the oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, how could that be? Because if they had the oil, then that means they would have had God's Spirit...making them true Christians. Not just the 'in-name-only, religious type'. ) To which others have argued that: No, they were once Christians, but what happened is that over time they stopped looking for Him... Meaning they put the Lord Jesus out of their lives as being no longer important in their priorities ( not # 1) and that is why their oil supply was dwindling. In other words, they gave up on Jesus's return by backsliding... became lukewarm and were in essence "spit out of His mouth." ( As is mentioned in Revelation. That verse appears to mean being rejected by Him ETERNALLY) and also "Depart from Me, for I never even knew you! "... that verse where Jesus sends some professing Christianity (perhaps never really Saved, though others would argue the opposite) into Hell...

Other interpretations out there are that the foolish virgins are still eternally Saved, but they are kept from participating in the joy of the wedding feast Jesus gives for His followers. Others say a 'mid-tribulation situation' happens, where the foolish virgins suffer the first half of that awful 7 year period. While the wise virgins are blessed to partake of the wedding feast during that time. ( Having already been raptured up into Heaven, pre-tribulation.)

So I am asking what is your interpretation of the meaning of the virgins / lamps story? I think this is something important we should ponder, because first of all everything thats in God's Word matters or He wouldn't have place it there... Secondly, I personally believe the return of Yeshua is close at hand, so therefore Jesus wants us to understand. I know I desire to. What troubles me somewhat is that the virgins were supposed to go 'get enough oil' for the wicks on their lamps to be trimmed, yet failed to do so. But if the oil is the Holy Spirit, how is Jesus meaning for us to go get more of Him? Because I know He enters all Christians when they become Born again. Any thoughts on how we get more oil? And if this story has anything to do with Salvation. What IS the actual meaning? Thanks for any and all input on this...

My prayers are with you. And I thank you for posting the words of this hymn as an encouragement to us all. That was very thoughtful and I'm sure it brought God honor. As well as it helping to uplift others here who are going through the storms of trials too. God bless you.

Hallelujah! Glory to God! Yesterday I got a phonecall from guess who? My dad! For those just reading this now, unaware of what originally happened... months ago I lost all contact with him! And the kind folks here at Worthy were worried about him, right along with me. (Some were even suggesting I have the police check in on him, because he is so elderly and frail. To see if he was okay. It was a scary time, for sure...) My concerns over no communication from him for so long a time were relieved somewhat, when I finally learned his phone was disconnected over a huge bill. Although I was truely grateful to God that he was safe, that bill situation was not something I wanted to hear... Because how could he ever get a phone again on such a small income, I wondered. But you guys came through and prayed... and God answered those prayers! Even though dad had been without a phone number for months and things looked so bleak that he would ever get service again. Our heavenly Father lovingly made a way of provision! "With God all things are possible", as His Word proclaims! I was very happy to hear my dad's voice. I missed him so much! (We used to talk at least 2 or 3 times a week. So life definitely wasn't the same when that came to a screeching halt... I was real sad over it. But finally I had to come to a place of just letting it go and putting it into God's Hands.) So God has blessed me with a way to keep my relationship with dad going and keep tabs on his serious health issues, too. Our precious Lord is surely full of sweet surprises! Had to share this good news with ya! Especially all those of you who were remembering dad in prayer.

By the way, I just found out my dad's dr who did the treatments on his lung cancer said she was concerned about some problem with his liver. I don't get the connection there. , but dad just told me she wanted to check this out some time. So please keep this latest matter in your prayers, okay?

I am grateful for Jesus, For without Him, this life would be such emptiness and there would be no eternal life, either. "No greater love has a man but to lay down his life for his friends", as Jesus Himself put it in the Scripture. His precious Blood covers a multitude of sin and His Resurrection conquered sin, giving us all a chance at new life in Him. How awesome that He is willing to make us new creations and send His Holy Spirit to dwell within us! Words are not enough to express the beauty and wonder of it all...And alll He asks of us is our hearts and lives. That is a small price to pay to show our appreciation. Just to confess we are sinners, whose only hope is what He did on the cross in our place. And ask Him to be our personal Lord and Savior, telling Him that we repent and want to serve Him the rest of our days. Yes, it is very hard to be a Christian in some ways...but well worth it. And consider the alternative. An eternity in Hell and mere existance here. So I am thankful for Jesus...for Who He is, all He's done and that He is coming back for His own... so that they can worship Him forever!