RedNick261

Where does that belief come from?

That wasn't the question, though. It's not about social and economic responsibilities, it's about insurance and such things. You don't have a responsibility to insure yourself (except auto insurance in most US states and, I'm sure, elsewhere; or, in MA, health insurance). If you trust so much in God's sovereign plan and it's so specific (i.e. God exercises sovereign control over every aspect of life), what need is there for insurance? It the same thing as claiming that the rapture will happen before you die, but still purchasing a life insurance policy. It's asinine, at best.

The only ones who are forced to rationalize are the ones who make claims about God that even He doesn't make.

Ok . I think we're agreeing here . Aaah, classic Arminianism. I guess the question I would have to ask for clarity is this: how specific do you believe God's will is for your life? And, how much control does He, in fact, exercise over it?

FloatingAxe (and josh-13, if you are saying what it seemed that you were): If God has given us specific directions and wisdom through the Proverbs, the Gospels, Paul and the other epistles... why do we need to create it in places where it is not intended? Once again, it is not a safe decision to base doctrine (such as that "God has a wonderful plan for your life!" on out-of-context verses).

The verse doesn't say that the Word can somehow say something that it doesn't say, though. The original intention is still the intention, even 2,000, 3,500 or 5,000 years after it was written. Just because it is alive and active doesn't mean that it is maleable. You're right. I consider prayer a part of worship, some do not. I apologize for any confusion my statement may have caused. I do understand what you're talking about. You're saying that Jeremiah 29:11 (among other verses) can be pulled from their context to mean something "special" to you today. Basically, what you're saying is that God's Word is somehow able to be applied to one's own life in a way other than that it was originally intended. This is a false assertion and you WOULD be adding or changing God's Word, which is exactly what Revelation 22:18 speaks of. I have no qualms with what you've said above, however what you and the website are asserting is different in context. What makes you think (given a Biblical basis or otherwise) that God's word somehow changes to suit an individual person? I wouldn't argue if it were some command to love or something like that, but on a matter of doctrine, it is unsafe to form it based on a maleated misinterpretation of a verse out of context.

Have you read the site you linked? The instances and usage of "rhema" in the Greek text is not speaking of some special revelation given to somehow alter (or specify in a different context) Scripture, it's simply talking about God's spoken word. I should correct myself and say that the context in which you use "rhema" is extra-biblical. No it's not. Prove it. On point one, you're right. On point two, you're right. On point three, you're right, but not in the context that you use it. On point four, you're absolutely wrong. No, He meets us where we are through study and worship. He speaks to each one of us likewise. Taking Scripture out of context and trying to apply it somehow is dishonest and, honestly, dangerous, especially when one's entire theology is based upon it. Where? So, tell me. Does Revelation 22:18 mean anything to you?

Have you read the site you linked? The instances and usage of "rhema" in the Greek text is not speaking of some special revelation given to somehow alter (or specify in a different context) Scripture, it's simply talking about God's spoken word. I should correct myself and say that the context in which you use "rhema" is extra-biblical.

So you're saying that Scripture can say to one person what it doesn't, in fact, say? I don't intend to be hypercritical, as you say. I intend to correct error. Given your interpretation (which, unfortunately, is a widespread interpretation of this verse) of Jeremiah 29:11, I feel the need (led, if you will) to correct this flawed interpretation. What is God actually saying in Jeremiah 29:11? Let's look at the 5 w's and the h: Who: From God, through Jeremiah, to Israel What: A communication of God's desire for the nation of Israel through their time of turmoil in captivity When: In the midst of the Babylonian exile and occupation of Israel and Judah Where: From Jerusalem, to the exiled in Babylon Why: As a prophecy, communication of a conditional promise and the consequences of disobedience; the communication is that God's desire for Israel is for them to be well (the Aramaic word translates more closely to welfare than prosperity) not be harmed or damaged How: Through special revelation to Jeremiah, a prophet, by letter So, what is actually being said here? Is God saying, "hey, [insert name here], I have specific plans for you individually and they are specific and all-encompassing?" Not at all! In fact, what God is saying is that His desire is that Israel not suffer the exact fate in which they were living at the time of the communication! To take it another way is dishonest to what God is saying and dishonest to the interpretation of Scripture. Rhenma is an extrabiblical concept. Further, we call it "eisegesis", defined as: (quoted from the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, courtesy of dictionary.com)

If you're intellectually honest, you will see that this promise is not to the audience to whom you purport nor does it speak of what you purport. It has nothing to do with whether or not you know Jesus Christ (as I do), it has to do with whether or not you believe Scripture can tell one person something that it doesn't say. In the theological community, we call that "eisegesis". In regular life, we call it intellectual dishonesty. And how do you justify this statement? As is respect and courtesy. Threatening hell on someone is hardly a way to witness to them. If you think it is, you should really reevaluate the ministry of Christ, that of Paul and the other apostles, etc......... Scare tactics as ministry only gives the gospel a bad name, which is does not deserve. Perhaps it's just some of its followers who merit such a reputation. Ironic, because you have done so in this thread, evidenced by this discussion and the verse's context. And, as such, it is used out of context in such a use. Once again, any proof or evidence? This is an interesting way of saying that you don't want to evaluate and examine your faith in light of the rest of Creation. You really enjoy throwing out cunning (yet baseless) remarks, don't you? What evidence do you have for this? Further, on the topic of heart vs. mind, what was it that God hardened on Pharoah? Or, what was it that He says He will harden of His enemies? Those who He rejects? Oh, right... This is a first: a Calvinist atheist. I kid, I kid.

If you get a chance, there are two books that I would recommend reading: 1) "Decision Making and the Will of God: A Biblical Alternative to the Traditional View" by Dr. Garry Friesen 2) "Questions to All Your Answers: The journey from folk religion to examined faith" by Dr. Roger E. Olson (for the chapter entitled, "God has a wonderful plan for your life!") I have spent a good deal of time debating with myself whether or not God has planned out every detail of our lives. Wouldn't it make sense that God, in His infinite wisdom and power, would dictate how life would be lived and to organize every detail of it? At first, I thought, yes! It would! And then came the problem: reconciling God's revealed character with the character implicit of such a view. First things first, it is important to establish that there is no definitive Scripture that would claim without question that any side of this debate is correct. Then, you must examine God's nature. He is perfect, just, holy, merciful, gracious, loving, powerful, knowledgeable. What do each of these mean for God's character? Well, His perfection is obvious - He is without fault or flaw. His justice is exactly that, the reason that sin leads to death. His holiness means that he is worthy of worship or veneration (justified by His perfection and power). His mercy and grace are illustrated many times in the old testament, culminated with the Cross and salvation. His love is demonstrated through all of this, by His personal involvement in it. His power is demonstrated through Creation and every subsequent event in the history of time. His knowledge is demonstrated in the fact that He knows the number of the hair on our head and what we will pray before we speak it. How, then, do these reconcile with these ideas with a "perfect plan" for our lives?

LOL I wouldn't call myself an "opponent" of the Harry Potter books, but I do believe that people become far too involved with/obsessed with the books. And no, I haven't read the books, but that's because they're 800+ pages AND fiction.

You guys are starting to get into the Calvinism/Arminianism/Open Theism/Fate topic. Probably wise to do that in another forum. Trust me, if you do, I'll join in the conversation.

LOL I think this is one thing that yzf-r1 and I will agree on without exception .